Monday, July 18, 2016

Meyer Seewald criticized Yehuda Pogrow's competence as an advocate - Why wasn't this criticism defended or rejected by any of the known blogs or advocates?

Yehuda Pogrow appeared out of nowhere in the aftermath of the shock of the revelations of the abuse of his brother - and shot to the top level of advocates in revealing how he had been abused by his brother and mother and attacking the yeshivas and rabbis - and then plummeted down today with his apology to the public and survivors of abuse that he might have harmed by his actions. 
I wish to apologize to the Public, and particularly to Survivors of abuse, for any harm my actions have caused. My actions did not make me deserving of the public shaming I experienced. Nonetheless, I hold myself to a higher standard in both my personal and professional lives, and I am disappointed in myself for not living up to those standards. I intend to use this as a learning opportunity so that I do not make the same mistakes again.
Should anyone wish to share this, they may feel free to do so. Sincerely, Yehuda Pogrow
As detailed in a previous post, Meyer Seewald (founder of Jewish Community Watch) had strongly criticized Yehuda who in turn threatened to reveal confidential information to defend himself. Yehuda also threatened me with legal action for posting the Facebook information about the dispute. (This despite that I was careful to cite accurately -including noting that the original Facebook pages had been taken down )
facebook
Meyer Seewald
 Yehuda, I will not apologise for warning victims to stay away from you. After I posted the updated post explaining things that may have come out wrong. You threatened the survivors you will expose private things so I removed it. I do not consider you a advocate, nor will I ever work with you. I personally think you need help and until you get the right help you should stay away from working with victims. Please stop tagging me in your comments. I wish you luck on your healing process. 

Yehuda Pogrow Per his request, I will not tag Meyer. However, to shed some context around his remarks, I will explain what really happened behind the scenes yesterday. I possess evidence that proved that the allegations that supported Meyer's defamatory post were outrageously false. The quickest way for me to have proven that the post was defamatory would have been to publicly release this information. I did not do that because I did not want to cause pain to the individuals who promoted my defamation. Rather, I reached out through intermediaries to notify these individuals that if they did not bring their influence to bear on Meyer to delete the post I would feel forced to prove my innocence by releasing the exculpatory evidence. Thankfully, no such release of information was necessary.

Meyer Seewald

You are such a good manipulator it shocks me. Your version of the events are mind boggling. But if that is what makes you and the Ceo of עמותת מגן MAGEN sleep at night then continue on. This is not the first problem they had like this.

Now please just go away. You have caused nothing but havoc for people in the advocacy world. And I think I gave you enough attention. So going forward I will not be responding to your comments.
So now that the issue seems resolved - why am I making a new post rehashing some of the details?

The issue I want discussed is the total silence about Meyer Seewald's warning of potential harm to victims - on the blogs and webpages of advocates dealing with child abuse.

For example, one of Yehuda's advisors and strong advocates is Yerachmiel Lopin of Frum Follies. He not only featured Yehuda's long essay on his Frum Follies Blog  but stated that he was one of those who provided assistance to Yehuda in the writing of the essay. In addition, from Lopin's and other's comments on the Frum Follies blog - it is clear that Yehuda is viewed as a hero and a worthy advocate for victims. There is absolutely no discussion of the validity of Seewald's claims on this blog. While there is one comment that asks "Any input into this disagreement (to put it mildly) between Pogrow and Seewald?" But there is no response. Why not?  [update - FF when anti-abuse activists are wrong is what I  was looking for

Similarly a Google search of Yehuda Pogrow - does not provide any evidence for a discussion of Seewald's charges and Yehuda's defense - except on my blog! There is no discussion on the website of Magen, nor of Amudim nor of even Seewald's own organization Jewish Community Watch. I did not find any comment from Manny Waks either. There are a number of of other websites and blogs that deal with child abuse - I could find no mention of this issue.

So what this seems to mean is that when dealing with an agenda - criticizing yeshivas and rabbis for not going to the police or not being more transparent which are therefore considered to be strong legitimate targets to attack. Why? The answer is obvious the advocates answer - because it is needed to protect the victims.  However, if one of their own might be doing something in their advocacy and attacks on the establishment that is harming victims - well that should be handled privately. We don't want the reputation of the movement tarnished by lashon harah about squabbles and questions of personal integrity. We don't want to be a moser concerning a fellow advocate.

This unfortunately is very similar to the item I posted recently posted about the loud publicity against bias and discrimination against Blacks by the police. I have no doubt that there is bias and discrimination against Blacks and that something needs to be done about as President Obama has repeated stated. But at the same time - the far worse problem of Black on Black crimes not only is not discussed but it is viewed as a private internal issue of the Black community. Sound familiar?

Another example of this dual standard. The World community is very concerned about the alleged mistreatment and war crimes of Israelis against the Palestinians. There are protests around the world at every claim of the Arab press against Israel. There are calls to boycott and imprison Israelis for alleged war-crimes. However the vastly greater numbers of Arabs being killed, tortured raped and repressed by their fellow Arabs - well that is an internal matter for Arabs and it is not for public discussion. see Haaretz

Lest any of my readers think that this is only a problem for goyim or secular Jews. My efforts to publicize the perversions of halacha by the Kaminetsky's and Rav Greenblatt are treated the same way. The report of a Reform or Conservative Rabbi typing up some document of separation is greeted with scorn. There are campaigns against the Modern Orthodox use of prenuptial agreements. There are harsh words hurled at the Open Orthodox. But if a hareidi gadol does something much worse - well that is an internal matter for rabbis to solve. The failure to deal properly with child abuse was justified by - "This in an internal matters for the gedolim." Bloggers who pointed out the obvious are are being still vilified. Every non-Orthodox person instantly recognizes the hypocrisy  of the double standard - but very few frum Yidden did.

Black can kill blacks - but not policemen can't kill Blacks in the line of duty risking their lives to help the Black Community. Arabs can kill Arabs - but Israelis can't kill Arabs in the line of protecting themselves against terrorist attacks against bus loads of people or against defenseless women and children. Chareidi Jews can coverup the abuse done by other Chareid Jews - but not the evil bloggers. Advocates who claim to be protecting the victims of child abuse - can attack educational institutions, communities and rabbis for protecting abusers or for coverups. They can crucify anyone that are charged or even  that there are merely rumors that he committed abuse But they can't criticize one of their own whose actions are possibly harming victims.

It is time to acknowledge the cruelty of this approach in which only certain victims need to be protected and that other victims are off limited because their attacker is one of us. It is time to recognize that that we have met the enemy and he is US.

45 comments :

  1. Any questions on the actions of the anonymous "Yerachmiel Lopin" Frum Follies hate blog is misplaced as he is a Modern Orthodox/YU hater of anything Hareidi and will stoop to any low in his agenda-driven goal of disparaging and spreading animosity and antagonism towards frum Jewry.

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  2. Manny Waks posted on his facebook page support of Mr. Pogrow.

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  3. thanks will check it out and modify the post accordingly

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  4. Couldn't find it. I saw that he mentioned Meir Pogrow. Please provide the quote where he says that he supports Yehuda Pogrow in his dispute with Meyer Seewald?

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  5. Manny posted in support of Pogrow before the dispute with Seewald broke out. I don't know how reacted once Seewald raised his objections.

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  6. Sorry Rabbi E, but I need to disagree with you here. There were plenty of comments, and shares of Meyer's post, and then his new post, and then his newer post. But since this all went through a pattern of postings and deletings, all those comments got lost.

    Rivka Joseph, who YP kept on tagging and saying she was with him posted the following: The biggest b*llshit I ever read... you have done nothing but cause pain nonstop. And you won't stop. You don't know how to stop. Fyi blackmail is a federal crime....
    link: https://www.facebook.com/david.cheifetz.12/posts/10154327989437290?comment_id=10154330867207290&reply_comment_id=10154330901902290
    Why do you Rabbi E. ignore this to prove your point?

    Additionally, YL only assisted YP with the penning of his article, using that to prove support of his advocacy work requires a major leap of logic, one that you just don't have here.
    (Side point, I've spoken to YL about his thoughts, and well, let me just say that I wouldn't consider them to be an endorsement of YP's work as a victim's advocate)

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  7. I am simply making the point that if there is any significant concern about someone's competence - whether it is teacher, therapist or advocate for victims - the concerns need to be publicized to protect the public. A comment on a Facebook page doesn't consistute publicity of any significant level

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  8. When the person in question is advertising him or herself on Facebook, all that is needed is a Facebook warning. The goal here is prevention, Not destruction for the sake of destruction.

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  9. FYI, Lopin did comment, his blog post just came out
    https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2016/07/18/when-anti-abuse-activists-are-wrong/

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  10. I completely dissociate from Yerachmiel Lopin, whose real name is Danny Steinmetz. Subsequent to him having assisted me with my Times of Israel article, I learned items about him that led me to dissociate. The public may feel free to view my Facebook wall for further information.

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  11. Lopin is corrupt, and, within just a few hours after I disclosed his real name on Facebook yesterday, two victims told me firsthand that they felt he harmed them during the process of investigating their abusers. I learned this after he helped me with my Times of Israel article. His real name is Danny Steinmetz. I completely dissociate myself from him. I am ashamed to confess that I, too, fell for his lies. Thankfully, I figured out he is a master liar quickly enough so that he couldn't do too much damage to me.

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  12. I'm very impressed yet wondering why two days after Pogrow revealed the identity of FF you didn't put it on your blog.

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  13. Actually Yehuda Pogrow tried several times to reveal it in his comments here. I simply rejected those comments which included nasty allegations about Lopin.

    One does not feed dysfunction - especially in this case. Aside from that it is considered wrong to reveal the identity of someone who wants it concealed. I see no halachic justification for doing so.

    Since Pogrow has been reading every word on this blog - STOP MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF. YOUR BEHAVIOR IS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE AND IS HARMFUL TO THE VICTIMS YOU CLAIM TO BE TRYING TO HELP

    In addition - much as Lopin and I have had serious disagreements - I do acknowledge that there are things that he gets right . In a choice between Pogrow and Lopin - Lopin wins without the slightest doubts or hesitation.

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  14. Really? You rejected nasty allegations about Lopin?
    And you don't see a justification for revealing his real name?
    That lowlife has destroyed many people lives and many reputations based usually on nothing more than allegations, and you feel you need to protect him!?!

    Wow, are your priorities skewed!

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  15. Btw, pretty that Lopin (DS) is a member of a reconstructionist congregation in Ann Arbor Michigan.
    So he's an apikores in addition to his other sterling qualities.

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  16. Something tells me you have a horse the race and you are concealing something

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  17. I am pretty sure this is irrelevant to the issue at hand - so why bring it up?

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  18. A couple of items: 1) You took my apology as plummeting to the bottom. False. I won't be stopping my work. 2) I received an email signed by all the leading advocates insisting that I stop all work related to survivors of abuse, and demanding that I delete my Survivors for Change page. I let them know I won't be stopping my work. Feel free to ask the leading advocates why they haven't made a public statement, but they most certainly united against me.

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  19. Please send me the statement of the leading advocates - I would like to post it together your comments explaining why they are opposed to you

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  20. I embrace their opposition.

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  21. that goes without saying - I would still like to post their letter to you

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  22. I outed Lopin's real name not out of vengeance. I did it because after reading his piece in which he assassinated my character, numerous victims came forward to tell me their stories of how Lopin harmed them during the course of their interactions with him (as he was "investigating" their stories, etc.). Further, according to Benny Forer (who is no fan of mine), the Brooklyn District Attorney had been trying to track down the real Yerachmiel Lopin for 7 years. I revealed Lopin's real name because I believe it to be in the public interest for his name to be known so he cannot harm more with the protection of a pseudonym. I began little "mission" on a quest to call attention to the rabbinate's misdeeds with regard to cleaning up abuse in the Yeshiva system, but have been horrified to discover that in many cases, the so-called victims advocates do even further harm to victims they purport to protect. I have no allegiances in this, not to right, the left, the "advocate establishment," or anyone else. I simply hope to help survivors heal by having a chance to speak their truths.

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  23. It has been said that in politics, if you anger both the left and the right, you are likely do something right. I have no desire to anger anyone. However, it appears I have angered both the Hardim and the anti-abuse advocates. I have not read this blog at all except in the past couple of weeks but I get the impression that Haredim and advocates -- in general -- do not like each other very much. I find myself further convinced that something very not kosher is happening when both sides find a common enemy in me. As I have said to the advocates, I don't even know why they are paying this much attention to me. I had no idea I had so much power or influence or whatever else it appears they think I possess that I can use to somehow damage victims.

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  24. I further posit that I am not clear why there is a need for victims advocates designated to the Jewish community at all. Much like I called for rabbis to simply encourage complainants to go to the police, why must there be Walls of Shame and "investigations" done by those who are not formally accountable to the public? Why can't the police and civil authorities handle these matters from beginning to end? Why do JCW's and similar organizations have to exist? Perhaps I am missing something but I suspect this is a matter that should be discussed publicly.

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  25. I have never met nor spoken to RDE but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his decision to not publish Lopin's real name comes from a pure place of heart. If it does indeed, I further give him credit for not taking advantage of an easy important to "damage" his sometimes-adversary. Nonetheless, I respectfully submit that RDE's decision on this matter is misguided because I genuinely believe that "outing" Lopin's real name is in the public interest.

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  26. Funny you and I find ourselves agreeing at last...the damage goes beyond what he has inflicted upon those he has publicly ashamed with no basis (I have now joined that prestigious club.) Perhapse the more horrifying damage is that which has gotten no attention: the harm he has done to victims he hurt in the process of "investigating" their stories. I was stunned to have numerous such individuals reach out to me -- to offer me a kind of support, I assume -- when they read his attack piece about me.

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  27. To understand why these organization exist - why not speak to them directly and ask that question?

    I would still like to publish the letter you received from the Advocates along with your commentary as to what it means

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  28. I do not wish to engage in a dialogue with those who have attempted to destroy me publicly based on libel and slander. As for releasing the letter to you (and thereby the public), there are a variety of reasons I have chosen not to, at least for now. One reason is that because at least three of the signatories to the letter have comitted crimes against victims, I am concerned that once those crimes are prosecuted, all the signatories will be deemed guilty in the public eye by association (one of the signatories -- someone about whom I currently have no suspicions of wrongdoing --expressed this concern to me privately). I do not wish to be the reason for that. Further, you have called me out for causing more harm to victims. I am not sure what your thesis is, but perhaps it is similar to that of others who have expressed to me that by calling out those in power for their corruption, it has caused victims to be frightened to seek help from advocacy organizations. My contention is that the public is better off with victims keeping themselves protected from pursuing assistance from those who may well do them further harm under the guise of protecting them.

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  29. This is actualy a good point. These activists are accountable to no one, and that goes double for those who act anonymously, such as Lopin.

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  30. You are basically saying "I have in my hands the evidence that they are harmful." but have not presented any of it. You personally have no haskas kashrus in defaming others by saying they are harmful - without providing some evidence.

    Seewald and Lopin (despite my serious disagreements with him in the past) both have a considerably better track record than yours .If all the major advocates are saying the same thing - that you are not the address to go to for victim support - then at this point you have no credibility to say otherwise.

    I have no problem with you telling everyone that contacts you that they should not speak with you but they should go to the police - but then there is no need for your organization. Just put a recorded message on your phone saying that.

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  31. You pay very close attention. After I replied to Rivka Joseph's comment, she deleted the Facebook comment you referenced. Further, after deliberating on the matter for over a week, I have decided that it is in the public interest to disclose to the public that one of the two individuals who provided information that led to Seewald's announcement is Rivka Joseph. You may recall that I had announced a partnership with Ms. Joseph when starting the Survivors for Change organization. Within days after the onset of our partnership, Ms. Joseph quit and subsequently spread lies about me. Among the lies she has told are that I tried to grab her under the table. That is an accusation of attempted sexual assault. It is an outright lie. Whether someone is a victim / survivor or not, they do not get a pass for making such an outrageous false accusation. It is one of the quickest ways to ruin a man's life. In subsequent days, I have learned from multiple sources of further crimes Ms. Joseph has committed, including harming other survivors. I notified the signatories of the letter that was sent me that it is my recommendation that Ms. Joseph be banished from the advocate community.

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  32. 1) I submit that the "chezkas kashrus Seewald and "Lopin" have enjoyed is woefully undeserved. I believe that ultimately a police and/or major media investigation will ultimately bear that out. 2) I do not seek to be some sort of "investigative" organization, and I have 0 interest in "competing" with JCW. Further, I do not hold myself out as any kind of expert in any of these matters. I am simply a survivor who has encouraged other survivors to join me in telling our stories to the public. Even further, both Yerachmiel Lopin and Rivka Joseph, experienced advocates -- before they turned on me -- expressed that this was a new approach which could in fact yield value to current survivors, as well as help push forward the mission to protect future children by affecting systemic change. Hence the name, Survivors for Change.

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  33. The email that was sent to me signed by multiple leading advocates which demanded that I cease all contact with fellow survivors -- and delete the Survivors for Change Facebook page -- was sent from Manny's email account. I have notified the signatories that I have rejected their requests / demands.

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  34. It is very hard for anyone to believe the truth of your allegations - since you haven't established your crediblity. Your sole claim to fame is that your brother is a certified disaster. The idea of survivors telling their stories is not a new idea. Perhaps you should read up about Rabbi Eisenman of Passaic or better yet hear the recording of the conference he had with surivivors telling their stories. You might want to read my book on Child and Domestic Abuse which has some chapters written by survivors describing what they have experienced. You might want to listen to the White Institute recordings on the sidebar of this blog where a number of survivors presented their stories. There are Youtube videos by survivors. I don't see how you can claim that your idea is original - it has been standard practice for at least 5 years - before you discovered the field.

    your interest in systemic change is also nothing new. This has been on the agenda from the beginning. Not sure why you are so proud of reinventing the wheel?

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  35. It's not about pride. And perhaps "new" was the wrong term for me to use. Perhaps laser-focus would be better. But even that's not quite right. It's a startup organization. A crystallized mission statement is a work in progress.

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  36. LOL

    You made some inappropriate comments right here, on this blog, about your affection for Ms. Joseph. That is part of why I observed you as showing signs of being an abuser or an abuser-in-waiting. Lo and behold, this is claimed about you. I believe it. Oh, why did you delete that comment? Don't worry, I'm sure that there are screen shots of it out there.

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  37. Hello Again, Dear Friend - I confess these past few weeks have been quite stressful. But I can always count on you for some comic relief. If praising a woman for her public work is inappropriate, then I was indeed inappropriate. (In other words, my comments about her on this blog were not inappropriate, except perhaps to the Haredi world, whose standards I have no desire to live up to). I do, however, find myself retracting my positive comments about Ms. Joseph, in light of what I later learned. As for my Facebook comment, I deleted it because it was posted in response to hers. Once she deleted hers, mine was no longer relevant. Thanks again for the entertainment!

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  38. I'm the one paying attention, you are the one making things up as you are going along, Mr. Pogrow. The comment in question IS STILL UP, IT HASN'T BEEN REMOVED. Have a look, and for those of you who can't access facebook, here is a screenshot.
    http://img.techpowerup.org/160724/yp-rj-fb-post.png

    By the way, please stop saying "IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST" when you really mean "IN MY OWN INTERESTS"

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  39. That's odd. I honestly thought she had deleted the comment. Oh well.

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  40. I sense a lot of anger in your remarks toward me. If you don't seek to publicize them, please feel free to email me if you would like to share with me the details of how I have perhaps harmed you. I would most certainly offer you a swift apology.

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  41. Maybe I should publicize all of my thoughts about you and why I absolutely feel that you should be as far away from survivors as possible. Would the rabbi allow me to write a guest article?
    This isn't personal, shame you take everything personally, this is about the victims and what is best for them. You are only looking out for yourself. Your latest comments questioning the needs for organizations such as Tzedek, Mage, JCW and others mimics children on the playground (if I can't play then no one else can play, I'm taking the ball and going home)

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  42. yes a cogent guest post would be welcome

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  43. Rabbi, did you receive my email submission? I sent it a few hours ago. I also emailed you about an edit that needs to be made.
    Thanks for the opportunity to be a guest columnist.

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  44. It blows my mind that people think I am important and/or dangerous enough to warrant spending their time and energy writing pieces about me. Enjoy.

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  45. Yehuda Pogrow is a fake and is trying to play the victim. Stay away from him. He is a disgrace to society just like his brother Mei Pogrow. Read any of these online articles

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/07/an-opinion-regarding-yehuda-pogrows.html

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/another-scandal-lets-not-miss-the-point-this-time-around/

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/on-hard-and-soft-charisma-in-jewish-education-toward-a-taxonomy-of-risk/

    https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2016/07/18/when-anti-abuse-activists-are-wrong/

    https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/tag/meir-pogrow/

    https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/rabbi-meir-pogrow-denounced-for-sexual-misconduct-by-six-rabbis-from-us-and-israel/

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/07/meyer-seewald-criticized-yehuda-pogrows.html

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2016-07-18T13:46:00-07:00&max-results=11

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/07/yehuda-pogrow-advocate-meyer-seewald.html

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Prominent-rabbi-and-educator-accused-of-grooming-abuse-of-power-457329

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