Since when do facts matter to Obama? His speeches and policies are riddled with errors. If he was George Bush, we'd hear about it to no end. For some reason those same commentators who spent 8 years mocking that president are suddenly silent.
Early in 1935, a passenger ship bound for Haifa in Palestine left the German port of Bremerhaven. Its stern bore the Hebrew letter for its name, "Tel Aviv", while a swastika banner fluttered from the mast. And although the ship was Zionist owned, its captain was a National Socialist Party (Nazi) member. Many years later a traveler aboard the ship recalled this symbolic combination as a "metaphysical absurdity". Absurd or not, this is but one vignette from a little-known chapter of history: The wide ranging collaboration between Zionism and Hitler's Third Reich.
In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as the main enemy of Zionism.
This remarkable proposal "for the solution of the Jewish question in Europe and the active participation on the NMO [Lehi] in the war on the side of Germany" is worth quoting at some length:
"The NMO which is very familiar with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its officials towards Zionist activities within Germany and the Zionist emigration program takes the view that:
1. Common interests can exist between a European New Order based on the German concept and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as embodied by the NMO. 2. Cooperation is possible between the New Germany and a renewed, folkish-national Jewry. 3. The establishment of the Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by treaty, with the German Reich, would be in the interest of maintaining and strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East.
"On the basis of these considerations, and upon the condition that the German Reich government recognize the national aspirations of the Israel Freedom Movement mentioned above, the NMO in Palestine offers to actively take part in the war on the side of Germany.
"This offer by the NMO could include military, political and informational activity within Palestine and, after certain organizational measures, outside as well. Along with this the "Jewish" men of Europe would be militarily trained and organized in military units under the leadership and command of the NMO. They would take part in combat operations for the purpose of conquering Palestine, should such a front be formed.
"The indirect participation of the Israel Freedom Movement in the New Order of Europe, already in the preparatory stage, combined with a positive-radical solution of the European-Jewish problem on the basis of the national aspirations of the Jewish people mentioned above, would greatly strengthen the moral foundation of the New Order in the eyes of all humanity.
"The cooperation of the Israel Freedom Movement would also be consistent with a recent speech by the German Reich Chancellor, in which Hitler stressed that he would utilize any combination and coalition in order to isolate and defeat England". (Original document in German Auswertiges Amt Archiv, Bestand 47-59, E224152 and E234155-58.
Complete original text published in: David Yisraeli, The Palestinian Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 (Israel: 1947) pp. 315-317).
On the basis of their similar ideologies about ethnicity and nationhood, National Socialists and Zionists worked together for what each group believed was in its own national interests.
This is just one example of the Zionist movements' collaboration with Hitler for the purpose of possibly receiving jurisdiction over a minute piece of earth, Palestine.
Jersey Girl is now implying that because during the era of World War Two there were some elements among the Zionist leadership who worked with Nazi officials that somehow the Zionists are also "guilty" of the attack against the Washington DC Holocaust Museum, through "guilt by association", which is all rather macabre poor logic.
Jersey Girl is showing off her knee-jerk hatred of all things Zionist even if the facts of history and reality do not match what she wishes to accomplish which is the ongoing tarring and feathering of small Zionist groups, even if they are long gone, like LECHI which only had a few hundred members and did NOT reflect the peaceful views of the vast majority of Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust years.
At any rate, if Jersey Girl would only read more widely she would know that the Nazis, like the Obamanians, fooled a lot of people for many years to get their opponenets to let their guard down and deal with them (the Nazis) as "regular" Germans, so that just as the Germans of World War One and the Austrians were regarded as the best friends of Jewish people that when Germany attacked Poland in World War Two, many Jews believed that the Germans of WWII would be like the Germans of WWI, which turned out to be a fatal mistake, and by the time they found out they were trapped.
The point being is that many, if not all Jewish groups cooperated in some way or otherwith the Nazis and not just the Zionists, simply because the Nazis ruled Germany and almost all of Europe and North africa in one way or another from 1933 to 1945.
Try reading some of the points in that key book, "The Destruction of The European Jews" (1973) by Raul Hilberg who describes how all Jewish communities tried to bargain and negotiate with the German Nazis, in classical Jewish fashion, not knowing that the Nazis had other plans hidden up their sleave for a an eventual final solution.
It goes even further, and one can find sources of how leading Rabbonim in Germany, like Rav Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg (the Seridei Eish) who headed the Berlin Rabbiner Seminary tried for years in Germany to negotiate with the Nazi regime to arrive at a peaceful resolution to not persecute Jews, but that he too failed.
It is also a mistake to overlook the brutal ruthlessness of the British who held Palestine in a tight noose and working with their Arab friends (that Jersey Girl mystifylingly so admires), who put a near total stop to Aliyah, and how this drove groups like the LECHI to come to the conclusion that as far as the Jews of Palestine were concerned British pro-Arab policies of keeping Jews out of Palestine was as bad, and at least equal to, if not WORSE than the plans of the Nazis for the Jews of the world, so they made the strategic choice to fight the British no matter what (while the Hagana and Irgun stopped their war against the British during WWII), all this in the middle of the Holocaust, for acting as the very open tacit partners of the Nazis in keeping Jews out of Eretz Yisroel and that is why the LECHI eventually succeeded in assassinating the British Minister to the Middle East Lord Moyne in retaliation for the British policies against the Jews that was the main problem in keeping the Jews out of Palestine. Had the British changed their policy and allowed free Aliyah for any and all Jews, even accepting the offer of the Nazis to free Hungarian Jews, and removed their navy and armed forced from blocking Palestine to the Jews of Europe, it is very probable that millions could have been saved (as the Jews of the USSR ands from Arab countries were subsequently saved by openand free borders to Israel) from annihilation before 1943 when the Final Solution went into full force.
Ten questions to the Zionists by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L Dean of Nitra Yeshiva
1.IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that: a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily. 2.IS IT TRUE that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti. 3.IS IT TRUE that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments: a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees. b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war. c) No ransom will be paid
4.IS IT TRUE that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber. 5.IS IT TRUE that in 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved. 6.IS IT TRUE that the same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions). 7.IS IT TRUE that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany. 8.IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!" 9.IS IT TRUE that the British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed. 10.IS IT TRUE that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".
My family who left a comfortable, peaceful life in Morocco to go to "build the budding State". After they were all irradiated for "ringworm" and doused with deadly DDT, they then spent 8 years living in corrugated tin shacks in the Negev while apartments were given to the European olim who had come later.
Sephardim/Mizrahim make up 75% of Israel's 1.6 million poor. 1 in 5 Sephardic/Mizrahi children are hungry.
50% of Israeli Jewish are Mizrahi or Sephardi; but from them, Israel has not elected one Prime Minister, Israeli governments are overwhelmingly composed of European Jews except for a token Mizrahi here or there.
The founding father of Israel and its first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion himself spoke with contempt against Oriental Jews and declared that the state of Israel was not built for them. (Tom Segev “1949: The First Israelis” p 157).
Ben-Gurion attacked the Jews of North Africa:
“Even the immigrant of North Africa, who looks like a savage, who has never read a book in his life, not even a religious one, and doesn’t even know how to say his prayers, either wittingly or unwittingly has behind him a spiritual heritage of thousands of years. . . .”
A few years later Ben-Gurion wrote to Justice Moshe Estzioni: “An Ashkenazi gangster, thief, pimp, or murderer will not gain the sympathy of the Ashkenazi community, nor will he expect it. But in such a primitive community as the Moroccans’—such a thing is possible. . . . ”
This is how Israel treats Mizrahi Jews, is it any surprise that they would treat Palestinians and Arabs they way they do?
Israel could have used its Mizrahi Jews to build bridges to the Arabs, but Zionism has no patience for that.
Jersey Girl please get a hold of yourself. It is pointless at this stage to come up with emotional tirades against the Zionists and the State of Israel.
While we can sympathize with Rav Weismandel's situation and words, and most of what he said is true, but there is an even broader picture than what Rav Weismandel paints, so he does not have the final perspective and opinion about everything that went on before, during and after the Holocaust, when the whole picture is still being pieced together.
As for your second hobby horse, the Sefardim were not the only ones to suffer in the early Aliyah, everyone did, innocent Ashkenazi Jews, most survivors of the Holocaust, were pressed into battle often as they got off the boats in 1947 and 1948 and thousands of them died in battle, not to mention that they were all compelled to serve in the new Israeli army.
Please don't make out the Sefardim to be like poor little nebachs -- if they like the old Arabs lands so much, they are free to move back to Libya, Egypt, Syria, Alegeria, Iraq, etc and see how they would be treated and how much they would enjoy being there -- so grow up, there were mistakes and blunders and sins by all sides, but over-all the Zionist effort to build a home for the Jews and open its borders to Aliyah has been the best thing that every happened to the Jewish people since the destruction of the 2nd Temple 2,000 years ago, that is unless you are like the Neturei Karta who hate that and deny even the Holocaust and go kiss the evil leaders in Iran which they should move to today and see what it's like living under a violent anti-Semitic Islamic tyrany, that now the whole world can see is just a cruel, barberous bloodthirsty state that even Barack Hussein Obama with his golden tongue attached to a crooked mind cannot cover up!
RaP, as I've noted before, Jersey Girl isn't a human being. She's a computer programmed by an anti-Semitic Arab, possibly in cooperation with some neo-Nazi loser somewhere.
Facts are irrelevant. There is only anti-Jewish hate in her data banks.
Attempting to engage her in useful conversation is about as possible as getting Windows to respond to you by yelling at the monitor when the blue screen of death appears.
Since when do facts matter to Obama? His speeches and policies are riddled with errors. If he was George Bush, we'd hear about it to no end. For some reason those same commentators who spent 8 years mocking that president are suddenly silent.
ReplyDeletethanks for the post!
ReplyDeleteEarly in 1935, a passenger ship bound for Haifa in Palestine left the German port of Bremerhaven. Its stern bore the Hebrew letter for its name, "Tel Aviv", while a swastika banner fluttered from the mast. And although the ship was Zionist owned, its captain was a National Socialist Party (Nazi) member. Many years later a traveler aboard the ship recalled this symbolic combination as a "metaphysical absurdity". Absurd or not, this is but one vignette from a little-known chapter of history: The wide ranging collaboration between Zionism and Hitler's Third Reich.
ReplyDeleteIn early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as the main enemy of Zionism.
This remarkable proposal "for the solution of the Jewish question in Europe and the active participation on the NMO [Lehi] in the war on the side of Germany" is worth quoting at some length:
"The NMO which is very familiar with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its officials towards Zionist activities within Germany and the Zionist emigration program takes the view that:
1. Common interests can exist between a European New Order based on the German concept and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as embodied by the NMO.
2. Cooperation is possible between the New Germany and a renewed, folkish-national Jewry.
3. The establishment of the Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by treaty, with the German Reich, would be in the interest of maintaining and strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East.
"On the basis of these considerations, and upon the condition that the German Reich government recognize the national aspirations of the Israel Freedom Movement mentioned above, the NMO in Palestine offers to actively take part in the war on the side of Germany.
"This offer by the NMO could include military, political and informational activity within Palestine and, after certain organizational measures, outside as well. Along with this the "Jewish" men of Europe would be militarily trained and organized in military units under the leadership and command of the NMO. They would take part in combat operations for the purpose of conquering Palestine, should such a front be formed.
"The indirect participation of the Israel Freedom Movement in the New Order of Europe, already in the preparatory stage, combined with a positive-radical solution of the European-Jewish problem on the basis of the national aspirations of the Jewish people mentioned above, would greatly strengthen the moral foundation of the New Order in the eyes of all humanity.
"The cooperation of the Israel Freedom Movement would also be consistent with a recent speech by the German Reich Chancellor, in which Hitler stressed that he would utilize any combination and coalition in order to isolate and defeat England".
(Original document in German Auswertiges Amt Archiv, Bestand 47-59, E224152 and E234155-58.
Complete original text published in: David Yisraeli, The Palestinian Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 (Israel: 1947) pp. 315-317).
On the basis of their similar ideologies about ethnicity and nationhood, National Socialists and Zionists worked together for what each group believed was in its own national interests.
This is just one example of the Zionist movements' collaboration with Hitler for the purpose of possibly receiving jurisdiction over a minute piece of earth, Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
ReplyDeleteJersey Girl is now implying that because during the era of World War Two there were some elements among the Zionist leadership who worked with Nazi officials that somehow the Zionists are also "guilty" of the attack against the Washington DC Holocaust Museum, through "guilt by association", which is all rather macabre poor logic.
ReplyDeleteJersey Girl is showing off her knee-jerk hatred of all things Zionist even if the facts of history and reality do not match what she wishes to accomplish which is the ongoing tarring and feathering of small Zionist groups, even if they are long gone, like LECHI which only had a few hundred members and did NOT reflect the peaceful views of the vast majority of Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust years.
At any rate, if Jersey Girl would only read more widely she would know that the Nazis, like the Obamanians, fooled a lot of people for many years to get their opponenets to let their guard down and deal with them (the Nazis) as "regular" Germans, so that just as the Germans of World War One and the Austrians were regarded as the best friends of Jewish people that when Germany attacked Poland in World War Two, many Jews believed that the Germans of WWII would be like the Germans of WWI, which turned out to be a fatal mistake, and by the time they found out they were trapped.
The point being is that many, if not all Jewish groups cooperated in some way or otherwith the Nazis and not just the Zionists, simply because the Nazis ruled Germany and almost all of Europe and North africa in one way or another from 1933 to 1945.
Try reading some of the points in that key book, "The Destruction of The European Jews" (1973) by Raul Hilberg who describes how all Jewish communities tried to bargain and negotiate with the German Nazis, in classical Jewish fashion, not knowing that the Nazis had other plans hidden up their sleave for a an eventual final solution.
It goes even further, and one can find sources of how leading Rabbonim in Germany, like Rav Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg (the Seridei Eish) who headed the Berlin Rabbiner Seminary tried for years in Germany to negotiate with the Nazi regime to arrive at a peaceful resolution to not persecute Jews, but that he too failed.
It is also a mistake to overlook the brutal ruthlessness of the British who held Palestine in a tight noose and working with their Arab friends (that Jersey Girl mystifylingly so admires), who put a near total stop to Aliyah, and how this drove groups like the LECHI to come to the conclusion that as far as the Jews of Palestine were concerned British pro-Arab policies of keeping Jews out of Palestine was as bad, and at least equal to, if not WORSE than the plans of the Nazis for the Jews of the world, so they made the strategic choice to fight the British no matter what (while the Hagana and Irgun stopped their war against the British during WWII), all this in the middle of the Holocaust, for acting as the very open tacit partners of the Nazis in keeping Jews out of Eretz Yisroel and that is why the LECHI eventually succeeded in assassinating the British Minister to the Middle East Lord Moyne in retaliation for the British policies against the Jews that was the main problem in keeping the Jews out of Palestine. Had the British changed their policy and allowed free Aliyah for any and all Jews, even accepting the offer of the Nazis to free Hungarian Jews, and removed their navy and armed forced from blocking Palestine to the Jews of Europe, it is very probable that millions could have been saved (as the Jews of the USSR ands from Arab countries were subsequently saved by openand free borders to Israel) from annihilation before 1943 when the Final Solution went into full force.
Ten questions to the Zionists
ReplyDeleteby Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L
Dean of Nitra Yeshiva
1.IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:
a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and
b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and
c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.
2.IS IT TRUE that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.
3.IS IT TRUE that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments:
a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees.
b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war.
c) No ransom will be paid
4.IS IT TRUE that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.
5.IS IT TRUE that in 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved.
6.IS IT TRUE that the same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions).
7.IS IT TRUE that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany.
8.IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!"
9.IS IT TRUE that the British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed.
10.IS IT TRUE that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".
My family who left a comfortable, peaceful life in Morocco to go to "build the budding State". After they were all irradiated for "ringworm" and doused with deadly DDT, they then spent 8 years living in corrugated tin shacks in the Negev while apartments were given to the European olim who had come later.
ReplyDeleteSephardim/Mizrahim make up 75% of Israel's 1.6 million poor. 1 in 5 Sephardic/Mizrahi children are hungry.
50% of Israeli Jewish are Mizrahi or Sephardi; but from them, Israel has not elected one Prime Minister, Israeli governments are overwhelmingly composed of European Jews except for a token Mizrahi here or there.
The founding father of Israel and its first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion himself spoke with contempt against Oriental Jews and declared that the state of Israel was not built for them. (Tom Segev “1949: The First Israelis” p 157).
Ben-Gurion attacked the Jews of North Africa:
“Even the immigrant of North Africa, who looks like a savage, who has never read a book in his life, not even a religious one, and doesn’t even know how to say his prayers, either wittingly or unwittingly has behind him a spiritual heritage of thousands of years. . . .”
A few years later Ben-Gurion wrote to Justice Moshe Estzioni: “An Ashkenazi gangster, thief, pimp, or murderer will not gain the sympathy of the Ashkenazi community, nor will he expect it. But in such a primitive community as the Moroccans’—such a thing is possible. . . . ”
This is how Israel treats Mizrahi Jews, is it any surprise that they would treat Palestinians and Arabs they way they do?
Israel could have used its Mizrahi Jews to build bridges to the Arabs, but Zionism has no patience for that.
Jersey Girl please get a hold of yourself. It is pointless at this stage to come up with emotional tirades against the Zionists and the State of Israel.
ReplyDeleteWhile we can sympathize with Rav Weismandel's situation and words, and most of what he said is true, but there is an even broader picture than what Rav Weismandel paints, so he does not have the final perspective and opinion about everything that went on before, during and after the Holocaust, when the whole picture is still being pieced together.
As for your second hobby horse, the Sefardim were not the only ones to suffer in the early Aliyah, everyone did, innocent Ashkenazi Jews, most survivors of the Holocaust, were pressed into battle often as they got off the boats in 1947 and 1948 and thousands of them died in battle, not to mention that they were all compelled to serve in the new Israeli army.
Please don't make out the Sefardim to be like poor little nebachs -- if they like the old Arabs lands so much, they are free to move back to Libya, Egypt, Syria, Alegeria, Iraq, etc and see how they would be treated and how much they would enjoy being there -- so grow up, there were mistakes and blunders and sins by all sides, but over-all the Zionist effort to build a home for the Jews and open its borders to Aliyah has been the best thing that every happened to the Jewish people since the destruction of the 2nd Temple 2,000 years ago, that is unless you are like the Neturei Karta who hate that and deny even the Holocaust and go kiss the evil leaders in Iran which they should move to today and see what it's like living under a violent anti-Semitic Islamic tyrany, that now the whole world can see is just a cruel, barberous bloodthirsty state that even Barack Hussein Obama with his golden tongue attached to a crooked mind cannot cover up!
RaP, as I've noted before, Jersey Girl isn't a human being. She's a computer programmed by an anti-Semitic Arab, possibly in cooperation with some neo-Nazi loser somewhere.
ReplyDeleteFacts are irrelevant. There is only anti-Jewish hate in her data banks.
Attempting to engage her in useful conversation is about as possible as getting Windows to respond to you by yelling at the monitor when the blue screen of death appears.