Update: Text on Tropper's blog now says "educated at the Yeshivas Rabbeinu Yaakov Yosef Elementary School" instead of "educator".
Update in light of some comments in the comments section
Update: Rabbi Micha Berger wrote: Dr Marvin Schick's email address is on his blog, so it took no work to contact him and ask. Here was his reply:
Leib Tropper does not teach at the Rabbi Jacob Joseph School on Staten Island and to my knowledge has never taught there. Nor does he hold any other position at the school. I hope that this makes the matter clear.
===========================
I was recently given a shock when someone sent me a page from Rabbi Tropper's Blog where he proclaims in the upper right hand corner that he is currently an "Educator at the Yeshivas Rabbeinu Yaakov Yosef Elementary School". That is where his father taught first grade for 30 years. He also notes that "He is involved in the Character First project, which promotes good character in young people
Update in light of some comments in the comments section
Daas Torah February 25, 2013 at 11:29 AM
Yisroel's
comments concerning this shows that he is a shoteh. However Monseylite
raises some of the same concerns I mentioned in the post itself. The
issue is whether there is any benefit of mentioning the terrible chillul
hashem that an individual once did. Monseylite says "its over" " I
don't think it's fair to bring him up again and open up another chance
for people to shoot arrows at him."
I disagree. Tropper's crime was not a momentary loss of control where he might have taken money that wasn't his. It wasn't an aberration of the situational temptation of eating treif food or selling it. His crime involved the systematic and intentional corruption of Orthodox Judaism and some of the most well know and important gedolim within that system primarily with money but also with kavod and power over others concerning conversion.
For these types of crimes not only is his repentance dependent on the facts of his crime being well known- but something more important. When I traveled to America after the Tropper affair I was confronted with an amazing reality - almost no one I met had heard of the disaster. I am not talking about tzadikim and masmidim who are detached from awareness of scandal. The people ignorant of this historic event were people who pride themselves with knowing what goes on in the frum world. As one American godol who was intimately involved in the events put it, it was event that involved too many big people and involved too much of the system to be publicized. In the vernacular -Eternal Jewish Family and Tropper were too big to fail. But he did. And it caused one of the most negative lowering of rabbinic status, respect and authority of anything else in the last 50 years- if not more.
Furthermore the response of gedolim - not only those in involved - was a concerted effort to silence comment and coverup the crimes that were done. There was not a single comment of apology from a single gadol who was involved in the fiasco except to say what happened wasn't really such a big deal.
So for all of these reasons and more I respectfully disagree with monseylite and his "let's be adult in our midos" approach.
If he has any actual sources that say that this event should be erased from our collective memory, that it serves no purpose to remind the public periodically what happened and that it is wrong to Tropper (who to the best of my knowledge is not a baal teshuva in this matter) to remind him of his past when warning others of what can happened when the rabbinic system loses its transparency and is concerned primarily with power, influence and money - please educate us.
Those who are ignorant of history are condemned to repeat it.
The Torah prescribes punishment for crimes that serve as a warning and consciousness raising exercise so that the crimes are not done again.
As Rav Moshe Feinstein put it - "even if a murderer did genuine teshuva - he is still executed." It is still publicized that he was a murderer or any other type of criminal - even though this has disastrous consequences on his family.
I disagree. Tropper's crime was not a momentary loss of control where he might have taken money that wasn't his. It wasn't an aberration of the situational temptation of eating treif food or selling it. His crime involved the systematic and intentional corruption of Orthodox Judaism and some of the most well know and important gedolim within that system primarily with money but also with kavod and power over others concerning conversion.
For these types of crimes not only is his repentance dependent on the facts of his crime being well known- but something more important. When I traveled to America after the Tropper affair I was confronted with an amazing reality - almost no one I met had heard of the disaster. I am not talking about tzadikim and masmidim who are detached from awareness of scandal. The people ignorant of this historic event were people who pride themselves with knowing what goes on in the frum world. As one American godol who was intimately involved in the events put it, it was event that involved too many big people and involved too much of the system to be publicized. In the vernacular -Eternal Jewish Family and Tropper were too big to fail. But he did. And it caused one of the most negative lowering of rabbinic status, respect and authority of anything else in the last 50 years- if not more.
Furthermore the response of gedolim - not only those in involved - was a concerted effort to silence comment and coverup the crimes that were done. There was not a single comment of apology from a single gadol who was involved in the fiasco except to say what happened wasn't really such a big deal.
So for all of these reasons and more I respectfully disagree with monseylite and his "let's be adult in our midos" approach.
If he has any actual sources that say that this event should be erased from our collective memory, that it serves no purpose to remind the public periodically what happened and that it is wrong to Tropper (who to the best of my knowledge is not a baal teshuva in this matter) to remind him of his past when warning others of what can happened when the rabbinic system loses its transparency and is concerned primarily with power, influence and money - please educate us.
Those who are ignorant of history are condemned to repeat it.
The Torah prescribes punishment for crimes that serve as a warning and consciousness raising exercise so that the crimes are not done again.
As Rav Moshe Feinstein put it - "even if a murderer did genuine teshuva - he is still executed." It is still publicized that he was a murderer or any other type of criminal - even though this has disastrous consequences on his family.
Update: Rabbi Micha Berger wrote: Dr Marvin Schick's email address is on his blog, so it took no work to contact him and ask. Here was his reply:
Leib Tropper does not teach at the Rabbi Jacob Joseph School on Staten Island and to my knowledge has never taught there. Nor does he hold any other position at the school. I hope that this makes the matter clear.
===========================
I was recently given a shock when someone sent me a page from Rabbi Tropper's Blog where he proclaims in the upper right hand corner that he is currently an "Educator at the Yeshivas Rabbeinu Yaakov Yosef Elementary School". That is where his father taught first grade for 30 years. He also notes that "He is involved in the Character First project, which promotes good character in young people
At the time that the tapes of R' Tropper were circulating the internet and it was clear that he was involved in behavior incompatible with being a spiritual leader - someone approached a gadol who was associated with Eternal Jewish Family and asked him what he was doing to remove him from leadership of the group. The gadol unsurprisingly wasn't convinced that he was guilty but said that even if he were guilty - so what? A shikse is not an issur doreissa. He was then asked - well how could he be a rosh yeshiva? The gadol incredibly answerered that even if he was guilty as charged but since he was not teaching his students immoral behavior or encouraging them to do so - there was no need to remove him!
Basically I am asking this as a question - not claiming that this as the halacha for him. The facts of what has happened are public knowledge for most of my readers and Rav Sternbuch had told me to publicize the facts of his misdeeds
Has the scandal been so successfully covered up that in fact there is no problem with him having an official position of a Torah teacher to children? Would you want him to teach Torah to your children or be the rav of your shul? Or alternatively even if it is assumed that he has done teshuva [which isn't certain since he has not publicly confessed to his misdeeds] does that erase all that has happened?
When it comes to picking a shliach tzibor there are those who prohibit picking one who had sinned intentional - even if he did teshuva because of the reputation
Shulchan Aruch (O.C. 53:5): ... Rema: ... One who has sinned unwittingly for example he accidentally killed someone and repented - it is permitted for him to be shliach tzibor. However if he did it on purpose he can not be the shliach tzibor despite the teshuva because he has already acquired a bad name prior to doing teshuva.
The example of Rabbi Meir and his rebbe who sinned is also not clearly related to the present case since Acher never did teshuva - or at least not until the end of his life.
Bottom line. Can a person who has been involved in a major scandal involving major sins and chilul hashem - ever be given a job as a teacher or spiritual leader?