Thursday, April 26, 2018

The Mesadrei Gittin Conference—Improving Halachic Standards and Personal Sensitivity - a true joke

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57263.675
https://www.jewishlinknj.com/component/content/article?id=10491

November 25, 2015

Most of the active mesadrei gittin (get administrators) in the United States gathered in Manhattan last week for a day-long conference. It was a fantastic event. We had the privilege and opportunity to hear from leading halachic authorities such as Rav Nota Greenblatt, Rav Hershel Schachter, Rav Mordechai Willig and Rav Mendel Senderovic (listed in order of age). The focus was on addressing the manifold halachic challenges involved in gittin administration, such as securing the cooperation of recalcitrant men and women. There was also a special presentation by Dr. David Pelcovitz, a leading psychologist who has also been active in beit din matters for many years. Dr. Pelcovitz emphasized the need for get administrators to prepare couples for what will occur at the get, noting that people cope with a traumatic event far more effectively when they know what to expect. He also noted the wisdom of bringing a friend for support (although I noted that one should avoid bringing someone whom the other party might find irritating).

One vignette stands out, though, in my mind as most memorable and insightful. Rav Nota Greenblatt, the country’s senior get administrator who has been administering gittin since 1952(!), related how he dealt with a particular challenge he encountered in a midwestern city. The woman insisted that she should hand the get to her husband instead of the Torah-mandated procedure of the husband handing the wife the get. She argued that since it was he who misbehaved during the marriage and not she (a fact that went unchallenged by the husband) then she should be the one to deliver the get.

22 comments :

  1. “The Mesadrei Gittin Conference—Improving Halachic Standards and Personal Sensitivity - a true joke”
    “Most of the active mesadrei gittin (get administrators) in the United States gathered in Manhattan last week for a day-long conference. It was a fantastic event. We had the privilege and opportunity to hear from leading halachic authorities such as Rav Nota Greenblatt, Rav Hershel Schachter, Rav Mordechai Willig and Rav Mendel Senderovic (listed in order of age). The focus was on addressing the manifold halachic challenges involved in gittin administration, such as securing the cooperation of recalcitrant men and women.”
    Until the fake/phony PhD psychology letter that Aaron is insane that generated the horrible K-G heter, the ORA, Agunah International etc people were getting nowhere, e.g.:
    (internet 2012):
    “Supporters of Tamar Epstein, whose ex-husband, Aharon Friedman, refuses to give her a religious divorce, have been pressuring Friedman's boss, U.S. Rep. Dave Camp, R-Michigan, to fire Friedman. They have protested in front of Camp's office, signed a petition at change.org, started a website (freetamar.org) and in February, bombarded Camp's official congressional Facebook page. But Susan Aranoff, director of Agunah International, which supports Jewish women seeking divorces, said social media has little effect because many husbands still are resistant after all the bullets have been fired."
    We believe שתיקה כהודאה - Most of the active mesadrei gittin (get administrators) in the United States are complicit in the fake/phony PhD psychology letter that Aaron is insane that generated the K-G heter. This makes “The Mesadrei Gittin Conference—Improving Halachic Standards and Personal Sensitivity - a true joke”

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  2. Now we need to start shedding sunlight on what happens in Israel, in the Rabbanut Get factories.
    Some of the issues that need to be addressed:
    * Get on demand, advocated by feminist activists.
    * Get me'useh by jailing husbands until they give a Get.
    * Financial penalties not in accordance with halacha.
    * Cases being heard by single "dayanim", without a full beis din.
    * Testimony of non-religious social workers, accepted like 2 witnesses.

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  3. IsraelReader says:”Now we need to start shedding sunlight on what happens in Israel, in the Rabbanut Get factories.”
    No.
    See https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-disintegration-of-American-Jewry-553261
    “American Jewry, apart from the Orthodox and a minority of committed non-Orthodox, is demographically imploding. Paradoxically, this is taking place at a time when support for Israel among the American people is at an all-time high and traditional antisemitism is at its lowest level. Jewish education among non-Orthodox Jews is catastrophic, with widespread ignorance of Judaism and understanding about Israel. Assimilation is rampant, with intermarriage levels reaching 70%. Although right-wing antisemitism has made headlines, the real threat emanates from the viciously anti-Israel and antisemitic Left and the growing numbers of Muslim extremists.”
    שולחן ערוך אבן העזר הלכות פריה ורביה סימן א סעיף א
    חייב כל אדם לישא אשה כדי לפרות ולרבות. וכל מי שאינו עוסק בפריה ורביה כאלו שופך דמים, וממעט את הדמות, וגורם לשכינה שתסתלק מישראל. הגה: וכל מי שאין לו אשה שרוי בלא ברכה, בלא תורה כו' ולא נקרא אדם. וכיון שנשא אשה עונותיו מתפקפקים, שנאמר: מצא אשה מצא טוב ויפק רצון מאת ה' (משלי יח, כב).
    Berachoth 8a
    “R. Hanina says: “He who finds” refers to [the finding of] a wife. For it is said: “He who finds a wife has found happiness And has won the favor of the Lord” (Proverbs 18:22).”

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  4. You support invalid Gittin produced by Get factories?

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  5. IsraelReader says: “You support invalid Gittin produced by Get factories?”
    No.
    “You shall not render an unfair decision: do not favor the poor or show deference to the rich; judge your kinsman fairly. Do not deal basely with [others: go about as a talebearer among; meaning of Heb. Uncertain לא תלך רכיל בעמיך] your countrymen. Do not profit by [lit. stand upon; precise meaning of Heb. phrase uncertain לא תעמד על דם רעך] the blood of your fellow: I am the Lord” (Leviticus 19:15-16).

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  6. Here are some figures on divorces in Israel under the Rabbinate, https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/245397
    “The number of Israeli couples divorcing dropped slightly in 2017, according to new data released by Israel's Rabbinate. 10,674 couples divorced in 2017, down slightly from 2016's 10,825… The Rabbinate added that it meted out 228 legal sanctions to get refusers in 2017. Sacntions included refusing one to leave Israel and freezing bank accounts…. The divorce rate stands at 8.8 per 1,000 married persons aged 15 and older in the general population. This rate varies between different religions and stands at 9.2 per 1,000 among the Jewish population, 7.9 among Muslims, 3.2 among Christians and 5.2 among Druze. In 1996, the divorce rate was 7.2 per 1,000.…”
    What’s new with ORA, Agunah International etc ? Are Israeli figures good or bad or hard to say? I support the Israeli Rabbinate.

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  7. So let's get this straight.
    You don't support invalid Gittin produced by Get factories.
    But you're opposed to shedding sunlight on what happens in Israel, in the Rabbanut Get factories.”
    Are you afraid what will happen when a little sunshine is shed on the matter?
    You're rightfully ticked off by the AF case. Do you know how such a case would have been "resolved" in Israel? With AF being put into jail, and being incarcerated there until he gave his wife a Get.
    Do you realize that you are INCONSISTENT?

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  8. "The Rabbinate added that it meted out 228 legal sanctions to get refusers in 2017. Sanctions included refusing one to leave Israel and freezing bank accounts."
    Amazing. Potentially, 228 invalid Gittin!
    BTW, this doesn't include all the Gittin that were given under duress of the THREAT of sanctions.
    We really need to be looking much closer at this...

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  9. IsraelReader says “So let's get this straight. You don't support invalid Gittin… Do you realize that you are being INCONSISTENT?”
    This week’s parsha:
    “You shall observe My laws and faithfully keep My rules, that you may live upon the land in security; the land shall yield its fruit and you shall eat your fill, and you shall live upon it in security” (Leviticus 25:18-19).
    Allow me to show you my letter/email yesterday to the NYS Inspector General, NYS Commission on Judicial Conduct, TIAA etc.
    4.Exhibit A: Susan Package June 19, 2017 shows that Susan sends a 7-page package to John P. Asiello, Aprilanne Agostino, and Marylin Rothstein complaining: “I am writing to request that Mr. Aranoff be required to follow all relevant ORDERS, rules and procedures in this matter as I do to the best of my ability.”
    5.Susan is a champion of women's lib and feminism, especially her Mendel Epstein etc exploits. The NYS courts show deference to Susan. This is how Susan won my house and my TIAA pension. John P. Asiello, Aprilanne Agostino, and Marylin Rothstein are chummy with Susan and complicit with the fake/phony 1995 Rigler Order of Separation.
    6.If the fake/phony 1995 Rigler Order of Separation were real, would Judge Rigler say in Exhibit A: Susan Package June 19, 2017? “This Court, in its last opinion, said that this decade-old separation action must end, and directed plaintiff-wife to file an action for a divorce…because my successor on the bench [Gerald Garson]…”

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  10. IsraelReader says: “But you're opposed to shedding sunlight on what happens in Israel, in the Rabbanut Get factories. Are you afraid what will happen when a little sunshine is shed on the matter? You're rightfully ticked off by the AF case. Do you know how such a case would have been "resolved" in Israel? With AF being put into jail, and being incarcerated there until he gave his wife a Get. Do you realize that you are being INCONSISTENT?”
    I’m not at all inconsistent, let me explain.
    First, Israel granted me a divorce certificate from Susan 2/17/1993---for which I will be forever grateful and beholden to the Israel rabbinut and to God and to Torah and to Israel. Second, with the use of an obviously fake/phony 1995 Rigler Order of Separation, Susan got the NYS court system to fine me $25,000, take away my house, my pension, banning me from ever returning to NY, etc. Third, looks to me that Susan provided the fake/phony PhD psychology letter that Rabbi Kamenitsky sought to allow Tamar to remarry without Aaron divorcing her according to the schulchan aruch…
    I love arguing over the schulchan aruch. I read and study it, as well as Talmud etc. You’ll notice I usually bring my sources in my many comments. IsraelReader you’re grossly unfair in your attacks on Rabbi Halevi… A fellow at the District Attorney’s office told me recently that I need to turn to the NYS Inspector General for relief in the troubles that Susan does to me… I see that the USA Inspector General may give Donald Trump relief for troubles that Mueller does to him.

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  11. Wedged there between your usual rants about Susan, and your blind support for the Rabbinate, I got it.

    The long and short of it is, that you're beholden to the Israeli Rabbinate for granting a divorce certificate, presumably paving the way to your remarriage.
    Great. We're happy for you, that you've been able to remarry, and in some way move forward with your life.

    However, even though the Rabbinate granted you a certificate, it was only after you had given Susan a Get. So they did the right thing, and with that act they've bought your loyalty forever. They can never do no evil. Such gullible thinking!

    If you had been on the other side of the fence, someone like AF, who's marital issues had played out in Israel, instead of the USA, you would be singing a different tune.

    Rabbi Halevi is not the only problem there. Unfortunately it involves a plethora of judges, whose salaries are paid by the government, and they're afraid to act in accordance to halacha, lest their government overseers show them the door, or worse, get themselves embroiled in taking on the the all-powerful Leftist ant-Torah Israeli Supreme Court.

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  12. Please stop conflating your issues with Susan, who lives in Chutz La'aretz, the topic we're discussing, unjustified coerced Gittin in Israel, and the Torah portion of the week, which are all totally irrelevant to each other.

    However, if you agree that the Rabbanut is a problem, then you may bring in the verses you quoted, since allowing rogue judges can have a cosmic effect on the entire Yishuv in Eretz Yisrael.

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  13. IsraelReader says “Please stop conflating your issues with Susan, who lives in Chutz La'aretz, the topic we're discussing, unjustified coerced Gittin in Israel, and the Torah portion of the week, which are all totally irrelevant to each other.”
    Yes, I combine my issue with Susan with the topic of Daattorah “The Mesadrei Gittin Conference—Improving Halachic Standards and Personal Sensitivity - a true joke”
    Susan writes in her 7-page June 19, 2017 document to the NYS courts: “Sanctions. Mr. Aranoff is barred from submitting any motions to the Court. In two court ORDERS of $10,000 each, the late Hon. Judge William Rigler imposed $20,000 of sanctions on Mr. Aranoff for repetitive and frivolous motions and barred him from submitting any motions in this matter until he paid the $20,000. The second $10,000 in sanctions was imposed by Judge Rigler because Mr. Aranoff ignored the first $10,000 of sanctions and submitted more repetitive and frivolous motions. Judge Rigler’s September 12, 2000 ORDER (see attached) further ordered and directed “the Clerk of the Court not to accept any further motions in this action other than to perfect an appeal, or any other action by him until he pays the full $20,000 in sanctions owed by him.” Mr. Aranoff has written about these sanctions in his papers numerous times, saying that he enjoys submitting his motions and that he feels secure from suffering any repercussions because the NYS judges cannot reach him in Israel to make him pay or penalize him in any way. Mr. Aranoff should not be permitted to submit any motions until he pays.”
    Susan is fighting dirty. Susan swaggers about, a bully, much like Rabbi Mendel Epstein did with the help of Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag. Judge Freida Wolfson jailed Mendel Epstein for 10 years and Rabbi Ralbag’s helpers to long terms. Judge Freida Wolfson granted Rabbi Ralbag immunity for damning testimony.
    Hard to prove in a court of law physical assault etc. The police know that hired thugs physically assaulted Aaron. We, outsiders, know that Tamar and her supporters fight dirty.
    Hard for me to prove that Rigler and Garson $25,000 sanctions against me are due to Susan bribing Judge Gerald Garson, who sat in jail 4-years for bribery etc.

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  14. IsraelReader says “Wedged there between your usual rants about Susan, and your blind support for the Rabbinate, I got it…If you had been on the other side of the fence, someone like AF, who's marital issues had played out in Israel, instead of the USA, you would be singing a different tune…”
    I’m on the side of being a gentleman and following the Schulcan Aruch. I take sides, sometimes, in judicial rulings. I take Rabbi Halevi’s side for reasons see http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2018/04/blog-post_16.html
    I say shame on ORA, Agunah International, Mendel Epstein, Rabbi Ralbag etc. Oh, I do have a complaint with Rabbi Ralbag who did the American side of my Israel divorce. I spoke to him and wrote to him many times. He once said to me on the phone that for $5,000 he would give a din Torah….

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  15. I already responded to you there about Rabbi Halevi. He is NOT following normative halacha.
    You say, "shame on ORA, Agunah International, Mendel Epstein, Rabbi Ralbag etc.", but have no criticism for the Rabbanut, as you were apparently "bought", by having received benefit from the Rabbanut.

    You pointedly ignore the serious issues that I raised, about the Rabbanut Get factories.

    * Get on demand, advocated by feminist activists.

    * Get me'useh by jailing husbands until they give a Get.

    * Financial penalties not in accordance with halacha.

    * Cases being heard by single "dayanim", without a full beis din.

    * Testimony of non-religious social workers, accepted like 2 witnesses.

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  16. Still ranting about Susan, and ignoring the issue which I raised, regarding unjustified coerced Gittin in Israel.

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  17. IsraelReader says “I already responded to you there about Rabbi Halevi. He is NOT following normative halacha…”
    “You shall not make idols for yourselves, or set up for yourselves carved images or pillars, or place figured stones in your land to worship upon, for I the Lord am your God. You shall keep My sabbaths and venerate My sanctuary, Mine, the Lord’s. If you follow My laws and faithfully observe My commandments” (Levitiicus 26:1-3).
    “I will establish My abode in your midst, and I will not spurn you. I will be ever present in your midst: I will be your God, and you shall be My people. I the Lord am your God who brought you out from the land of the Egyptians to be their slaves no more, who broke the bars of your yoke and made you walk erect” (Leviticus 26:11-13).
    מדרש אגדה (בובר) ויקרא פרשת בחקותי פרק כו סימן יא
    ונתתי משכני בתוככם. זה בית המקדש: ולא תגעל נפשי אתכם. משאני גואל אתכם, שוב איני מואס בכם:
    “I will restore My people Israel. They shall rebuild ruined cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink their wine; They shall till gardens and eat their fruits. And I will plant them upon their soil, Nevermore to be uprooted From the soil I have given them —said the Lord your God. (Amos 9:14-15).
    Please IsraelReader, the majority of world-wide Jews live now in Israel. Israel is rebuilding ruined cities and deserts. Leading rabbis in Israel including the Rabbanut, are trying to “follow My laws and faithfully observe My commandments”

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  18. Ludicrous and delusional.
    Rabbanut Get factories, faithfully observing Hashem's commandments?

    Is this what Hashem commanded us?

    * Get on demand, as advocated by feminist activists?

    * Get me'useh, by jailing husbands until they give a Get?

    * Financial penalties, not in accordance with halacha?

    * Cases being heard by single "dayanim", without a full beis din?

    * Testimony of non-religious social workers, accepted like 2 witnesses?

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  19. IsraelReader says “Ludicrous and delusional…”
    See https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/22116
    “What’s keeping him here in the United States? The news is never good, not for him and not for the millions who voted for him and keep rooting for him. I can’t imagine what it’s like being in his shoes when every day in America starts with Robert Mueller and ends with Stormy Daniels.”
    IsraelReader, the Left in the USA is ridiculous, absurd, laughable and follows persistently false beliefs etc. Did you see https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/245590 “McCain regrets not picking Joe Lieberman as 2008 running mate”?

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  20. See
    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/245604
    Any thoughts ?

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  21. What are you trying to infer, or "prove", from this story?

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  22. IsraelReader says “What are you trying to infer, or "prove", from this story? That there are woman who switch husbands, as often as they switch their wardrobe, and the Rabbanut enables it?”
    No. I don’t see any dirty fighting in the Rabbanut. Yes I see a man and his wife fighting is like 2 dogs fighting, outsider should stay away or they’ll get bit “A passerby who gets embroiled in someone else’s quarrel Is like one who seizes a dog by its ears” (Proverbs 26:17).
    Fighting dirty means bribing the judges (such as Gerald Garson or Rabbi Kamenistky) and using fake phony documents (such as the fake/phony Rigler Order of Separation or the fake/phony PhD psychology letter someone (Susan?) gave Rabbi Kamenistky that Aaron is insane).
    This is my letter today to the NYS Inspector General:
    2. I quote the Talmud Kethuboth 110b:”… In order to [encourage] settlement in the Land of Israel…Our Rabbis taught: If [the husband] desires [lit. says] to go up [From a country outside the Land, to the Land of Israel, or from a province in the latter to Jerusalem] and his wife refuses [lit. says] she must be pressed to go up; and if [she does] not [consent] she may be divorced [lit. she goes out] without a kethubah. If she desires [lit. says] to go up [from a country outside the Land, to the Land of Israel, or from a province in the latter to Jerusalem] and be refuses [lit. says], he must be pressed to go up; and if [he does] not [consent] he must divorce her and pay her kethubah. If she desires to leave [lit. says] and he refuses to leave, she must be pressed not to leave, and if [pressure is of] no [avail] she may be divorced without a kethubah.”
    4. See Exhibit A: Rabbi Kornfeld letter to Susan July 1, 1991 and Exhibit B: Susan Wants to live in Jerusalem 2/3/1989. Rabbi Kornfeld wrote to Susan July 1, 1991 and later submitted an affidavit, to press Susan to join me in Israel as Susan said she would in writing in aliya papers. All of Susan's motions etc in NYS courts were just dirty fighting. Susan took advantage of Gerald Garson etc to have the judges fine me $25,000 that is still valid today if I should go to NYS. Susan submitted a fake/phony 1995 Rigler Order of Separation to get the 9/10/2013 NYS civil divorce.

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