Tuesday, May 7, 2013

Rav Aharon Feldman says Rabbi Dov Lipman's hashkofa is not that of Yeshiva Ner Yisroel or its former rosh yeshiva

update:May 7 2013
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Today's Hebrew Mishpacha (page 4) reports that Rav Aharon Feldman - the Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva Ner Yisroel in Baltimore - has rejected Rabbi Dov Lipman's assertion that his hashkofa views are that of the yeshiva and in particular that of the former rosh yeshiva Rav Shmuel Yaakov Weinberg zt"l.
ביום חמישי האחרון בעקבות פניה שהגיעה אליו החליט ראש ישיבת "נר ישראל" ומנהיג מועצת גדולי התורה של אגודת ישראל בארצות הברית, הג"ר אהרון פלדמן, להתנער מבוגר הישיבה לחלוטין.

במכתב שנשלח על ידי הגר"א, נאמר כי הישיבה מתנגדת לדרכו של ליפמן ולכל דרך שתמנע את לימוד התורה ממי שחפצה נפשו בכך.  "העמדות וההצהרות של ח"כ ליפמן אינן משקפות בשום אופן את הדעות והחינוך של ישיבת  "נר ישראל" או של ראש ישיבתה לשעבר הגאון  הרב שמואל יעקב ויינברג זצ"ל". כתב הגר"א.  "ישיבתנו מבוססת על היסוד שתלמוד התורה הוא ציפור נפשו של עם ישראלי,' ממשיך הרב פלדמן  במכתבו, "ולכן דעתנו שאין זכות לשום יחיד או  גוף ממשלתי שקורא את עצמו יהודי למנוע בכל  צורה שהיא את המוסרים את נפשם ללימוד התורה".  

"משפחה" פנה לח"כ ליפמן וביקש את תגובתו על  הדברים, אולם תגובתו לא התקבלה עד סגירת הגיליון·

60 comments :

  1. Recipients and PublicityMay 7, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    Welcome move from Rav Feldman shlit"a, but definitely disingenuous because how can Rav Feldman speak for the now deceased Rav Weinberg? about whom there was so much controversy concerning his outspoken unapologetic modern views that Rav Elya Svei zt"l refused to allow him to sit on the American Aguda's Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah!

    Not just that, but Ner Israel actively pushed out Rav Weinberg during the life of Rav Ruderman, and only when Rav Weinberg had nowhere else to go after the closing of the disastrous Kerem yeshiva shutdown in San Francisco was Rav Weinberg allowed to return to Ner Israel in Baltimore, and were it not for the Moetzes injecting itself into internal Ner israel affairs after Rav Ruderman's passing Rav Yaakov Weinberg that he was crowned as rosh yeshiva but still not alalowed to enter the MOetzes.

    Only after Rav Weinberg's death, was Rav Feldman brought in from Israel and reluctantly made rosh yeshiva and given a seat on the Moetzes.

    This entire episode looks like it has the marks of the person from whom Rav Feldman takes orders on the moetzes and perhaps some calls from Israeli Charedim, who obviously want to clip Lipman's wings.

    But there is no doubt that Lipman will defend himself to the full and justly claim that he had Rav Weinberg's haskoma 100%. Even when Rav Elya Svei zt"l was attacking the tactics of Aish HaTorah where the Weinbergs reigned supreme, both Yakov and Noach Weinberg did as they pleased and ignored the right-wing Charedim.

    De ja vu, Dov Lipman should have know what was coming had a known a little about what happened to other enlightened rabbis such as Natan Slifkin and Noson Kaminetsky. In the case of Slifkin, Rav Feldman first supported him and then was forced to withdraw his support, so even Rav Feldman is not a free agent on the hashkofic battlefront.

    Too bad no gadol on the level of Rav feldman from the Moetzes came out against Leib Tropper at the height of the EJF scandals. Seems Rav Feldman wants to make sure that the whole Ner Israel yeshiva does not get blacklisted once and for all in the eyes of Charedim.

    But no doubt about, this is a big blow to Lipman's standing in th frum world. But it would appear it has come too late because Lipman is now flying high and probably will not lose sleep over yet another Charedi move against him.

    In the meantime Lipman is on a roll big time, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzxkDkcxggw "MK Rabbi Dov Lipman meets Governor Martin O'Malley of Maryland" (8 minutes posted by M Dov Lipma) where they discuss Silver Spring, Maryland, Ner Yisrael, Rabbi Neuburger and aspects of Rabbi Lipman's life, and then followed by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ2n6FRNPLg "MK Rabbi Dov Lipman welcomes Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley to Israel" (5 minutes).

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    1. Ner Yisroel talmidJuly 17, 2013 at 1:54 PM

      Allowed to return to Ner Yisroel!!! Are we on the same planet! the R"Y
      Ztz"l RSY"W was giving shiur kllali more times than RAV RUDERMAN
      ZTZ"L from 5735 and on wards until R"R petirah. He and R"R BOTH!
      went to Santa Clara Cal. to help their grandson/son Rav Matis. Rav Naftoli Neuberger z"l protested RE"Shvai's ztz"l shunning of the Rosh Yeshiva Rav SY"Weinberg ztz"l. Disagreements amongst gedolim are none of my business because they did not confer with a simple person like myself for agreement.I leave those issues for their 4 amos. I have yet to read a more blasphemous
      form of h---gwash/narishkeit from someone who pretends to be a ben Torah yet takes the liberty to say so much motzey shayme rah.Oy lecho miyom hadin oy lecho miyom hatoichocho!

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  2. Recipients and PublicityMay 7, 2013 at 12:31 PM

    Re: "update: Hear Rav Feldman strongly denounce Rabbi Lipman" where Rav Feldman openly states that Rabbi Lipman is a "shona uperish" (someone who learned Torah but then separated/removed himself from it) and point blank a "rosha" (wicked) for saying on Israel Radio that he would shut down the yeshiva ketanos (the high schools) in Israel for not teaching "limudei chol" secular studies. Furthermore, continues Rav Feldman, that this fits in with all the enemies of the Jews from the times of "Amalek". And now in Eretz Yisrael the enemies of Torah want to "undermine everything" while claiming they "love" the Charedim when in fact they hate them and they hate the Torah. These are indeed very strong words from Rav Feldman HIMSELF (separate from what his predecessor Rav Yaakov Weinberg z'l may or may not have believed or taught or said) and since Rav Feldman is speaking for himself and he is the rosh yeshiva of Ner Yisrael, it pulls the rug from under Rabbi Dov Lipman. Now it remains to be seen if Rav Feldman and the people at Ner Yisroel will have the guts to ask Rabbi Lipman to return his rabbinical diploma (semicha) and thus defrock him and turn him into just plain Mr. Dov Lipman, but then he can probably get semicha from one of many rabbinical admirers by now.

    There must be a LOT of very disappointed people in the Ner Yisroel and the Aish Hatorah worlds that are not happy campers right now seeing their hero Dov Lipman being publicly defanged by Rav Feldman. No wonder they fought to keep Rav Feldman out of Ner Israel after Rav Yaakov Weinberg';s passing, but now he is proving to be the very insurance policy that gives them some semblance of credibility in the Charedi world because there are many, many more "Dov Lipmans" from Ner Yisroel and Aish HaTorah out in the world right now biting their lips.

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    1. Ner Yisrael under Rabbi Weinberg and Ner Yisrael under Rabbi Feldman have nothing to do with each other. Talmidim of Rabbi Weinberg don't really care what Rabbi Feldman has to say, and Rabbu Feldman's supporters would not approve of many of the dei'os of Rabbi Weinberg (if they were aware of them).

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    2. RAP, I checked the comments on this post because I anticipated your contribution on the biography of R Weinberg ztl.

      If we are completely honest, R Weinberg was essentially an MO or at least Hirschian Gadol and Rosh Yeshiva. For me, coming from the more M side of O, obviously I found him to be a brilliant and intellectuality forthright scholar. In some ways he was more controversial than even some left leaning MO Rabbis. So it is no surprise that R' Svei (who, as we discussed previously ha no love for the MO) would keep him out of the Moetzes.
      But if R' Feldman denies that (R?) Lipman is continuing R Weinberg's derech, then obviously it makes R Weinberg something to respect (in anti-Lipman circles).

      What is sad to see, however, is the yeridot hadorot - the 2 big yeshivot of USA are longer have real Giants leading them.

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  3. Rav Aharon Feldman says Rabbi Dov Lipman's hashkofa is not that of Yeshiva Ner Yisroel or its former rosh yeshiva.

    According to my sources in Baltimore, Rav Aharon Feldman's hashkofa is not that of Yeshiva Ner Yisroel or its former rosh yeshiva.

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    1. Nosson-
      Please leave your personal vendetta against R Feldman oput if this. There is noone who knew R Weinberg who beleives he'd approve of Lipman. For all of R Weinberg's 'liberal' views, he was a stauch supoporter of Rav Shach. He would be puking at Lipman's statements...

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    2. Rabbi Slikfin I second the comments of Observer. While there clearly is a major difference between Rav Felman and Rav Weinberg - I doubt if you will find anyone who says that Rabbi Lipman's views are those of Rav Weinberg. Do you know anyone who claims they are the same or even similar?

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    3. Natan never claimed that Lipman's views are those of Weinberg. He simply said that Feldman's views are not those of Weinberg. You seem to agree with that statement.

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    4. As James said, I never claimed that Rabbi Lipman's view are those of Rabbi Weinberg; I have no idea if they are or aren't. My point was only that Rav Aharon Feldman's hashkofa is not that of Yeshiva Ner Yisroel or its former rosh yeshiva.

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    5. Agree with James.

      Rav Feldman, don't forget, was the founder of EY's English language Yated, which was notorious for the viciousness of its attacks on anyone who did not toe Rav Shach's party line.

      It was also known for how it would distort its enemies words so as to make them even more open to attack.

      On that note, I am curious to know what evidence exists that Lipman ever said that he wanted to "close down" all the yeshiva ketanas in yerushalayim.

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    6. "As James said, I never claimed that Rabbi Lipman's view are those of Rabbi Weinberg; I have no idea if they are or aren't. My point was only that Rav Aharon Feldman's hashkofa is not that of Yeshiva Ner Yisroel or its former rosh yeshiva."

      If that's the case, your comment has nothing to do with the matter at hand, and just strengthens the svara that you're just lashing out at R. Feldman.

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  4. the real questionMay 7, 2013 at 2:02 PM

    The real question which should be posed to Rav Feldman is this: Why hasn't NY revoked Lipman's semicha? When one receives semicha from NY, they make you sign a document saying that if you do anything contrary to the yeshiva's hashkafos, they can take away your semicha. They have actually done this a few times, the most recent in the case of a recalcitrant husband who refused to give his wife a get.

    Lipman is far from charedi, but his claim to fame is true- that he has semicha from a charedi yeshiva. If NY would pull that semicha, it would take the wind out of his sails.....

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    1. Ner Israel should agree to financially support all the charedim in Israel. Then the Israeli taxpayer won't be upset and the charedim will have lots of money and never need to work.

      Just raise the tuition on the current Ner Israel student body to whatever it takes. Demand all Ner Israel alumni donate all their savings to the yeshiva that they need to keep the charedim in Israel from working. A total cherem should be placed on any Ner Israel graduate who lives at all over the poverty level until the charedim get all the money they desire.

      Because Torah study is more important than anything else Ner Israel and its students, Rabbeim and alumni should be ready to take any sacrifice needed to keep them learning with no job whatsoever.

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  5. While I can't say that I know Rav Yaakov Weinberg ZT"L well, I did have the Zechus to meet with him and discuss several issues of Hashkafah. From my interaction with him I would be hard pressed to see him support Lipman's views.

    Here is where I think Lipman is off base. The tent of Klal Yisrael is broad and wide and has room from people who devote their entire lives to exclusive Torah study and who make Toraso Umnaso, who maximize their Torah study while pursuing a livelihood. It is also broad enough for those who see a "value" in Limudim Chitzonios (no matter if it is for Parnasah or not) and those who do not see the value and are even openly antagonistic to it. BTW, it is interesting to note that while I agree with much of what Rav Feldman Shlit"a said, his argument would have never been as convincing had he not had a secular education and a command of the English language. But this is the point.. Lipman is wrong because he presents himself with Gaavah and is trying to IMPOSE his world-view on the rest of Klall Yisrael. He is wrong because the "objective" of Limud Hatorah is NOT to produce Rabbanim and thereby to subjected to a quota... it is a way of life "Ke Heim Chayainu", and for those that see it as the only way of life, he is undermining the Torah itself!

    The solution here (Laaniyas Daati), is to grow the Torah Im Derech Eretz approach from within. Rav Hirsch would never have tried or sanctioned the forcing of his model on the rest of Klal Yisrael, quite the opposite is true. We need to support the "Torah only" institutions while we expand and grow the "Torah Im Derech Eretz" institutions and provide an option for 2 legitimate derachim for Klal Yisrael to follow.

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  6. Pulling semicha is not simple, fair or the best way to deal with so called 'opponents'. Charedi- LITE has arrived in Israel, is gaining strongholds in many areas and will be another voice of Toras hashem sooner rather than later. There is time for some relationship building.

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  7. I don't understand Mishpacha's comment re R' Weinberg. I listed to the piece twice and I heard R' Feldman call Dov a shona uperish but didn't hear him mention R' Weinberg. As I've said many times, I'm not sure that R' Weinberg has anything to do with this because he was not the easiest man to get to know. You had to really work at it.

    R' Feldman seemed to not be happy to be having to say this, but he was doing his job. Is it me, or does RaP seem to have some glee in his words. Even if you disagree with Dov, I don't see how having a rosh yeshiva call you a shona uperish is cause for happiness.

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  8. Did Lipman really say he wanted to close down all the yeshiva ketanas in yerushalayim?

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    1. He didn't exactly say that. He said on kol barama radio, that they don't deserve funding if they don't keep the law to learn LIBA subjects. (Which means that they will close down.)

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  9. Interestingly enough, Rav Feldman gave a haskama to Lipmans book: http://rabbilipman.com/books.php

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  10. What is done to or about R' Lipman doesn't seem to be relevant to the main problem that Chareidim are easily outmaneuvered politically and have few allies in the government.

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  11. So Rabbi Lipman is being compared to Amalek for wanting the Israeli government to teach Israeli kids to be good at English and math?

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  12. Well, it's not the first time:
    http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2013/05/who-represents-ner-israel.html

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  13. IN DEFENSE OF RAV YAAKOV WEINBERG, ZTL

    It is so, so unfortunate that Rav Yaakov is being dragged into the Lipman mess.

    I was very close to Rav Yaakov. He was open-minded, and not party line. Unlike many Rabbanim, you never knew what he would hold about an issue until you asked him and heard his answer. Yes, he had disagreements with Rav Svei, and Rav Elya seems to have kept him off the Moetzes as a result, but Rav Yaakov in no way, shape, or form ever espoused MO views. Though not on the Agudah Moetzes, Rav Yaakov was an active member and big influence in the Torah U'Mesorah Rabbinic Board and a tremendous force at their conventions. Talmidim from other yeshivos always flocked to him at the convention when they heard the emes and force of his chiddushim and guidance.

    I once asked Rav Yaakov what I should do to help him in his disagreement with Rav Elya Svei. Rav Yaakov said no one should do anything because Rav Elya means it all l'shem Shamayim.

    One thing that Lipman for sure missed in being in Ner Yisrael and listening to Rav Yaakov was ASEH LECHA RAV. Rav Yaakov talked about that constantly. Lipman is doing all of his controversial moves without any Rebbe guiding him. In fact, he dissed such a concept in a recent interview. He said he doesn't have to ask a Rav in these areas of his life. He doesn't care that ALL Gedolim are against him.

    In the mid 90's, Rav Yaakov once went to Eretz Yisrael, spent a couple of hours there, and then flew right back. His purpose? He was on the verge of possibly making a controversial decision and he went to ask Rav Elyashiv. Rav Elyashiv told him not to do it, and Rav Yaakov listened.

    Rav Yaakov constantly spoke about asking and listening to Daas Torah. Lipman recently trashed the concept of Daas Torah in a published interview that you can see on line.

    Rav Yaakov was a creative and open minded thinker. He had many new ideas. But he always asked Daas Torah before going through with any of them.

    The last Rav which Lipman had, Rav Avishai David, in RBS, recently publicly denounced Lipman's stances and actions.

    This is the main problem with Lipman. He has no Rav and he doesn't care to have one.

    All neg. info mentioned here about Rav Yaakov is motz shem ra.

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    1. He has a rav. His name is Yair Lapid. In his eyes, Lapid is a righteous tinok shenishba, never wanting to attack charedim, and always seeking their good. Whatever Lapid says or does, is Kodesh for him, as Lapid would never hurt a fly. Just check out his facebook page, and see how he idolizes him.

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    2. So James, you're the final authority on R' Weinberg, are you? Well, I was a talmid and was close with him, calling him regularly after I left yeshiva. I won't say that my view of him is authoritative, just different from yours. I would characterize him as being someone who didn't impose his view on others, but rather made suggestions, and always allowed the talmid to challenge and question his opinions. What Rav Weinberg would have said about the current political atmosphere in Israel is absolutely impossible to know. The fact is there are no more Rav Shach's in E"Y. If Rav Weinberg were alive today, people would be coming to him instead of the other way around. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but please don't pontificate on what our rosh yeshiva would have done or said and use that to bash R' Dov.

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    3. "He doesn't care that ALL Gedolim are against him."

      No, just the Charedi Gedolim.

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    4. R' David does not live in RBS; he lives on Rechov Shimon in Bet Shemesh.

      I don't know whether the rest of your facts are equally inaccurate, or whether this was an insignificant typo.

      Caveat emptor.

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    5. Yes, I meant to correct the typo that Rav Avishai David lives in Bet Shemesh proper, not in Ramat.

      It is 100% clear that Rav Yaakov would be against what Dov is doing because Dov has no Rebbe and is anti-asking a Rebbe. Rav Yaakov always told all his talmidim, you need to have a Rebbe and ask Daas Torah.

      Again, Rav Avishai, his former Rav until Dov joined with Lapid, spoke out strongly against Dov.

      ALL Gedolim are against Dov and Yesh Atid. Please name a non-charedi Gadol who supports them.

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    6. Perhaps you should name a non-charedi gadol who oppose them. They all -- including chardali-leaning figures such as R' Shlomo Aviner -- pretty much support Bayit HaYehudi, which is clearly of one mind with Yesh Atid when it comes to sharing the national burden.

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    7. So you're saying, sort of, though Rav Aviner hasn't actually said it. . .you're saying that Dov's Rebbe is Rav Aviner? He wouldn't tell you that and he has never spoken to Rav Aviner.

      If Dov had stopped saying he was charedi and put on a kipa seruga after he joined with lapid, I don't think he'd be getting all this attention. . .his problem is he claims to be charedi. . .

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    8. Who exactly is Rabbi Feldman's Rav??? He has no Rav. If he did have one, one would go directly to him and demand that tell Rabbi Feldman to apologize for his wickedness.

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  14. I am 100 % against Lipman and his attempt to "kasher" Yesh Atid and give it a veneer of credibility to have a frum Jew on board. Needless to say I am against that evil leftist enemy-loving party.

    But so what? He can have his own hashkafa. He is not beholden to Ner Yisrael or the hashkafa of his rav/former rav ZT'L. He's a free thinking individual Jew and is free to believe as he sees fit, even if I think he's mistaken and I hold a different hashkafa.

    The whole condemnation of someone as "that's not what his yeshiva taught" or "that's not so-and-so's hashkafa" is pitiful and absurd. How about explaining what he is doing wrong and what's wrong about it (ie, sharing your own contrary hashkafa) or else don't say anything at all. Invoking authority of the unknown and ephemeral Mighty Hashkafa from On High doesn't work.

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    1. RF did explain it quite well and Dov has been alluding that Rav Yaakov Weinberg would support him in Dov's speeches. That's what made RF speak out

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  15. Recipients and PublicityMay 8, 2013 at 9:24 AM

    Rav Yaakov Weinberg z"l fit no mold.

    When you heard him speak there were times he sounded like a Satmar Chosid (no surprise there because he WAS related and descended from the Slonimer Rebbes who also have the family name Weinberg! See: Slonim (Hasidic dynasty), and he was a very proud disciple of Rav Yitzchok Hutner zt"l and was familiar with the latter's neo-Chasidic Pachad Yitzchok ma'amorim and seforim.)

    At other times Rav Weinberg could sound like a carbon copy of Rav J.B. Soloveitchik the greatest MO rabbi with his love of the RAMBAM and the way he defied conventional "frum" thinking. Not surprsing that at one point Rav Weinberg's younger son Rabbi Simcha Weinberg took over the flagship MO Lincoln Square Synagogue as rabbi outmoderning the moderns there, hameivin yavin. While his older son Rav Matis Weinberg has been a maverick genius rabbi who has been banned by the Litvish gedolim from holding any titles or positions yet still manages to circulate and teach the most ultra of modern way out things about "the Jewish view of sex" and you name it (supported by his father and was one of the issues that drove Rav Elya Svei zt"l against them as a family).

    Both of Rav Yaakov Weinberg's sons are basically BANNED from NIRC, their cousins the Neubergers are the bosses, one big reason being that they are way to the left of even Ner Yisroel and their late father's stance. Behind the scenes though they are connected and still work with Aish HaTorah that likes that kind of coll approach that a guy like Lipman fits in with quite easily as well.

    By the same token he was the one and only son in law of Rav Yitzchok Yaakov Ruderman who was unique among the Slabodka talmidim of the Alter of Slabodka, who when he (Rav Ruderman) came to Baltimore and established the Yeshiva Ner Yisroel (NIRC) in Baltimore together with his brother in law Rabbi Herman N. Neuberger, they set about to create the premier out-of-town yeshiva in America based on the reality that parents who send the sons to this institution for high school and beyond want their sons to recive the best secular education together with a good yeshiva education. Rav Ruderman made an official deal with the Catholic Loyola College for recognition of joint courses for talmidei hayeshiva for which Rav Aron Kotler reputedly rebuked him as an "APIKORUS" even though they were related to each other and were personally on good terms!

    Rav Ruderman and Rabbi Neuberger, together with Rav Yaakov Weinebreg pursued a VERY liberal policy in the yeshiva by allowing, actually encouraging all talmidim to go to college to become better out of town rabbis and educators in Jewish day schools. The Ner Israel crowd thus became NOT "yeshivish" to this very day and Rabbi Dov Lipman is being true to this education. Nothing new here except that Lipman now has a bully-pulpit of his own. Ner Israel and there allied Aish HaTorah rabbis have never been yeshivish. They are basically proudly pro-Zionist.

    When Rav Yaakov Weinberg passed away, the Litvish gedolim in the American Moetzes FORCED the Neubergers to accept Rav Feldman. They did not like it but the deal was sweetened that he would sit on the Moetzes unlike Rav Weinberg. Bottom line, Rav Feldman does NOT represent anything about NIRC beyond its stationary and the round goes to the bloodied but still standing Lipman because all that is now coming forth from the Charedi camp is the politics of personal destruction, vitriol and wildness rather than rational discussion, another sign that Charedim do not have any plan or response to the reality of being outsiders in the Israeli political world right now.

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    1. That's very interesting. Also, Rav Hutner wanted to set up some Yeshiva/University type institution but was stopped by R Kotler. The reason I called R Weinberg (and by implication R Rudeman) "MO" was that they supported secular education. R Schiller of Ohr Sameach is also a Ner Alumni, and he said he went to night school while learning at yeshiva, to get a degree.

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    2. All information, well, not all, but 90% of what Recipients writes is false. I just don't have the time right now to go blow by blow. But the reg. reader should just know. Maybe later, I'll go blow by blow when I have time.

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    3. If your def. of MO is support of secular education, so the Lubavitcher Rebbe was also MO and a host of others that in no way fit the def. of MO

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    4. Rabbi MM Schneersohn when he was living in Berlin and France, and studying secular subjects in colleges and universities was MO, as was R' Soloveitchik. As a Rebbe, he didn't encourage his yeshiva students to study in Uni in parallel to their limmudim.
      Now, Ohr Sameach are not MO, and they frequently bash the MOs. However, once youhave a parallel Y and U programme, whether internal or external, then the genie has left the bottle, since R Shach forbade all secular academic studies.

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    5. Ner Yisroel talmidJuly 17, 2013 at 1:57 PM

      Encouraging ALL! talmidim to go to college!!! Those who bedieved wanted to go to college were allowed to do so. Those
      shenafshom choshku beTorah were greatly discouraged from going
      to college and greatly encouraged to stay in learning. I learned in the Bais HaMedrash for 3 and a 1/2 years and never went to college!

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  16. 'Recipients and Publicity"
    You wrote; "Both of Rav Yaakov Weinberg's sons are basically BANNED from NIRC, their cousins the Neubergers are the bosses, one big reason being that they are way to the left of even Ner Yisroel and their late father's stance."

    The Neubergers did not push them out, they pushed themselves out for a whole host of reasons!

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  17. RaP: "Ner Israel and there allied Aish HaTorah rabbis have never been yeshivish. They are basically proudly pro-Zionist."

    Seriously, that is just amoratzus. I don't know about Aish, because I never learned there but that was never the case at Ner Israel. One could say that they have never been yeshivish (ignoring the presence of people like Rav Kulefsky, Rav Berkowitz, Rav Eisemann, Rav Eisenberg, etc.) but they aren't proudly pro-Zionist.

    I don't know (or, honestly, really care about) Simcha Weinberg but I know the story you're referring to. I just don't understand why you feel the need to bash other people in trying to persuade them. People, let us all know the seif of Shulchan Aruch that tells us how character assassination is OK. You disagree with Dov, so fine, but you really are over the top in your efforts to tarnish the late rosh yeshiva by association with Dov. As had been said many times on this blog, with him there really is no way to know what he would think unless directly asked.

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    1. Regarding Ner Israel being pro-Zionist. I spoke with one of Rav Ruderman's relatives who lives in Har Nof. He mentioned he spent a summer at Ner Israel with Rav Ruderman. He told me that in his many talks with Rav Ruderman it was clear that Rav Ruderman was supportive of making aliyah etc but he never once heard him say such publicly. He asked him why when he seemed to be so pro Israel (in the Zionistic sense) did he refrain from mentioning it to his many students. Rav Ruderman responded that a leader has to know when not say things. He felt that the Ner Israel population would not want to hear this and so remained silent.

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    2. There is a shift in the meaning of Zionism by now. The old Satmar arguments are defunct. The instruction of the Satmar rebeb to not go to the liberated Kotel is laughable. The Eida is pragmatic, and has to collaborate with the Rabbanut to market its hechser products in State supermarkets.
      The claims agasint the IDF have disappeared, and haredim see it as a legitimate army. Ok, Yom haatzmaut is not celebrated in Yeshivish circles, but not everything can happen overnight.

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    3. That is fascinating. I interpreted RaP's words as "pro-Zionist" as also a political bent, but not just living in Eretz Yisroel. But I never heard discussions of either while at the yeshiva. That still doesn't strike me as "proudly pro-Zionist."

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  18. From the Times of Israel:

    Lipman . . said the rabbi’s comments misrepresented his true position. He doesn’t seek to close Haredi high schools but merely calls for them to teach math and English in addition to Torah.

    My question: So, Rav Feldman never checked it out and was calling him a rasha for having said something that he never said? Or, was it that Rav Feldman had checked it out and Lipman did say it, but did not mean it?

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    1. Your problem Dov is you have no Rebbe, and you trashed the idea of having a Rebbe in a recent interview. You also generally trashed yeshivos and what they learn in that interview and you spoke very arrogantly there about since you couldn't learn full time for more than a year, it must be no one can.

      New ideas and proposals are one thing to shmues about but to practically go against every Gadol in the world-even non-charedi Gedolim do not support you-is so anti-Torah and derech hayashar.

      Please provide a recording of what you said on Israeli radio so we all can judge if what RF said is accurate or not.

      I imagine what you prob. said was in response to a question from the interviewer:

      "Dov, if the gov't defunds the yeshivos keatanos that don't follow your rules, these yeshivos will close."

      And you prob. said, "So, let them close."

      I admit I do not know exactly what you said, but I do know that RF would not quote you if you hadn't said it. So, let's hear the recording. Please post it on the web.

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    2. Are you claiming that "Dovid" is Dov Lipman?

      If so, how would you possibly know that?

      And are you also admitting to you yourself being one of the charedi players in this dispute, commenting here under a pseudonym?

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  19. I spent shabbos at Rabbi Lipman's house a while back, 14 years ago. He had a picture of just him and Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg together. He told me that he and Rabbi Weinberg were close.

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    1. Also, there is no way that Rabbi Lipman is a rasha, as Rabbi Feldman implied or said. He's the opposite.

      I have to assume that there is some misunderstanding here between Rabbi Feldman and Rabbi Lipman. Hopefully, they'll straighten it out.

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    2. They were close. That's what makes Dov's going off so disappointing.

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  20. dov lipman's response:
    http://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=37755

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  21. http://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=37755

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  22. OMG, you mean a Rosh Yeshiva publicly condemned someone and called him a rosha without having verified that the person ever said what was attributed to him?

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    1. Dov, Please provide a recording of what you said on Israeli radio so we all can judge if what RF said is accurate or not.

      I imagine what you prob. said was in response to a question from the interviewer:

      "Dov, if the gov't defunds the yeshivos keatanos that don't follow your rules, these yeshivos will close."

      And you prob. said, "So, let them close."

      I admit I do not know exactly what you said, but I do know that RF would not quote you if you hadn't said it. So, let's hear the recording. Please post it on the web.

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  23. Do the two (Rabbis Feldman and Lipman) differ all that much? Does R Feldman really believe young men in Israel should disassociate with the state and be on the programs as a rule?

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  24. Recipients and PublicityMay 14, 2013 at 12:37 AM

    1 of 2: UPDATE:

    Rav Aron Feldman revises his comments and issues qualified apology, hear the audio posted on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxww1ex8G2I
    (9 minutes)

    (See: Prior post at "Rav Aharon Feldman says Rabbi Dov Lipman's hashkofa is not that of Yeshiva Ner Yisroel or its former rosh yeshiva" (May 7, 2013))

    From Vos Iz Neies:

    http://www.vosizneias.com/130657/2013/05/09/baltimore-md-rosh-yeshiva-publicly-retracts-statements-calling-lipman-a-rasha

    Baltimore, MD - Rosh Yeshiva Publicly Retracts Statements Calling Lipman A "Rasha"

    Published on: May 9th, 2013

    Baltimore, MD - R' Aharon Feldman, Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Israel, issued an apology of sorts to Knesset member Rabbi Dov Lipman, after condemning Lipman for his remarks on revamping the Israeli chinuch system by adding English and math classes.

    As previously reported on VIN News, R' Feldman had been incorrectly told that Lipman had suggested closing any yeshiva that did not offer a basic secular education and responded by calling Lipman a "rasha" and a "shana u'pirush". Lipman later clarified that he had been misquoted and had suggested that the government withhold funds from yeshivos that do not teach English and math and had never said that any yeshiva should be closed.

    Audio obtained from BaltimoreJewishLife.com of a Yom Kippur Katan shmooze given today by R' Feldman in Ner Israel has the Rosh Yeshiva retracting his earlier words and publicly acknowledging that while Lipman should not be categorized as a "rasha" he was "definitely wrong and misguided."

    "The other day I called Dov Lipman...a rasha for supporting this movement," said R' Feldman speaking about some of the conflict in Israel. "Since then he wrote me a letter, explaining himself that he means l'shem shomayim, that he is trying to strengthen Torah in his view and therefore, since he is a shogeg, his sincerity came across in the letter, I cannot call him a rasha and I retract my statement and I apologize to him for calling him a rasha and I am happy that Baruch Hashem we have a talmid in our yeshiva who is not a rasha. But, however, he is extremely misguided."

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  25. Recipients and PublicityMay 14, 2013 at 12:38 AM

    2 of 2: UPDATE:

    (continued)

    From Vos Iz Neies:

    http://www.vosizneias.com/130657/2013/05/09/baltimore-md-rosh-yeshiva-publicly-retracts-statements-calling-lipman-a-rasha

    Baltimore, MD - Rosh Yeshiva Publicly Retracts Statements Calling Lipman A "Rasha"

    R' Feldman voiced his unequivocal opposition to Lipman's plan to teach secular courses in Israeli yeshivos, saying that even though the practice may be done in America, it is has no place in Israel.

    "Yeshiva ketanas, the high schools in Eretz Yisroel are institutions where teenagers are imbued yomam v'layla, learning Torah, that is the cradle of the gedolei Torah of the future....this is the system, this is the way. By introducing limudei chol you are destroying the atmosphere of kedusha in these yeshiva ketanas, the total atmosphere of kedusha, even though we do it in America, it is at a cost in America also and it is a different society in America, different reasons and you can't compare the two societies...introducing limudei chol two hours, or an hour even...will tear down the structure of the yeshiva ketana...when I said that Dov Lipman is trying to tear down the yeshiva ketana because that is what he is advocating."

    R' Feldman went on to explain that he was misquoted and never compared Lipman to Haman and Amalek.

    "Chas v'shalom. I said that just like all the attackers of the Torah in the past have gone under, so this party will go under also like Haman and Amalek. They are attacking Torah, they'll go under, there will be no zecher of them. Just wait around a little bit and you will see there is nothing left of them...any antagonist of Torah does not have a kiyum."

    R' Feldman made it clear that despite his apology, he was in no way backing down from his opposition to Lipman's plan.

    "I want to set the record straight on that , but in no way do I with less vigor oppose what he is saying, I just see now that he is mistaken..simple he doesn't know the facts, he hasn't thought it through well."

    R' Feldman criticized Lipman for not seeking rabbinical guidance before making his statement.

    " We should discuss these things with gedolei Torah... He is definitely wrong, misguided and very sorrowful that he is engaged in this. I suggest highly to him that he consult other people, that he resign from the party... He does mean l'shem shomayim, I saw from his letter. The best course for him is to consult gedolei Torah, resign from the party and make a big kiddush Hashem

    Rav Feldman's latest audio:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxww1ex8G2I "

    ReplyDelete

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