https://www.aish.com/atr/Mitzvah_to_Live_in_Israel.html
The general approach today is that if both places (Israel and the
Diaspora) are equally "livable," one should make the effort to live in
Israel. Every year, approximately 3,000 Jews make aliyah from North
America – 90 percent of them religious.
The threat of persecution by the zionists of religious Jewry, whether forcible draft into the immoral IDF or whether general anti-religious fever and harassment, makes it less livable.
ReplyDeletePersecution - eg funding shuls, yeshivas, avreichim, workplace closed on shabbat and yom tov by law..... etc. Perhaps you prefer galus
ReplyDeleteHow many Jews died in Miami? More than from hamas missiles.
So when are you coming?
ReplyDeleteSoon , G-d willing
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who went on the BT roller coaster and went through his "All Zionism is bad!" phase. He matured and realized that there is no better place for a Jew to be a Jew than in Israel.
ReplyDeleteGalus was so good , wasn't it?
ReplyDeletethe flipside of that - some ex satmar OTDs, who became secular, and iw as chatting to them online. They were saying how bad the State of Israel is, and how badly they treat the arabs! So they were not able to shake off the influence totally!
ReplyDeleteWhere are you planning to live?
ReplyDeleteI lived in Yerushalayim previously, so that would be my first choice. But i can't say when exactly I might be going.
ReplyDeleteI wonder which neighborhood in Yerushalayim, would be most suited for you.
ReplyDeleteYou need to remember, that the demographics of Yerushalayim have changed immensely in the decades since you originally learned there.
Would Efrat or Ra'anana be more suitable for you?
Efrat, well i was at Brovender /riskin yeshiva, i can't say i liked living there. Raanana, not sure, never been there, i have a cousin there but he is broiges with me.
ReplyDeleteYerushalayim has great air, and i have some good friends there. I know things keep changing.
I was even toying with the idea of Geula neighbourhood, not thst i would fit in, but just to be surrounded with frumkeit 24/7.
Money is also a factor, the prices per sq foot in prime neighbourhoods of Y-m are similar to prime london. (prime from a real estate perspective).
But the Beauty of Jerusalem is that it is religious even in a general neighbourhood. There are no secular areas - perhaps naiot. French hill used to be secular, i hear it is frum now.
Rabbi Cardozo is in bayit veGan, as was Rav David bar Hayyim, who has unfortunately moved to the shtachim somewhere.
ReplyDeleteIsrael is in galus
ReplyDeleteWar is peace
ReplyDeleteDark is light
Bitter is sweet
One is many
Interesting philosophy. Now I understand all your comments better.
ReplyDeleteNo, perhaps you understand your own philosophy better, but perhaps not.
ReplyDeleteYour statement of Israel being in galus is an oxymoron.
ReplyDeleteBut that is how your approach to reality is.
it reminds me of the meshichist cult of chabad. when asked about the beit hamikdash ( moshiach is required to build it) they said 770 (Brooklyn) is the beit hamikdash.
By making absurd comments from day to day, you are simply part of another cult.
Nope!
ReplyDeleteIt is elemental haskofa
You really mistakenly think Israel is not in golus!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora
ReplyDeleteTheodore Herzl and his follows thought that the establishment of a Jewish state would put an end to the diasporic exile, Ahad Ha-am thought to the contrary that such a state's function would be to 'sustain Jewish nationhood' in the diaspora.[21]
Yo obviously consider the rambam to be secular. He said there is no difference between golus and yemei moshiach other than shibbud malchius.
ReplyDeleteUnlike Pinsker, Ginsberg did not believe in political Zionism, which he fought, 'with a vehemence and austerity which embittered that whole period'.[7] Instead he hailed the spiritual value of the Hebrew renaissance to counter the debilitating fragmentation (hitpardut) in the diaspora, he believed that the ingathering of Jews in Palestine was not an answer. Kibbutz galuyot was a messianic ideal rather than a feasible contemporary project. "
ReplyDeleteAhad was wrong. To maintain this opposition is to be sonneh Hashem.
Every Jew in Israel absolutely is in galus.
ReplyDeleteTo claim otherwise is pure apikorsus on the level of Shabsai Tzvi.
Rambam 's statement is irrelevant to the issue. He would not claim that golus is ended by the founding of a Zionist state
ReplyDeleteseems to me you do not know basic "Old testament" (Tenach), and you just make up nonsense from your cult or new religion.
ReplyDeletesee authentic Jewish source:
Ezra Chapter 2 עֶזְרָא
א וְאֵלֶּה בְּנֵי הַמְּדִינָה, הָעֹלִים מִשְּׁבִי הַגּוֹלָה,
אֲשֶׁר הֶגְלָה נבוכדנצור (נְבוּכַדְנֶצַּר) מֶלֶךְ-בָּבֶל, לְבָבֶל;
וַיָּשׁוּבוּ לִירוּשָׁלִַם וִיהוּדָה, אִישׁ לְעִירוֹ.
1 Now these are the children of the province, that went up out of
the captivity of those that had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar
the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and that returned
unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city;
note: הָעֹלִים מִשְּׁבִי הַגּוֹלָה,
אֲשֶׁר הֶגְלָה נבוכדנצור
captivity of Golah - thus there are 2 features of golus, - captivity, and exile from Israel.
Neither of these apply to Jews in Israel today.
There is an important Holy Book that we Jews revere, which you probably have not heard of. it is called the Torah.
Deut. 30 has some very informative verses:
4 If any of thine that are dispersed be in the uttermost parts of
heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence
will He fetch thee.
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy
fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and He will do thee good,
and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thy heart, and the heart
of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all
thy soul, that thou mayest live.
In v. 6 , Hashem will circumcise our hearts - this is figurative - and it suggests that there will be a remnant of secularism amongst Israel, even when Hashem brings them back into the Land of Israel.
It is hard to speak rationally to you, since you follow the dualist Satmar rebbe. The dualist rebbe holds that there are 2 reshuiot, "deities", one is Hashem, and the other is Sammy-el. For you dualist followers of that hungarian man, G-d had no business in bringing Jews back to Israel, or to the victories of the Israeli army, the liberation of Jerusalem etc.
Rambam classifies dualists as idolaters, and that they are the worst and most evil people of all.
You need to circumcise both your hearts, before you can understand monotheism.
DT: "Rambam 's statement is irrelevant to the issue. He would not claim that golus is ended by the founding of a Zionist state."
ReplyDeleteKA: really? And how did you derive this piece of wisdom?
how do you measure or operationalize shibud malchus?
99% of the world's jews are able to get a flight to Israel, courtesy of the Jewish Agency, who serve kosher food and drink on the plane (if you accept Rabbanut or mehadrin). Just like the midrash about the walls of water openign and having sweet fountains for the travellers).
Israel as a State controls a large portion of biblically held territory. The only remaining piece of foreign control is Temple mount itself.
The Torah and Neviim speak of captivity in the Golah, see my quotes from Ezra ch.2 that i posted for Ginsburg. The soviet Union no longer exists, and there is no more captivity of Jews anywhere in the world, with the exception of Iran , although theoretically they can leave or travel overseas but state they prefer to live in Iran.
If shibud malchius were to be measured, maybe 80% or more has gone. That suggests we are in the early phase of Yemei Moshiach. It does not mean that Moshiach has already come.
In ch 11., 4, Rambam says : "If he did not succeed to this degree
or was killed, he surely is not the redeemer promised by the Torah.
Rather, he should be considered as all the other proper and complete
kings of the Davidic dynasty who died. God caused him to arise only to
test the many, as Daniel 11:35
states: 'And some of the wise men will stumble, to try them, to refine,
and to clarify until the appointed time, because the set time is in the
future.' "
This means there can be various degrees of success prior to the actual Moshiach ben David , who may only partially fulfill or attempt to fulfill the duties of Moshiach.
Dt: "Rambam 's statement is irrelevant to the issue." Where do you come up with such nonsense? It is very relevant to the issue. He doe sno give a definition of shibbud malchiut, but it has some meaning related to captivity and exile.
Jeremiah 51:
ReplyDeleteThe LORD hath brought forth our victory; come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God.
Seems that you and your rebbe are Kofrim b' Hashem , in denying the work of the L-rd our G-d
How does this citation of Ahad Ha-am make a point in this discussion? This makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteThere are hardly any jews left in arab countries. Soviet union jews fled en mass, .
ReplyDeleteAmerica is intermarriage central.
hareidim not satisfied with the holocaust, they want to destroy the rest of the jews as well.
I don't know of an "Old" and a "New" Testament. I only know of one Torah.
ReplyDeleteYou obviously are coming from a Christian theology. Obviously, as such, we are unable to communicate on these matters.
that's what Muslims say, they do not know of an old or new testament, but it is all one religion for them.
ReplyDeleteIn your case, you deny the Torah (koifer), Neviim, and Rambam, whilst you hold to your rebbe's dualist system of 2 deities, fighting for control of the universe. Do you pray to sam@el?
It seems you don't know of one Torah either, as your false claims from Vayoel moshe and Al HaGeulah VeAl HaTemurah go against the verses of the Torah itself.
ReplyDelete"The Brisker Rav also said: "The Rambam (Melachim 12:2 and Teshuva 9:2)
ReplyDeletesays that moshiach will redeem the Jewish people from their subjugation
to the nations. Anyone who believes that it is possible to be redeemed
from subjugation to the nations without moshiach is lacking in full
belief in moshiach." (Yalkut Divrei Torah)"
source: https://www.truetorahjews.org/brisker
That is a misreading fo the Rambam. Rambam says Yemei hamoshiach. The talmud alredy says there are 2000 years of Tohu, 2000 years of Torah and 2000 years of Moshiach. That 2000 years of Moshiach includes the period we are witnessing now. Rav Kasher wrote a sefer HaTekufah HaGedolah on the subject.
the conclusion of Hilchot Melachim, Ch 12, h. 2:
ReplyDeleteOur Sages taught: "There will be no
difference between the current age and the Messianic era except the
emancipation from our subjugation to the gentile kingdoms."
The simple interpretation of the prophets' words appear to imply that
the war of Gog and Magog will take place at the beginning of the
Messianic age. Before the war of Gog and Magog, a prophet will arise to
inspire Israel to be upright and prepare their hearts, as Malachi 3:22 states: 'Behold, I am sending you Elijah.'
He will not come to declare the pure, impure, or to declare the
impure, pure. He will not dispute the lineage of those presumed to be of
proper pedigree, nor will he validate the pedigree of those whose
lineage is presumed blemished. Rather, he will establish peace within
the world as ibid. 3:24 continues: 'He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children."
There are some Sages who say that Elijah's coming will precede the coming of the Mashiach.
All these and similar matters cannot be definitely known by man until
they occur for these matters are undefined in the prophets' words and
even the wise men have no established tradition regarding these matters
except their own interpretation of the verses. Therefore, there is a
controversy among them regarding these matters.
Regardless of the debate concerning these questions, neither the
order of the occurrence of these events or their precise detail are
among the fundamental principles of the faith. A person should not
occupy himself with the Aggadot and homiletics concerning these
and similar matters, nor should he consider them as essentials, for
study of them will neither bring fear or love of God.
Similarly, one should not try to determine the appointed time for
Mashiach's coming. Our Sages declared: 'May the spirits of those who
attempt to determine the time of Mashiach's coming expire!' Rather, one
should await and believe in the general conception of the matter as
explained.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So Rambam speaks explictly about "the beginning of the Messianic age."
There will be a war, and a prophet, , and the exact details or sequence of things are not known. What happens before the war is not known. Who are the Jewish leaders at the time are not known.
The method is that we won't know until they happen.
And there can only be a war of Gog and Magog if there is a pre-existing jewish entity in israel, with an army and a civilian population. See where this is leading to?