An Israeli woman who was denied a divorce by a rabbinic court on the grounds of documented domestic violence has appealed to the state’s attorney general.
The woman’s lawyers made the unusual appeal Thursday following the Jerusalem Rabbinic Court’s rejection of her divorce motion. Her husband had been convicted and imprisoned for 75 days for assaulting his wife last year.
In Israel, religious tribunals function as family courts. According to Orthodox Jewish law, divorce is only possible if the husband consents to it. Rabbinical judges in most cases cannot force husbands to give their wives a divorce, though they can impose punishments – including imprisonment and dispossession – on those deemed to be abusing their wives but not granting them a divorce. Such women are called agunot in Hebrew, meaning chained.
In this case, the husband admitted to the domestic violence before the rabbinical court and expressed regret for his actions. The assault took place after the woman filed for divorce for the first time – an unsuccessful bid that the court rejected because the husband objected.
The woman refiled citing the assault conviction, but in dismissing the request, the court ascribed the violence to the woman’s desire to divorce her husband rather than any inherent will on his part to harm her, according to Mavoi Satum, a Jewish Orthodox organization working for so-called chained women.
Denouncing any violence against women, the judges said this applied “especially to such serious violence as described in the charge sheet.” However, “there is also no doubt that the husband’s outburst followed on the difficult conditions he is in as a result of the divorce suit his wife filed against him; and there is no doubt that if the wife accepted the husband’s request to attempt to return normal life together, this occurrence would not have happened,” the ruling by the three-judge panel read. [...]
“Jerusalem rabbinical court says spousal abuse not grounds for divorce”
ReplyDeleteIn NYS divorce law:
http://www.jdbar.com/Statutes/DRL-170/drl-170.html Domestic Relations Law Section 170 Action for divorce, states:
“An action for divorce may be maintained by a husband or wife to procure a judgment divorcing the parties and dissolving the marriage on any of the following grounds: (1) The cruel and inhuman treatment of the plaintiff… (2) The abandonment of the plaintiff… (3) The confinement of the defendant in prison… (4) The commission of an act of adultery…(5) The husband and wife have lived apart pursuant to a decree or judgment of separation for a period of one or more years after the granting of such decree or judgment… (6) The husband and wife have lived separate and apart pursuant to a written agreement of separation…(7) The relationship between husband and wife has broken down irretrievably for a period of at least six months, provided that one party has so stated under oath…''
NYS divorce law would grant the wife a divorce over the husband’s objections on grounds of documented violence. This is an important question to discuss: Are Israeli divorce laws leading to more domestic violence, to wife-beating ? If true, that would be a Chillul Hashem.
My answer is first that wife beating in Israel is, hopefully, a rarity. Second, Israeli law makes it hard for get on demand. Get on demand makes for belittling bet din rulings, make for fueling radical feminism, make for more divorces, make for more bastards, make for less choice in choosing one’s mate, make for more robbery, make for more violations of US laws, etc.
“Mavoi Satum accused the court of “paying lip service” to the fight against domestic violence. Hiddush, a civil rights watchdog group critical of the Israeli Chief Rabbinate, said Friday that the ruling “reminds us of attitudes towards wife-beating in Israel’s neighboring countries.” The statement added that it was an instance of “blaming the victim, which is so repulsive though common in rape cases. Each year in Israel, approximately 18,000 women make domestic abuse complaints to police and about a dozen women are murdered by their spouses. Half of the women murdered belong to Israel’s Arab minority, which comprises approximately 20 percent of the population, according to the WIZO women’s rights group.”
My theory is that in NYS wives invent abuse etc to get a divorce over their husband’s objections. The NYS courts take these wicked wives words at face value. In NYS laws radical feminism rules there is a high degree of fake charges, robbery, adultery etc.
And you wonder where the cynical attitude towards beis din comes from?
ReplyDeletesubmissive isn't not the same as being abused! So what is the natural conclusion?
ReplyDeleteIt's not such a stretch to conclude that if the wife isn't being submissive she needs to be beaten. After all, the Chazal and Rambam advise a good stiff beating for a man who won't give a get, kal v'chomer for a woman who won't make her husband happy!
ReplyDeleteSeriously, when did common sense as in "You hit her because she asked for a divorce? You're a rasha", take a vacation?
If you say: A wife has to be submissive - but she is not - how does this not lead to abuse? Because then it will be considered that the husband is allowed to "submit" her, until she submits.
ReplyDeleteThere is a parallel between the Beit din's logic - if she had behaved well and had never asked for a divorce, the violence episode would not have happened, so we discard the aubse - and your posts on a wife's duty to be submissive.
Rarity?
ReplyDeleteRead the article in its source: it says that 18'000 cases of domestic violence are reported to police every year (which is probably just the tip of the iceberg), and about 12 wives are murdered by their spouses.
but you are simply making it up. Please provide the sources which say that a man can beat his wife for failing to be submissive? The beating for a man to give a divorce is from beis din.
ReplyDeleteThe beis din has a problem make such a ruling since it is not supported in the halachic sources.
A husband can not beat his wife into submission. If he doesn't like the way she acts he can divorce her - but not beat her.
ReplyDeleteI have a chapter on source dealing with wife- beating in halacha in Vol II of Child and Domestic Abuse
Gra (Shulchan Aruch E.H. 154:9): If he habitually beats her cut off his hand – as it says in Sanhedrin (58b) that Rav Huna cut off the hand of someone who habitually hit others – and surely if the victim is his own wife.
Ohr Zarua (Bava Kama #161): … It is prohibited for a man to beat his wife and furthermore if he does he must be for all the damage if she was hurt. If he regularly beats her and embarrasses her in public we force him to divorce her…
Rabbeinu Simcha (Beis Yosef E.H 154:3): (2) It is an accepted view that when a husband beats his wife it is a more severe crime then when he beats his fellow man. That is because there is no obligation to honor his fellow man while concerning his wife he is commanded to honor her more than he honors himself (Yevamos 62b). A person who beats his wife is to be placed in cherem and ostracized as well as flogged and punished with all manner of punished even to the point of cutting off his hand if he constantly beats her (Sanhedrin 58b). If she wants to get out of the marriage he should give her a divorce and she receives her kesuba. An attempt should be made to make peace between them but if he doesn’t comply and continues to beat her and degrade her he should be excommunicated and forced by the secular government to divorce her or be forced to comply with whatever the Jewish authorities tell him (Gittin 88b)…
Rambam (Hilchos Chovel u’Mazik 4:16): If a man beats his wife he must pay her immediately for all the damage, suffering and all her embarrassment and the husband derives no benefit from the payment. If she wants to give the money to someone else she can give it. This is the ruling of the Gaonim [who were stricter than the Tosefta in that the husband no longer receives any benefit from the payment]. Furthermore her husband must pay for her medical treatment as he does for any other sickness.
So how come the beis din did not read those sources?
ReplyDeleteThis smells of dishonest reporting. The rabbis aren't crazy. This story is not as it's presented here.
ReplyDelete“Mavoi Satum accused the court of “paying lip service” to the fight against domestic violence. Hiddush, a civil rights watchdog group critical of the Israeli Chief Rabbinate, said Friday that the ruling “reminds us of attitudes towards wife-beating in Israel’s neighboring countries.” The statement added that it was an instance of “blaming the victim, which is so repulsive though common in rape cases.”
ReplyDeleteSorry, I don’t see a need to review Israel divorce laws that bars divorce on demand because of wife beating. I like Rabbi Eidensohn’s proofs that Chazal hate wife beating. NYS has an urgent need to review its divorce laws. Why? NYS divorce laws as practiced makes for divorce on demand with all its fake abuse charges and lies in NYS courts. I quote: “An enemy dissembles with his speech, Inwardly he harbors deceit. Though he be fair-spoken do not trust him, For seven abominations are in his mind. His hatred may be concealed by dissimulation, But his evil will be exposed to public view. He who digs a pit will fall in it, And whoever rolls a stone, it will roll back on him. A lying tongue hates those crushed by it; Smooth speech throws one down.” (Proverbs 26:24-28).
Israeli divorce laws are based on “The wisest of women builds her house, But folly tears it down with its own hands” (Proverbs 14:1).
Stats on wives / beating husbands?
ReplyDeleteDifferentiate between Jewish and no Jewish stats?
And even more politically loaded -- between lower class and middle class. Your stats will fall apart.
so please provide the needed correction and context
ReplyDeletethe beis din -assuming the report is correct - is claiming the abuse was caused by the wife's request for a divorce.
ReplyDelete“Denouncing any violence against women, the judges said this applied “especially to such serious violence as described in the charge sheet.” However, “there is also no doubt that the husband’s outburst followed on the difficult conditions he is in as a result of the divorce suit his wife filed against him; and there is no doubt that if the wife accepted the husband’s request to attempt to return normal life together, this occurrence would not have happened,” the ruling by the three-judge panel read.”
ReplyDeleteIsrael divorce laws are fine. It’s NYS divorce laws that urgently need review. NYS laws grant divorce over the objections of the husband for (1) The cruel and inhuman treatment of the plaintiff… (2) The abandonment of the plaintiff… (3) The confinement of the defendant in prison… (4) The commission of an act of adultery…etc.
See, NYS judges would never look into why the man hit the wife. Israel divorce laws are fine because they do look into why the man hit his wife. In NYS wicked wives have an incentive to tease the man to hit her. “I dare you! I’ll get a NYS divorce over your objections.” That won’t work under Israel divorce laws.
Yes, I like Israel divorce laws. I making my motion before the NYS Court of Appeals in Susan v Gerald on these grounds:
a) Has special interests of feminists corruptly found sanctuary in NYS courts? At stake is the 1983 Get Law that gives Orthodox Jewish wives the right for get on demand.
b) Once an Orthodox Jewish husband gives a get to his wife, which will free her to remarry in Orthodox Jewish circles, --- can she then win in NYS for a civil divorce over the objections of her husband?
c) An Orthodox Jewish husband that wants to move to Israel --- will the wife be deemed a bad wife is she refuses to join him?
d) Can NY judges ignore rulings of the State of Israel granting a divorce to a couple?
e) Do NYS divorce laws damage Israel standing in the world?
f) Is there a reality of unequal rights in divorce among Orthodox Jewish couples, where the wife dominates unfairly?
g) Do NYS divorce laws make for more and more divorces and family break-ups among Orthodox Jewish couples?
h) Do NYS divorce laws violate Orthodox Jewish law, for example, leading to adultery under Jewish law?
i) Do NYS divorce laws violate an Orthodox Jewish man's freedom to choose his wife, with human dignity and liberty?
j) Do NYS divorce laws allow robbery of an Orthodox Jewish man?
k) Do NYS divorce laws allow violations of ERISA of an Orthodox Jewish man?
The wonderful thing about statistics is that they can be twisted to say just about anything!
ReplyDeletethe wonderful thing about the mind is that it can rationalize almost anything
ReplyDeleteI'm making up nothing. You are a humble man and assume that other folks can figure out what you have. I assure you that there are enough guys out there who would use simple logic:
ReplyDeleteWoman is subservient to man.
So is my microwave.
If my microwave is on the fritz I give it a smack
So why not my wife?
True. My only point was that statistics alone are not reliable as they can be manipulated. The ridiculous example used when I was a kid :how do you know that carrots are good for the eyes?did you ever see a rabbit with glasses?. A more current example is used when calculating how much it costs to educate a child. Statistically you take the total costs and divide by the number of children in the class/school. But we all know that this isn't really accurate. Once the class is established it costs next to nothing to educate additional children. If you have 20 children or 21 children, there is no increase in teacher, facility, utility costs. Just relatively minor consumable costs. Granted there may be no other fair way to calculate costs, but I am just saying that statistics don't always show a complete balanced picture. And what you are saying is 100 percent true, as we have seen in many of the threads on this blog (in all types of topics, and both sides of any issue).
ReplyDeleteI don't know. All I said is that is smells of dishonesty. But you probably have the skill and the ability to research the story and find out. When such a story is presented, it begs for a deeper probe.
ReplyDeleteJust a word of sanity: Never trust an anti-religious site such as this to present an issue involving religious authority fairly and justly. Their entire purpose is to undermine religious authority.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the written decision of the Jerusalem panel, the abuse came after the appeal was filed, hence its not properly before this panel. (And they said, is a manifestation of the appeal, after the wife lost the case before the local bet din, and filed this appeal.)
ReplyDeleteAn appeals court in the US would be similarly bound to exclude the abuse matter.
The wife's option is very simple: withdraw the appeal (which her maviu satum lawyers didn't do, cause they wanted to publicly embarrass the rabbanut) and file a new case, based on the abuse.
Now, it would be diffucult, but highly possible, she can file a new case. Not particularly familiar with how this works in Israel. It will only cost her a few months (to a year, or so.). She should file a complaint against this mavoi satum organization, and it's lawyers (which complaint will go nowhere.)
All the above quoted halachic sources make clear that beis din can only force him to divorce her if his beating her is a regular occurrence (not a one off incident) and that he was warned to stop and nevertheless continued being violent even after being formally warned.
ReplyDeletePlease provide information that they got it wrong
ReplyDeleteYes, this is an issue involving religious authority and Israel government authority. In Susan v Gerald NYS Court of Appeals we also have an issue involving religious authority and Israel government authority. A NYS court granted Susan a NYS civil divorce 9/10/2013 after Israel awarded a me divorce certificate 2/17/1993 on Susan’s initiative. I moved on. Israel allowed me to marry Yemima 5/9/1993. God blessed us with 3 daughters.
ReplyDeleteSee what Susan is doing to me non-stop in NYS courts:
“As to the cross motion, while defective, the court, in any event is unable to grant relief to the plaintiff. This court does not have jurisdiction over the Social Security Administration, a Federal agency. The plaintiff is certainly free to contact the agency to enforce her rights under the Judgment of Divorce pursuant to it’s [sic] rules and guidelines. This constitutes the decision and order of the court. ENTER HON. ERIC I. PRUS, J.S.C. NOV 18 2016”
The abuse may have been caused by the husband's reaction to the request for a divorce; it was not caused by the request. You should not blame the victim of unjustifiable violence for causing it. And being asked for a divorce or even sued for one is not, either in halacha or secular legal systems, an excuse for beating your wife.
ReplyDelete“Rabbinical judges in most cases cannot force husbands to give their wives a divorce, though they can impose punishments – including imprisonment and dispossession – on those deemed to be abusing their wives but not granting them a divorce. Such women are called agunot in Hebrew, meaning chained.”
ReplyDeleteI’m on the side of Israel/Rabbinical judges/law. I’m waiting for the NYS Court of Appeals to rule on Susan v Gerald. I wrote yesterday to the court:
“Interesting that Israel divorce law is grounded in Orthodox Jewish law. Yes, a wife beater who is warned and who repeatedly beats his wife --- not just a one off --- the Israel courts will force the recalcitrant husband to divorce his wife. These type of cases, thank God, are rarities in Israel among Orthodox Jews. I have a cause here to promote the Israel divorce laws for NYS. NYS is too much under radical feminist views which lead to too many divorces, crimes such as Mendel Epstein, bastards etc. Israel law has the focus on savings marriages: ``The wisest of women builds her house, But folly tears it down with its own hands'' (Proverbs 14:1). I feel that wives lie far more in NYS divorce cases than in Israel divorce cases because of feminism in NYS.”
So?
ReplyDelete