Thursday, January 26, 2012

Rav Reuven Feinstein prohibits proselytization

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/10/rav-reuven-feinstein-kiruv-and-mixed_18.html

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/10/rav-reuven-feinsteinkiruv-mixed-couples.html


http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/10/r-tropper-is-transcript-of-rav-reuven.html


http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/06/ejf-attracting-non-jews-to-proselytize.html


http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/06/rav-reuven-feinnstein-kiruv-and.html

13 comments :

  1. Tropper bin pimpin'January 26, 2012 at 5:10 PM

    Whose transcript is this / where was it published? And when? Just now? It's good that R' Reuvein is finally coming back to agreeing with his own father's shitos after taking $3 million from Tropper to fudge them.

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  2. this is a transcipt of a recording that was given to me. I transcribed the recording. It was recorded several years ago - I think in 2009 which is when I put it on my blog as a refutation of Tropper and his claim for halachic support for his activities.

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  3. Tropper bin pimpin'January 26, 2012 at 5:31 PM

    It was not then a refutation of Tropper but rather a steera in R' Reuvein, as he said the correct psak to a yeshivishe crowd while backing Tropper's distortions and attending EJF events, for which he was handsomely paid. This is in contrast to his older brother R' Dovid who seems to have come to an initial EJF event, to never be seen associating again.

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  4. It was in fact a refutation of Tropper who wrote to me that there was no halachic problem with what he was doing.

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  5. And EJF, which had the blessing of the Rabbis concerned, never undertook any kind of kiruv for intermarried?

    Here is a perfect example of the forked tongue. They preach one thing and practice another.

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  6. I would like to see RaP's response to this.

    Here is something he posted before the Tropp hit the fan:

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/06/ejf-proselytizing-intermarried-couples.html

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  7. Recipients and PublicityJanuary 27, 2012 at 4:30 PM

    "Eddie said...And EJF, which had the blessing of the Rabbis concerned, never undertook any kind of kiruv for intermarried?"

    RaP: Eddie you are embarrassing yourself again! Do you even bother to read what you "cite" or do you just scan a heading and assume it means something entirely differently than what is going on in your, seemingly obvious prejudiced head?! This blog, with Rabbi Eidensohn, myself ("RaP"), "Jersey Girl" and others hard working posters and bloggers constantly and consistently, clearly and unambiguously, criticized Tropper and EJF from day one, starting from June 2007 and this first post of mine: EJF - proselytizing intermarried couples/ RaP [June 7, 2007], so I am not sure what you are talking about?! Are you?!

    "Here is a perfect example of the forked tongue. They preach one thing and practice another."

    RaP: Who's "preaching" -- this blog and its owner, Rabbi Eidensohn has been a critic of those same people's naive support for Tropper and EJF. Further, this blog posted all those strong refutations and rebuttals of Tropper's and EJF's goals, so what are you going on about? There is no connection between those Charedi and other Orthodox rabbis who supported Tropper/EJF and those Charedi and Orthodox who opposed him! The Tropper/EJF saga was one about Charedi & Orthodox rabbonim VERSUS Charedi & Orthodox rabbis, something you seem to be missing and either deliberately mixing up or just plain ignorant of the facts!

    "Eddie said...I would like to see RaP's response to this. Here is something he posted before the Tropp hit the fan: http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/06/ejf-proselytizing-intermarried-couples.html"

    RaP: Again Eddie, your ignorance is showing. That post, same as above, is written AGAINST the position of Tropper and EJF!!! Have you even read it??? The only confusion seems to be in your mind and in your attempt to attribute to others what they never said or meant at any point is becoming tedious!

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  8. Rap, I think you have lost you figurative marbles.

    I am well aware of the the position of this blog, as well s Rap on the EJF. You seem to be suffering form severe paranoia, that I am suppsoedly attacking yourself and R' Eidensohn.


    The Rav Feinstein that is posted in this blog, is the same r' Feinstein that was the advisor of the EJF. He, along with many other gedolim supported its activities.
    This blog attacked the EJF and accused it of proselt'.

    R Feinstein, who was very close with the EJF was indirectly or perhaps directly criticized by this blog. be honest.

    The transcription he gives contradicts the activities of the EJF , according to YOURSELF and R' Eidensohn.

    In fact, even after tropper's exit, Gedolim, including the Posek HaDor wrote a letter to EJF telling them to keep up the good work.

    This was all published on this website.

    So be honest and do nto get defensive about an imagined attack on yourself.

    Be clear about who says what, and who does what.

    Who did the prosel't ?

    Who gave it halachic imprimatur?

    Was r' Feinstein opposed to the activities of the EJF?

    Was r' Elyashiv opposed to the EJF?


    perhaps you are simply unable to add 2 + 2/

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  9. Recipients and PublicityJanuary 29, 2012 at 4:20 PM

    1 of 3: RaP to Eddie:

    "Eddie said...Rap, I think you have lost you figurative marbles."

    RaP: Gosh, Eddie, you speak in a jumble, expect everyone to follow your intentions when you utter truncated and misleading words, and then accuse your debating partners on this blog, who take you seriously unlike you who talks down at them all the time, of losing their marbles.

    "I am well aware of the the position of this blog, as well s Rap on the EJF. You seem to be suffering form severe paranoia, that I am suppsoedly attacking yourself and R' Eidensohn."

    RaP: Let's get this straight, what you stated was "Eddie said...I would like to see RaP's response to this. Here is something he posted before the Tropp hit the fan: http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/06/ejf-proselytizing-intermarried-couples.html" -- and it is CLEARLY an attempt to somehow convey that I "stated" something about something else, that you imply will be not be possible, when in fact at no time have I ever stated anything of the sort to either defend ANY of Tropper's or EJF's actions, statements and activities.

    It would be far more helpful if you wrote clearly and clarified what you mean instead of launching into personal attacks that makes your motives and standing highly questionable as to why you are on this blog in the first place!

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  10. Recipients and PublicityJanuary 29, 2012 at 4:22 PM

    2 of 3: RaP to Eddie:

    "The Rav Feinstein that is posted in this blog, is the same r' Feinstein that was the advisor of the EJF. He, along with many other gedolim supported its activities."

    RaP: Ok, that's him. And yes many of them, if not most supported Tropper and EJF, certainly NOT me at any time, and NOT the owner of this blog, the BADATZ, Rav Hershel Shachter of YU, and eventually the RCA who opposed Tropper and his goals through EJF for various reasons of their own.

    "This blog attacked the EJF and accused it of proselt'."

    RaP: The EJF was proselytizing, while it faked it two-facedly caliming it was "frumming up" the conversion process, or did you miss that point?

    "R Feinstein, who was very close with the EJF was indirectly or perhaps directly criticized by this blog. be honest."

    RaP: Yes he was. But Rav Feinstein also subsequently retracted and EJF then had no rabbinic support. Such is life. Again, I do not support and have never supported what Rav Reuven Feinstein did in regards to Tropper and EJF then or now, so why have you dragged me into this?

    "The transcription he gives contradicts the activities of the EJF , according to YOURSELF and R' Eidensohn."

    RaP: I do not speak for Rabbi Eidensohn and I do not and have not ever subsribed to ANY of the views of Rav Reuven Feinstein about EJF, so stop pushing me around and lumping me with what I was NEVER connected to in any way. It is a credit to Rabbi Eidensohn that he publishes the opinions of an array of views, including mine and YOURS and even Tropper's and his mouthpiece the poster Roni so generously. He does not tell anyone what to believe. You are verging on acting like a bully and it is not appreciated.

    "In fact, even after tropper's exit, Gedolim, including the Posek HaDor wrote a letter to EJF telling them to keep up the good work."

    RaP: Is that true? I think you are not accurately stating what happened.

    After Tropper was outed as a menuval and agreed to resign, he had the support of ONLY three roshei yeshiva, primarily Rabbis R. Feinstein, EB Wachtfogel, A Schechter and they oversaw his resignation from EJF and his Kol Yaakov yeshiva, they did not vouch for EJF after thay, the rest just melted away. What WAS said by Rav Reuven Feinstein was that the previous conversions were still valid because the batei din were still in good standing.

    You are then ascribing something to Rav Elyashiv that you claim he "supported" EJF after Tropper's downfall, which is not correct because once Tropper fell, EJF fell.

    You are creating sneaky historical revisionism to what end? Just to besmirch and attack Rav Elyashiv? That says more about you than anything else.

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  11. Recipients and PublicityJanuary 29, 2012 at 4:23 PM

    3 of 3: RaP to Eddie:

    "This was all published on this website."

    RaP: What was? So far you have proven that you have not read the past posts on this blog and are ignorant about all the serious discussions over the last 4+ years that took place here and now you expect to be taken seriously when you act like an "authority" about what was and was not written on this blog! Puh-leez, give us all a break will you!

    "So be honest and do nto get defensive about an imagined attack on yourself."

    RaP: You attacked me and now you make it seem like you didn't.

    "Be clear about who says what, and who does what."

    RaP: Look who's talking?!

    "Who did the prosel't ?"

    RaP: EJF DID then and and Shavei Israel DOES now, at least we can agree on that. Or are you just enjoying twisting the conversation around to let Shavei Israel off the hook as seems to be your aim with distractions, tangents, personal attacks, mind games, red herrings, and that good ol' favorite of Internet flaming?

    "Who gave it halachic imprimatur?"

    RaP: There was nothing in writing for a long time. Eventually Rav Reuven Feinstein did in a very vague way. Then he took it back with other statements. The problem is definitely with Rav Reuven Feinstein, we can agree on that and not with either Rabbi Eidensohn or myself who do not speak for Rav Reuven Feinstein.

    "Was r' Feinstein opposed to the activities of the EJF?"

    RaP: No, they received funding from the same sources, to the tune of millions from the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation of Tom Kaplan and Guma Aguiar.

    "Was r' Elyashiv opposed to the EJF?"

    RaP: Originally he was supportive based on what he was told by Tropper that it WOULD RAISE THE HALACHIC LEVEL OF CONVERSIONS in the case of where sincere converts come for conversions -- but Rav Elyashiv was not aware and not apprised of EJF's other SECRET agenda of active proselytization to a third of the world's gentiles wit "possible Jewish ancestry" (no exaggeration as EJF's PR machine spoke of this online) to become Jews and you are being disingenuous and deceitful to suggest or imply otherwise, and you know it, which again makes your motives for being on this blog questionable.

    "perhaps you are simply unable to add 2 + 2/"

    RaP: While you are obviously quite capable of twisting arguments around and distorting statements of what rabbis meant to imply that they never had in mind or even said in the first place.

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  12. This statement was from RRF. I never implied it was from RDE.
    In fact i explicitly reminded you that RRF was criticised ob this blog.

    Hence, I found it a bit rich of RRF to make this statementm, IF, hsi activities in conjunction with EJF were contrued (by RDE and R' Shternbuch) as being proslytisation.
    It is very simple. Thsi post was not an ttack on Rap. There are other posts where i have atatcked him.
    This also has nothign to do with Shavei, with patrilineal , or with any of the other issues.

    As for r 'Elyashiv, he signed a letter after Tropper was caught in difficult situations, giving Hizzuk to the EJF. That letter was published on here. These are facts. Perhaps rap has the filthy mind and is trying to project hsi filthiness on me. I AM NOT CRITICISING R ' eLYASHIV. IN FACT, IT IS THE OPPONENTS OF EJF WHO IMPLICITLY CRITICISED HIM DURING THE TROPPERGATE SCANDAL. They were not saying so openly, but were publishing details of money going to varies rabbis.

    So do not try to pass off your own dirty laundry on me, Mr rap.

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  13. Eddie I really don't know what has gotten into you. You are really responding to something that RaP has not written and that something is really irritating you. At this point I simply don't understand the points you are trying to make so I am not publishing anymore of your comments on this topic.

    ReplyDelete

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