https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-729200?dicbo=v2-907c06e56605937dab776638e6a0eb48
Israeli Nimrod Shalom, a 41-year-old owner of a start-up company and a new immigrant from the United States who previously lived in Ramat Gan, was sentenced last week in the US to seven years in prison, following a pedophilia charge from 2016.
It puts a new spin on the halakha that we're not allowed to take legal cases to the non-Jewish court system. Time was, it was because our legal system was superior. Now it's because we don't want actual justice to be done.
ReplyDeleteThe Israeli courts aren't a Jewish court system.
ReplyDelete100% correct.
ReplyDeleteIn Chutz l'Aretz, at least, the Battei Din are there to make certain that justice will NOT be done.
This is a feature, not a bug.
And thank Heavens. In a Jewish court system they would ask for witnesses? No? No witnesses? Guess you're innocent, buddy. Sorry kid, your story means nothing.
ReplyDeleteSo you disagree with Jewish Law.
ReplyDeleteNoted.
No, I don't but I do think that right now it's just not functional the way it should be. A system which protects horrible criminals and claims to be virtuous is not a viable system.
ReplyDeleteGedolim as recent as rav Elyashiv ztl and rav kanievsky ztl already said go to the secular authorities. Note that.
ReplyDeleteWhat "King's Court" are you referring to and where in the historical record do you see there was a separate, parallel, court system outside Beis Din in the times of Dovid Hamelech and on?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the King's Court appears in the Bible, the most famous example is Shlomo HaMelech and the two prostitutes.
ReplyDeleteFor a comprehensive review, read the well referenced chapter in R' David Bleich's Contemporary Halakhic Problems vol 4. Could we also put this as a permanent link at the top of this blog because this is the third time I've had to point this out?
Rav Elyashiv and Rav Kanievsky stated in their Psak on this issue (in response to the famous Shaila from Rav Feivel Cohen) that only if a Rov/Posek first determines that there's “raglayim ladavar” can the authorities be informed. Otherwise, not.
ReplyDeleteNowhere does it say that the King's Court can retry someone acquitted by Beis Din, thereby violating double jeopardy.
ReplyDeleteNope. They said if anyone is affected, go quietly. Not to ask a posek
ReplyDeleteNo, that's not correct. There is no prohibition of double jeopardy because they are two different systems. The guy would walk into the Sanhedrin, grin and point out that there were no kosher witnesses to his various crimes, and walk free. On his way home, he'd be picked up by the regular police and taken to the King's Court where he would actually get convicted through a different procedure. Remember, after all, that the king gets to make up his own rules to maintain order in the kingdom.
ReplyDeleteI've forgotten the name, but there was a parallel court system where. a suspect would be jailed and given food that explodes inside him. DT mentioned this.
ReplyDeleteThey said absolutely a Posek must rule before it is permissible.
ReplyDeleteWhere do you see in any Torah sources that anyone would be retried for the same allegation after he was already tried previously?
ReplyDeletePlenty of sources
ReplyDeletehazamah of witnesses for example
Nope
ReplyDeleteCheck Rav Gershon edelstein.
He also said anyone affected, go to authorities.
Rav Eidensohn has written much on this.
https://daattorah.blogspot.com/2010/04/reporting-abuse-does-not-require.html?m=1
ReplyDeleteTalmud mentions it. It's called "Kippah" because they put him in a small domed structure.
ReplyDeleteYes, but the Gemara pre-empted them by saying Dina d'malchusa dina.
ReplyDeleteThen there is the Derashot haRan, which brings a presentation on the King's Law.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.sefaria.org/Derashot_HaRan.11.6?lang=bi
Yeah, like I said, it's like the Torah said "Well the Chachamim need something to do all do so let's give them their own court system that won't actually accomplish anything but will keep them busy thinking they're doing something but in the meantime, the king over there will keep society actually functioning."
ReplyDelete