One of the strange puzzles in this scandal is the conduct of the Chicago Beis Din. First they ask the Israel Beis Din to take care of the case - and then they refuse to share the information that they got from purported victims. Then they tell the Israel Beis Din that if the seminaries are sold to Yarmish. they will remove their warning against attending the seminaries - and then they refuse to do so and refuse to explain why. Then when the seminaries are sold to Yarmish with the supervision of Rav Aharon Feldman - the Chicago Beis Din says that it was a sham sale because they falsely claim that Yarmish and Meisels are good buddies. They clearly will not tolerate less than an absolute sale.
I just received the following Chicago Beis Din document which lists the Chicago Beis Din's guidelines for Meisels. It is signed by the entire beis din. Of importance, please note that the CBD does not even require Meisels to sell the seminaries! So why are they complaining about what they mistakenly say is a sham sale - when they didn't even require a sham sale? Anybody have the answer? [It is interesting to note that the document says they are working with Torah U'Mesorah - but that is another issue.]
Why the organizational affiliations of the dayanim?
ReplyDeleteWhat about refund of deposits?
What is the policy when a storeowner is caught with kashrut violations?
Is this a heter arkaotfor criminal cases?
As a psychiatrist, how do you feel about the condition that the therapist can share info with the Beis Din? How is one supposed to be straightforward and get the help they need if they are not assured of confidentiality?
ReplyDeleteIsn't this an amazing thing? They had issued a psak for Meisels. He's out of the seminaries, out of contact with the students, in therapy, but retains ownership. A couple of weeks later they drag him to the IBD. What happened in between? The answer: Gottesman arrived, and put into effect a plan to take possession of the seminaries, with the collusion of the CBD notwithstanding their own original psak! Talk about corruption.
ReplyDeleteThe conduct of the Chicago Beis Din is nothing short of scandalous! That there were ulterior motives at work here gets clearer every day. That they caused some of the greatest talmidei chachamim and dayyanim in Israel to be publicly embarrassed is something that had no mechila. That line of in conjunction with Torah Umesorah ie gottesman will go a long way to explaining their scandalous behavior as you alluded too.As one of the great dayanim in New York told me, that this is what happens when rabbanim who are experts in hilchos nidda and hilchos shabbos decide they are dayyanim! A dayan takes a special skill set of how to be mekabel eidus cross examination and so much more. To compare Rabbis Shafran And Malinowitz with Rabbis Feurst and Cohen is laughable in his words.
ReplyDeleteThis letter and the condition set therein are very understandable.
ReplyDeleteKeep Meisels completely away from girls - in every way, shape and form!
Send him to therapy.
Continuously monitor him, his behaviors and his emotional sate-of mind.
(I would assume that they would even have required him to put a certain amount of money in escrow - once he sells the seminaries etc. - to ensure his continuous compliance. )
What is remarkable here is that they chose to keep this private. At that point, they didn't make this horrible blogsphere debacle where there are only losers. Not one winner.
I don't know this case very well. I will however opine because I can. I think the Beis Din of Chicago should be absolutely forbidden from divulging any information to anyone, beis din or otherwise. Confidentiality must be kept at all cost.
ReplyDeleteI have a BIG problem with any Beis Din that doesn't use Halacha as a guiding principle. Why have a Beis Din altogether, if you are making stuff up, and not basing it on Halacha?? Forcing a sale ????? Where did they come up with that one in Halacha??? Never heard of it?????
Anyone who was molested can go tell people in order to prevent future molestations. Women aren't neemenes so I don't see it as a Beis Din issue. However anyone who has been hurt by this guy has an OBLIGATION to announce it to anyone who has a thought of entering his seminary. Let them call a press conference, let them block out the faces of the victim. Beis Din can't. The victims must!!!
Either way once he is accused in this day and age, he might as well sell the seminaries, because he is done..
"What about refund of deposits?"
ReplyDeleteRefund of deposits would not have been an issue had this ruling remained because the CBD was not planning to publicize anything. The threat of a public letter came once Gottesman inserted himself into the mix. They used the threat, and then the actual letter, to pressure Meisels to hand over the seminaries to Gottesman or sell them for cheap to their choice. Disregarding what they themselves previously decided.
You admittedly do not know the Chicago side of the story . This means that you basically do not know what you talking about . Keep on blogging narashkeit! You will definitely look like a fool at the end.
ReplyDelete"The biggest losers are the students. The students cannot anymore say with pride which seminary they attended."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Shocking irresponsibility and callousness on the part of the CBD.
The letter was then needed to pressure Meisels into selling to Gottesman's choice.
ReplyDeleteUtterly disgusting! How dare they hurt even one girl, student or former student, in order to achieve whatever alternate goal they sought to achieve. Even if they felt absolutely justified in having the Baryon Gottesman rip the seminaries away from Meisels, since when do the ends justify the means?! How dare they destroy hundreds and hundreds of girls trust, idealism and drive simply because they "felt" that Gottesman should be able to get the seminaries.
I know that rabbi eidensohn won't brag but plz everyone get up and tip ur hat to him for being spot on again who the corrupt ones were and prob ask mechila from ibd wouldn't hurt either but
ReplyDeleteHave you verified that Meisels ever signed this document and if so, on what date? At some point after this document was prepared Meisels was in his seminaries though he was gone by some point in June. Is it possible that what followed afterwards resulted from Meisels not complying with his signed agreement?
ReplyDeleteThat was a very weak response/allegation yerachmiel!! being that rabbi eidensohn had the decency to call you worthy adversaries at this point prove him right and admit you were on the wrong side in other words lose like a man
ReplyDeleteWhich brings up the question: did M sell at full price (whatever that is) or at fire sale / discounted price?
ReplyDeleteMeisels was out of his seminaries in May. He complied with everything the CBD required. They are corrupt.
ReplyDelete" since when do the ends justify the means?!"
ReplyDeleteAnd why is the end permitted? There is a din, and they too are required to follow it.
There seems to be a supposition that therapy will cure Meisels. As someone who has seen the research, success rates for sexual predators are extremely low. Too low, in fact, to feel that we are safe as a society with those types of people able to walk freely around society. There is a good basis to rely on the secular court system to try and lock up people who have committed these crimes.
ReplyDelete@Devaorah - I haven't seen anybody asserting that Meisels can be rehabilitated. Where did you see such statements.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore he has not been convicted of serious sexual assault - but judged unfit to run a seminary because of his confession and claims against him. The halacha is that serious charges don't need to be proven to remove someone from teaching but their has to be at least serious rumors or accusations. What crimes are you claiming that he has committed - and on what court - secular or Jewish convicted of these crimes.
The distinction I am making is not hair splitting and is clearly accepted in both secular and Jewish law.
I'm not saying the ends are correct either! However, even to them they should be questioning their actions.
ReplyDelete