העמק דבר בראשית פרק יב פסוק ב (פרשת לך לך)
ואגדלה שמך. אפי' מי שלא יהיה באמונתו לעבוד את ה' המיוחד, לא יהיה כמו שארי אמונות שונות דכל כת מבזה ומכחיש ומקטין אמונה השניה, אבל לא כן תהיה אמונת אברם, דאפי' מי שלא ירצה לעמוד באמונתו, ידע ויבין כי אמונת אברם לאל עליון גדולה, אלא שטעונה פרישות מתאוה וכדומה שלא הכל נתרצו לכך, וא"כ נתגדל בזה שמו של אברם שזכה לאמונה ועבודת אל עליון:
Netziv (Bereishis 12:02) G-d said to Abraham I will make your name Great - Even among those who don't share your faith in serving G-d, This is not like the various other religions which every one degrades and insults other religions, The religion of Abraham was different in that he did not attack those who did not accept his religious beliefs but even so they were all aware that Avrahan had a superior religion. In this sense his name was made great in that he had a superior religion in serving G-d
Is the Netziv as highly regarded as his contemporaries in the Litvish world? My impression is that he is seen as a Mizrochi, like his son Meir bar Ilan.
ReplyDeleteHis ideas are very modern.
Same goes with the Meshech chochma.of course they are very great, I wish we still had such gaonim.
I believe historically, at least in the ancient world, it's been the opposite of what Netziv wrote.
ReplyDeleteFor example, Romans were generally very tolerant and respectful of other religions, with a couple of exceptions.
Judasim, on the other hand, always treated any avodah zarah with nothing but complete contempt.
“Religious Tolerance- Netziv” Mikey, you got it backwards. Yes. Abraham made “all aware that Avraham had a superior religion.” Allow me today the 4rth day of Succoth the Ushpizin is Joseph. We read (Deuteronomy 34:17
Deleteדברים פרשת וזאת הברכה פרק לג פסוק יז
בְּכוֹר שׁוֹרוֹ הָדָר לוֹ וְקַרְנֵי רְאֵם קַרְנָיו בָּהֶם עַמִּים יְנַגַּח יַחְדָּו אַפְסֵי אָרֶץ וְהֵם רִבְבוֹת אֶפְרַיִם וְהֵם אַלְפֵי מְנַשֶּׁה:
מדרש הגדול דברים פרשת וזאת הברכה פרק לג פסוק יז
בהם עמים ינגח. וכי כל העמים כיבש יהושע, והלא לא כיבש אלא שלשים ואחד מלכים, אלא שכיבש מלכים שולטים מסוף העולם ועד סופו.
Baba Kama 17a He is worthy of the inheritance of two tribes: He is worthy of an inheritance like Joseph, as it is written: Joseph is a fruitful bough . . . whose branches run over the wall [Gen XLIX, 22]; he is also worthy of the inheritance of Issachar, as it is written: Issachar is a strong ass [Ibid. 14]. There are some who say, His enemies will fall before him, as it is written: With them he shall push the people together, to the ends of the earth [Deut. XXXIII, 17].
17His firstling bullock, majesty is his; And his horns are the horns of the wild-ox; With them he shall gore the peoples all of them, even the ends of the earth; And they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, And they are the thousands of Manasseh.
With Joseph’s horns [missiles, my interpretation] Joseph will gore the peoples all of them even at the ends of the earth. Mikey, the Romans adopted Christianity outlawed Torah, murdered Rabbi Akiva etc. Today we shoot missiles at our enemies to the ends of the earth [Deut. XXXIII, 17]. We killed Sinwar etc with our missiles, the horns of Joseph.
Religious intolerance was the norm throughout history. Not only was Europe decimated by religious wars. this was the basis of Crusades and even America was settled by those like the Puritans who could not tolerate other religious beliefs. I guess you think Chanuka had nothing to do with religious intolerance?. Even Roman tolerance was predicated on accepting the Roman gods.
DeletePrevious anonymous comment is by Mikey.
DeletePretty sure Chanukah is a good rebuttal to the claim that ancient religions were tolerant.
DeleteRemember that, as a general rule, when a country was conquered, the winners wiped out the fighting age males and converted the rest to their religion.
GI - I Chanukah is an exception that lasted a few years. Of course ancient religions weren't 100% tolerant 100% of the time 100% of all other religions. But 99.999% they were, including Judaism. On the other hand, Judaism is 0% tolerant of any avodah zarah. But I thought I made that clear in my posts.
DeleteGI - "Remember that, as a general rule, when a country was conquered, the winners wiped out the fighting age males and converted the rest to their religion".
That's bunk, as in almost never happened when it came to major powers.
A few examples. Bavel vs Jews, Persia vs Jews, Rome vs Jews, Alexander Great vs Jews. Come to think of it, Persia vs everyone else, Alexander Grreat vs everyone else, Rome vs everyone else. Even Sanheriv exiled people rather than killed them.
A bit simplistic.
DeleteRemember that before the age of empires, Israel was mostly involved in turf wars with local small nations. When the Torah talks about wiping out the Canaanites, people today get outraged because they don't realize this was a standard war tactic that everybody practiced at the time.
As for your examples, yes Assyria exiled people but that was after killing most of the locals off. Same with Babylonia. The vast majority of Israelities in Judah were killed and only a small proportion survived to be exiled. Persia was remarkable tolerant, true but they're the exception. The Greeks expected everyone to Hellenize and again, the Romans demands acknowledgement of their religious supremacy.
"Remember that before the age of empires"
DeleteI remember that like yesterday, but that's not what I wrote about.
"Assyria exiled people but that was after killing most of the locals off." Bunk.
Bavel - "The vast majority of Israelities in Judah were killed". Total Bunk.... okay I'll bite. where did you see that?
Persians... you agree about persians.
"The Greeks expected everyone to Hellenize". Yet again Bunk.
"and again, the Romans demands acknowledgement of their religious supremacy." And again guess what? Total unadulterated Bunk.
And just to repeat your other piece of bunk, no one was forced to convert to any of their religions in any of these cases.
I saw it in Tanach. Massacres, countless bodies left for the buzzards to eat. Did you miss the descriptions of the starvation and cannibalism? And do you think the survivors went into galos on air conditioned buses? A mass march through the desert with minimal food and water and you don't think most of the survivors died en route.
DeletePretty sure your historical knowledge is not up to snuff.
“Religious Tolerance- Netziv” Brilliant beautiful thanks for this post. Today we read (also in Shmoneh Esreh for Musaf) Numbers 29: 26And on the fifth day nine bullocks, two rams, fourteen he-lambs of the first year without blemish; 27and their meal-offering and their drink-offerings for the bullocks, for the rams, and for the lambs, according to their number, after the ordinance; 28and one he-goat for a sin-offering; beside the continual burnt-offering, and the meal-offering thereof, and the drink-offering thereof. The Offerings on Succoth is for atonement for all mankind. I’m a Kohen. I did Priestly Blessings (for all mankind) twice today. Yes I support Zionism’s goals of building up the state would also include supporting it philanthropically, diplomatically, politically and morally.
ReplyDelete