RONI has left a new comment on your post "Reb Reuven - please!":
Rav Daniel Eidensohn Shlita
At it stands now (and I do not think that the situation will change relating to this angle) , YOU (RAV DANIEL EIDENSOHN ARE THE TZADIK and so some others (except one and the gvir he covers up and the people aligned with that gvir) and I OWE YOU AN APOLOGY IN THE SIZE OF AN ELEPHANT!
And I want to say to you now, Bekitzur:
ON THIS ISSUE YOU ARE A TZADIK, I WAS A RASHA, I NEED TO DO TESHUVA ON THIS ISSUE, OF SHAMING YOU AND CALLING YOU NAMES AND MORE WILL BE FORTHCOMING AFTER CLEAR INFORMATION IS GIVEN. I HOPE YOU WILL ALLOW MY WORDS TO STAND. I HOPE YOU FEEL THAT I FEEL REAL REMORSE AND PAINED OVER THE FACT THAT I MALIGNED YOU NUMEROUS TIMES OVER AN ISSUE THAT YOU WERE RIGHT.
THERE ARE MORE THAT HAVE WHAT TO SAY AND I WANT TO SAY, AS THE APOLOGY AND AS THE EXPLANATION THAT YOU WERE IN SOME CENTRAL ISSUES.
(I MUST STATE FROM THE OUTSET, THAT NOTHING ABOUT THE OTHER RABBI, THE OTHER GVIR, THOSE WHO LECKED HIM THEN, AND NOW AND MILK HIM AND EVERYTHING THAT THAT PART REPRESENTS IS *NOT* CHANGED. SOME LESSONS MUST BE TAKEN FROM THAT AS A WELL.
BUT THE LESSON FROM ADONI RABBI UMORI RAV EIDENSOHN IN THE APST THAT AS TO THE PRESENT IT IS A "RED HERRING" HE IS 1000% RIGHT).
LEIB TROPPER: I MUST SAY TO YOU, BEKITZUR NOW, THAT YOU WERE A TERRIBLE RASHA ON THIS ISSUE, THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT HAPPENED HERE THAT EE EFSHAR LEPORTOM. I WOULD BE WRITING THEM, MORE BEARICHUS LATER IF THE RABBI OF THIS BLOG KINDLY PERMITS IT AND AFTER WE HAVE MORE INFO.
YOU HAVE ONE AND ONLY OPTION (PLEASE FORGET ABOUT CALLING ME; IT IS USELESS AND A WASTE OF TIME; YOU MUST NOT CONVINCE ME ABOUT YOUR TRUTH), THAT YOU MAKE YOUR CASE TO THE *PUBLIC* THROUGH A LAWYER TO PROVE THAT YOUR IS THE TRUTH AND THAT WHAT APPEARS ON THE TAPE (THAT IS FAR FAR FAR BEYOND "KOLOH DELOY PASSIK" AND BEYOND "UMDENAH DMUCHACH" OF KIUR AND WORSE AND SELLOUT OF JUDAISM (GERUT_) FOR ZNUSS, IS THE REAL ESSNAN ZONAH) IS FALSE.
OTHERWISE, DO US ALL FAVOR AND DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO
חזרת טבח שהיה בודק לעצמו ומוכר ויצא טריפה מתחת ידו, {פד} שילבש שחורים ויתכסה שחורים, וילך למקום שאין מכירים אותו ויחזיר אבידה בדבר חשוב, או יוציא טריפה מתחת ידו בדבר חשוב. (לו ועיין בי"ד סי' קי"ט).
AND AGAIN DO NOT CALL ME! I COULD NOT SLEEP ALREADY FOR THE LAST WEEK (AND MORE).
kol hacovod to roni, if this is infact him. May Hashem help us to be zocia to tshuvah beshlamut. And to root out the erav rav from us once and for all. Everything is touli in tikun Habris, may we see the gulah very soon with bais shlisi in yerusalaim becorav.
ReplyDeleteWhen will you call Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein to task for his role in this fraud? He is the one who called Rav Wachtfofel and pretended to speak in the name of Rav Elyashiv, shlita.
ReplyDeleteIs Roni, Rabbi Ronnie Greenwald? One of Troppers best friends in the past as well as enabler? I am in the process of starting a site called TropperStoppers.com listing all of Tropper's enablers and those who are taking dorty money from him, until they stop. The INSANITY has to stop!!!
ReplyDeleteRoni:
ReplyDeleteyou also attacked me in your comments in the past, I must say you have now shown great might with this post. This is the real behaviour of a Jew, like yehudah admitted. I say to you kol hakavod, and you should be a lesson for others to learn from.I would lke to wish you much success in the future. The chilul Hasehm here is too great to fathom.
I am in the process of starting a site called TropperStoppers.com listing all of Tropper's enablers and those who are taking dorty money from him
ReplyDeleteChazak Ve'ematz!
This is a pathetic attempt (for legaland litigious purposes) to create the imprerssion that Roni and Tropper are two differeny people. It would not work !
ReplyDeleteAaron:
ReplyDeleteAnyone that I attacked relating to defending Tropper solely, I ask them of each and everyone of them a REAL MECHILOH.
I recall a few of them (like the owner of this blog the one who is the real tzadik on this matter), R' Mekubal (who also appears to be a tzadik on this issue), and Monsey Tzadik. The latter one, I sense, that he was hurt by LT probably years ago. I had given the benefit of the doubt to LT. Now, after this expose and the lowlife lifestyle of Lt i understand him completely and (while I do not know the details of his grievances) I give him the benefit of the doubt that he or someone close to him was deeply and gravely hurt by the man and therefore I do ask mechila from MOnsey Tzadik regarding my attacks on him when defending tropper.
But, I want to reiterate: my positions regarding the other megayer of flatbush, the husband of the wealthy individual he converted and those who helped in that FAKE conversion and the ongoing taking money from him, which is a quid pro quo to kashering her conversion has NOT CHANGED ONE IOta.
It is only, that this lowlife is WORSE than them and there are countless issues that happened here and they must be addressed and brought to light.
Again, when I hurt you and attacked you for comments attacking tropper I APOLOGIZE INDIVIDUALLY TO YOU AND ASK YOU THAT YOU RECEIVE MY MECHILA.
THANKS
Now, bekitzur as to some of the issues at stake (and more has to be talked about in the future):
ReplyDeleteLet's talk about our past disagreements and about the issue that Rav EIdensohn's position was right:
The two issues which EJF has claimed that they innovated were:
1) facilitate the conversion of those who are already intermarried.
2)to create an "universal standard" the highest standard in gerut that would be acceptable to all.
Personally I felt: that on # 1: While I was opposed to it in the past and beleived like the teshuva Rav Eidensohn brought initially in the name of Rav Elyashiv that we should not convert those people, and so was the tradition a while back, but hearing from many people in many circles beshem that some gedolim and admurim felt that one should help those, I felt, Ok it is good to help those who need help. Then I felt that we should seek to encounter those who are willing to help themselves. and that is what the teshuvas of Rav ELyashiv that are printed on VOlume 3 seems to say.
Rav Eidensohn brought the opinion of HaRav Sternbuch who vehemently condemned EJF. I felt that EJf has the backing of GEdoyley Yisrael, because it seemed to be in sync with that, that I have heard from manypeople claiming al pi hashmua beshem GEdolim and REbbes.
Rav Eidensohn claimed to stick to Rav Sternbuch. But he also alerted that EJf was going BEYOND the permission by the geolim. I thought at the time that it didn't. And still think that a large part of it did not. But I was wrong in stating that the lines were not crossed, for the lines were crossed and anything that I beleived based on LT is not to be relied on klal uklal.
So,while I believe now, that a large group of rabbonim feel that we should help those who want to help themselves, and if we meet intermarried jews and we are mekarev the jewish partner, we can (and should) mekarev him, so that he will appreciate the need for the partner to want to have a full conversion,
a line must be made that there be no apperance whatsoever that we are asking them to convert. It should be clear that it should come from themselves.
to be continued...
On the second issue:
ReplyDeleteI felt and feel that there was and is lack of basic standards in gerut. WE are not talking about a woman nto covering the hair or wearing pants; but about not keeping shabbat, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha.
This concerns are seen by posskey yisroel and I always cited Igros Moshe, HaRav Moshe Feinstein, who states in many places that he is concerned about most of conversions done in the USA since they are done leshem ishut and the jewish partners do not keep torah and mitzvot in the most basic level and therefore they may not be chal even bediavad, to make them either for sure goyim or safek gerim! Rav Moshe is also concerned about the status of the megayrim, why they are not "garua mehedyotot" (less than yedyotot) that disqualifies the conversion also from that angle.
In that regard, I have not changed one iota. The concerns are there and there is a reason why Rav shechter made an agreement with the Chief Rabbinate of Israel regarding the GPS of the RCA!
to be continued...
Now,here comes another sticking issue that I actually thought that EJf would be clean from that, actually Rav Eidensohn taught us all that here there is a great danger indeed and he was right!
ReplyDeleteREgarding the second point which EJf seemed to claim that they will come to remedy, not to accept dayanim who convert for high amount of money, there was also an idea that the conversion for money, besides being a fake conversion, represented in my eyes a terrible idea: SELLING THE OF A JEW FOR MONEY, IE. SELLOUT OF JUDAISM.
Rav Eidensohn pointed out many times, that Ejf's calling hundreds of rabbis to their conventions was indeed a quid pro quo: the rabbis come to the convention and many of them received large amounts of money for their instituionsand organizations and thereby endorse the idea of this organization.
I felt, that since there Rabbis do NOT sit at the bais din that performs gerut , that it would not affect the process of the conversion itself. The conversion itself would be a clean halachik process! The fact that Rabbis come to endorse the idea of the Organization and receive money for their organizations, was felt by me, not to be contrary to halacha, since byissurim one is beleive to say eidut (testimony) even if he is NOGEA BEDAVAR! ( a rabbi might permit the status of his wife not being a niddah etc.)
but I WAS WRONG! AND RAV EIDENSOHN WAS RIGHT. THIS IS AND WAS A TERRIBLE DANGER! there should not be a connection of money pumped to rabbis to be part of organization that is strictly a halachik organization. Itis similar let say, that one would make a convetion of Rabbis in the OU who are convened to make polcies relating strictly to HILCHOT KASHRUT and Rabbis from organizations would be invited and they would be given moneyfor their other holy organizations. While these rabbis do not operate day to day operations; their involvement in form of receiving money would BLIND THEIR JUDGEMENT AT BEST FROM SEEING CORRUPTION THAT BUILDS UP AT THE ORGANIZATION! AND THE HEAD OF THE ORGANIZATION MIGHT USE UP THE MONEY AND POWER GIVEN TO HIM FOR FALSE AND TREYFE AND SHMOOTZIKE ENDS! AND THE RABBIS WOULD BECOME BLIND (KI HASHOCHAD YEAVER) AND WE MUST MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A "NEGIA"AND A "QUID PRO QUO EVEN WHEN THE RABBIS SEEM NOT TO TAKE POSITIONS ON THE ESSNETIAL OPERATIONS OF HALACHIK PROCEDURES.
TOBE CONTINUED...
continued...
ReplyDeletehow much more so, when we are talking about an organization that actually deals (not with meat or food production) with human beings, and conversions, where the interactions betwen them, brings them to situations where one might succumb and tempted to give in to the situation or worse to use the power and money in his hand to cave in to his yetzer harah, then the concerns mentioned earlier are much stronger.
And how much more so, if one is prone to such activities and has this yetzer horah in high gears(as we have seen in this scandal).
There are so many questions arising in one's mind: Let's ask one: How in the world was LT able to have contact with this prospect for a long time (even if she was planted, and even with the fact that the enemy who is another piece of art, planned to ensnare him) without being checked about it? Why should the head of the organization have the power to decide on who is to be a ger or not? It should never have been his job, even to make the initial connections with the prospect. That should have been decided solely and only by RABBIS OF THE BATEY DINIM. He should have stayed out of any prospect. If he would be given a call about a prospect he should have been given at most, general guideliness of the rabbis, but never should he have had contact with the converts themselves. If heknew about the prspect from kiruv encounters, he should have relayed to the rabbis, but the prospect should never be in a situation that he/she goes to head of the organization to talk about whether or not the person is a prospect.
There are many more questions...and maybe i worded this question poorly...the idea is that the pumping of money to rabbis (even for good causes) CORRUPTED THE ORGANIZATION! I am NOT saying that the batey dinim themselves and their rabbis are pasul (as many in the blogsophere are jumping on and they want to validate other fake dayanim); for I don't know and the dayanim still have the benefit of the doubt on this matter. but certainly the organization was corrupt as this instance clearly shows...to be continued...
the above was regarding the wrongness in the setup of the organization.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that needs to said about the chillul Hashem of this incident per se:
My beef in the past was with selling yiddishkeyt for fake conversion. The one who performs fake conersion for money, is not only doing wrong in the act itself (he is deceiving the prospect and klal yisroel and bringing erev rav in klal yisroel); but also in the corruption of selling a holy value of conversion (bringing someone into kedushat yisroel) for money, honour and other motives (even"holy" ones).
This incident tops the cake: The fellow not only sold conversion for $$$ (which he did taking $$$$ from uncle TOm to allow him to perform his shenanigans); but he sold conversion FOR SHMOOTZ AND ZNOOT! THIS IS THE LOWEST OF THE LOWEST!!!
This is a Chillul Hashem of the highest proportions, as he cheapened yididshkeyt, observant jews and rabbonim in the eyes of the world,
But most importantly: He did such an smut action in public AGAINST THE WILL OF HASHEM THAT IS THEW WORSE LEVEL OF CHILLUL HASHEM AS EXPLAINED BY THE RAMBAM.
to be continued...
And to finalize bekitzur: All of the above, does [not] exonerate, the rabbi in flatbush who makes a lot of conversions for money,[...]
ReplyDeleteand let us all merit the building of the third temple, who will come in the wake of removing all falsehood amongst us (mashiach will judge with justice and Tziyon BEMISHPAT TIPADEH WITH TRUTH AND JUSTICE NOT CORRUPTION AND FALSEHOOD) and let us learn that the "ends DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS"! (even "holy" means' and "holy" activities and "holy" organizations that carry publicity for their good deeds DO NOT JUSTIFY FALSE MEANS!
the last message was
ReplyDeletedoes NOT exonerate the rabbi..
Roni I truly appreciate your concern for truth and your desire to help the Jewish people as well as your courage to acknowledge errors.
ReplyDeleteYour posts have included a lot of valuable insights and issues that need to be clarified and written up in depth in a systematic manner.
The issues of geirus is not simply what is the halacha but what is the halacha under what circumstances.
In addition what are the checks and balances to prevent someone from corrupting the system - whether it is the financial backers,the dayanim or the candiates for conversion.
That really gets back to what at the time seemed a relative trivial issue to both of us. Where were the written teshuvos that governed such an important enterprise. We both agreed that the issue was apparently not earthshaking especially since there seemed to be an oversight of gedolim. It did bother Rav Sternbuch a lot - now I see why.
the key cause of failure was because one individual made up the rules, administered them, provided the money, determined which dayanim and which converts were complying. He was accountable to no one.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
With all respect Roni - why over complicate things keep it simple.
ReplyDelete1. For thousands of years there has been a real Kapada against intermarrige, and not accepting non jewish wives (ie Ezra Hasofer) etc.
2. Even if you can with pilpulim rationalize it it is bad for Klal Yisroel based on pushut policy reasons. Goyim not migayer leshim shomim bring their tumah (zhamat Hanash) into their children, families, and Khlal Yisroel ( ie. erev rav and the egal hazohav)
3. once you go down this road there is no stopping it- as Rav Sternbach Shilita put it every jew knew, you intermarry you cut yourself off - period.
4. The more you are beshlmut with shrirat Habris the clearer it is.
The are countless memrot in chazal about the danger of being liberal with guirut and relations with goyim
5. finally as Rabbi Nachman says in sefer Hamidot
הבּא על הכּותית מכניס כּל השׁפע לסטרא אחרא
its understandable and foreseeable things would turn out they did
"That really gets back to what at the time seemed a relative trivial issue to both of us. Where were the written teshuvos that governed such an important enterprise".
ReplyDeleteSorry for not mentioning it amongst the main lesson, but you are pointing out to something else that is extremely important ( I should have put this in another of the lessons that you taught us):
If in general there needs to be guidance and teshuvot detailing the directives of a certain situation,
When we are dealing with something that is novel and tamuha lerabim by it's novelty and by something that is faught with danger, then if the Posskim and Rabbonim or GEdolim are guiding us, they should elaborate PUBLICLY what is the basis for this position and how one should deal in this or that particular situation and how the public should be comfortable that there are checks and balances.
And as you write: that everything was under one man. There should have never been a situation where the rabbonim are under him (and their task to get his $$$); they should have led the organization and things should have been "transparent" as you demanded, so that everyone sees how the organization is run and in turn the organization also yirat ben odom (in addition to yiras shamayim which should the ikkar but in case s of money it corrupts as you write) and the obligation to show the public that it is clean.
If it would be clean then Ltwould hide behind the Posskim; andnot the Posskimhiding behind LT!
@kol pogim bo:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that it should not be that people convert for marriage or marry their ex-boyfriend/girlfriend after conversion.
However, this is a wide-spread practice, and EJF was not unique in doing it.
I heard that chabad helped to convert many non-jewish russion spouses after the russian aliyah. As far as I understood, RAv Druckman did many spouse-Giurim.
In my modern-orthodox community, there is also a lot of this going on.
In fact, I heard that many "out-of town" communities are afraid of "going extinct" if they do not accept Giur for marriage.
..therefore, I worry more about what EJF might do (or might have done) to the (potential) Gerim (or Baalei T'shuva) than about "illegitimate Gerim" being brought in by EJF, since this problem is ubiquitous. You'll find it almost wherever you look.
ReplyDeleteThe sexual stuff that Tropper seems to have done is absolutely disgusting.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I could understand how it might be possible for him to be carrying on like that without others knowing about it, how could it be that they did not take offense at his deceitful nature and manipulativeness, which comes across so loud and clear on those recordings?
Case in point Leah
ReplyDeleteI live in a small community way out in western Canada 50 families’ shomer shabos.
EJF activities have become a plague, Das Torah knows some of the situation as I have posted in the past.
Needless to say I have had to pull my son out of the so called orthodox school and send him to the city Jewish school because the former is full of goyim and run by a phony convert and a non Jewish woman.
Right now there is a 23 year old former Hillel shilich who is living with a shiksa and her two kids. Instead to dissuading him the establishment are actively encouraging him and his girlfriend to convert
It’s insane!!! He is just a kid !!
"Right now there is a 23 year old former Hillel shilich who is living with a shiksa and her two kids. Instead to dissuading him the establishment are actively encouraging him and his girlfriend to convert
ReplyDeleteIt’s insane!!! He is just a kid !!"
Well, if you go to the blog called "Abandoning Eden" you will find what I deem a fairly typical reaction.
AE grew up MO and became an atheist. She met a (non-jewish) fellow atheist and decided to marry him. First her parents wanted to talk (or mob) her out of it. Eventually, when they saw that "nothing could be done", they wanted the non-jewish spouse to convert.
AE being an honest person, she refused.
But I suppose this is the way it goes in most cases: as long as the others go with "Shikses", everyone is against conversion in such cases. As soon as it is in your own family/your own child you want to "save what can be saved". And I think that this is the strongest driving force behind "Giur for Marriage": the family of the jewish spouse...
As long as you cannot eliminate this factor, it's vain to attack batei din or organisations who do those conversions.
My experience is: a beith din can always be found, if it's not in your own town, it will be somewhere else.
I echo the idea that instead of handing power to individuals guidance should be in the form of tshuvas that laid out the reasoning and criteria. Instead the EJF paid for conferences became implicit haskamos for a man. Even a man better than Tropper should not be trumping facts. In engineering the Slifkin ban Tropper established his ability to manipulate instead of forthrightly accepting a legitimate debate. The rabbonim who acquiesced to a ban instead of tshuvah helped fuel Tropper's rise to power on his false pinchas like character.
ReplyDeleteI say, beware of kanoim bearing bans!
Leah:
ReplyDeleteWE are stuck with a real problem and there is no quick solution.
You talk about a experience and Kolpogimbo talks about his experience and the same experiences can be viewed from different perspectives and we need great leaders to guide us.
For while one wants to save what can be saved, one needs to worry also whether one is saving anything anyway.
We cantalk from a halachik perspective and from an ideological perspective and a practical perspective.
From a Halachik perspective one might not be saving what can be saved if the "convert" does not commit to keep mitzvot. Because Halacha and Will of G-d (the truth) might treat him as a non Jew anyway.
From an ideological and practical perspective, while it might "save" some it might ideologically and practically legitimize this way of life to many others (many others might take this tack from the beggining to marry a non jew and then to "convert"). And ideologically it also trivializes and diminishes from the main messages of yiddishkeyt of "havdalah ben yisrael leamim" and the ideas imbued in the prohibitions of intermarriage.
So, without a great Halachik and General Jewish leader, it seems to mho, that one cannot take into one'shand a stance that affects klal yisroel and changes the dynamics of klal yisrael without having the support and the strength and guidance of such leaders.
Roni:
ReplyDeleteI am sure you have some connections to rav reuven, maybe you could convey him the open letter and also provide us with a valid fax number for us to send it to?
The Raboinm have to realise the anguish of the zibur with this story and thay have to come out with a clear stance and also admit to some errors on their behalf
Roni said
ReplyDelete"But, I want to reiterate: my positions regarding the other megayer of flatbush, the husband of the wealthy individual he converted and those who helped in that FAKE conversion and the ongoing taking money from him, which is a quid pro quo to kashering her conversion has NOT CHANGED ONE IOta."
I just want to point out to you Roni, That Rav Eidensohn never ever justified this fellow, he said this many times, you didnt accept this and thought he was only supporting him, which was never true!
Aaron:
ReplyDeleteOk, I apologize for that as well! I was caught up with the heat of the issue and felt wrongly that he did justify. I did not feel that his call that his call to fix this menuval'dike person and organization and his reply that my response is a "red herring" to be a serious one.
I apologize again!
Aaron,
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly enough, I must tell you that i have very little connection with the man. I spoke to him a short while on the phone a few months ago.
Maybe some will call the office of the Yeshiva tomorrow and send their fax to the Yeshiva.
I am not convinced by Roni/Tropper in any way.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me of that old expression "beware of the man who says 'in other words' because he is just going to tell you the same thing over again" and unfortunately this is what seems to be oozing out of poster Roni/Tropper's words here yet again as he obviously is talking out of both or more sides of his distorted mouth.
Roni/Tropper forgets that what has happened here is the total 100% collapse of Tropper/EJF and every last shred of verbiage and arguments that were spoken or written by ANYONE in favor of the Tropper/EJF travesty is 100% is as toxic and radioactive as Tropper/EJF is now.
It is absurd to come out and say "sorry" twenty times to five people and then to go back and start justifying and rationalizing basically everything that Roni/Tropper said, as if by cutting out the "bad Tropper" of the sex scandals one is left with the "good Tropper" who had good intentions and conversion policies.
No, there is not a good and bad Tropper, that is just part of a sociopathic way of arguing befitting Tropper himself. There is only one kind of Tropper and he is 100% rotten to the core. It is like a sefer Torah written by an apikores and it MUST be burned even though the apikores is gone, and in this case the deeds of the apikores Tropper are still coming out in full glory so certainly ALL the words spoken on his behalf especially by one like Roni/Tropper should be flushed down the toilet very quickly or there stench will make it impossible to function on this blog yet again as Roni/Tropper spouts off on how right he was on 90&% of most things! Tell it to the Marines Roni/Tropper you are a faker, fraud and sheister!
In another post Rabbi Eidensohn asks why Tropper is not talking and apologizing but here it is because Roni/Tropper IS "apologizing" profusely in all his sicko ingratiating ways, like a man being led to the gallows for his crimes who pleads and cajoles for his life and will say ANYTHING including "apoligizing" to his critics (not to the victims yet mind you) to save his neck.
The fraudulence of Tropper/Roni is now umasked to Tropper's/EJF's ETERNAL shame! Poster Roni/Tropper is none other than Tropper himself trying to weasel himself out of his self-inflicted sex scandal disaster of his own making.
ReplyDeleteIt is therefore a HUGE chutzpa for poster Roni/Tropper to come here an give dei'os and his obviously KRUMME opinions yet again, and issue judgments on ANYTHING or ANYONE when he was the 100% authentic voice of Tropper on this blog for more than a year as he UNREMORSEFULLY and MERCILESSLY inflicted great harm and damage against many posters and bloggers on this blog.
How quick people forget the baraabrity and brutality of Roni/Tropper, and that's EXACTLY what Tropper/Roni are counting on and relying upon as if this was Bill Clinton hanging in even though he was 100% outed by Monica Lewinsky and impeached based on the findings of the Star Report, or Nixon trying to rebuild his name after being forced to resign in disgrace. It won't work, because this is NOT the "Dick Cavet Show" or some such!
We all got to know poster Roni/Tropper VERY well! All anyone could conclude was that poster Roni/Tropper was much too identical and spoke like Tropper to be anyone else but Tropper himself or a very, very, very, very close carbon copy and an integral part of him.
Tropper is the ultimate trickster and spinmeietr and he is quite capable of taking advantage of the Jews' trusting mentality and most modern Yidden tend to be kind and to be dan lekaf zechus and this is exactly what poster Roni/Tropper is now EXPLOITING 100% with his fake crocodile tears and insincere "apologies" because if he were truly sorry for everything he stated to defend Tropper/EJF to the absolute hilt, he would issue and UNCONDITIONAL APLOGY FOR ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING HE SAID from the moment he hit this blog to the day he was warned multiple times to control himself, dumped and then unceremoniously blocked for his UNAPOLOGETIC barbaric language and UNFORGIVABLE inhumane attacks.
During World War Two the AXIS powers sought various ways to split the ALLIES by trying to work out a "separate peace" with the Americans while they sought to continue fighting the Russians, but people like Winston Churchill saw through that and laid down a clear-cut policy of TOTAL UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER and the same must apply to Tropper/EJF since he is still fighting his main enemy Guma Aguiar. So he needs to make sure that Guma gains as little from the blows against him on this blog. He must not be allowed to pull off this diabolical ploy.
Therefore any and all of Tropper's/EJF's spokesmen and enablers such as poster Roni/Tropper, Tom and Dafna Kaplan, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, R EB Wachtfogel, R Nochum Eichenstein, R Shmuel Kaminetsky, R Aron Shechter for having served as Tropper's rabbinic, financial, and online enablers and defenders while Tropper was allowed to run amock as he OUTWARDLY preached his doctrines of the ultra charedi EJF "universal" conversion, but INWARDLY involved in the worst possible corruptions and sins befitting no less than charismataic Rabbi Shabtai Tzvi who also fooled his generation until he was unmasked and defrocked because he was in fact a 100% fraud and sinner.
Therefore it can only be concluded that "apologetic" poster "Roni" is none other than the old Roni/Tropper only this time he is involved in humungous damage control and it seems he is succeeding as he lulls people into thinking that he too is a "tzadik" when he is VERY far from it!
Shame on you Roni/Tropper for yet again trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. Go hang your head in shame and don't come here with crocodile tears that only reveal your hypocrisy befitting the way Tropper works.
RAP,
ReplyDeleteI thought I should leave you out.
But I must tell you. I say my honest opinion.
And I will state here again.
You are a FRAUD! You are a fake! For you fight Tropper IN ORDER TO COVER YOUR OWN PARTY. YOU FIGHT HIM TO ALLOW YOUR PARTY TO GARNISH THE $$$$ OF THE ENEMY WHO IS FIGHTING TROPPER! YOU FIGHT HIM BECAUSE HE HAD THE MEANS TO HOLD A PERSON WITHMEANS THAT DID NOT GIVE MONEY TO YOUR PARTY. YOU FIGHT BECAUSE PEOPLE ALIGNED WITH HIM HAD SOME LEGITIMATE CRITICISM AGAINST POLICIES AND FAKE DONE BY MEMBERS OF YOUR PARTY. YOU COVERED UP FOR FAKE GERUT DONE BY YOUR PARTY.
THE SHENANIGANS DONE TROPPER DOES NOT EXONERATE THE SHENANIGANS DONE BY YOUR PARTY. AND YOU HAVE DONE A JOB FOR YOUR PARTY ANDNOT FOR THE TRUTH.
THAT IS WHY I DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO YOU!
i DEMAND THAT RABBI EIDENSOHN LEAVE THIS MESSAGE AS IS, BECAUSE I REALLY CAME OUT TO FIX MY WRONG DOINGS, BUT I AM A HONESTMAN AND WILL NOT FIX IT BY ALLOWING OTHER FALSEHOOD TO STAY. I AM NOT OF THE OPINION THAT I FIGHT CORRUPTION WITH CORRUPTION. I FIGHT S ZNOOT WITH OTHER ZNOOT!
FAKE CONVERSIONS ARE TREYF AND WILL REMAIN TREYF AND LOTS OF SHMOOTZ IN THIS STORY WILL BE UNCOVERED AND WILL BE SEEN HOW FAKE GERUT WAS PAT OF THIS SHMOOTZIKE MAAYSE AND YOUR PARTY WILL NOT NECESSARILY LOOK GOOD AT THE END!
TO REITERATE: i DO APOLOGIZE TO ALL PARTIES THAT I ATTACKED FOR ATTACKING TROPPER AND THE ORGANIZATION EJF. BUT THE POSITIONS REMAIN AS I STATED HERE EARLIER.
To Roni/Tropper:
ReplyDeleteYou may be distancinbg yourself from the fully disgraced "Tropper name" for tactical reasons but you still sound like his old ideas and like something Tropper's allies like R Reuven Feinstein and R Nochum Eisenstin would say even now!
Roni/Tropper, I will repeat again what I have told you many times before: I am not involved in gerut in ANY way. I have not received money from anyone to assist in any gerut in any way. I am not associated with Bomzer or Guma or anyone in any way, and I have never met them even for a second. I am not a member of the RCA or any rabbinical organization. I am just a humble blogger.
I have on record in my file copies of my own battles against false geirut long before Tropper got into this field and long before Rabbi Eidensohn started fighting Tropper and EJF.
Your accusations against me are therefore 100% false because you presume me to be "guilty" in your crooked and twisted mind when I KNOW that I have nothing to do with anything you imagine about me.
You don't even leave me any options. You seem to think because I have spoken up for the option of giving the Israeli Rabbanut or of the Modern Orthodox rabbinate a legitimate Halachic voice, even though I am neither Modern Orthodox nor am I Religious Zionist that it makes me into the demons running around in YOUR head but it's false in reality.
I am willing to see the their point of view, unlike you and Tropper and Rav Eisenstein who only wish to attack and destroy the Modern Orthodox and Religious Zionist rabbinates and communities which will only lead to eternal Jewish machlokes and even r"l civil war for which you, Tropper and Nochum Eisensten will be 100% responsble.
The way of peace is better than the way of war. It is far better to seek common ground with fellow Orthodox Jews and their rabbinates than to treat them like filthy garbage (oh, of course, this does not apaply when Charedim want to get money from them, naturally) and it is therefore best to seek common ground even though the conditions are not easy or ideal.
If you are Satmar or a Brisker or you live in Boro Park, Bnai Brak, Meah Shearim, Lakewood or Gateshead, then great you can get along without needing the MOs and RZs, but if you live in a world where they are found and you need their help and cooperation and you do NOT despise them but respect the differences then there is nothing wrong in TRYING to work with them and TRYING to see their point of view.
To Roni/Tropper, continued:
ReplyDeleteGerim do not need to get involved with Charedi or Chasidishe batei din, it will MOSTLY lead to automatic disisters. That is one of the huge problems with this whole Tropper/EJF/Eisenstein story and which you are still trying to defend.
Charedim and people like you need to get out the geirus business and all its questions, go eat yashan, drink chalav yisroel worry about bugs in vegetables, eat shmura matza on Pesach and buy $1000- esrogim for Sukkos, learn daf yomi and live in ghettos and leave the world alone and defintely don't come out and fight it like Tropper did and Eisenstein still does and just make matters worse.
You are seeing something in me, but it is NOT what you think! I am an open minded and fair person who wants to see all sides of an issue and to you that means crazy things as the demons in your head get the better of you and I am none of those crazy things that only exist in your twisted mind.
Finally, I am amazed that you have the chutzpa to come to this blog and sit in judgment on me or anyone as if you were the final posek ha'aahron of the Tropper saga. You are far from it. Your record is that you defended, protected, lied for, and did everything to help Tropper and make him look great and now you come here and say sorry to a few people and go right on the way you used to by attacking me and others. Now how crazy is that???
You should be ashamed of yousrelf for defending the proven menuval Tropper and how dare you come here and start attacking others the way you used to when you worked for Tropper like a zombie without a brain and now you want people to take you seriously? You have to be joking if you think that anyone is THAT stupid and gullible.
You should be doinbg teshuva big time right now right now and not wasting everyone's time here with your ongoing attacks and krumme terutzim all over again.
Roni/Tropper you only prove one thing with your latest tirades, that "the more things 'change' the more they stay the same" and just like Tropper is still the same menuval and rosha you are still the same crooked and ruthless person that you always were and still are!
Rap,
ReplyDeletefor the last time: Stop covering your buddies who uncovered guma and shlepped 770,000$ from him!
Warning about Roni/Tropper.
ReplyDeleteRoni, since you seem to have such a thick skull, here is what I recently Emailed Rabbi Eidensohn, and it is about you too, read on:
Dear Rabbi Eidensohn.
Thanks for sharing your views.
Roni is still functioning as a Tropper troll albeit with a different voice and in a different incarnation this time. He is still Tropper's mercenary and is NOT on your team! I am almost 99.99% certain of that!
Reports are now coming on various blogs that team Tropper is now in overdrive with their DAMAGE CONTROL strategies (with Menachem Lubinsky of LUBICOM and Tropper sister in law Blond doing the strategizing.)
The "Roni" golem troll was always one of Tropper's most formidable weapons and he is proving it yet again!!!
Roni the troll's re-appearance on your blog is part of that over-all strategy to somehow create better GLOBAL energy in the galaxies surrounding the COMPLEX Tropper universe.
Notice how he was gone from your blog the moment Tropper started his own blog, but as of a few days ago when Tropper's reputation has fallen through the floor and his blog is therefore useless, presto, Tropper's troll Roni is back on your blog with a simple strategy of apologizing with fake crocodile tears and hey he has everything to gain and nothing to lose by saying he "condemns" Tropper's "znoot" as he calls it, but at the same time he returns to defend many of Tropper's/EJF's policy positions and despicable arguments regarding his ongoing war against Bomzer and Guma Aguiar.
Let Roni apologize for sending you the forged English anti-Bomzer letter and taking you for a fool, as proven by poster mekubal. Let him withdraw all his arguments supporting proselytization and of making fun of Rav Shternbuch.
Remember Roni's words that he came to your blog in the first place a year ago to fight ME (RaP) because he wanted to refute what I had written, and in fact it was I (RaP) that have been analyzing and writing more than anyone, even more than you, on your blog concerning Tropper/EJF. He knows what he wants to do, to DIVIDE AND CONQUER even at this late stage of the game. It makes Tropper's existence all that much easier.
Warning about Roni/Tropper. Continued.
ReplyDeleteYet Roni is terribly stupid to claim that I (RaP) in any way am on Guma's side simply because it was MY words and analysis AGAINST GUMA that finally drove Guma to force you to take down what I (RaP) had written and which almost caused me to walk away in disgust when you caved into his threats after all of my work UNCOVERING and pointing to Guma's role in EJF in the first place.
So all in all, Roni in my judgment remains what I have assumed he always was, a paid died in the wool professional troll doing his master's (Tropper's) bidding as he now works in the whole Tropper defense to do his part in DAMAGE CONTROL for team Tropper in his vicious tricky way.
In the meantime he is fooling some people, so be it, I can't help it if some people are stupid and want to lull themselves that all is well when Tropper is still not in jail for his many crimes, while Roni knows this and is tying up a lot of people and succeeding in getting the real attention away from focusing on tricky Tropper and from bloggers and snoops doing the mopping up operations to get rid of EJF once and for all as he (Roni) resurrects the old tired debates about the evils of and fighting the likes of Bomzer and by implication Guma (another headache for Tropper who must still go to court/bais din to face Guma, but now with his reputation in shreds), which is also problematic for you because you have undertaken NOT post anti-Guma posts while Roni the Tropper troll doesn't care about you or your blog, he would be very happy to see it shut down, as he drags the discussions away from the main point of cleaning up after Tropper's evils and the need to close EJF down.
To sum up, Roni is functioning as a troll that HELPS Tropper and is gumming up the works on your blog, like a guy who pours sand or sugar into a gas tank faking it as if he is "filling up" your gas tank with useful fuel when in fact he is on your blog to destroy it as much or even more than before.
I have nothing good to say about Roni/Tropper, it's still one "persona" just working within the parameters that Tropper has now contaminated himself with publicly revealed shmutz/radioactivity so Roni has a new way of functioning and speaking like the Joker character in Batman who can take on various disguises.
Let's see how this plays itself out.
Thanks for your patience and understanding.
Sincerely,
RaP.
"Roni/Tropper, I will repeat again what I have told you many times before: I am not involved in gerut in ANY way. I have not received money from anyone to assist in any gerut in any way. I am not associated with Bomzer or Guma or anyone in any way, and I have never met them even for a second. I am not a member of the RCA or any rabbinical organization. I am just a humble blogger."
ReplyDeleteThank you for defining your profile so clearly.
How come that you yourself are so paranoid that Roni should really be Tropper (which I never assumed to be true)?
How come you yourself tell anyone who does not agree with you that he is an acolyte of EJF?
Does the anonymity of the Web make so paranoid?
(You'll see: now you will accuse me of being a Tropper-defender, despite all the contrary comments I made in the past)
"Leah said... Thank you for defining your profile so clearly."
ReplyDeleteRaP: Hi Leah, had you been reading my posts on this blog over the past two years, you would have seen that I have written many times over that I am in no way involved with doing conversions. So your mockery is misplaced. In any case, I was not responding to you, so why do you feel it so important to defend "Roni" now of all times who has displayed so many aspects of himself/Tropper over the past year that it's been almost IMPOSSIBLE to tell where Roni "ends" and Tropper "begins" or the other way around. Many times, posters who know Tropper well affirmed that either "Roni" is Tropper himself, or it's someone who "thinks", "writes" and "speaks" just like him.
So if anyone is to blame for the confusion between Roni and Tropper it is Roni (or Tropper) himself and not those like myself who have taken him seriously and debated him head on, an essentially useless job because he would keep on spewing filthy insults denying everything until he was cornered, just as he/Tropper was cornered and has had to come up with creative ways to "defend" himself in this doomsday scenario, with Tropper trapped in the figurative "Fuhrer bunker" so to speak.
"How come that you yourself are so paranoid that Roni should really be Tropper"
RaP: Honestly, I don't care about Roni at this point. Other far more shocking things have happened, and that is why Roni is here to distract us yet again and waste our time this time going on wild goose chases just as he had set up red herring arguments in the past. We now have a name, face and voice for Tropper's real life mistress in Houston who also was his EJF employee and conversion candidate.
This is not about my or anyone's paranoia about that, and honestly it does not matter who "Roni" is in the "real world" but if you had been carefully following my wording, I see poster "Roni" and Tropper as one "personA" with and "a" at the end of it. Meaning even if they are two different people or persons they still share ONE personA, because when Roni speaks you hear Tropper as if Tropper is THE ventriloquist and Roni is just a puppet mechanically spouting his master's and controller's voice without a brain of his own.
So it makes no difference in terms of what Roni is in real life, but because he took on the role of the ultimate Tropper's and EJF's defender from hell, and minus a few crocodile tears that he sheds that obviously he knows will win him brownie points (remember, EJF and Tropper are all about deception and smoke and mirrors as is now proven) he returns yet again to his old themes of attacking Modern Orthodox rabbis, defending EJF conversion policies, passing judgment of Chabad, attacks on Tropper's enemies, and other posters to this blog as if he were now an "innocent" bystander when he himself participated in the most brutal and punishing arguments defending Tropper and EJF as well as being part of fraud in passing on forged documents to this blog in the name of other rabbis.
To leah, continued.
ReplyDeleteHave you bothered to read Roni's responses and why he was finally banned and blocked from this blog?
He was gone from the time Tropper started his own blog but now that Tropper is disgraced he returns here to his old hunting grounds. Trying adding 1+1 and see what you come up with, it's very fishy and it's not paranoid to think that. You make it sound as if he was an innocent, which raise questions about your motives (oops, Im' not supposed to do that, so I won't). But time will tell.
"(which I never assumed to be true)?"
RaP: So be it. Many are still in denial about Tropper and his evils and are willing to forgive him and remain in denial that EJF is tarred and tainted beyond repair and mustbe shut down to save the honor and dignity of Klal Yisroel.
"How come you yourself tell anyone who does not agree with you that he is an acolyte of EJF?"
RaP: Baloney! Can you prove that?
"Does the anonymity of the Web make so paranoid?"
RaP: What's the point of this statemnent? Does it lessen Tropper's problems and make you feel warm and fuzzy about Tropper now?
"(You'll see: now you will accuse me of being a Tropper-defender, despite all the contrary comments I made in the past)"
RaP: No, I just think you are confused and that you have not bothered to read through all the discussions that have taken place on this blog in the past two years. I am not afraid to take a stand and I have been criticised for it by the owner of this blog in the past, as well as by the formidable Jersey Girl, but so what? I take it in stride, not everyone thinks alike.
Talking of "anonymity" nobody knows who you as "Leah' are either, so stop these kinds of frivolous arguments, sound a little more mature, and stick to the main discussion. Roni was an unyielding vicious spokesman for Tropper and EJF and his own words are enough of an indictment against him regardless if he does or does not share a body or a mind (control) or a room or a bed with Tropper or not!
"LEIB TROPPER: I MUST SAY TO YOU, BEKITZUR NOW, THAT YOU WERE A TERRIBLE RASHA ON THIS ISSUE, THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT HAPPENED HERE THAT EE EFSHAR LEPORTOM. I WOULD BE WRITING THEM, MORE BEARICHUS LATER IF THE RABBI OF THIS BLOG KINDLY PERMITS IT AND AFTER WE HAVE MORE INFO. "
ReplyDeleteWho is he calling the rasha ? Is he addressing tropper directly?
yes
ReplyDelete