YNet A Holon resident jailed for "get refusal" since 2007 escaped on Wednesday from the Jerusalem Rabbinical Court during a debate regarding a possible divorce agreement.
The man, 40-year-old Shay Cohen, apparently climbed out of a bathroom window on the second floor and ran off. Police are currently searching for him with the aid of a helicopter. [...]
Israel's Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi Yona Metzger, sitting on the rabbinical judges panel, urged Cohen to turn himself in. "We've reached agreements after six years of suffering for your wife. Your way to freedom is short, turn yourself in and we'll find solutions," Metzger said. [...]
Cohen and his wife have been separated for more than 12 years.
I heard from senior rabbonim in Israel that there is a problem with the rabbonut that it jails husbands and forces them to give a GET. This is a GET MEUSO.
ReplyDeleteThis was actually my thought when I read the story. Does the fact that it is a Jewish commonwealth with its own legal system make it different? Obviously I don't expect a haredi spokesperson to agree with this. The Religious Zionists have an argument that according to derashot Haran, there is a system of King's Law, which is outside of the regular Torah law. This, they argue applies to the State today.
Deletejust imagine -- Israeli helicoptors in search of this escaped villain. For what??
DeleteMetzger talks about her suffering. Any thoughts whatsoever about his?
Rabbi Yona Metzger was hand selected by Rav Elyashiv! You can not claim to speak in his name and attack his hand selected students.
DeleteJames, Metzger has several problems:
Deletea) He was allegedly involved in various scandals, financial and sexual, allegations made around the time of his election
b) he is not qualified as a Dayan, and cannot make halachic decisions
c) he was not selected for his gadlus, since he doesn't have any. He was a puppet Rabbi.
d) he was once a messianic, calling the rebbe melech Hamoshiach (I cant remember if it was before or after the rebbe's passing).
e) the cynics say that R Elyashiv chose Metger in order to destroy the Rabbanut, something he has had some success in achieving.
Yeah I'm really confused. Why did Rav Eliashiv write in support of the law:
Deleteאוסף פסקי דין של הרבנות הראשית לא"י עמ' נד
And why did his political party vote in favor of expanding it's powers in 2005? Does UTJ not represent Chareidi interests?
Also in Israel this step(against men) is extremely rare. According to Rabbinut statistics only 18% of the divorces they process have men who are refusing Gittin, as opposed to 21% of them having women who are refusing Gittin.
Further, it should be noted that Rabbinut's ability to force a Get, starts with relatively light measures such as a travel ban, and then escalates through several steps over a course of years until it comes to imprisonment. That being said, last year there were only 10 men and 12 women that they felt the need to take any of these steps with.
This phrase I heard from senior rabbonim in Israel doesn't work. If you want to be taken seriously you are going to have to name names. Especially considering the various actual senior Rabbanim who have expressed their support for this law in writing and through their political parties.
James, Metzger has several problems:
Deletea) He was allegedly involved in various scandals, financial and sexual, allegations made around the time of his election
I never heard about the sexual stuff, and to my recollection that wasn't what was trotted out around the election. What they brought up then was his charging too much for weddings and selling segulot(which was looked upon very differently by everyone 10yrs ago).
b) he is not qualified as a Dayan, and cannot make halachic decisions
That's not true. He is not a Rav HaIr, having never passed the Rabbinut exams on milah and geirut, so he could not officiate gerut. However, he is a Dayyan(Dayyanim in Israel don't by necessity learn Gerut). However he is a qualified Rav(meaning he can be psak halakha in the areas that he has learned). Hence he has spent the entirety of his term in Rabbinut running the Kashrut division(in which there have been several improvements during his term).
c) he was not selected for his gadlus, since he doesn't have any. He was a puppet Rabbi.
That is a possibilitty.
d) he was once a messianic, calling the rebbe melech Hamoshiach (I cant remember if it was before or after the rebbe's passing).
Proof please, that he was either a messianic or a mashiachist(those are by the way two different things).
e) the cynics say that R Elyashiv chose Metger in order to destroy the Rabbanut, something he has had some success in achieving.
Cynics say lots of stuff, that's why they are cynics.
Sex scandal ensnares Ashkenazi chief rabbi
Deleteby NAOMI SEGAL, Jewish Telegraphic Agency
Follow j. on and
JERUSALEM -- Israel's new Ashkenazi chief rabbi is facing growing calls to step down amid allegations of misconduct.
The allegations center on sexual harassment charges against Yona Metzger, as well as charges that he engaged in fraud and is not qualified for the post.
Aides to Metzger have rejected the allegations as a smear campaign fueled by political rivals.
Metzger and his Sephardi counterpart, Rabbi Shlomo Amar, were elected as Israel's chief rabbis April 14 by a 150-member public committee.
Since then, however, opposition to Metzger has grown. In the latest development, a Tel Aviv accountant filed a petition Monday in the High Court of Justice challenging Metzger's appointment. It will be heard by a three-judge panel.
The petition claims that allegations of fraud and other improprieties involving Metzger were not fully investigated because of his 1998 pledge not to stand for chief rabbi of Tel Aviv.
Metzger's spokesman, Roni Rimon, told the Israeli daily Ma'ariv that the petition was full of "lies, lies and more lies" produced by "professional slanderers."
Metzger had been accused of forging witnesses' signatures on marriage contracts and unlawfully demanding payment for performing weddings, the daily Ha'aretz reported.
As a result of the allegations, Metzger's permit to serve as a chief rabbi of a major city was revoked. However, it was reinstated several months later after a hearing before three senior Israeli rabbis -- including Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron, a former Sephardi chief rabbi -- who accepted Metzger's explanations and his commitment to leave the Tel Aviv race, the paper said.
The petition also argues that the Metzger, 50, who previously was rabbi of north Tel Aviv, was not qualified to fill the chief rabbi's duties as head of the country's rabbinic court system because he never had been a religious judge or rabbi of a major city.
The petition maintained that the elections committee for the chief rabbi was not adequately informed of the misconduct allegations against Metzger.
In related development, Ma'ariv recently published what it said were sexual harassment allegations involving Metzger.
Three weeks before Metzger's election as chief rabbi, the paper reported, it learned of complaints from four adult men who claimed Metzger had touched their arms, legs and chests and expressed admiration for their muscular physiques.
Aides to Metzger categorically denied the allegations, pointing to polygraph tests Metzger took dispelling the allegations.
Metzger aides accused "well-known rabbinical sources" who they said were stooping low "after earlier accusations of chasing women failed.''
The controversy comes against the backdrop of the contested election that preceded Metzger's appointment to the post.
A few hours before the vote, Israel's attorney general unsuccessfully asked the elections board to disqualify Metzger because of new information he had received
Metzger then scored an upset victory over National Religious Party candidate Rabbi Ya'acov Ariel, who had been favored to win.
Metzger was supported by the non-Chassidic segment of the fervently religious community, led by Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv.
In the wake of the renewed allegations against Metzger, the head of the Knesset's Legislative Affairs Committee, Likud legislator Michael Eitan, called on the attorney general to order an immediate investigation.
Meretz legislator Roman Bronfman called on Metzger to suspend himself from his duties until the matter is clarified.
But Shinui legislator Ilan Shalgi countered that as long as the allegations are not proven and no charges are filed, there is no reason for Metzger to refrain from acting as chief rabbi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yona_Metzger
DeleteOn April 3, 2006 Israeli Attorney General Menachem Mazuz announced that he was closing the Metzger investigation and would not seek an indictment against him, citing a lack of sufficient evidence. He added, that in light of various "disturbing" information that came to light during the investigation, including contradictory statements given to the police, that the Chief Rabbi should resign. Mazuz also called on the Justice Ministry to consider bringing Metzger's case "before the Dayanim Selection Committee... to consider ending his term in office" if Metzger did not resign. [25] [26]
The rabbi's supporters included some of Israel's most notable religious figures: Metzger met with a group of high-profile rabbis, including his political patron, leading Lithuanian rabbi Yosef Shalom Eliashiv, as well as former Chief Rabbis Ovadia Yosef, Mordechai Eliyahu, and Avraham Shapira. The rabbis praised his character and integrity, heavily criticized Mazuz's behavior, and promised that they would help the rabbi in fighting the public cries for his resignation.[35] Rabbi Shapira reportedly told Metzger that he was being "watched over" by a "special angel in heaven," and Rabbi Eliyahu commented that in his judgment, Metzger was "pure and clear as snow."[27
Return to office
In February 2008, after an investigation prompted by Mazuz's report and a recommendation by Justice Minister Daniel Friedmann that Metzger be impeached,[32] the Justice Ministry appointments committee authorized the end of Metzger's suspension, permitting him to return to his position on the Supreme Rabbinical Court.[33] However in late March the Knesset Interior Affairs and Environment Committee ratified an amendment to the Chief Rabbinate Law that effectively prohibited Metzger from trading positions with Shlomo Amar, as is standard practice halfway through their ten-year term. The author of the amendment claimed that it was not specifically directed against Metzger, arguing that it in fact would allow for future "flexibility," permitting Chief Rabbis lacking training as rabbinical judges, as Metzger does, to "forgo" becoming President of the rabbinical courts. Some Metzger critics, however, argued that the law was only relevant to Metzger because he is the first ever Chief Rabbi to be elected to the position who has no experience as a rabbinical judge.[34]
Metzger "yechi"
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8LBRH25g-I
Would it be a Ghet Meuso if a married woman who was committing bigamy,refused to accept a ghet from her halachic husband and was jailed to "encourage" her to accept the ghet?
ReplyDeleteTheoretically the halachic husband could get a heater meah rabbanim to remarry. and she would remain a adulteress /bigamist.
Reb Dovid, which Rabbonim did you hear this from?
ReplyDeleteD"T
ReplyDeleteIs this one the case where the husband was homosexual and the wife was uninformed until after they were married for a few years and she found him in bed with another man?
there is a problem with the rabbonut that it jails husbands and forces them to give a GET. This is a GET MEUSO.
ReplyDeleteIf there is anything to this claim please prove it.
The Shulhan Arukh clearly delineates times when a husband may be forced to give a Get.
Further all of the ruling for a Get Kefiya by the Rabbinut are recorded in Piskei Din, which except for the last few years can be found free online at Hebrewbooks.org.
.
So please demonstrate from their actual cases where they exceeded the boundaries laid down in the Shulhan Arukh.
Rav Dovid, you have been given from time to time to making rather hyperbolic statements that ultimately hurt your case. You claimed here:
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/04/get-meusa-crises-halachic-summary.html
that the Titz Eliezer and Rav Ovadia Yosef were incapable of understanding the core halakhic texts and that you were going to offer up a point by point rebuttal(still waiting for that by the way). Now you are saying that the Rabbinut exceeds the boundaries of the Shulhan Arukh, again on the word of anonymous Rabbis and without offering a shred of proof.
You may be 100% correct about ORA and problems with the Beit Din system in the US, but how can one take you seriously when you make these outrageous and unfounded statements?
Regarding prison and get Judge Elon said in book published in 2005 that it was done rarely and in accord with Shulchan Aruch
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/05/judge-m-elon-prison-to-force-get.html
However Rav Sternbuch has also voiced concern for the use of jail in divorce cases. I don't know the current law or statistics as to whether we are talking about 1 case or 100.
Well according to published statistics, the number of actual divorces in Israel last year was 10,694(google Number of divorces in Israel 2012).
DeleteAccording to statistics published by the Rabbinut and Knesset, the number of times that Rabbinut ordered Kefiya(כפייה לגט) against a man was 10(which does not necessarily include prison but a number of sanctions ranging from travel restriction, bank account restriciton, and jail), were told that they had to give a get(חיוב לגט) were 114 and then המלצה לגט advised to give a get 61. Those are men I didn't think it necessary to copy over the women's statistics.
So with those hard numbers it isn't even 1 in 1000 that in which kefiya is employed, let alone jail.
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2013/02/get-given-because-of-embarrassment-is.html
ReplyDeleteMichael Tsadok we just need to look at this blog from a week ago to see that a Get forced is not acceptable.
You want an actual case Michael tsadok: how about yosef dov meyerson which was also on this blog who was put in jail by the rabanut.
Do you really think the rabbanut only puts those in jail who have been warned repeatedly by a competent bais din to stop violence or became a mukas shchin etc
Stop being disingenuous.
Michael Tsadok we just need to look at this blog from a week ago to see that a Get forced is not acceptable.
DeleteNo Stan, it was shown that someone put up a pashkveil that a forced get in a simple case of Meus Alei was unacceptable. The Rabbinut does not use Kefiya for Maus Alei to my knowledge.
You want an actual case Michael tsadok: how about yosef dov meyerson which was also on this blog who was put in jail by the rabanut.
Like I told you then, bring the actual case from the Piskei Din. You never did, so until you do it is simply hearsay. Unlike what happens in Batei Din in the US which is impossible to verify, we can verify precisely what took place in the Israeli Divorce system.
Do you really think the rabbanut only puts those in jail who...
If you are asking do I think Rabbinut never makes a mistake? No I don't. Do I think that they have very specific standards, and if and when a Dayyan exceeds those there is a legal recourse. However, it has to be shown that they exceed those.
Proof please, that he was either a messianic or a mashiachist(those are by the way two different things).
ReplyDeleteHere's video proof
Kol haKavod for that video.
DeleteI repeat my question that no one has answered: Why is there no interest in what might be actually motivating this "escaped convict" who is reported to be an "upstanding member of his community"?
The buzz of "Ghet-refuser" is so amazingly simplistic. What in the world is happening to the soul of Klal Yisroel if year after year there are increasing cases of bitterly divorcing couples from upstanding frum yidden... and that it gets turned into such a media fest?! Where is the crying concern for what has driven these ppl to "refuse"????
Jonathan Rosenblum, when confronted with the possiblity that Rav Elyashiv supported a corrupt man for Chief Rabbi (that would seriously question his Daas Torah) asked Rabbi Efrati whether the Rav was aware of the allegations. Efrati confirmed that he was aware of the allegations.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, at that time he said that even if the allegations were true, it was still better than the alternative (who is a Gadol B'Torah).
DeleteAnd also Daati Leumi. Let's be honest that is a major hashkafic differnce and it affects a great deal. Just look at the NRP now siding with Kadima and Yesh Atid, with their Rabbis' support, because they claim they have more in common with these leftists who admittedly want to destroy Torah than they do with the Hareidi parties who they refuse to join a govt with.
DeleteYitz,
ReplyDeleteI don't repeat the controversial things I hear from others and their names. But this problem with the rabbonut is not a new thing and I heard of cases when gedolei hador protested someone being jailed. I saw a sefer filled with attacks on the rabbonut, but the author did not put in his name. The question is that if the rabbonut uses its powers to make mamzerim, who needs it? I heard of a case where a Rov who was a very prominent expert in Gittin, protested what the Rabbonut was doing and the Rabbonut took away from him the authority to give GETs in Israel. Maybe we are better off without the Rabbonut. That is what I heard from some prominent rabbonim.
You've "heard' a lot of things. But you have yet to back them up with actual facts.
DeleteYes. Any Rav Elyashiv also had problems with the Rabanut. So he chose Rav Metzger to clean it up.
DeleteDo I support the decision? No. I also reject the assumption but that is irrelevant. What matters is that your "Posek Hador" chose him to lead the Rabbanut. That is undisputed. He knew of the allegations against him and chose him anyway.
I dont accept Rav Elyashiv as posek hador so none of this presents any problems for me. But for you, it most certainly does. You can no longer claim Rav elyashiv's support.
I just found out from a reliable rabbinic source that Shay Cohen is in good hands. The Rabbanut in Israel has been refusing to listen to his request to have fair visitation with his children and this is why he took this obstinate approach. Their methodology of jailing husbands is causing alot of mamzeirim in Israel . i hope he evades them forever
ReplyDeleteThe man tried to murder his wife. Seriously... Why should he be allowed around their children?
DeleteSo Michael tzadok expects us to believe and rely on the silly court records of the corrupt rabbanut. tnhey are the judge and jury of their corruption which clearly they cover up. since they don't admit to the arrest of yosef dov meyerson it didn't happen right.
ReplyDeleteit is rather despicable that when i posted this earlier my comment was censored. not sure how much more i need to waste my time on this site. i know where dovid eidensohn stands. i am not sure where his Zionist brother stands.
While in general i don't belive in censorship, i think it is a disgrace that after being found economical with the truth, and repeatedly being found out and exposed, tzadok who voluntarily agreed to stop posting is allowed back without any complaints. again he is being found as to covering up the sickening corruption o fthe rabbanut. why is he back? i thought it was disturbing his learning.
ReplyDelete