update Washington Post A judge in New Jersey has ordered two rabbis and eight associates held in federal custody after being accused of plotting to kidnap and torture a man to force him to grant a religious divorce. Rabbis Mendel Epstein and Martin Wolmark, four alleged enforcers and four other associates all appeared in federal court in Trenton on Thursday.
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CBS News [FBI criminal charges] [see also Washington Post] [See Newsday article about alleged earlier case of torture] Bedatz protests cattle prod divorces
FBI agents raided several locations overnight in an investigation into a series of violent crimes against Orthodox Jewish men involved in religious divorces from their wives, according to CBS New York.
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CBS News [FBI criminal charges] [see also Washington Post] [See Newsday article about alleged earlier case of torture] Bedatz protests cattle prod divorces
FBI agents raided several locations overnight in an investigation into a series of violent crimes against Orthodox Jewish men involved in religious divorces from their wives, according to CBS New York.
The station reports a criminal complaint says the women who wanted to divorce their husbands would hire "tough guys," with approval from rabbis, to beat up their husbands and force them to consent them to divorce. Ten other people were also taken into custody, according to the station.[...]
An undercover investigation by the FBI, Wolmark linked the undercover agents to Epstein in New Jersey. Epstein allegedly said in a conversation, "Basically what were are going to be doing is kidnapping a guy for a couple of hours and beating him up and torturing him and then getting him to give the 'get.'"
He said the they would hire "tough guys" who would use "electric cattle prods, karate, handcuffs and place plastic bags over the heads of husbands."
Authorities reportedly said Epstein commits a kidnapping every year to year and a half.
The kidnapping would cost $10,000 for the approval of a rabbi and $60,000 to $70,000 for the "tough guys" they would hire.
Lnu and Potash would reportedly assist Epstein in the kidnappings.[...]
BHOL See below link for similar arrests in Monsey and New Jersey
הקהילה החרדית בארה"ב בתדהמה: סוכני הבולשת הפדרלית פשטו אתמול (ד), על בתיהם ובתי הכנסת של שני רבנים, האחד במונסי והשני בברוקלין.
הבולשת פשטה תחילה על ביתו של הדיין הרה"ג מנדל אפשטיין.
סוכני הבולשת הגיעו לביתו של הרב בשכונת פלטבוש ובו זמנית גם לבית מדרשו, ערכו חיפושים ועצרו אותו.
הרב הובל כשהוא אזוק באזיקים לניידת והוא נלקח לחקירה.
שעה לאחר מכן פשטו סוכני הבולשת הפדרלית על ביתו ובית מדרשו של הרב אשר וולמארק מראשי ישיבת שערי תורה במונסי.
דובר הבולשת בניו-יורק אישר כי נגד השניים מתנהלת מזה זמן חקירה, וכי בתום החקירה הוחלט לבצע את המעצרים.
בנוסף הוסיף ואמר, כי הרבנים מואשמים בסחיטה והלבנת כספים. לפי דיווחים בעיתונות המקומית החשדות קשורים להתארגנות שעסקה במאבק נגד סרבני גיטין
הבולשת פשטה תחילה על ביתו של הדיין הרה"ג מנדל אפשטיין.
סוכני הבולשת הגיעו לביתו של הרב בשכונת פלטבוש ובו זמנית גם לבית מדרשו, ערכו חיפושים ועצרו אותו.
הרב הובל כשהוא אזוק באזיקים לניידת והוא נלקח לחקירה.
שעה לאחר מכן פשטו סוכני הבולשת הפדרלית על ביתו ובית מדרשו של הרב אשר וולמארק מראשי ישיבת שערי תורה במונסי.
דובר הבולשת בניו-יורק אישר כי נגד השניים מתנהלת מזה זמן חקירה, וכי בתום החקירה הוחלט לבצע את המעצרים.
בנוסף הוסיף ואמר, כי הרבנים מואשמים בסחיטה והלבנת כספים. לפי דיווחים בעיתונות המקומית החשדות קשורים להתארגנות שעסקה במאבק נגד סרבני גיטין
lohud MONSEY — The FBI descended late Wednesday on Yeshiva Shaarei Torah in connection with an investigation into a gang that pressured men into giving their wives religious divorces, a law enforcement source told The Journal News..
David Wax, and Judy Wax, from Lakewood were arrested by the FBI in July 2011 and charged with beating Yisroel Bryskman. What ever happened to the Federal criminal charges against them?
ReplyDeleteThe case is still pending. The docket indicates that they have been entering what is called an Order to Continue every few months. That means that the Govt. and the defendants agree to extend the trial date. Probably are negotiating a plea.
DeleteI wouldn't be surprised if the Wax's ratted out Epstein and the crew arrested today. It is the same FBI Agent that investigated the Wax torture get that investigated Epstein and crew.
DeleteLooks like I'm right about this Epstein case is a result of cooperation in the Wax prosecution:
Deletehttp://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/10/2_rabbis_4_others_charged_in_divorce_shakedown.html
This whole deck of cards of the husband-beating rougue-get-writing-thugs getting all busted by the FBI and facing decades of hard time in the slammer all came tumbling down with the Yisroel Briskman beating in Lakewood two years ago by David Wax who is now cooperating and turning in his fellow thugs in order to win a lighter sentence for himself and his wife.
DeleteThe girl remarried in Israel even though ALL the Gedoilim say the get is posul
DeleteDovid Wax created a huge problem for many.
Delete1) the girl got remarried AGAINST the Gedoilim and poskim in Eretz Yisroel and America. So Wax has mamzeirim on his head.
Jack Lev:
DeleteAre you saying that Yisroel Briskman's wife hooked up with a new man and moved in with him?
Were any mamzeirim born to her yet?
Any such "get" ;procured through physical violence would be a "get me'usa" and thus a worthless invalid "get".
ReplyDeleteSo what was the point of the coercion?
Director, don't be naive. The "point" is about $100K payoffs to the the mob bosses in lieu of rabbis who sell their cattle prod services to naive Jewish women. These women are led to believe they are receiving a kosher GET.
DeleteMay Epstein and his fellow kosher nostra thugs be locked up for a long time. They are a grave danger to the survival of the Jewish family.
Did anyone discuss or mention epstein's scamming hundreds of people that he "represented" other then Gittin?
DeleteHow can someone doing eishes ish have any ne'emones on performing a GET that is supposed to to do crisus so as to end being an eishes ish. That goes for any and all Gittin he had a YAD in. Oxymoron. We need a REGISTRAR for all those gittin so performed, and compose a MAMZERUS LIST. We also would like to see pictures of all those thugs involved, as well as the bully chain from all the way to the TOP, to all the way to the bottom of the totem pole, and which of the Ra bonim have corroborated. I wonder why as of today, we have NO updates of what has been gathered till now. We hope there will not be a STADIUM gathering to declare anything in connection to this as LASHAN HARA. Indeed, veim lo yagid venoso avono. As r' Elyashiv said, these prod gittin are worthless, and the RODFIM are bebchinat Rotschim, and must be reported immediately. Ayin tachas ayin, shein tachas shein, they all should be waterboarded and stinged with the prods to sing like a canary, and dance like a heyena, AD SHEYOMER ROTZE ANI! For all those so called caliber-rated entities, should be locked up in Alcatraz, ad bias yinon, ad vead biklall, and don't forget to throw away the key. Then we shall know who is the big guy.
Deleteאם הם אינם יראים מה' ותורתו, מעתה הם יראו מן השלטון, עי' שו"ת הרא"ש (כלל י"ז סי' ו', וכלל מ"ג סי' ט), דמותר למסור את המבצעים הכפיות לשלטונות.
ReplyDeletedoes the FBI have nothing better to do with their time then arrest some old Rabbis for trying to help their own people? This whole thing sounds very anti-semitic!
ReplyDeleteHopefully these violent thugs who beat husbands with electric torture tools will be put into prison and the they'll throw away the key, letting them rot there for 20 years.
DeleteLeah, aren't you the lady Interviewed in the 90s outside the courthouse explaining that John gotta was a respectable man who did a lot of good, helping his community
Deletehttp://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/FBI-Raids-Yeshiva-School-NY-227185691.html
ReplyDeletehttp://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/10/fbi-raids-rockland-county-yeshiva-other-jewish-locations-in-tri-state/
http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/story/c6d4371f221d4e2d9d9a0e173781597b/NJ--Religious-Divorce-Coercion/#.Ula9RVDbPh4
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/2-rabbis-2-others-accused-of-nj-kidnap-plot-to-force-man-to-give-wife-religious-divorce/2013/10/10/07a78866-31ba-11e3-ad00-ec4c6b31cbed_story.html
ReplyDeletehttp://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/2-rabbis-among-4-charged-in-FBI-divorce-sting-4884534.php
http://www.kfoxtv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.national/26f94f11-www.kfoxtv.com.shtml#.UlbAdVDbPh4
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rabbis-thugs-cattle-prods-win-divorces-feds-charge/story?id=20528672
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/10/electric-cattle-prods-kidnapping-and-extortion-haredi-rabbis-busted-in-get-extortion-ring-567.html
B"H for these arrests as these rabbis are committing chilul hashem in becoming "lone rangers" and henchmen in breaking Halocho for a handsome payout and producing mamzeirim in klal yisroel!!
Delete"Mendel Epstein talked about forcing compliance through the use of 'tough guys' who utilize electric cattle prods, karate, handcuffs and place plastic bags of the heads of husbands," said FBI Special Agent Bruce Kamerman.
ReplyDeleteFBI Special Agent Bruce Kamerman is the same FBI Agent prosecuting David Wax and Judy Wax of Lakewood for beating Yisroel Bryskman into giving a Get:
http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/Press/files/pdffiles/2011/Wax,%20David%20and%20Judy%20Complaint.pdf
As noted by another commentor above (and as I believe Rabbis Eidensohn have noted all along), all these so-called gittin are completely invalid as a matter of halacha. If so, the rabbis arranging and presiding over these may as well just falsely claim that a get was given.
ReplyDeleteHowever, these thoroughly corrupt rabbis can charge much more money for arranging a kidnapping and beating as part of issuing an invalid get, than for just issuing an invalid get without the beating and kidnapping.
Perhaps the learned moderator can clarify, but I thought only the Rashba forbids these coercions. Otherwise, they are fair game. The example too being that of the Kohen who marries a convert... they beat him until he divorces, knowing that he is really just following his Yetzer Hatov once his Yezter Hara is beaten out of him.
DeleteAbsolutely not true
Deletethis is all about money and not halocho. one article stated that mendel epstein stated that they convene a bais din first before the beatup. I would like to know who this bais din is that decided that the undercover fbi agent woman who requested a get, that her case justifies the kidnapping???
ReplyDeleteShmuel: That's a great point.
DeleteIn this Epstein already had a "Beis Din" give permission to beat the husband of the undercover female FBI agent posing as an Orthodox woman. Problem is there is no husband. And there was no valid halachic basis to beat someone for a "get". Epstein and his Beis Din never met or spoke to the husband. Yet they already authorized a beis din sanctioned violent beating with electric rods to get the "get".
This all means ALL the historical Epstein gittin for the past 20 years, having used this modus operandi, are invalid and those women all remain married eishes ish's. And if they "remarry" they are adulteresses and their new children are mamzeirim.
Epstein has a long history of this kind of activity. It was in the newspapers about him doing this back in the mid-1990s. This DT blog has the story about that victim too.
Ignorant and irresponsible commentors here. Allegations and suspicion don't mean guilty. Rabbi wolmark is an amazing person; truly. And rabbi epstien has done a lot of good for pple. Anger, rebellion and nekama have grown to new heights in this generation and some of you pple seem to be part of this new trend. If any of you commentors would be femail which is clear u are not; it would be different. Yes, a man that doesn't give a get needs to be punished. And no, u am haaratzim have no idea what ur talking about when it comes to a valid get unless if u urself are the culprit of a beating and spewing ur bitter guilt over on these pages. A woman needs to be freed and hopefully the american govt would one day do something drastic about it in law. Instead of feeding to the vengeful, hateful and bitter culprits like some of you. This case is clearly the outcome of a guy wanting to take nekama. I have no doubt; knowing the wolmarks that this case will be dismissed in no time. I just suggest in the meantime before you dummies comment on a sugya u clearly don't know; that u perhaps take a tutor and learn it. It will serve you well. And about ur anger? It won't get u anywhere.
ReplyDeleteYou need to learn the halachos of something called a "get me'usa".
DeleteI just posted a comment butclicked on anonymous; about anger, nekama and rebellion. Can u please publish itfor me not that u know my info.
ReplyDeleteYou may have an opinion about what is or is not a Get Me'usa, but do not speak about particular gittin that have already been issued unless you want to transgress the very severe cheirem of Rabbenu Tam.
ReplyDeleteSo we should just allow rampant adultery and the birth of mamzeirim from women who received a get me'usa through the beating of their husband into submission?
DeleteAre you out of your mind?
DeleteDo you think cherem d'Rabeinu Tam gives license to every unscrupulous ignoramus to give a Get and resist to questioning about it because "you can't speak about Gittin that have already been written" ???
Yes, that is precisely what I mean.
DeleteAnd if you knew the way that great Rabbonim with 'breyte pleytzus' have dealt with the issue of actual, incontrovertible mamzerim over decades and centuries, you would know that the last thing you should do is scream about it from the rooftops.
Kano'us does not equal gadlus.
Mamzeirim factories, where idiots allow women to remarry with a get me'usa while she is still halachicly married to her first husband, is something that we do have to shout against from the rooftops.
DeleteWe don't need more mamzeirim in Klal Yisroel.
Our Gedolei Haposkim in every generation since matan torah have used their massive knowledge of halocho, and their genius in chakira, to minimise to the tiniest degree the extent of mamzerus in klal yisroel, because of the indescribable tzaar to the blameless child.
Delete"וראיתי את דמעת העשוקים ואין להם מנחם – זה ממזר"
Then, lehavdil elef havdolim, you have kyboard warriors on here who think that because they can open a Rambam they can passul up thousands of gittin of bnos yisroel from behind their monitors and blithely create thousands of mamzerim without a care in the world. This is the world of the "psak by pashkevill" that blights our generation, and is this is EXACTLY what Rabbeinu Tam was talking about when he made his cheirem against ever querying a get. If the commenters on here were part of the Sanhedrin Hagodol (cholilo vechas) never mind once in seventy years, they would be executing ten people a week.
Snag please look at this teshuva of Rav Sternbuch who apparently disagrees with you
Deletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/10/rav-sternbuchproblem-of-get-meusa-in.html
Thank You Daas Torah. Exactly what I am referring to you. Snag, it would do you well do read that teshuva.
Delete
ReplyDeleteLet me make two points:
1. The halakha of כופין אותו עד שיאמר רוצה אני applies ONLY to a beis din, and then ONLY when, having heard both sides, they determine that it is appropriate to force a get. It does not appear either happened here.
2. When this topic comes up, I always repeat what I heard from R. Aharon Soloveichik in shiur (now over 20 years ago). A beis din by definition has to be a body that operates openly and has power to force someone to do something. At various times in history, the local authority (king or other sovereign) empowered Jewish courts to rule over their Jewish subjects, so the batei din in those times and places had such authority. (In Moslem Spain, some batei din had the power to inflict capital punishment! That is discussed in a Teshuvah by the Rosh.)
However, in modern America, batei din have no such authority, and beating someone is a criminal act. A beis din that orders someone beaten until he gives a get is encouraging criminal behavior, and the only way to do so is to act secretly in the hopes that the authorities will not catch them. That simply is not a "beis din" and any get forced by such beatings (or threats of beatings) is null and void.
(I assume, although I did not hear, that milder, legal forms of pressure would be proper. A beis din that ruled that Ploni should not be given honors in shul, or shunned by God-fearing Jews, would act legally under American law, so that would be a permitted form of pressure.)
What you learn from this whole story the bogus bais dins of today. If you read the federal complaint listed on the top, it shows that this bais din consisted of epstein wolmark and yaakov, the very same henchmen who took money to do this job and never asked the husband his version of the story, but rather ordered a kidnapping solely based on the wifes testimony!!
ReplyDeletefor any of you disagreeing with bais din or these legitimate rabbanim . That would be a reflection of people that believe or feel they don't need to give a divorce in order for them to have children or marry again. They'll have the children with whomever despite that. Otherwise, if you do believe that a man should be giving his wife a divorce which would be the real civil thing to do. And had this been done then no of the "kidnapping"...... would ever have been a conversation. For you to even slightly support a man that doesn't give his wife a divorce means a mind falling back into the time of the dark ages. What I figure is is that you disagree and are hocking against rabbanim and bais din and talking about the "modern" way of interpeting law is because you are people filled with hate and a will to rebel.
ReplyDeleteMiriam it would be helpful if you bothered reading the article before making declarations about Jewish law. You would see that they are accused of greed. Taking money to torture people - even though it is not permitted by Jewish law and the get would be invalid. In the particular case they were arrested for - they obviously didn't even varify the assertion of the "wife" before agreeing to torture the husband.
DeleteMiriam:
DeleteThese thugs arrested today were no legitimate "bais din". They were simply a mafia-for-hire gang who beat-for-pay, with a $60,000 an incident fee.
How could you call them a bais din? The husband was never invited to testify. Heck, the husband was never even told that the wife is making a bais din. These thugs -- after the wife ponied up the $dough$ -- had three thugs declare themselves a bais din -- without the husband being there or even knowing about it -- and then issuing a "psak din" that it is okay to beat him with electric torture tools.
Then they'd send their hired thugs to electrocute him until he gave a "get", which of course is then a get me'usa and any new marriage is adultery and new children mamzeirim, if that get me'usa is used to remarry.
The female FBI Agent posing as a Orthodox Jewish woman got these guys to make a kangaroo "beis din" -- without the husband -- to say its okay to torture him.
A husband has no obligation to give his wife a divorce simply because she wants one. Halachicly he can decide to remain married to her and she must accept that. That is black and white Torah Law. Accept it. The only exception is if he physically abused her during marriage or something like that, and refused to stop. Otherwise he has no duty to give her a Get even if she demands one.
DeleteDaas Torah:
DeleteI read the article clearly. I know exactly what was written. I also know that every word of rebuttal i wrote; i stand by. These are all allegations. And halacha is not as simple as you make it sound. And what I can add to that is; that there are some natural sensitivity that people born into families that have all our lives been jewish and frum have that only some smart and valid balei teshuva or geirim work hard to acquire and achieve so they become pure and legitimate. Respect to bais din is something every yid needs to have. Had the man given a divorce to his wife; none of this would've happened. Lets get to the root of the problem.
Miriam
Delete"Had the man given a divorce to his wife; none of this would've happened."
According to the FBI complaint, this was all set-up by the FBI. There was no wife and no husband and no marriage, and so how was there supposed to be a divorce?
"Had the man given a divorce to his wife; none of this would've happened."
DeleteThere was no husband at all in this case; it was an FBI sting operation with undercover agents!
Miriam:
DeleteThe man never was obligated to give a divorce. A man isn't obligated to give a divorce simply on the wishes of his wife. That is basic black and white Jewish Law. She needs to demonstrate valid cause to a legitimate beis din that she is entitled to a divorce. If her husband didn't wrong her in a manner that halacha deems him required to divorce her, she cannot force him to divorce her. And only a beis din can make that determination.
These arrested thugs never had a beis din that the husband was invited to. And no beis din can convent without all parties present. They took the word of a female FBI Agent posing as a Orthodox woman wanting a "get" and within a few weeks were ready to beat and torture the husband with electrical shocks without ever having spoken to him. She was not entitled to a "get" under Torah Law. And if they had forced one out of him it would be a get me'usa. That is the whole idea behind the halacha of get me'usa. If she remarried on that basis she would be an adulteress and any future children would be mamzeirim.
to be fair to r epstein, he offers the same service to men who'se ex wives refuse a get. (i know of cases. other rabbis, too.)
ReplyDeletethe reason why r epstein was not prosecuted years ago, was because the brooklyn DA was running for governor, and had a major problem with the jewish community (crown heights, and how he messed it up; some like me, say, on purpose).
he made a deal with the brookklyn rabbonim -- i wont prosecute, and no one will bring up crown heights in the campaign.
and thats what happened. of course, her lost the primary anyway, but he couldnt blame the jews for that. today, is different.
Mr. MiMedinat HaYam:
DeleteI can assure that in the over 20 years that Epstein has been torturing and beating men into giving a get me'usa, he has NEVER once had a wife thrown into a van and shocked with electrical rods and torture tools as he has done to husbands. Even if she refused to accept a Get.
i was "involved" in one case, and am told of others.
Deletenote -- no "get me'usa" issues here.
it was properly done, more visible physical threats than cattle prods. the case i was involved in, involved the girl's father, with the rest of the family looking on. she capitulated immediately, at request of rest of family (she was a "moma's girl", so it was enough).
for those wondering - “Fnu Lnu,” shorthand for “First name unknown, Last name unknown.” The acronym is often used in the early stages of a criminal case, when investigators cannot identify a voice on a wiretap, or the identity of someone picked up in an immigration sweep.
ReplyDeletehttp://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/nyregion/unidentified-defendants-have-bedeviled-courts-for-decades.html
Oh man, I actually thought it was like some Cambodian thug or something... lol!
DeleteYerucham, you do not know that. And these rabbanim will not be invalidated because of a few self hating and angry pple that are jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts or halacha.like it or leave it.......... These rabbanim are valid, legitimate rabbanim accepted by all batei dinnim if u like it or not. Perhaps their method is not the smartest but their judgement in believing that the man needs to give a get is most probably based on a true knowledge of our torah. The torah can sometimes be hard to keep for some of you guys as it is obvious by ur comments. Modern orthodoxy is a great way out. Where judaism is a multiple choice test. You choose whatand how u feel comfortable in halacha. You love the laws of the land better than ur own so u work on finding ways to make it look equal. And sadly that can't happen.
ReplyDeleteMiriam: It's obvious. The FBI Agent lady posing as an "aguna" had no real husband, Epstein and company never spoke to any husband. So how was able to force him with torture to give a Get if he never spoke to him before and no beis din ever brought him to trial before? It was all a sham yet he was ready to beat him even though he only knew what she claimed to him.
Delete@Miriam - "Yes, a man that doesn't give a get needs to be punished":
ReplyDeleteMiriam's irrational feminist rants really demonstrate the abysmal Torah ignorance, the moral bankruptcy, and hypocritical double standard of the feminist supporters of Mendel Epstein and company.
The great majority of decent men posting here, while correctly condemning thugs like Mendel Epstein, would also correctly condemn any men beating their wives or using cattle prods on their wives.
Phony, feminist hypocrites like Miriam will of course strongly condemn any criminal actions by men against women. But these same feminist hypocrites constantly invoke twisted logic and Torah falsifications to condone and justify violence committed against men by women and their hired goons like Mendel Epstein.
It is outrageous to even think that Rabbi Wolmark did it fur the money.It is well known that he has helped hundreds of people and performs standard get procedures FOR FREE it is totally outrageous to think otherwise.
ReplyDeleteThen maybe you should read the FBI report. Very clearly asked for money.
DeleteMiriam this is the last of your nonsense that I am posting. Please have the intelligence to at least speak with a rabbi before you spout views that are directly against halacha and the Torah's views.
DeleteSara, you are partially correct.
DeleteHis main interest is not the money, but the thrill he gets from being a bully and thug. He s a despised figure -- and not because of what he does with Gittin.
LKol Mon DBoei LeMaida - Yesh Baal HaBayis (Hashem) LeBira Zu (this world) and so-called "rabbis" who violate Jewish law to the point of ch"v causing mamzerim and who act in despicable ways to force the end of marriages will be stopped.
ReplyDeleteOn the posuk, lo sachbol reichaim vrochev (in Parshas Ki Saitzei) the Targum Yerushalmi (mistakenly but often called Targum Yonason - which is really only for Na"Ch) states that one who interferes in matters between a husband and wife (obviously a aside from the rare cases in which a get is compelled - which in halacha are extreme and rare - unlike today's show rabbis) has no chelek in olam haboh.
These so-called rabbis malign, falsely defame and do other terrible things to husbands. Not only have these B"H been stopped, but their motives - money and false power and nothing to do with religion, have also B"H been exposed to the world.
Hashem is Just in all ways.
Yes, a man that doesn't give a get needs to be punished.
ReplyDeleteAn absurd statement at best, and dangerous at worst. Dina D'Malcusa Dina. The US govt, as is clear from this investigation, does not allow a person to be kidnapped and tortured. So even if there were one of the few cases in the Shulhan Arukh that permitted Kofin, it would still be against halakha in the US to do so.
These rabbanim are valid, legitimate rabbanim accepted by all batei dinnim if u like it or not.
That is quite an assertion. Especially given the actual facts of taking money for torture. I don't think any Rabbi would call them legitimate. Quite the opposite in fact.
Had the man given a divorce to his wife; none of this would've happened. Lets get to the root of the problem.
That's the rub. THERE WAS NO MAN. A supposed B"D issued an order for a man to be beaten without ever halakhically convening. A B"D cannot judge a person in their absence. Nor can any B"D in the US force a man to appear before them against his will. So even in the issuance of a Seruv, if the husband so much as sends a letter to the B"D saying he does not accept them as judges over him, they have no further authority.
So in this case where a supposed B"D was going to stoop to despicable vigilante measures for a man they have never seen or corresponded with in any way... Well that is about the epitome of illegitimate.
So sickening to see the get lunatics on this board. To all of them. There is a True and Just G-d who runs the world and who will stop these crazy so-called rabbis who break and desecrate Jewish law and Jewish marriage. Creeps like Mendel Epstein have been shown to the world to be inhumane and that even their motives are money and (false) power and not religious. In terms of religion:
ReplyDelete1) These so-called rabbis break Jewish law in the worst of ways. The Targum Yerushalmi on the verse "lo sachbol reichayim vorochev" states that a person who mixes in in a marriage or causes animosity between a husband and wife has no portion in the World to Come.
2) Jewish law states that except in extremely rare cases such a "divorce" is invalid and the children of a future marriage are mamzerim - thank the get crazies for that and only that..
3) The above mentioned lunatics generally take women who are suffering from postpartum anxiety and convince to fight for divorce against all medical advice and against real rabbis who do follow Torah. They are inhumane and fight against humane rabbis who fight hard to save marriages.
May they all be stopped soon by Hashem, just as Mendel Epstein, shem reshoim yirkav (may the names of evil people be blotted out), was.
Emes lyaakov: ur a man of assumptions. Here too ur stating ur own opinion and trying to draw it out as fact. Fact: a man that doesn't give a get to his wife needs to be punished. Fact: american law will never fully understand jewish law which overpowers any law. Fact: men should not be put into any danger or abusive situation where I do believe women can be much more abusive than men, they just cover it up better. Fact: what I'm stressing is that there should be no excuse given to a man that doesn't give a get or vice versa a woman to a man. Fact: why I don't approve of violence ; it has helped in the past and unless the american govt puts into law that a man gets a jail sentence or punishment for not supplying his wife with a get if approved by a valid bais din then these things are undoubtly gonna continue happening. Fact: oy vavoy if halacha would be dictatedb y assuming minds like u; we would be back to square one as jewish nation. As proof: I've been stressing the giving a get part of the story and in this story were talking about a man. The feminist assumptions and more were created by little butterflies in ur mind.
ReplyDeleteFact: You are probably a troll and any attempt at discussion will be a waste of time.
DeleteFact: You have demonstrated incredible ignorance of Jewish law.
Fact: Fact: a man that doesn't give a get to his wife needs to be punished. This statement goes against 1000yrs of Jewish law and halakha decisions.
Fact: This statement it has helped in the past and unless the american govt puts into law that a man gets a jail sentence or punishment for not supplying his wife with a get if approved by a valid bais din would be in direct violation of the 1st Amendment.
Fact: You say I've been stressing the giving a get part of the story and in this story were talking about a man. But there is no man. There was an undercover FBI agent who claimed without proof that she had a husband who had refused her a Get. These huckster Rabbis offered violence for hire without ever speaking to the husband or clarifying details according to halakha. What you are so incredibly failing(or refusing to comprehend) is that these actions are so far out of line with halakha and normative B"D procedures that it would be funny if it were not for real.
Fact: These huckster Rabbis deserve to spend some very long reflection time in prison for their actions and the harm it has done to klal Yisrael.
The community has been holding protest and harassing people based on seruvim from these people. The seruv against Aharon Friedman was signed by Rabbi Wolmark & Rabbi Ralbag. He was beaten in his wife's driveway. Perhaps, his protestations of innocence and that the beis din was bogus have some validity. Many of the seruvim on the ORA website is from the same seruv factory.
ReplyDeleteThe US Attorney prosecuting Epstein/Wolmark mentioned that "a Congressional staffer was beaten in broad daylight", referring to Aharon Friedman.
Deletethis is a big yatzer hara - we should all be careful not to be ovair
ReplyDeletebinfol oyivecha al tismach
don't be happy over the fall of your enemy
באבוד רשעים רינה
DeleteSomething does not make sense here. R. Epstein definitely knows Halakha, and condemning someone sight-unseen is beneath him. This must have been one heck of a sting operation.
ReplyDeletedonn't make anonymous comments!
ReplyDeleteI did shimush on gittin years back at various botei din in the US & E.Y.
ReplyDeleteIn both places I caught problems some more serious than others. I stopped an older Rabbi, being mesader a get, because there was a line missing in it, it was almost over & he asked why was I making a noise. I must admit he stepped down & said the get was posul, the couple were upset, because it needed rescheduling.
I wondered how many such gittin were actually given, when no alert talmidim were present. I stopped going to that Rov he would meet me in the corridor, and ask why I didn't come to him, I couldn't say outright, that I had nothing to gain from him.
I had a story in the US where I wouldn't sign a heiter meah, after sitting on beis din for it, that is for another time.
Back here, if the FBI complaint is true, not only should this post have been called mamzer factory, but many other serious problems arise. What is to stop a shiksa getting a get from a goy at this beis din, and then going on to marry a yid using her ptur. In E. Y. the Rabanut demand witnesses to prove both parties are Jewish. In the US the erlicher botei din, ask for as much info as possible , drilling down to the grandparents shul, etc,and even then, sometimes inserting in the ptur ain anu achroim al yahadusah. We take no responsibility for her Jewishness.
If this is a way a beis din convened, after a fee was paid, BTW even for gittin many achronim, hold one cannot take money for being a dayan, some say that seeing the dayan may not marry this particular lady (also not a universal psak, & doesn't help if the dayan is a Cohen) he may take a fee to cover that loss.
Further more how do they convene & give a psak with no man, no investigation who the man is. Even the siruv part is useless, how do they know that he ever got the siruv?
To make a get meusah without knowing the facts on the basis that a siruv sent with an address or worse fax number supplied by the toveia, and not checked or investigated further, is a valid psak by who?
What bothers me is, all those gittin done in this way, probably produce mamzeirim. Granted only the wealthy could afford this service, so my guess is they too could find a rabbi to be mesader kidushin, and what about a Mohel not calling out mamzerus by the bris? Momoin Metaher mamzeirim?
I won't pasel all his gittin in cyber space, because we go out of the way not to be moitzi laaz,& try to kasher any get, but I would advise anyone who has not married, possibly those married who haven't had children yet, to have new get made, or at least their situation paskened by a kosher beis Din. I would also advise anyone not to marry any woman who received a get through this Beis Din.
As for the so called agunos, let us be fair, many Toanim & dayanim who earn their living, may really be doing you an injustice. When a marriage has failed, difficult decisions & compromises that you were unable to reach while in marriage, must be reached to be able to move on.
All of us know some men, who their whole sin is that they are a little weird or schlepers, which was known , before they got married, but when Papa's money run out so did the wife. Sometimes she cheated on him etc., but not being a man of means and realizing it was over he took a bad deal & gave a get, only to find himself homeless or living in a basement, denied his visitation rights, all his money garnished, and no hope of remarrying, while she makes off with his house yerusha & children & bad mouths him all over the world, & gets him arrested anytime he enters her state. For those men there is no ORA, they have to suffer & be persecuted, or set on by Mendel Epstien.
uperseding Criminal Complaint Against Mendel Epstein
ReplyDeletehttp://failedmessiah.typepad.com/files/mendel-epstein-et-al-superseding-criminal-complaint-10-10-2013.pdf
There are Batei Din that are corrupt!!! We should use this scandal as an opportunity to straighten out our Batei Din. I know it may be hard as some of our "Gedolim" have no legitimacy when it comes to speaking on this matter. Here are some Ideas
ReplyDelete1. No Dayan who charges money !!!
In beis din we are supposed to care about Torah law. The small court case as important as the large court case. This is not possible if each Dayan is taking "schar batala" of 200 dollars per hour. If we got rid of the money involved in dayanus this would be a strong step in helping the klal
2. No Toanim who are paid money!!
It is wonderful to bring a friend to help you express your tayna, these Toanim who take thousands of dollars and have no moral compass are destroying whatever is left of our Batei Din. They also cross over as Zabla Dayanim, which makes it all the more a joke, especially that many of these Toanim are in cherem themselves.
3. No Dayanim who haven't taken a test on the subject they are ruling.
Unless we have Rav Moshe Feinstein, or someone of that caliber, we need to have Dayanim taking tests, and not one time but every 3-5 years. Who ever qualified any of these guys to write gittin, to pasken dinei mamonos, in this case nefashos, as beating someone can kill him. These guys who were willing to pasken with hearing one side, and hurt someone physically, obviously are chashudim on not knowing, or not caring about basic halachos. Let's at least qualify our Dayanim.
4. A hierarchy for Batei Din
We can't allow every three guys to open their own little beis din, and become "bar plugta" with the Poskei hador. We need either one or two Batei din in each city/neighborhood who follow Halacha and are accountable with their psakim to some organization. Rabbonim should review the psakim. Psakei din should not be done in hiding. They should be posted online. Let the Dayan who paskens know that people will review his psak. If someone has a complaint about having a psak din without a hazmana, or similar seruvim without hazmanos, they should have somewhere to turn.
5. Batei Dinim should be helpful to the klal
One of the reasons Batei din have a lower approval rating than congress, is they are perceived as stereotypically corrupt, selfish, out of touch, expensive, and places where nepotism rules, and Halacha plays a minuscule role in the whole process. That is why it is most common for people "even rebbes" not to ever agree on which beis din to go to. Now lets ask a honest question. "If the Rabbis don't trust the Batei Din, to pasken Halacha, why the hell would anyone else" ?
I would like to see Batei Din involved with the klal. Making shiddichim, helping with parnassah, giving tzedaka, dealing with Gemachs and loans, actually caring for people, human beings. If they did any of these things, perhaps people would come to them when they had a dispute.
After all of this, for Agudah, to come out and protect these people, is an abomination, it shows they have little moral compass, they don't care about the klal, and are nothing more than the congress, a political organization that's primary concern is their own welfare, self protection, and a good ol' boys club for rich Orthodox Jews, at the expense of ehrliche yidden, and at the expense of Halacha.
People speak of how much Torah we have today. If that doesn't come with how we have good Batei Dinim today, the Torah is meaningless, because it is not meant to be brought to Halacha Lemaseh.
A good start.
DeleteHalacha can only function, even in Galus, if Jews have a seriously Jewish attitude, not me-first or me-only such as fosters corruption.
ReplyDeleteWe have seen grave abuses of the Jewish divorce process from all sides, including extortion and beating. Where are the responsible communal leaders to set matters straight, and where are the responsible husbands and wives to use the process in good faith as per halacha despite negative emotions?
Rabbi Tzadok,
ReplyDeleteIt would appear you owe a huge apology to both Rabbi Eidensohns, not to mention the victims of this gang, for your previous spurious claims accusing them of false reporting on the vicious attacks committed by this gang and accusing them of falsely reporting on law enforcement activity in this area.
You haven't come anywhere near close to showing a definitive connection. Like I said then, you could call the police and ask them they have to tell you what is going on in a specific investigation.
DeleteActually, law enforcement will not tell you "what is going on in a specific investigation" - as you yourself have proven in this matter.
Delete==========================================
During the defendants’ appearance in Trenton federal court, prosecutor Joe Grippo called them all “a strong danger to the community.”
“I have been in touch with a husband who believes he’s been targeted and had a tracking device in his car. And another is a US congressional staffer who was assaulted by a minivan full of men,” he said.
http://nypost.com/2013/10/10/rabbis-busted-in-alleged-husband-torture-plot/
That is a possible connection. That isn't definitive however. Further you have no evidence that the FBI was investigating that particular case as of yet.
DeleteThe treife "get me'usas" are not only those produced by the Mendel Epstein Mamzer Factory and the like. But even those husbands who gave a "get" under duress or threat and knowledge that they MAY get beaten up by these gangsters or some other unhalachic pressure, their gittin are too invalid get me'usas. And any future children by his wife mamzeirim.
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/08/aharon-friedman-assaulted-in-wifes.html
ReplyDeleteRabbi Michael TzadokAugust 4, 2012 at 8:45 PM
I am saying this is made up.
I called the Lower Merion Police department(610.649.1000. I spoke with public relations officer Walsh. He said that they have no report any any assualt, attempted assualt or attempted abduction on the day in question, or in regards to a Mr Friedman.
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2012/08/aharon-friedman-assaulted-in-wifes.html
ReplyDeleteRabbi Michael TzadokAugust 5, 2012 at 1:54 PM
I'm not covering up anything, and in fact I am giving you the resources to find the truth yourself if you want.
Lower Merion Police Department 610.649.1000. Ask to speak to Public Relations Officer Walsh.
Philadelphia FBI Field office. 215.418.4000 If there was an incident that they are investigating under the Freedom of Information act they are required to tell you.
Rabbi Michael TzadokAugust 5, 2012 at 9:31 AM
ReplyDeleteI'm insinuating nothing. I am saying that the story was made up and R' Eidensohn didn't bother to check facts by making a simple phone call to the police.
Tamar Epstein's lawyer continues to mislead (to put it charitably) in new Washington Jewish Week article:
ReplyDeletehttp://washingtonjewishweek.com/arrested-rabbi-has-tie-to-area-jewish-divorce-case/
Epstein’s attorney, Fredric Goldfein, gave an emphatic “no” when asked if Epstein had hired anyone to beat Friedman, adding he wasn’t even sure Friedman’s allegations “amounted to anything.”
So you expect her lawyer to go in front of reporters and confess to his client's involvement in a number of felony offenses?
DeleteFurther you say that the lawyer, "continues to mislead". Do you have any actual evidence that Tamar Epstein was involved or is this more of your unsubstantiated accusation?
It was done on Ms. Epstein's behalf. If she didn't want it done it wouldn't have been done.
DeleteSame with the wives of all the other husbands who were victimized with a beating.
Yeah and the rats spread the black death on behalf of the Jews too. IF they didn't want it done it wouldn't have been done, after all they benefitted from less anti-semites.
DeleteSeriously dude learn logic.
Braindead: Why was Mr. Friedman beaten if not on Ms. Epstein's behalf?
DeleteAs the expression goes when the sh** hits the fan. It lookes like the FBI will have their hands full going through all the files and computers confiscated during the raids. I would also imagine that the "tough guys" will be singing like canaries to try and save their own hides. We all know that their are more "Rabbis" that are involved in this mafia (hint. Kashrus industry).
ReplyDeleteWhat about all the women that hired this gang, doesn't look like Epstein/Wolmark were the type to hide their tracks very well. Emails, phone calls, bank wires, "Bais Din" records - I would imagie there are a quite a few individuals wating for a knock on the door.
There are lots of people who have waited years for these scum bags to be caught - now its time to sit back and wait for the details to emerge. Have some patience Barindead, Michael Tzadok, avf etc.. its just a matter of time.
I am waiting to see the FBI lineup the "ex-"wives who hired these thugs and charge them. When we start seeing these women locked up in Federal Penitentiary a message will indeed have been sent to the community that this will not be tolerated.
DeleteWhich is precisely why the US has RICO laws.
DeleteIt Is Not any Better in Lakewood Ihr Hatorah where Woman are Constantly Taking out Restraining Orders on Their Husbands which is Very easy to Obtain at The Ocean County Feminist Family Court in Toms River, and Than Have Their HusBands and Ex Husbands Arrested and Jailed on Bogus and Flimsy "Violations" so as to Get Revenge on Their Husbands for any Past Percieved Insult or Slight and so as To Portray the Husband as a Criminal so that the Woman Can Gey Full Custody of the Children
ReplyDeleteNow we undersand why the new SECURITY CAMERAS has to be buffered by the Ra bonim. These thugs and goon squads need to kept in the dark! Aval ma osoh H'KBH, vehoka osom leinei hshemesh in advance. Shame on you all.
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ReplyDelete