He violated his bail conditions last year when he went on the
run with his wife and children, fleeing Britain with a fake passport. He
was arrested in February in Jerusalem after the British police issued
an international warrant for his arrest.
Grynhaus hired two Israeli legal teams to fight his deportation
by trying to gain Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return, or
otherwise seeking to settle in countries that don't have extradition
agreements with the UK.
Israeli law only allows formal extradition of foreign criminals,
a process that could take up to two years and risk the possibility that
Grynhaus could be released from prison during the proceedings.
Grynhaus's lawyers tried to force Britain to use complicated
extradition powers rather than allow Israel to deport him back to
England, to draw out the proceedings against him.
But District Court Judge Dana Marshak-Marom ruled that
Grynhaus's "failed efforts" to avoid being returned to the United
Kingdom strengthens Israel's legal authority to deport him and other
suspected foreign criminals.
[...]
If his wife went on the run with him, she is as bad as he is. Their children should have been put into care!!
ReplyDeleteIf the crimes were comitted in Britain, he should be tried in Britain. What excuse can be put forward by lawyers?
ReplyDeleteThe man forged passports to leave
England. That in itself is a crime!.
Does he not believe England will give
him a fair trial?
Why did lawyers in Israel try to find him a safe haven?
A study should be done to determine if Chareidim have a bigger problem with pedophilia than the general population. If yes, perhaps we should reconsider the strict segregation of sexes we have now and go back to the more relaxed environment of the 1950s and earlier in the US.
ReplyDeleteSince some child molesting and homosexual acts take place in Mikvaos, I wonder if male Mikvaos are really a place of tahara or tumah and are better off being closed down. I personally don't let my children go to the mikva except erev yom kippur and I hesitate even about that.
Some mikvaos don't allow children to attend at all, except with their father.
DeleteProbably to keep them from using the mikva as a swimming pool or drowning rather than protecting them from molestation.
DeleteNochum Rosenberg indicates that Mikvaos are a primary source for abuse of young children. He has an interesting story of a mikva that he forced the Rabbonim of Yerushalaim to close down due to this problem.
DeleteYoung children should never be allowed to go to a mikva without proper supervision by their own parents or some other reliable adult.
You say that study should be done...If yes.....
DeleteYou have not yet done this study, so why are you 'reconsidering' etc.? And what exactly would you like to be Matir? If there is anything that is subject to consideration Al Pi Halacha, then that should be done regardless of your study, and if not then your suggestion is nothing short of an exercise to fight against the rules of The Torah.
As far as Mikvaos, how could you suggest closing them down, when they are necessary for Tevilos which are required by many Poskim for Tevilas Ezra, and For Erev Shabbos and Shabbos(The Shaloh Hakodosh requires these Tevilos as well as many other Poskim) and L'taher Atzmo B'regel. When you suggest such things, you are heading in the wrong direction and following Hashkofos which are taking you astray. The correct suggestion is that things need serious modification as far as how the Mikvaos are being used and abused. Strict guidelines need to be enforced to prevent all that needs to be prevented. And this is nothing new. In certain Chassidishe Kehilos, Bachurim are not allowed to use the Mikva during weekdays, in order to prevent lax behavior which Bachurim might feel can be corrected by a dip. This is very old, and now, in these difficult times, more such sanctions are needed and by all Kehillos.
"perhaps we should reconsider the strict segregation of sexes we have now and go back to the more relaxed environment of the 1950s and earlier in the US"
DeleteWhen this came to my thoughts a few years ago I felt like I was a Rosho to think that way, at this point in time I am convinced that excessive segregation is bad.
However, I think that we should respect those that promoted it because this was at difficult times and who could have predicted the situation that we find ourselves today.
Another point is the type of crowd that accepted these strict segregation, initially, it may have been designed for genuine learners but when everyone became a so called learner then you get this kind of funny behavior.
katche-lab
DeleteUse common sense. When a teenager is not permitted to talk to a female, and today not even allowed to see her name in print, and then plunked down among many naked males, what do you expect his reaction to be? Tevilas Ezra and mikva erev shabbos are all chumros and have no place when they are the cause of severe issurim.
My casual observation is that there are too many news reports of chasidish men being caught with prostitutes. There are too many reports of foreign women being propositioned by Chareidim in Israel. I don't see that happen in the professional offices where I work. It comes from this unhealthy segregation of sexes, where boys can't even say gut shabbos to girls. That's not the way Litvishe Yeshiva bachurim once acted.
See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_sexual_behavior
DeleteThe discussion of the separation of the sexes needs to be determined on the basis of Halacha and no other basis, as I already explained.
DeleteAs far as Mikvaos, I already said that precautions and rules and restrictions must be implemented, but you are saying that we should close down the Mikvaos. So let me ask you something. Do you know how many robberies and even murders happen because of jewelry? I think all jewelry shops should be closed down because they are a cause of a lot of crime. Or better yet, cars, which are the cause of countless injuries and fatalities all of the time should be outlawed. But no. We don't make such a suggestion because we understand the importance of these things. So instead we make many rules and regulations to prevent trouble to the best level possible, and we try to make it work. But when it comes to something which has no value we don't say that, but instead we just suggest to do away with the thing entirely. So in the opinions of some people the things which are used Leshem Mitzva are the first things to go because they don't see any value in these things. This is why I say you are following the wrong path. I would rather not have a car or jewelry, but be able to fulfill my Tevilos as needed as I specified above. But some people understand the point of making it work when it comes to cars and jewelry or any material parts of our lifestyles but when it comes to a Davar Shebikdusha, they say let's not bother making it work, just let's do away with it because it's not important.
Katche-lab
DeleteOf course everything has to be judged according to halacha. I'm arguing that according to halacha it is preferable to do away with the tevilos that are chumros if it causes severe issurim to happen. R. Shlomo Zalman was against average people doing chumros because they would assume that chumros are as important as halacha, which seems to be the case here.
Katche-lab,
Delete"The discussion of the separation of the sexes needs to be determined on the basis of Halacha and no other basis, as I already explained"
It is OK to give such statement, in reality the Halocho is not that clear. It does not say anywhere that Men and ladies cannot use the same entrance for the shul.
It is does not say whether or not men should say hello to the next door female neighbors.
The list is long and using the word Halocho will make a little difference.
One of the main issue in opinion is how mechanchim approach potentially problematic situations. If in the case of separation between schools the built a 3 meter fence and when other problems occur they say nothing then you may end up in a situation with strange behaviors.
Eize Hu Chochom,
DeleteI agree with you. I didn't mean dry Halacha in the sense that you understood. I was responding to a comment which implied that we should relax our standards of the separation between sexes in order that people have some sense of satisfaction from the opposite sex and thereby not have issues when going to the Mikva(and we should close down the Mikvaos). To this I responded that we can't use this approach. The only approach that we can use is the approach that follows Halacha guidelines, which his logic does not. If a person is deriving sexual satisfaction from the opposite sex, that would be a reason to change that activity, not to promote it. And the idea that getting such satisfaction will prevent sin is incorrect. On the contrary, it will just make matters worse - Masbio Ra'ev. The Goyim have completely broken the boundaries of separation and that hasn't proven to make them less likely to sin in this area. But I agree with you that the standard must be evaluated by use of common sense because not everything 'says' in Shulchan Aruch. (Although a lot more 'says' than many wish to admit.) And sometimes the very preoccupation with excessive separation could make matters worse because Sof Kol Sof the person is preoccupied with this issue and it makes him think about it.
Is he a pedophile or an alleged pedolfile? As far as I know, he has NOT been charged yet, and this should be reflected in the title.
ReplyDeletehired two Israeli legal teams
ReplyDeletewhere did he get the money to hire two teams? is he a man of means?
He is. He has a large business. And he has a very wealthy Chassidish rebbe backing him.
DeleteDov,
DeleteCan you give us an hint of the identity of the Rebbe backing him and can tell us what explanation the wealthy Rebbe is giving?
Horedonke. He supports Grynhaus for the same reason the Aharoni supported Weberman even though he had no sofek he was guilty. Their thinking is that a yid should not sit in tfiseh, no matter what.
DeleteThis rebbe also started a campaign against the ehrliche rabbonim of Gateshead who told a frum girl Todros had raped that she should go to the police.
Thank you Dov,
DeleteIf your explanation is correct then the Rebbe is making today the next pedophile.
As I have personal interest in this case, can you advise me of where I can find more about the accusations in this case?
Contact the Gateshead Rov, Rav Zimmerman. His email address is easily found online.
DeleteI can't understand how you can say a Yid should not sit in tfiseh. His remaining on the loose keeps all children in tfiseh while their lives are in harms way, many times even fatal, and that is a fact. In times of the Sanhedrin, they deserved capital punishment after due process, why not at least keep them away from accessing children. May chozis dedomoch simkei tfei? Both Bros. spent lots of money to prevent Weberman from sitting in tfiseh, even at the expense of destroying a whole family and more, never mind tfiseh, and they were better yidden, that did not burn, rape, children or grown ups. What about all the minyonim yidden with white beards sitting in jail for decades that ponzied klall yisrael their entire wealth of a lifetime, left them berom uvchoser kol e.g. E. W. should he also not sit. Vehalo dvorim kal vachoimer, for gneivo it is ok to sit but for killing children and raping married women it is not? Hayitochen, where is the logic. Do you think Levi Aron should also not sit? As for T.G, he is entitled to have his day in court before you throw away the key, it is a process, so was it in the time of the Sanhedrin. You can run but you cannot hide. Torah achas yihye lochem, for beneshek's, amcho, blue blood or red blood, even for royal blood. Bonenu ze sorer umoreh applies equally to all. Fate of Avsholom was the fate of Amnon, so try not to loose sight and plight of our, young, the weak, and defenseless. If he is innocent, he should take advantage and stand trial to prove his innocence.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletechad gadyo,
DeleteLet me elaborate on what Dov suggested.
The statement of a Yid should not sit in Tsfiseh is an excuse and as you noted it does not make sense you therefore should not accept it, Instead, dig a little deeper for the real reasons.
In the case of Webberman then it is quite simple, he was part of the elite and therefore MUST be protected. Just imagine that a simple Satamr person would abuse the daughters of the elite of Satmar. Do yuo really believe that Satmar would bashmutz themselves for this person and also make perhaps millions for this cause? Of course they would not bother.
The case in Salford, may be less obvious but bear in mind that the Horodonke is a simple person, not a Rebbe or a son of one. Just a millionaire and his judgement is worth absolutely NOTHING.
I do appreciate much your honesty. However, I don't think you grasp the gravity of this situation. Shimon veLevi wiped out a whole town for raping their sister. Closing one or two eyes because of his position, only makes it worse. You MUST try to look at it objectively with a sechel hayoshor for several reasons. Having a moised with thousands of girls s'htichyi giving them chinuch bedrech yiroel sovo how to build a bayis neemon beyisroel, they see how their sisters are being serially raped in a brutal manner and everyone looks the other way, what can cholile vechas such do on an impressionable young girls mind? Much more so, when this same person is in charge of a position that supposedly is to bring them back to the Torah derech, while doing the worst to them instead. Double it, when this same person is designated as Rosh vaad mishmeres haznius by the alleged elite having him continue at it as if business as usual. What impression can such have on any Shomer Torah umitsvos yid, it is devastating on klall yisrael the chilul hashem, let alone uma yomru hagoyim, uma yaaseh habas hashovevo shelo yechto? If you would see chas vesholom a cheder engulfed in fire with children trapped inside i.e. with some hidden contraband, would you look the other way only to save face from the public, of course not. You try to save as many children as you possibly can, many even risking their lives while at it. For damage control, see what the Torah has to say about 'nosi asher yechto'. The more you try to sweep it under the rug, the bigger the flames will be. A kiddush hashem would have been to modeh veozev yeruchom. i.e. Dovid hamelech the elite, the King of Yisroel, hashem sent him noson hanovi telling him about kivsas horosh, vayomer dovid el noson chotosi laH'. Instead of trying to deny, they missed out the greatest opportunity to teach the talmidos right from wrong, together with a big kidush hashem. There is no nesios ponim lifnei H', not even a King, not for so called elite, let alone for a nechemye. It was wrong when the elite tried to console hordus when he read ' mikerev achecho', 'Avol achinu ato'. Please remember, after 120 all wear same and equal tachrichin before the beis din shel malo made from simple cotton, even the elite wear no ksones pasim. Tora achas yihye lochem, the same that was given for Moshe rabenu was given to all of klal yisroel, let it be berlands, halperns, grynhaus, webermans or whoever it might be. Look at Ahron's children or Miriam when they did not follow protocol. Think of it as a bitter pill as stated 'vechol ho'om yishmeu veyirou lemaan velo yezidun od'. If you can only look at it with a sechel hayoshor objectively, it would be a different world. May H' be merachem on all of us, kaper leamcho yisrael... uvo letsiyon goel.
DeleteChaim - he certainly has been charged. This is from the JC:
ReplyDelete"Grynhaus went on the run last year after he was charged with seven sexual assaults on children"
He has been charged but not convicted - ie he has not been fund guilty. It is therefore inaccurate and unfair to call him a pedophile without the qualifying "alleged".
ReplyDeleteFor some reason, every comment I make sems to have a typo!
DeleteEverything is alleged at the moment but his running away certainly gives reason to believe that he is guilty and he is a pedofile!
ReplyDeleteEngland has a fair judicial system! Why does this man feel the need to run?
Who are these 'ehrliche Gateshead Rabbonim' that told a girl to go to the police? Who brought charges against Grynhaus? Have any bona-fide Rabbonim helped him? (not people who open a shul in their house and attract people with free chulent)
ReplyDeleteyankel,
DeleteIt is odd that someone with such connections like Grynhaus will not be able to fend off false accusations.
If anyone is accused of such things they have a duty to defend themselves and present their version. Considering the above it is fair to call him a suspect and there is not point for anyone to defend him consequently making more victims. It is not to be denied that some people in our community have the kind of approach that will make too many more victims by consistently defending pedophiles.
Why is that the ra bonim are into saving the perpetrators, masking out Security cameras witnessing criminal activity that they yet need to explain as for what purpose, ruining lives of victims and families, shomrim and their friends breaking into homes while destroying property, don't they know that hashem also has a security camera backup. According to their records, there never was a molestation, violated children never committed suicide, then why do they need so much peoples hard earned money for dershbags to weasel out of their mud. Why do such chosheve people like S. from lakewood need to run to the orei miklat instead of the Rodef, leaving our children to the mercy of these pedophiles. We need to set up a Hatzala for our helpless young, and chase the perpetrators out of town for good. Where are the spineless feckless rabonim that blame everything on the internet but raping our daughters sits just fine. Why not convene massive assifos of vaad lehatsolos yaldei yisroel haoilomi? The answer my friend is look who is doing the perpetration, dayonim, their children, rebbes, their children, umoloh ho'oretz chamas. Time to vote them out of office.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that easy - I've looked for it, and I can't find it. What is it? Or, where can I find it?
ReplyDelete