scanned from current edition of HaShavuah
Friday, December 5, 2008
Anusim & Male genetic origin
NYTimes reports news which has no halachic ramifications:
The genetic signatures of people in Spain and Portugal provide new and explicit evidence of the mass conversions of Sephardic Jews and Muslims to Catholicism in the 15th and 16th centuries after Christian armies wrested Spain back from Muslim control, a team of geneticists reports.
Twenty percent of the population of the Iberian Peninsula has Sephardic Jewish ancestry and 11 percent have DNA reflecting Moorish ancestors, the geneticists have found. Historians have debated how many Jews converted and how many chose exile. “One wing grossly nderestimates the number of conversions,” said Jane S. Gerber, an expert on Sephardic history at the City University of New York.
The finding bears on two different views of Spanish history, said Jonathan S. Ray, a professor of Jewish studies at Georgetown University. One, proposed by the 20th-century historian Claudio Sánchez-Albornoz, holds that Spanish civilization is Catholic and other influences are foreign; the other sees Spain as having been enriched by drawing from all three of its historical cultures, Catholic, Jewish and Muslim.
The study, based on an analysis of Y chromosomes, was conducted by biologists led by Mark A. Jobling of the University of Leicester in England and Francesc Calafell of the Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona. They developed a Y chromosome signature for Sephardic men by studying Sephardic Jewish communities in places where Jews migrated after being expelled from Spain in 1492 to 1496. They also characterized the Y chromosomes of the Arab and Berber army that invaded Spain in A.D. 711 from data on people living in Morocco and Western Sahara. [...]
Thursday, December 4, 2008
Anusim magazine - in Spanish
The following is from a Spanish magazine that deals with Anusim. This is the Google translation.
"Where was thought that there were only ashes which the wind was charged to disperse them, sparking a fire appear thousandth of the Hebrew people, the descendants of Abraham through the Bnei Anusim arise everywhere expressing his desire to return to remain part the ancestral chain. " J.Magazine
"Anusim" (Hebrew: אנוסים), the plural for "anus" means "forced" in Hebrew. Este es el término legal rabínico aplicado a un Judío que ha sido forzado a abandonar el Judaísmo en contra de su voluntad, y quien hace todo lo que está en su poder para continuar practicando el judaísmo bajo la condición de coerción. This is the legal term applied to a Rabbinic Jew who has been forced to abandon Judaism against their will, and who does everything in its power to continue practicing Judaism under the condition of coercion. El término se deriva de aquel en el Talmud , “aberrá be’ones” [TB Abodá Zará 54a]. The term derives from the one in the Talmud, "Aberra be'ones" [TB Abode Zara 54th].
"Certainly, when it comes to the lineage, all the people of Israel are brothers. We are all children of a father, the rebels (reshaim) and the criminals, heretics (meshumadim) and forced (anusim), and proselytes ( guerim) that are attached to the house of Jacob. These are all Israelis. Even if left DS or denied or violated His Law, the yoke of the law is still on his shoulders and will never be removed from them. " R. She‘adyá ben Maimon ibn Danan (16th c.), Khemdah Genuzah , 15b She'adyá ben Maimon ibn Danan (16th c.), Khemdah Genuzah, 15b
Wednesday, December 3, 2008
Descendants of Anusim IV /Nancy replies
Nancy replies to comments made a few months ago in Desendants of marranos anusim III
Dear Bloggers/Daas Torah,
I have not checked this site in a very long time and was surprised at the attention my story received and the comments left. They are interesting and thought provoking. I would like to leave a response to a couple of the comments that may clarify just a point or two for whatever it may (or may not be worth), in connection with differences in Catholic ritual and Marrano Jewish identity:
"Marrano" is a Spanish word. (Small point.) Everyone who speaks Spanish knows it. Even in the Sephardi Heritage (Orthodox) Program in Jerusalem we are taught in the seminary that this word was given to the Jews who refused to eat pig. I assume our rabbis and our Sephardi History teachers know the subject, for this is what they teach. Older Spanish people normally know about this. It's a fascinating point made but if it's Arabic, it still wouldn't change a thing.
And, I assume you know Spanish people have two names, father's and mother's, the mother's name is placed at the end. We DO follow the mother's line and pull the records of her mother, her mother's mother...etc. It takes a long time because the records are handwritten and mostly owned by the Church of Spain. It's a huge task and 8 generations is more than most Ashkenazim have available. People normally don't have to go back 20 generations. The Church of Spain kept their eyes on Jewish families. They recorded the names of the families. All branches of my family are recorded upon the census of the Jews from the Church of Spain. Since the list exists I was more concerned about marriage after their arrival in the Americas.
Much information is known from the region the family comes from. For instance, Majorca and the Canary Islands were typically where the Marranos fled while awaiting passage to the New World. It was often a long wait and generations were born there until money was raised for the passage. Ships usually stopped at the Canary Islands on their way out to the Caribbean. It is very, very probable that anyone coming from these particular islands are escaping Catholic persecution. This is historical.
The custom of touching the door is completely different than that of touching wood to symbolize the "cross"....especially since this family did not allow crosses in their homes! A blessing spoken while touching the door post is quite different than simply touching wood. A cross in a Spanish country is readily excepted everywhere ....except in a Jewish home! Had the idea been to "touch the wood of the cross"....why not just have a cross???
Our women wore The Star of David under their garments. (They could have worn a cross.) Our family was very proud of being Jewish even though it was not public.
Spanish countries do not immerse. Spanish countries fall under "The Pope of Rome", not Orthodox, as the blogger mentioned could be a reason for immersion. Protestants immerse. Roman Catholics (for centuries) have used the "insertion method"...they pour the water upon the forehead for baptism. This baptism is done ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, whether Catholic OR Protestant OR Orthodox...any Christian, ONLY ONCE...not monthly! Puerto Rico is strictly Roman Catholic...they do not immerse. Only Jews immerse regularly. Christians do not. Originally baptism for the "forgiveness of sin", as they say, was performed late in life, (after they had all their fun), because it could only be given once in your lifetime.
I neglected to mention that my family spoke a "different type of Spanish" referred to as Ladino. We called it "the old Spanish". It comes from not being exposed to mainstream Spanish. It died out in our village 2 generations back. My father and mother remember it. I think it is fair to say that anyone who speaks Ladino is Jewish.
Also, many rabbis have reviewed the documents and are convinced. I agree with the bloggers and Daas Torah that not everyone is an expert and there are many considerations in Jewish Law. It's a complicated situation. Some of these details don't really matter so much and not all Marrano families have as strong ties with their Jewish identities. We just happen to be ones that do and we were separated from the rest of the population. It is a little rare.
In the end, we all have to go to the mikveh anyways! The Marranos, the Ethiopians...the difference is whether your natural father's name is on the certificate or "Abraham's". There is a difference in the wording of the immersion ritual. (This small difference means a lot to a Jew.
A Jew is really not supposed to be "converted".) My family went to exile...we are not gentiles.
I often wonder if this influx of Marranos from all over the world since the birth of Israel is what the prophets spoke about in many books and in the morning when we recite..."we will be gathered from all the nations where we were dispersed, even if at the end of the heavens, from there He will gather us and bring us....etc". If this is from G-d what are we doing trying to stop them? Will we have to answer for that? If we are mistaken and are actually hindering Jews from coming home, isn't that ... "bad"? I don't think it's all an accident this is happening at this time in history! Perhaps the events the prophets spoke of are rushing in on us?
Thank you printing my story and all the meaningful feedback.
Nancy
Dear Bloggers/Daas Torah,
I have not checked this site in a very long time and was surprised at the attention my story received and the comments left. They are interesting and thought provoking. I would like to leave a response to a couple of the comments that may clarify just a point or two for whatever it may (or may not be worth), in connection with differences in Catholic ritual and Marrano Jewish identity:
"Marrano" is a Spanish word. (Small point.) Everyone who speaks Spanish knows it. Even in the Sephardi Heritage (Orthodox) Program in Jerusalem we are taught in the seminary that this word was given to the Jews who refused to eat pig. I assume our rabbis and our Sephardi History teachers know the subject, for this is what they teach. Older Spanish people normally know about this. It's a fascinating point made but if it's Arabic, it still wouldn't change a thing.
And, I assume you know Spanish people have two names, father's and mother's, the mother's name is placed at the end. We DO follow the mother's line and pull the records of her mother, her mother's mother...etc. It takes a long time because the records are handwritten and mostly owned by the Church of Spain. It's a huge task and 8 generations is more than most Ashkenazim have available. People normally don't have to go back 20 generations. The Church of Spain kept their eyes on Jewish families. They recorded the names of the families. All branches of my family are recorded upon the census of the Jews from the Church of Spain. Since the list exists I was more concerned about marriage after their arrival in the Americas.
Much information is known from the region the family comes from. For instance, Majorca and the Canary Islands were typically where the Marranos fled while awaiting passage to the New World. It was often a long wait and generations were born there until money was raised for the passage. Ships usually stopped at the Canary Islands on their way out to the Caribbean. It is very, very probable that anyone coming from these particular islands are escaping Catholic persecution. This is historical.
The custom of touching the door is completely different than that of touching wood to symbolize the "cross"....especially since this family did not allow crosses in their homes! A blessing spoken while touching the door post is quite different than simply touching wood. A cross in a Spanish country is readily excepted everywhere ....except in a Jewish home! Had the idea been to "touch the wood of the cross"....why not just have a cross???
Our women wore The Star of David under their garments. (They could have worn a cross.) Our family was very proud of being Jewish even though it was not public.
Spanish countries do not immerse. Spanish countries fall under "The Pope of Rome", not Orthodox, as the blogger mentioned could be a reason for immersion. Protestants immerse. Roman Catholics (for centuries) have used the "insertion method"...they pour the water upon the forehead for baptism. This baptism is done ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, whether Catholic OR Protestant OR Orthodox...any Christian, ONLY ONCE...not monthly! Puerto Rico is strictly Roman Catholic...they do not immerse. Only Jews immerse regularly. Christians do not. Originally baptism for the "forgiveness of sin", as they say, was performed late in life, (after they had all their fun), because it could only be given once in your lifetime.
I neglected to mention that my family spoke a "different type of Spanish" referred to as Ladino. We called it "the old Spanish". It comes from not being exposed to mainstream Spanish. It died out in our village 2 generations back. My father and mother remember it. I think it is fair to say that anyone who speaks Ladino is Jewish.
Also, many rabbis have reviewed the documents and are convinced. I agree with the bloggers and Daas Torah that not everyone is an expert and there are many considerations in Jewish Law. It's a complicated situation. Some of these details don't really matter so much and not all Marrano families have as strong ties with their Jewish identities. We just happen to be ones that do and we were separated from the rest of the population. It is a little rare.
In the end, we all have to go to the mikveh anyways! The Marranos, the Ethiopians...the difference is whether your natural father's name is on the certificate or "Abraham's". There is a difference in the wording of the immersion ritual. (This small difference means a lot to a Jew.
A Jew is really not supposed to be "converted".) My family went to exile...we are not gentiles.
I often wonder if this influx of Marranos from all over the world since the birth of Israel is what the prophets spoke about in many books and in the morning when we recite..."we will be gathered from all the nations where we were dispersed, even if at the end of the heavens, from there He will gather us and bring us....etc". If this is from G-d what are we doing trying to stop them? Will we have to answer for that? If we are mistaken and are actually hindering Jews from coming home, isn't that ... "bad"? I don't think it's all an accident this is happening at this time in history! Perhaps the events the prophets spoke of are rushing in on us?
Thank you printing my story and all the meaningful feedback.
Nancy
Tuesday, December 2, 2008
EJF - Proselytization Seminar/ Baltimore
EJF continues their program of proselytizing intermarried couples
The Eternal Jewish Family is presenting a seminar to educate intermarried couples who are seriously contemplating or seeking a universally accepted conversion. The theme of the seminar is When a Family Commits to Join the Jewish Family. It will be held at the Marriott Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Baltimore, Maryland, December 29-30th, 2008.It is critical that when the commitment to become a full-fledged member of the Jewish people is made, the conversion meets all of the requirements of halacha. Then the union will be recognized by all rabbinic authorities across the globe. Couples, their children and their children'ss children will have the confidence to rely on this Universally Accepted Conversion.
The two-day seminar is similar to the successful seminars for intermarried couples held in Oxnard California, Phoenix, Arizona, and Montreal, Canada. Similar seminars were also held in Israel. Those who wish to attend should be currently seeking a universally accepted conversion, or have sought conversion which has been problematic.
Couples must be referred by the rabbi that they are working with and in most cases the rabbi himself joins the couple at the seminar. The seminar will educate couples on what it means to embark on such a serious and life-changing journey. Couples must be in the early stages of seeking a universally accepted conversion to attend.
The halachic conversion is vital for a family to be fully integrated into the Jewish lifestyle and community. Couples who do not obtain a universally accepted conversion may have problems being accepted into Jewish communities. This includes being unable to register their children in Jewish day schools.
Baltimore Seminar
December 2008
Marriott Baltimore,
Hunt Valley Inn
Seminar Brochure
The latest in our series of seminars for intermarried couples considering a universally accepted conversion will take place at the Marriott Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Baltimore on December 29-30, 2008. The two-day seminar comes on the heels of the successful seminars for intermarried couples in Oxnard, California, Phoenix Arizona, and Montreal Canada.
The theme of the educational seminar in Baltimore is “When a Family Commits to Join the Jewish Family.” It is designed for intermarried couples who have either decided to explore a universally accepted conversion or are in the very early stages of the process.
Sex offenders - Treatment in Charedi society
לפני כחמש שנים פנה הרב יהודה סילמן, דיין בבית דין בבני ברק, לדורון אגסי, עובד סוציאלי דתי, וביקש ממנו עזרה בטיפול בעבריינות מין. הפנייה נשמעה כזעקת "געוואלד", ואגסי - שבעבודתו כמנהל פנימייה לילדים בסיכון בבני ברק הכיר את התחום מקרוב - הציע לטפל בפוגעים. לנגד עיניו עמד הניסיון המוצלח של שירות המבחן לנוער בטיפול בקבוצות, שהוצע לנערים עברייני מין כחלופה למאסר.
ההצעה נפלה על אוזניים כרויות. העיקרון בשיטה הזאת - שלא מרחיקים את העבריינים אל מחוץ לקהילה, כלומר לכלא, ושלא פותחים להם תיק במשטרה - נראה כפתרון שהמנהיגות החרדית יכולה לחיות אתו בשלום. כך, בגיבוי מלא של רבנים, ייסד אגסי את עמותת "שלום בניך" לילדים בסיכון. מאחורי השם המעורפל-משהו, עמדה לראשונה תוכנית חברתית ברורה לחשוף את ממדי עבריינות המין במגזר החרדי, ולטפל בה.
אלימות על רקע מיני מעוררת שאלות קשות מנשוא בחברה שמתהדרת בעליונות מוסרית. נראה שהיה דרוש איש מקצוע כמו אגסי, המשתייך לזרם החרד"לי ושמכיר היטב את גם את העולם החרדי וגם את העולם החילוני, כדי להוביל פריצת דרך. מראהו הישיבתי - ללא נעלי ההתעמלות והכיפה הסרוגה הגדולה היה יכול להיראות חרדי מהשורה - ורגישותו, עוררו אמון רב. הוא פעל למעשה כמתווך בין הקהילה החרדית לד"ר טליה אתגר, מומחית לטיפול בפוגעים בעמותת "עלם" לנוער בסיכון.
ההרתעה - הליכה לכלא
בשבוע שעבר הסתיים קורס ראשון מסוגו לטיפול קבוצתי בפוגעים שיועד למטפלים חרדים, יוזמת שלום בניך בשיתוף עם עלם. הקשר עם עלם נוצר לאחר חמש שנות מגעים עקרים עם שירות המבחן, ותעייה בסבך הביורוקרטיה של משרד הרווחה. מחצית המימון לקורס הושג לבסוף מתרומה (מחברת צ'ק פוינט); משרד הרווחה התחייב להשלים את המימון.
בקורס שנמשך כחצי שנה השתתפו 13 מטפלים. בקרוב יחלו בשלב המעשי: כל זוג מטפלים יעבוד במשך שנה וחצי עם קבוצה של חמישה נערים. הטיפול מתבסס על עימות התוקף עם אחריותו וחינוך להתנהגות מינית בהתאם לקודים של החברה החרדית. המסגרת הקבוצתית נועדה להעניק תמיכה ולחנך לכבוד הדדי.
המועמדים לטיפול הם נערים חרדים שנמצאים במסלול שירות המבחן לנוער או כאלה שלא חלה עליהם חובת דיווח משום שאינם מתאימים לסיווגים הנכללים כיום בחוק. העבודה אתם מותנית בשיתוף פעולה עם פקידת הסעד ועם רבנים. כל מקרה נבחן תחילה על ידי המרכז לאלימות מינית של עלם, ואחר כך עובר הערכת מסוכנות, שלפיה יחולקו הנערים לקבוצות.
גורם ההרתעה, לדברי אגסי, הוא החלופה: הנערים יודעים שאם לא ישתתפו בטיפול, ייפתח להם תיק במשטרה והם יישלחו לכלא. "עבריינות מין קיימת בכל חברה", אומרת אתגר, "והחברה החרדית לא שונה". לדבריה, אין נתונים על היקף התופעה משום שרק מעט מקרים מדווחים למשטרה. זה אחד הקשיים בהתמודדות עם הבעיה. לדבריה, מומחים מייחסים כיום משמעות רבה לתרבות שממנה בא התוקף, ולכן נפתחות כיום קבוצות נפרדות לרוסים, ערבים וחרדים.
[...].
History - The Don Pacifico Incident
Similar anti-Semitic ceremonies persisted through the centuries.
About 150 years ago, something unprecedented happened. The British Empire went to war to defend the rights of one Jew. For tourists with a taste for the bizarre, holiday brochures still advertise an ancient Christian ritual:
To many Christians, Judas represented the quintessential Jew.
As St. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, the most influential early Christian theologian put it in the 4th century C.E., "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."
"The Jews are the most worthless of all men," he wrote. "They are greedy and rapacious.They are murderers of Christ and for killing god there is expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christian may never cease vengeance,and the Jews must live in servitude forever. It is incumbent upon all Christians to hate the Jews."
As the centuries rolled on, Jews began objecting to their burning in effigy.
The annual burning effigy burning in Athens revolted Rothschild. He complained about it to the Prime Minister, John Kolettis, and Kolettis agreed to abolish the custom."Who needs effigies when we've got the real thing?" yelled a swarthy son of the southern sun. "Let's go and teach those Jews a lesson."
But the mob had made a grave mistake….
Monday, December 1, 2008
Mormons targeted for gay marriage ban support
In the nearly four weeks since Election Day, gay activists and thousands of their supporters have rallied outside Mormon temples around the country, protesting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' support for California's Proposition 8, the ballot initiative to make same-sex marriage illegal in the Golden State.
There have been calls to boycott the annual Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah; some activists have called for a boycott of the entire state of Utah. Protesters have defaced some church buildings, and in Arapaho County, Colo., the Sheriff's Office is investigating a possible hate crime — the torching of the Book of Mormon on a church's doorstep.
Even the state of California itself has announced that it is investigating the church's involvement in Proposition 8, which was approved by a vote of 52 percent to 48 percent and, barring a Supreme Court overturn, will ban gay marriage in the state.
There have been no other reports of backlash against other groups that supported Prop 8, notably African-Americans and other churches and religious denominations that turned out in heavy numbers to push through the ban.
Sunday, November 30, 2008
Rabbi & Mrs. Holtzberg HY"D/Reminiscences
Prof. Isaac Balbin shares his personal memories - must read
In the beginning, Reb Gavriel and Rivki had a choice between Melbourne and Mumbai. They chose Mumbai. Hashem planned that our paths would cross one way or another.
Parshas Toldos in Melbourne, Australia has just concluded. It is a cool and quiet evening. After two days of frantic searching, the information I was dreading reached me via SMS on that morning. One of my colleagues in Mumbai had been sending me updates, as were my past students who had travelled to the Chabad House, at my request. I saw the words “we now pray for their souls, I am sorry” flash up momentarily on my phone only to quickly disappear. It was Shabbos and I couldn’t touch my cell phone. Frankly, I didn’t even want to. Instinctively, I knew what had happened—a nightmare on Hormusji Street [...]
Saturday, November 29, 2008
Ramban & his wayward son?
The following story about the Ramban is found in Kav HaYashor chapter 81. Does anyone know of a source for this astounding tale? [see Haaretz]
ספר קב הישר - פרק פא
ראיה שמעתי מעשה נפלא שהרמב"ן ז"ל כתב בספרו דרוש אחד ואמר, "כל בר ישראל שהמיר דתו ועובד איזה ע"ז מן האומות אזי צריך לידע שאותו הבן אינו מזרע ישראל הוא, כי בוודאי הוא מזרע האומות או בן תמורה, ולא היו ימים מועטים עד שהמיר בן אחד מבני הרמב"ן את דתו, ואז שלח האפיפיור אחר הרמב"ן ואמר ראה הדרוש שלך שנדפס מקרוב ועתה נכשל זרעך בדבריך, ואז הלך הרב הרמב"ן ז"ל לביתו סר וזעף וכשבא לביתו היה יושב ובוכה על הארץ והיה מסגף בסיגופים גדולים והיה יותר מצער על הדרוש שהדפיס יותר מצער בנו שהמיר דתו, ולא היה אוכל ושותה כמה ימים, עד שבאה אשתו אליו והיתה מדברת על לבו שלא יהיה בצער כי פעם אחת היתה הולכת לבית הטבילה שהיה רחוק מביתה כשהיה לילה היתה רוצה לילך לבית בעלה אז ראה שר אחד את הוד יפיה וצוה השר לעבדיו שיקחו האשה לביתו והיה השר אונס אותה וממנו התעברה ואם לא תאמיט לי הרי יש אצבע שלו עדיין בידי שגרסתי בשיני את האצבע שלו, וכששמע הרב הרמב"ן ז"ל את דברי אשתו אז קם מהארץ והיה שמח שמחה גדולה ואמר לאשתו נחמתני, אז תכף אזר כגבר חלציו והלך להאפיפיור וספר לו דברים האלה, ותיכף שלח האפיפיור לאותו השר ובא אליו והיה על ידו בית היד שקורין הענטשי'ך וצוה האפיפיור להסיר ההענטשי'ך מעל ידו ולא רצה השר. ואז צוה האפיפיור לעבדיו להסיר בית היד שקורין הענשי"ך בחזקה מעל ידו אז ראה האפיפיור שחסר אצבע אחד מידיו, ושאל אותו מה טיבה של אצבע זו אז הודה השר שפעם אחת היה אונס אשת איש אחת מבני ישראל והיתה האשה גורסת את אצבעו בשיניה, אז אמר הרמב"ן "ראה שהתור' שלנו היא אמת ודברי חכמים ודברי ה' הן אמת".
All men are equal II - Critique & conclusion
What follows is my critique of the discussion between RaP and Rabbi Micha Berger. Pushing aside the smoke and mirrors in RaP's rhetoric it is obvious that his view is simply wrong and he has cited the Maharal out of context. What follows is first the main assertions of both sides with RaP's claim of victory because of his citation of the Maharal's views in chapter 1 of Tiferes Yisroel. Afterwards I discuss the issue and show citations from the Maharal and his student the Tosfos Yom Tov - which clearly reject the understanding that RaP has ascribed to the Maharal. Furthermore the Maharal - and the vast majority of Jewish sages - with the clear exception of the Baal HaTanya - state that all of mankind has a soul which distinguishes them from animals.
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RaP’s original assertion was that non-Jews have no neshma i.e., they are a form of animals – which is in fact the view of the Tanya.
The gentile is NOT a "tinok shenishba" and has NO neshama while the Jew has a 100% holy neshama, which the converting gentile presumably desires.
Doesn't the RAMBAM say somewhere that the difference between a goy and yid is like the difference between a monkey and a human?
2) RaP - when criticized by Rabbi Berger - modified his view by saying that while they have a neshama but it is not as elevated as that of a Jew.
Judaism holds that a non-Jew does not have THAT neshama that a Jew does have and indeed it is exactly THAT neshama that the sincere potential convert wants to have and should/does get upon immersion in the Bais Din's mikva when THAT neshama that he did NOT have enters into him/her upon immersion in the mikva of geirus. That is all I was saying and there was no need of you to move the issue into illogical non-relevant humanistic and globalistic egalitarian drive, when you could have just let the obvious Halachic reality stand without unnecessary questioning by you.
micha said
... Every human being has a neshamah. Proof: "vayipach be'apav nishmas chayim -- and He breated into his [Adam's] nostriles a living neshamah".
RaP responded
Wow. Sure. But not every human being has THE nashama of ADAM KADMON of Gan Eden who was a unique Godly being. But have you not heard of "atem kruyim adam ve'ein umos ha'olam keruyim adam"? ("You [the Jews/Children of Israel] are called [the true] Adam, and not the nations of the world who are not called Adam").
Ok show me where they ALL say that a goy has the EXACT same NESHAMA as a Yid and the Yidden and Goyim are FULLY equal in spiritual make-up IN ALL ASPECTS, which would make the whole process of geirus a totally point-less, hope-less, use-less and soul-less going through the motions procedure.
R' Micha Berger responded
If you would have said that non-Jews lack a second element to their neshamah, I would not have objected.
3) When it was pointed out that RaP had modified his original assertion that non‑Jews have no soul, RaP reverted back to his original assertion and denied ever modifying his position. He then brought a Maharal in the end of the first chapter of Tiferes Yisroel.
micha said...
You're changing your story from saying that non-Jews do not have a neshamah to saying they do not have the same kind of neshamah. I wouldn't have objected had that been your original claim.
RaP countered by saying
Umm, I am not sure where you see this. I am not changing my mind about anything and if you re-read my comments above I say at least five times that a Jew has a neshama and a goy does not.
As is typical in these type of arguments, the importance of winning obscures the truth.
RaP then presented what he called his knock-out punch - the Maharal's comments at the end of Chapter 2 of Tiferes Yisroel
The Maharal explains that what makes and distinguishes adam from other creatures is that the adam has a "Godly nefesh" and those (that is, the Israelites/Jews) who have the "Godly nefesh" they are ready for Godly things like prophecy and ruach hakodesh and he says that THIS MATTER YOU WILL ONLY FIND AMONG THE NATION THAT GOD CHOSE FOR HIMSELF THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ADAM SPECIFICALLY AND COMPLETELY BY VIRTUE THAT THEY POSSESS EVERYTHING THAT ADAM SHOULD HAVE, WHO IS SPECIFICALLY CALLED ADAM BECAUSE HE HAS THE GODLY QUALITY AND HE IS NOT OF THE NATURAL ORDER AND THEREFORE ATEM KRUIM ADAM/THE JEWS ARE ADAM AND THAT IS WHY THE MITZVOS THAT ARE GODLY ACTS ARE FOR YISROEL IN THERE ENTIRETY/PERFECTION
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Anyone who studies the Maharal knows that it is necessary to see what he says throughout his writings to understand what his views are on any issue. I am surprised that RaP who claims to be familiar with the Maharal missed this rather obvious and well known point. The Maharal has the tendency of making extreme assertions which are then modified elsewhere. A listing of where he discusses the relationship between Jews and non-Jews can be found in the indices of Rabbi Hartman’s critical edition of the Maharal. For example in the second section of Be’er HaGolah footnotes 562-563.
It is clear from these sources that the Maharal does not agree with the views of the Baal HaTanya that non-Jews have only an animal – not a human soul. Furthermore RaP totally misunderstands the view of the Rambam – as the Tosfos Yom Tov I have cited below explains. The Rambam did not distinguish between Jews and non-Jews. He distinguished between learned people and the ignorant. He states in Moreh Nevuchim that ignorant people are like monkeys and elsewhere (3:51) he states that the highest level of man is the philosopher (not the talmid chocham). We find a related understanding in the Chovas HaLevavos (1:2): The philosopher was right when he said that, ‘No one is truly able to serve G‑d except the prophet of the generation by his nature or the greatest philosopher through his acquired wisdom. All the others are actually worshiping something else because they cannot conceive of a being who is not a composite rather than a true unity.
In sum. From what I have seen, it is only the view of the Baal HaTanya that only Jews have a soul which distinguishes than from animals while everyone else acknowledges the humanity of all men and talks about gradations which are primarily the result of accepting the Torah. Consequently any non-Jew who either wants to keep the mitzvos or wants to convert - is able to. The same is not said concerning a monkey.
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Pirkei Avos (3:14): HE [ALSO] USED TO SAY: BELOVED IS MAN92 IN THAT HE WAS CREATED IN THE IMAGE [OF GOD]. [IT IS A MARK OF] SUPERABUNDANT LOVE [THAT] IT WAS MADE KNOWN TO HIM THAT HE HAD BEEN CREATED IN THE IMAGE [OF GOD], AS IT IS SAID: FOR IN THE IMAGE OF GOD MADE HE MAN.93
The Maharal states in his commentary to this Mishna essential the view that R’ Micha Berger has been saying all along. That non-Jews are also in G‑d’s image tzelem Elokim but that after the Giving of the Torah – the spiritual perfection is epitomized by Jews. However he clearly states at the end of his commentary to this mishna:
“ Even though the mishna says, ‘beloved is the Man’ this does not include all of the species of man. That is because our Sages have already said that ‘you are called Man and the nations of the world are not called ‘Man”. As if the perfection of Creation is limited to man i.e., to Jews and not the nations as we have explained many times. It is the Jews who are specfically call Man and this is something extremely clear. Even though this level is not exclusively found only in Jews – as is alluded to by the fact that the mishna hears says ‘beloved is the man’ and it doesn’t say ‘beloved are the Jews’. But there is still a significant difference between Jews and non-Jews. Even though this characteristic is specifically applied to Jews, nevertheless the image of Man is also found amongst the nations of the world. The point is that the epitome of this image of Man is not found amongst the nations. Nevertheless we find this image of Man amongst all the peoples of the world. However relative to the Jews it is not considered of significance. That is why the mishna doesn’t say ‘beloved are the Jews who were created in the image of G-d.’ Furthermore when man was created this characteristic was existed in Adam and Noach – even though they were not characterized as Yisroel (Jews). And if after G‑d chose the Jews this image was reduced in the non-Jews, nevertheless the Divine image still exists in them as they are Man. This is quite obvious."
ספר דרך חיים - פרק ג משנה יד
חביב האדם. מקשין על זה שאמר חביב האדם שנברא בצלם אלהים וגו', ואחר כך אמר חבה יתירה נודעת לו וכו', מה בא להוסיף שאמר חבה יתירה נודעת לו בודאי מאחר שנברא בצלם אלהים דבר זה נודע לו. וכן קשיא אצל חביבין ישראל שנקראו בנים, כי מה בא להוסיף במה שאמר חבה יתירה נודעת לו ובודאי כיון שנקראו בנים למקום דבר זה נודע לו, ועוד קשיא שמביא ראיה כי בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם והיה לו להביא ראיה ממה שאמר ויברא אלהים את האדם בצלמו, וכן קשה דמביא בנים אתם לד' אלהיכם ולמה לא הביא מקרא דכתיב (שמות ד') בני בכורי ישראל, ועוד קשיא שאמר חביבין ישראל שנתן להם כלי חמדה וגו', כי לפי הנראה כי הכל הוא חבה אחת כי בשביל שהם בנים למקום נתן להם התורה שהיא כלי חמדה, ועוד מאי כלי חמדה דקאמר כי למה קראו התורה כלי חמדה. ועוד עיקר הפירוש של בצלם אלהים נברא האדם לא ידענו מה הוא הצלם הזה, שאם פירוש הצלם תאר הגוף דבר זה אין לומר כלל שיהיה מיוחס אל השם יתברך תאר וצורת הגוף, ואם פירושו שנברא האדם בצלם אלהים היינו השכל שבאדם וכמו שפירש הרמב"ם ז"ל הצלם שנזכר בכתוב, דבר זה אין מוכח כך, כי מה שנאמר כאן חביב האדם על כרחך פירושו שהוא חביב אף מן המלאכים, כי מה שהאדם חביב מן הבהמה וכי דבר זה צריך לומר ועל כרחך פירושו שהאדם חביב אף מן המלאכים וכמו שיתבאר, ובודאי יש במלאכים דעת וחכמה. ואפילו אם תאמר כי לא בא לומר רק כי יש לאדם המעלה היתירה שהוא בתחתונים, מכל מקום היה זה נכלל במה שאמר חביב האדם שנתן להם התורה שהתורה בודאי חכמה ודעת ולכך מוכרח לומר כי דבר זה ענין בפני עצמו:
...
ואף שאמר חביב האדם, אין זה כולל כל מין האדם, כי כבר אמרו ז"ל כי אתם קרוים אדם ואין האומות קרוים אדם, כאלו שלימות הבריאה שהוא לאדם בפרט, הוא לישראל לא לאומות, כאשר בארנו פעמים הרבה, מה שישראל בפרט נקראים אדם, והוא דבר ברור מאד. ואף כי מעלה זאת אינה רק לישראל בלבד, אמר על זה חביב האדם ולא אמר חביבין ישראל, וזה כי הפרש גדול יש, אף כי גם מעלה זו היא לישראל בפרט, מ"מ יש צורת אדם באומות ג"כ, רק שעיקר צורת אדם לא נמצא באומות, מ"מ נמצא הצלם הזה אצל שאר אומות, רק שאינו נחשב לכלום ולכך לא אמר חביבין ישראל שנבראו בצלם אלהים. ועוד כי כאשר נברא האדם היה מעלה זאת לאדם ולנח אף כי אינם בשם ישראל נקראים ואם אחר שבחר השי"ת בישראל נתמעט הצלם הזה אצל האומות, מ"מ הצלם האלהי הוא שייך לאדם במה שהוא אדם ודבר זה מבואר:
The Tosfos Yom Tov – who was perhaps the most important student of the Maharal says the same thing – but specifically rejects the understand that RaP is reading into the Maharal in Tiferes Yisroel:
תוי"ט (אבות ג:יד): חביב אדם שנברא בצלם חבה יתירה וכו' שנאמר בצלם אלהים עשה אתהאדם - פירש"י חביב אדם שנברא בצלם. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו. ע"כ. ובכל אדם אמר ר"ע. וכמו שהוא הראיה שממנו הביא שהוא נאמר לבני נח לא לבני ישראל לבדם ורצה ר"ע לזכות את כל אדם אף לבני נח. ומאמר מלא אמר הרמב"ם בפ"ח מהלכות מלכים [הלכה י']. וז"ל צוה משה רבינו ע"ה מפי הגבורה לכוף את כל באי העולם לקבל מצות שנצטוו בני נח. וכל מי שלא יקבל יהרג והמקבל אותם הוא הנקרא גר תושב בכ"מ וכו' כל המקבל שבע מצות ונזהר לעשותן. הרי זה מחסידי אומות העולם ויש לו חלק לעוה"ב. והוא שיקבל אותן ויעשה אותן. מפני שצוה בהן הקב"ה בתורה. והודיענו ע"י מרע"ה שבני נח מקודם נצטוו בהן. אבל אם עשאן מפני הכרע הדעת אין זה גר תושב ואינו מחסידי אומות העולם. ולא [צ"ל אלא] מחכמיהם. עכ"ל. ומעתה אני תמה למה זה רחקה הדרך מן המפרשים ולא רצו ללכת בה לפרש דברי ר"ע שאמר מאמרו כלפי כל אדם כי אם לישראל בלבד. ונסמכו במאמרם ז"ל אתם קרויים אדם וכו' והרי זה דרש על דרש. ובזה נכנסו בדוחק ענין הצלם. ובפי' הכתוב שהביא לראיה. אבל בעיני זו הדרך דרך סלולה ומרווחת כי בא ר"ע להיישיר לכל באי עולם כאשר נצטוינו מפי מרע"ה כדברי הרמב"ם. ואם בכפיית חרב הרג ואבדן נצטוינו כ"ש בכפיית דברים. להמשיך לבם אל רצון קונם וחפץ צורם. יזכרם לטובה. ושהם חביבים שנבראו בצלם להורות נתן בלבם. כי זאת תורת האדם לעשות חוקי אלהים ומשפטיו מצד אשר הוא צוה כדברי הרמב"ם דהואיל שחבבו לבראו בצלמו. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו כפירש"י. והשתא אתי שפיר דנקט להך קרא. אע"פ שיש כמה מקראות הקודמים אליו שנאמר נעשה אדם בצלמנו. אבל זה המקרא הוא שנאמר גבי המצות שנצטוו בהם. לכך הביא לזה הכתוב שכן אמרו הש"י בטעם המצוה אשר צוה אותם כי בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם ולבני נח נאמר הכתוב. ולבני נח אמר ר"ע דבריו הללו. ואתי נמי שפיר שאמר שנברא בצלם. וחסר הנסמך שהוא אלהים הנאמר בכתוב. ואילו גבי בנים אמר שנקראו בנים למקום. והיינו טעמא שזו ג"כ מדברי התוכחה להוכיחם ולומר שהם נבראו בצלם ובאיזה צלם נבראו בצלם אלהים כאומר שהבריאה היתה בצלם אלהים אבל הואיל ואינם מקיימים מצותיו ואע"פ שאם מקיימים אינם מקיימים מפני אשר צוה אותם אלהים. הנה הם חסרים מתואר צלם אלהים. ועוד מענין צלם בעצמו שהוא כפירוש הרמב"ם בתחלת ספר המורה שהוא ההשגה השכלית אשר בו יתייחד האדם. ונתעצם באמתת מה שהוא והנה תכלית ההשגה השכלית הזאת הוא ידיעת אלהים כפי האפשר בכח האדם והשגתו. ולפיכך נתחכם החכם השלם הזה שלא אמר אצלם בצלם אלהים לפי שהם חסרים באמת מידיעת אלהים והכתוב שאומר בצלם אלהים עשה לומר שכן נבראו כלומר שהיא היתה כונת הבריאה באדם שיהא לו השגה שכלית מגעת לידיעת אלהים. אבל לפי שבאמת לא ידעו ולא יבינו ובחשיכה יתהלכו ולא יצאה הכונה אל הפועל מן הראוי שיאמר שנבראו בצלם. ולא בצלם אלהים אחרי שהכונה שהיא השגת אלהים לא נשלמה. ואין בהם אלא הכנה בלבד. ואותה ראוי להקרא צלם בלתי הנסמך שהוא אלהים. זה נראה לי בפי' מאמר ר"ע. ולפי זה מדוקדק יפה המשנה שאחר זו הכל צפוי וכו' כמו שאבאר שם בס"ד. ועוד שגם בזה יש ג"כ חבה יתירה נודעת בישראל שאע"פ שכבר חבבם כמו לכל אדם בצלם אלהים אשר עשהו בו. אעפ"כ לא זז מחבבן עוד ביתר שאת ויתר עז שנקראו בנים למקום. וזה שאת ומעלה יתירה. ובכלי חמדה היא התורה אשר נתן להם. וזהו עוז. כענין שנאמר (תהלים כ"ט) ה' עוז לעמו יתן. [שדרשוהו ז"ל בפרק פרת חטאת [בזבחים דף קט"ז] על התורה]:
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