Friday, June 28, 2013

Hamodia vs RCA regarding Satmar Rally against Draft

Hamodia - The Hypocrisy of the RCA -    The most disturbing part of the RCA statement is that it says that the rally, which was called for and planned under the direction of the Gedolim, including both Satmar Rebbes, was “an insult to the memory of the Satmar Rav … For all his well-known opposition to a secular state, he always put the protection of Jewish lives first. It is unthinkable that … he would have countenanced aiding and abetting our enemies.” (It is important to point out that the opposition of other Gedolim to the rally was not for the reasons the RCA condemned it. It was a question of how we, as frum Jews, are supposed to work to get rid of this gezeirah, and whether public protest is an effective method.) It would seem that the RCA president is guilty of the very thing the Chasam Sofer was worried about, and is ascribing his own opinion to the Satmar Rav, zt”l.  

Hamodia - The RCA responds   Review the pictures of the rally, especially the signs speaking of a war on religion, and the lack of freedom of religion in Israel. Can you understand what a victory this is to millions and millions of deep-seated haters of Jews who wish to counter the support for Israel that she asks for as the Middle East’s only democracy? Satmar knows that its sons will never be drafted, and they don’t take money from the “illegal Zionist entity.” What were they protesting, other than the existence of the State itself? We cannot understand — and will not accept — acting in concert with them. We believe that the Gedolei Torah who said to stay away from the rally did not just differ with the organizers about which methods will be effective in countering the proposed measures. It is our understanding that some or all of them understood the terrible effect this could have, consciously or otherwise, on non-Jewish Americans whose favorable image of Israel is under constant attack. Satmar wanted to co-opt the anger and frustration of the Torah community over the Lapid proposals for its own cynical agenda. They wanted to maximize the impact of anti-Israel feeling; our job was to minimize it. Hence, we asserted that those who attended the rally are a small but vocal minority that should not take away from the image Americans have for strong support of Israel. If Americans sense that Jews are not supportive of their own state, they ask themselves why they should be supportive. If any members of Congress were negatively impressed by the rally, organizers will have Jewish blood, G-d forbid, on their hands.

We had one purpose, and only one purpose in our statement: to counter the image of Israel that the rally placed before the American public. We did not comment on the Lapid measures. One reason is that our members are split on how to react to them. We have some members who have been working hard to counter these measures, some of them taking their concerns straight to the Israeli government. We also, however, have members who refuse to label demands for chareidi participation in all parts of the life of the nation and insistence upon the teaching of basic educational skills in schools as a “gezeiras shmad.” Because different points of view are represented among our membership, we sometimes have to stay away from certain issues — just as Agudah does to maintain its fragile alliance between Litvishe and chassidishe elements.


Hamodia - Lets-state-the-true-facts   In reality, the rally that the RCA condemned was endorsed and attended by leading kehillos whose viewpoints strongly differ from the Satmar approach, including Sanz-Klausenberg, Belz and Boyan. The Rebbes of Skulen, Vizhnitz, and Rachmastrivka urged their followers to attend. Among those who participated were Roshei Yeshivah and Rabbanim such as, shlita, Harav Aaron Schechter, Harav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, Harav Noach Aizik Oelbaum, Harav Yaakov Horowitz, Harav Osher Kalmanowitz, Harav Simcha Bunim Paler, Harav Moshe Meiselman and others. Anyone who recognizes these names will be able to see that the protest was reflective of the broader Torah world. Indeed, both Satmar Rebbes were involved in the planning, and attended — but this wasn’t a rally against the legitimacy of the State of Israel. It was a rally in defense of Torah Judaism.
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Forward  update  “Today’s rally is a declaration of war against the enemies of God and the enemies of religion,” said the Monsey, N.Y.-based Rabbi Yaakov Weiss, who was the protest’s opening and closing speaker. “We hope the evil Zionists will not be successful in destroying our holy Torah studies.”

Speakers used the Yiddish word reshoim, or evil people, to describe Israeli politicians specifically and Zionists generally. And Rabbi Nachman Stauber, who leads a Satmar yeshiva in Queens, made a comparison in his address between Zionists and Amalek, the biblical Jews’ greatest enemy.[...]

The JCRC, which has particularly close ties to the leadership of Satmar in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn, defended the group’s right to protest, but objected to their language. “Sunday’s Foley Square protest against an announced Israeli policy was an expression of free speech,” said Michael Miller, executive vice president and CEO of the JCRC, in a statement issued in response to a Forward inquiry. “However, some of the speakers attempted to outrageously demonize the IDF and the government of Israel. We consider such rhetoric offensive and we categorically condemn it.”[...]

Posters advertising the event, however, suggested a broader anti-Israel message. “The evil rulers in the Holy Land want to incite and seduce young men and teenagers to acquiesce to idol worship and to participate in the impure army,” read Yiddish and Hebrew posters, copies of which were obtained and translated by the Forward.

14 comments :

  1. Hamodia wrote above that "this wasn’t a rally against the legitimacy of the State of Israel. It was a rally in defense of Torah Judaism."

    The RCA's expectation was that the public at large would view the rally as the former and not the latter. Since the event has now taken place, do we know what impact it actually had on the public perception of Israel? If we don't know, wouldn't it be good to investigate?

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  2. Shalom al YisroelJune 28, 2013 at 6:44 PM

    Why is a yeshivishe guy like me on the side of RCA? There is absolutely no merit in the Hamodia rebuttal.
    I would become a card carrying member of the RCA if I had the guts.

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  3. As a Chareidi, I look at these RCA Rabbonim's response with envy. They took the time to defend/explain themselves!! They wrote into a paper that very few of their members, and members congregants read (if any)! They responded to some op-ed!? In contrast, we're all still waiting for a coherent explanation from those Rabonim that went to the protest, what exactly they wanted to accomplish?!? Since not even one onlooker was expected to sympathize with their cause, it seemed then (And still seems now) brain dead!!

    Now to the "issues"...

    The RCA definitely can't be faulted for thinking this was an Anti Isreal rally. THAT IS THE ONLY CAUSE ANYBODY CAN FIND A RECEPTIVE AUDIENCE FOR THIS RALLY IN MANHATTAN. The loss of some blatt Gemorah doesn't seem to carry that much weight by your average Yankee. If someone was chasing another human being with a gun, do we say let's wait and see what he plans on doing with the gun? Or is it reasonable to think he's after murder, because why else would he be pursuit with a gun in his hand? The RCA couldn't think of any other purpose.

    I also couldn't come up with any sensible objective, and still can't. I just didn't come to the same conclusion as the RCA. They understood that the protesters were using the rally as a bargaining chip. It goes like this, "listen here Israeli Government if you don't give us what we want we will whip up some more anti Isreal sentiment". Using the anti Isreal bias as part of any strategy is just wrong, and yes even the Satmar Rebbe would agree.

    2. A majority, and probably ninety percent, where there for an anti Isreal rally. Not as a bargaining chip, Satmar types just don't need a reason to rally against the "Medina".

    3. The comparison to disengagement is startling. That was an issue of international relations, of which America is a major player. A big part of the Sharon argument was to curry international support. Sharon had also, just pulled off the biggest bait-and-switch in history. He got elected as a hawk and then schlepped a large part of the middle right into the peace camp. The American public and politicians thought that this was the will of the Israeli people.

    4. Does anybody seriously think, a rally that the Israeli government should KEEP MORE land is anti Israel?

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    Replies
    1. give credit where credit is due - hamodia published the response. in the latest rosenblum - lipman fiasco, the former wrote his j'accuse in yated, the latter responded in times of israel, and the former than apologized in cross currents.

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  4. the rabbi commercials were very specific against the state of israel, and against zionism.

    the average man in the street sees this as anti jewish, and anti zionist.

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  5. Just listen to the YIDDISH SPEAKERS defame the State of Israel as evil, treif, delegitimizing the State, etc. and you can conclude that it was an ANTI-ISRAEL rally.

    What does Satmar care about this new draft law? or cut-off of funding? It doesn't apply to them or their people. Satmar has never initiated Rallies and Demos for the sake of Klal Yisroel and its tzarus and suddenly it does. WHY? Since it was a perfect venue for their poisonous anti-Israel rhetoric. Sorry that other G'dolim felt the need to attend, our Rabbis & RY gave a 'Red Light'. When the media sees Jews demonstrate against Jews, Israel and its people (& Jews around the world) are harmed, minimized and assaulted.

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  6. Amazingly, almost all the commenters thus far are challenged by reality. If the Forward reports that it wasn't an Anti-Israel rally, & that many times the speakers implored the fringe members of the protest to put away any signs talking about the legality of the state, I'm sure they are saying it to make Chareidim look better. The RCA acted shamefully here, & exposed their true agenda.

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  7. http://forward.com/articles/178568/did-satmars-bite-hand-that-feeds-them-with-anti-is/?p=all

    The above article from the Forward states it was anti Israel. What article are you referring to?!
    ==========================
    Did Satmars Bite Hand That Feeds Them With Anti-Israel Message at Draft Rally?
    Mainstream Jewish Groups Angered by Anti-Zionist Message

    If you needed social services from New York’s fervently pro-Israel mainstream Jewish community, would you organize a tremendous anti-Israel rally in its backyard?

    Despite assurances that it wasn’t their intention to do so, that appears to be exactly what the Satmar Hasidic community did on June 9, when they gathered a reported 30,000 men in lower Manhattan to protest Israeli efforts to draft thousands of ultra-Orthodox men into the army.

    Satmar Hasidim are known for their anti-Zionist theology, but organizers insisted before the protest that they would focus specifically on the Israeli draft. Yet despite a strictly enforced ban on anti-Israel placards, speakers addressing the crowd in Yiddish voiced anti-Zionist sentiment.

    “Today’s rally is a declaration of war against the enemies of God and the enemies of religion,” said the Monsey, N.Y.-based Rabbi Yaakov Weiss, who was the protest’s opening and closing speaker. “We hope the evil Zionists will not be successful in destroying our holy Torah studies.”

    Speakers used the Yiddish word reshoim, or evil people, to describe Israeli politicians specifically and Zionists generally. And Rabbi Nachman Stauber, who leads a Satmar yeshiva in Queens, made a comparison in his address between Zionists and Amalek, the biblical Jews’ greatest enemy.[...]

    The JCRC, which has particularly close ties to the leadership of Satmar in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn, defended the group’s right to protest, but objected to their language. “Sunday’s Foley Square protest against an announced Israeli policy was an expression of free speech,” said Michael Miller, executive vice president and CEO of the JCRC, in a statement issued in response to a Forward inquiry. “However, some of the speakers attempted to outrageously demonize the IDF and the government of Israel. We consider such rhetoric offensive and we categorically condemn it.”

    Event spokesman Michael Tobman insisted prior to the rally that the event was focused on the narrow issue of the draft, and was not broadly anti-Israel. “This is to denounce in the strongest possible terms the misguided impending Israeli policy to conscript and to extend mandatory military service,” Tobman said. “This is about a very specific policy and political issue. It’s just not about that larger meta-ideological schism,” Tobman said, referring to Satmar anti-Zionism.

    Posters advertising the event, however, suggested a broader anti-Israel message. “The evil rulers in the Holy Land want to incite and seduce young men and teenagers to acquiesce to idol worship and to participate in the impure army,” read Yiddish and Hebrew posters, copies of which were obtained and translated by the Forward.









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  8. How embarrassing are these galut Jews. I like even the antizionist Israeli charedim/satmar better than them.

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  9. No, I mean the Forward the author quotes in the rebuttal. I don't get you guys, would you call lapid something other than an evil Zionist? If you do, are you somehow protesting against the legitimacy of the state in the international community?

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    1. If I feel that I must call names in the media, through speeches/schmoozim, and on the radio that is NO COMPARISON to a public, media display of Anti-Israel sentiment.

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  10. Satmar's anti-Torah ideology of sinas chinam and rejecting Eretz Yisrael caused a horrific disaster for the Hungarian Chareidi Jews. American Chareidi Jews need to wake up to the horrific disaster Satmar's ideology might still cause them (chas v'shalom).

    If these Satmar/NK imbeciles really want to protest on behalf of "freedom of religion", let them protest by the Yishmaelite pereh adam & haters of Hashem. These pereh adam behamas declare the Jews to be "mushrikun" (polytheists) for refusing to worship the false moon-god allah.

    Where are the brave Satmar/NK fighters when Hashem's Torah is being defecated on by the jihadist terrorists a thousand times worse than the worst atheist in the Yesh Atid party (if they are atheists at all)? Can the Satmars continue to claim that "Zionism" is causing the mideast conflict when Muslims directly refute them?

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/06/tennessee-imam-jews-and-christians-filthy-their-lives-and-property-can-be-taken-in-jihad-by-the-musl.html

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  11. The RCA is 1000% right,and let me explain,let's imagine for a minute that the Israeli government would have come out in their edict to draft not only the chareidim but also all Arabs,and the PLO would have organized a mass rally in NYC against it,would any jewish organization in their right mind would they have joined their protest,of course not
    because we all know that their agenda is not realy the draft but the very existence of the state,so too in this case where SATMAR organized
    this protest,no normal self respecting jew should have joined,because SATMARS agenda just like the Arabs, is not the draft of yeshiva bachurim,but the very existence and legitimacy of medinas Yisroel,when it comes to hating and trying to undermine and hurt Israel,Satmar and the murderous terrorists have the same agenda.
    CH.S

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  12. The RCA is 1000% right,and let me explain,let's imagine for a minute that the Israeli government would have come out in their edict to draft not only the chareidim but also all Arabs,and the PLO would have organized a mass rally in NYC against it,would any jewish organization in their right mind would they have joined their protest,of course not
    because we all know that their agenda is not realy the draft but the very existence of the state,so too in this case where SATMAR organized
    this protest,no normal self respecting jew should have joined,because SATMARS agenda just like the Arabs, is not the draft of yeshiva bachurim,but the very existence and legitimacy of medinas Yisroel,when it comes to hating and trying to undermine and hurt Israel,Satmar and the murderous terrorists have the same agenda.
    CH.S

    ReplyDelete

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