I was asked to post this excerpt from the Pele Yoetz. I have already posted the Pele Yoetz's strong condemnation of wife abuse as well as child abuse. So the obviously question is why is he advising the battered wife to remain silent? The obvious answer is that we are dealing with a situation where the wife does not have a ready option of divorce. In such a society the alternative to marriage to an abusive husband is often worse. The Pele Yoetz is simply advising her how to minimize her suffering. In the same chapter he also advised that the husband put up with an abusive wife. In other words, he is providing suggestions to both abused husband and wife as what to do when divorce is not a viable option. This is excerpted from Rabbi Mansour's translation here
In truth, according to the dictum of our Sages (Eruvin 41b), "Someone who has a bad wife will not see Gehinom", it would be proper to seek a bad wife if he could stand the test, considering the enormous severity of the punishment of Gehinom. If he passes the test, then he will not inherit two Gehinoms (one in this world and one in the World to Come)! Rather he should accept her with love and he will receive a fine reward for his labors.
its this book i think http://www.eichlers.com/Product/Books/Book_Sets/Pele-Yoetz-2-Volume-English-Set-_CISPEL.html
ReplyDeleteits not Rabbi Mansours Translation but the Shiur is, the english translation is independent of rabbi mansour
ReplyDeleteso whose translation is it?
DeleteThis advice seems to be the product of a society where the beaten woman has no rights. In such circumstances, what can she do but keep submit. Things have inched forward since then but there's still room to go.
ReplyDeleteAvraham
That's it, Avi. Feminism has replaced the antiquiated Torah, hasn't it?
Delete...and once he killed her (by accident, of course, he just wanted to beat some sense into her), the community will kill an egla arufa and say "our hands did not spread this blood"
ReplyDeleteI suppose the jewish communities are to small to have reliable statistics, but in the world of domestic abuse, this is exactely what she should not do.
The first aim of domestic abuse is to isolate the wife from the surroundings. This is exactely what this passage of Pele Yoetz furthers.
A beaten wife should not stay with her husband and bear it. She should run as fast as her legs can carry her and never look back.
In a violent person submissive behaviour provokes more violence (just because they can).
So what is the aim of publishing this chapter were a sage clearly dispenses inadequate advice? Is it to show the public that sages are not infallible?
PS: Which parents will believe their daughter, who is beaten up regularly by her husband, that all is fine and well? Please!
ReplyDeleteBatmelech your objections of yours are based on the rather naive assumption that all women in all ages had clear options of leaving an abusive husband. While your advice is totally correct for a modern woman living in a modern western society - in previous ages or more traditional societies the option of leaving was/is simply not there. This I clearly noted in my introduction.
DeleteSo therefore to stand on your soap box and making blanket judgments about the advice given by the Pele Yoetz or about those who accept it - is simply inappropriate - and displays an ignorance of reality.
If you work in the real world as a social worker or therapist or policman - you will there are many grey areas that don't fit into preconceived formula.
A social worker who worked with poor Hispanics in New York when she was fresh out of social work school related her horror of discovering that wife beating was the norm. She tried her best to get these woman to go to the police and to move out of their homes. Finally one of her clients told her - "I am not worried about being beaten occasionally - it is when he stops beating me that I am worried. That means that he has found another woman and he doesn't love me any more."
Where is the post on Pele Yoetz's view on abuse? The link in this post doesn't appear to work.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the post on Pele Yoetz's view on abuse? The link in this post doesn't appear to work.
ReplyDeleteThe link works fine on my computer
Delete