Wednesday, August 21, 2013

Weberman Case: Video of interviews on Huffington Post



46 comments :

  1. IY"H Pollard, Weberman, Rubashkin, and all other unjustly incarcerated Jews will be freed through the efforts of Pidyun Shvuyim.

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    1. Why is Weberman being unjustly incarcerated

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    2. Because he is innocent and was unjustly convicted. Such things are commonplace in the American "justice" system.

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    3. Ben seems to believe that any male who is convicted of sexual abuse of a woman or child must be innocent. Furthermore anyone who has been convicted by the secular goverment must be innocent. Finally anyone who is a talmid chachom, a nice guy and has ever done anything for the community is incapable of committing a crime

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    4. That is incorrect. The facts of THIS CASE were not only entirely circumstantial, but the so-called "evidence" was a joke and should have been thrown out of court.

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  2. IY"H Weberman will get the same kind of counselling in jail as he provided. Pidyon shivuyim for him is an aveira

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    1. Leo Frank was as guilty as Weberman and Frank too was convicted in court and received a punishment.

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  3. Ben - you obviously think you know much more about the real word than the rest of us naive people.

    Could you tell me what percent of people found guilty by the American justice system are really innocent? It would help if put this into perspective by providing the rates of false convictions for other systems such as the British, Israeli.

    In fact from your comments it would see you believe that one of the surest signs that a person is innocent is that he got convicted!

    Your only "proof" for you astounding assertion is the Frank case which is hardly representative of justice in the courts today. You desecrate the memory of Frank by equating his unfortunate lynching to Weberman's trial.

    Finally are you planning on setting up a fund for all frum Jews who have been convicted of abusing children such as Andrew Goodman, or Kolko.

    BTW gedolim such as Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and the Steipler do not think that a conviction and jail sentence required pidyon shevuyim. Nor do Rav Eliashiv, Rav Ovadiaya Yosef, etc etc

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    1. Daniel -- Take a look at the news. Almost every day there are stories of innocent people having spent years or even decades in prison, sometimes even on death row, being exonerated much later. It is quite common. There are even full-time organizations such as "The Innocence Project" that are dedicated to freeing the wrongly convicted.

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    2. Ben I asked for facts and you give me your naive impressions. Using your approach to determine guilt or innocence based on the sensational headlines in the secular press I would conclude that all Orthodox Jews are either guilty of massive fraud or pedophilia or both.

      Ben I asked what percentage of cases involve mistaken convictions and how does that compare to other countries? If it is 5 cases a year out of tens of thousands your conclusions are way off.

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    3. Once can close their eyes and bury their head in the sand if that'll convince them that their narrative of Big Bad Jews is correct. Bravo.

      If you want to consider over-prosecution and over-conviction, where prosecutors routinely over-charge defendents with everything under the sun, and hope as much of the accusations they can convince 12 bored, possibly drunk homeless uneducated, jurors who want to get out of court ASAP to get back to their minimum wage job rather than getting the court's $40 a day pay, then I'd say a whole lot.

      Being guilty of a parking violation doesn't make one guilty of treason, even if the prosecutor got that to stick.

      Forget how many falsely convicted were later exonerated. Think how many falsely convicted were never exonerated and are still rotting in prison.

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    4. Ben I asked you a direct question - if you don't know the answer then please admit that you don't know. Doing a dance and a hop skip and jump -instead of answering conveys the message you don't know what you are talking about but are simply shooting off your mouth. Do you know what percentage of convicted people are evenutally exonerated in America and in other societies?

      Your comment - "I'd say a whole lot" is not answer. You can't go around trashing the victims of child abuse and declaring their molesters innocent by saying that "I'd say the system is falsely convicting a whole lot."

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    5. Of course not Daniel. How could I? NO ONE knows "what percentage" of convicted people are actually innocent. You may be able to find out how many convicts are later exonerate, but there are many more who are innocent but are never exonerated. Most wrongly convicted are never exonerated. Only a small percent of wrongly convicted are later exonerated. It isn't even possible to determine what percentage of the wrongly convicted are actually innocent.

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    6. Ben your answer is nonsense. You finally admit you are making serious pronouncements about the innocence of molesters and accusing the victims of false accusation - without any basis.

      Your logic is is similar to someone claiming that the world is full of pink monsters but since they disappear when you look at them - there is no way of validating the assertion or disproving it.

      Ben on the one hand your comments are nonsense but on the other hand they are harmful since they are slandering innocent people based entirely on the observation that some people are in fact wrongly convicted. But you are ignoring the fact that most people who are convicted are guilty.

      Your big proof that Leo Frank was convicted and later lynched for a crime that he didn't do - says nothing about molesters such a Kolko, Weberman, Weingarted etc etc.

      Since you just keep repeating the same obscene defense of molesters - I am simply not publishing anymore of your comments on this topic. Nonsense repeated over and over again does not become wisdom.

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    7. Of course there is a basis. A very strong basis in fact. The very fact that so many innocent people were convicted and later exonerated, proves this is a very unfortunate occurrence that is very far from rate. And common sense tells you that for every exoneration there are others than aren't exonerated.

      In Jewish Law, Halacha takes great precautions that it is better to acquit a guilty man than to G-d forbid risk convicting an innocent man. Secular Law theoretically takes this same position, but in practice is very far from it.

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    8. Ben you are repeating yourself. What percent of people have been exonerated? Is this rate different than any other society - contrary to your assertions?

      In Jewish law there are two tracks. Torah justice sets a high standard of evidence in order to convict. However on the other hand there is a requirement that society survive and that the members have a secure existence as is clearly stated in C.M. 2. the Rashba says that Jerusalem was destroyed because they insisted on following the letter of the law.


      This dual system is discussed in great detail in a recent book by Dr. Aaron Krischenbaum on Jewish Penology. Where he brings the Torah punishment and contrasts with the pragmatic punishment needed for the functioning of society.


      See Rav Moshe Feinstein statement about capital punishment where he describes the two processes.

      http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/12/teshuva-for-capital-crimes-requires.html


      Rav Moshe concludes

      "However this use of the Torah system to run society was only when the crime of murder was not common but was simply the result of someone’s great lust or some quarrel concerning money or honor. But when people killed simply because it was viewed as an insignificant thing and the murderer was simply a callous and cruel person or similarly if there was a great deal of murders and wickedness – then a different system of law was utilized that was concerned with the pragmatic question of stopping killing and the goal became saving the society."

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  4. Ben reminds me of an elderly Satmar Hasid, stopped on the street in Williamsburg during the trial of Weberman, and asked to comment on the case. "Such things don't happen here," he said as he waved his hand.

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    1. Adam reminds me of an elderly barely religious MO Jew, stopped on the street in Teaneck during the trial of Weberman, and asked to comment on the case. "Hareidim are always guilty," he said as he waved his hand.

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    2. ben sorer umoreh Soteh minAugust 22, 2013 at 8:03 PM

      A picture is worth a thousand words. Ochel kashor, uboel kachamor, me'aness bnos yisraoel kedarkah veshelo kedarka, kol arbaim shana tzod nashim mitachat yedei ba'alehen umaneh otam, gam yodea mishkav zachar umeaneh tinokes shel beis raban vechol haba leyado bizroa netuya. Vekol ze rak ktze mimiktzas shvacho, ve'al tidche oti bekash vaetzim veorve porach.

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    3. Except that there are no pictures.

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    4. It is right in front of your eyes, just look up above. Habet einecha ureh, "kreiso bein shinov" - "veheich hachay makchish et hachay". This comes to show the "abujaneh" mentality, even when it hits you in the face, you will say it's raining. You really are trying very hard to deflect the issue at hand pulling it left and right, but will not prevail. In any case, B"H weberman got what he so rightfully deserved. Let the world know, Dam yeladenu eneno hefker, velo yezidin od. Uviarta hara mikirbecha. If the justice system failed leo, we still have the best Justice system in the world, until you come up with something better. Case in point, the Weberman case and prevails with flying colors.

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  5. guilty on all countsAugust 22, 2013 at 3:50 PM

    This guy sounds like the gestner PR machine, patting himself on the back as if equivalent to Rush Limbaugh. Wishful thinking! Not so fast my dear, do not Rush to judgment. The only pidyon or relief he gets is a body bag lined with peanut butter. What he dared to destroy the lives of women and children at his pleasure, burning his insignia with his cigarette lighter onto their bodies, mind you calling it Torah Therapism is Monstrous Voodooism to say the least. The handwriting is on the wall and all over the place. Goebbelling around like an Ostrich hiding its head in the sand will get you nowhere. Your honor, Guilty as Hell, I rest my case.

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  6. Rubashkin, Pollard, and Weberman were ALL GUILTY. The sentences they received are a separate matter, but none of them were convicted for no reason. Pollard admitted to his crime, numerous times; there is no question he did not deserve life imprisonment, but that does not expunge the fact that he did commit a serious crime, regardless of the reasons behind it. Rubashkin was no Tzaddik, despite every Haredi news outlet's attempt to turn him into one. He defaulted on a $25 million dollar loan, employed and exploited illegal workers, and diverted zillions of dollars for his own purposes and selfish endeavors. Again, was his crime so serious that he deserved the sentence received? Probably not, but he was no where near the Gadol HaDor that his defenders continuously try to transform him into.

    And Weberman got what he deserved.

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    1. Right, and Leo Frank was guilty too, eh.

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    2. Shimon ben Shetach son was put to death by the court even though he was innocent and the false witnesses retracted their testimony. Obviously if there are examples presented in the Talmud of wrongful conviction there must have been many others that were not reported and therefore we can conclude....

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    3. We can conclude that a court that executed someone -- anyone, even legitimately guilty -- once in 70 years was considered to be a murderous court. So we can conclude it was excruciatingly rare. Even a legitimate conviction was rare. A mistaken conviction was almost non-existent with all the protections built into Halacha.

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    4. Ben did you bother reading Rav Moshe's teshuva? The issue of once in 70 years was referring to murder and it is representative of only a small part of Jewish history. The halacha clearly allows a lower standard. To protect society the standard changed and the likelihood of punishing the innocent went up. You keep ignoring this obvious fact and historical reality.

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    5. Once in 70 years was how infrequently even a "murderous court" would execute someone. Any lower standard was ONLY applicable during an anomalous period of high crime, something that was atypical and unusual.

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    6. Ben - you are misrepresenting halacha. Did you read Rav Moshe's teshuva? Are you aware that he disagrees with you? Furthermore did you read the original Mishna which you claim shows Jewish law says that it is better to letter the guilty free and not convict the innocent. Can you show me where it says what you are saying?

      The Mishna Makkos 7a states;

      A SANHEDRIN THAT EFFECTS AN EXECUTION ONCE IN SEVEN YEARS, IS BRANDED A DESTRUCTIVE TRIBUNAL; R. ELIEZER B. AZARIAH SAYS: ONCE IN SEVENTY YEARS. R. TARFON AND R. AKIBA SAY: WERE WE MEMBERS OF A SANHEDRIN, NO PERSON WOULD EVER BE PUT TO DEATH. [THEREUPON] RABBAN SIMEON B. GAMALIEL REMARKED, [YEA] AND THEY WOULD ALSO MULTIPLY SHEDDERS OF BLOOD IN ISRAEL!

      You will notice that this is specifically about executions - no statement that you can generalize to other non-capital crimes. Furthermore it is a clear dispute with Rabban Gamliel stating that such an approach would multiply murderers.

      Lets look at the Rambam

      רמב"ם סנהדרין יד:י

      צריכין בית דין להתיישב בדיני נפשות ולהמתין ולא יאיצו, וכל בית דין שהרגו נפש בשבע שנים הרי אלו חבלנין, אף על פי כן אם אירע להם להרוג בכל יום ויום הורגין אבל אין דנין לעולם שנים ביום אחד אלא דנין זה היום והשני למחר, היו שניהם בעבירה אחת ומיתה אחת כגון נואף עם נואפת דנין שניהם ביום אחד, לפיכך אם היה הנואף בועל בת כהן הואיל והוא בחנק והיא בשריפה אין הורגין שניהן ביום אחד.

      Again he clearly states that if the times require it one should have no problem exectuting every day. No mention that this is rare or that there is a bias to rather let the guilty go free then convict the innocent.

      Let's look at the halachic literature which allows punishment even based on rumors!

      Rav Yehuda Silman (Yeschurun volume 15 page 663): …1) Concerning removing the perpetrator from his job. In this issue we establish that the halacha follows the view of the Sho’el u’Meishiv that it is enough that there are bad rumors and there is concern because of doubts. It seems that in such a case where there seems to be a basis for these rumors it is possible to remove him from his job even in the middle of the year and he does not receive any compensation for the remainder of his contract or for loss of job…

      Kiddushin (81a): Rav said that we flog a person because of an evil rumor about him…

      Meiri (Kiddushin 81a): All those who act with inappropriate frivolity until people are constantly complaining about him that he is a sinner is to be flogged based on his activity which leads people to give him a bad reputation – even though no one has given formal testimony that he has sinned… Whoever acts in a way that causes rumors that he is a sinner has violated a negative commandment from Tradition.

      Rambam (Commentary to Kiddushin 4:11): When a man is secluded with an unmarried woman – they both are flogged. However the rule is that the gemora says that a person gets flogged if there are many bad rumors about him and there is no distinction whether the rumors concern an unmarried or a married woman or a male or any other prohibited sexual relationship. Whoever has many bad things said about them, both of those connected with the rumors are flogged. It is prohibited for a Jew to be secluded with that which is prohibited sexually except for an animal or a male. That is because we have a general rule that a Jew is not suspected of having homosexual relations or to be involved in bestiality. However those among the sages who are fastidious, are careful to keep away from all types of seclusion even that with an animal because of their concern with purity….


      In sum, this Mishna Makkos 7a is talking being extra careful about executing people - no other punishment. Even so it is a machlokes whether such an attitude is beneficial or harmful to society. It does not say that one should rather let the guilty for all sins go free rather than possibly punish the innocent.

      Please show me the source that says we should rather let the guility go free than punish the innocent?

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  7. Guys guys!!

    I'm don't understand how all you responsible people, are all of a sudden arguing that a conviction is Torah m'Sinia?! We know they got it right in the Weberman trial, that's what counts. In every other conviction, Ben can be correct, they can very well be wrong for all we know.

    Now to you Ben.

    Regardless of the decision handed down by your "Twelve Angry Drunks", Weberman seems very guilty. This is the conclusion everyone willing to look at the facts came to, long before the conviction.

    The facts they looked at are, his complete disregard for yichud, and the corroborating witnesses. Don't tell us, three hour stretches in triple locked doors doesn't make you very very uneasy! Pile on top of that, the many other victims that have come forth (privately to responsible people). They independently testified to being abused in the same exact sick ways! Top it off with the fact that he aggressively distanced parents and child from each other, and you convinced me. How about you?

    So Ben, your right, the conviction didn't prove anything. It did, however, provide a great relief that justice was done.

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    1. "seems" does not equate with guilt. And it didn't "seem" that way in any event to anyone who looked at the facts. There was no yichud violation or locked doors, that was another false allegation. And there are no other "victims" either. And certainly there never was any "independent" testimony.

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    2. Funny you jumped on the word "seems", I thought you would, if your not interested in the truth. I also used words like conclusion and convinced but you "chopped me beim vort", shame on you.

      Regarding the locked doors, 11 hour trips with her, and his transgressing issuriey yichud in plain sight, NO ONE EVER DENIED THAT. I definitely wasn't there, but even those defending him conceded this as fact.

      You went on to write- And there are no other "victims" (sic) either. By putting that word in quotation marks, your displaying a certainty that he's totally innocent. No sane person can come to that conclusion without some very strong bias. Somebody suggested you vork for a pee arrre, or maybe just a family member.

      For those that do care about the emes here are two important links:

      http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=1630&ThisGroup_ID=238&ID=Newest&Type=Article

      http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=1662&ThisGroup_ID=238&Type=Article

      Here are two important excerpts;

      "I personally heard from four additional victims of Weberman, all of whom were terrified to come forward and press charges because of community intimidation. They didn't know each other, but they all told the same stories, described similar forms of physical abuse - some of which became public knowledge during the trial.

      Just one horrific example: Those of us close to the case heard from the victims that Weberman was burning many of them on their abdomens with cigarette lighters and candles as part of his warped fantasies. However, this was only discussed at a side bar during his trial and did not become public knowledge until this New York Post Article ran a few days after the verdict."

      "Mr. Hynes, the Brooklyn DA went on record in several interviews that there is “at least one more victim,” (who has come forward but is afraid to testify), and his ADA’s have previously stated that they are in conversations with six of Weberman’s victims."

      Finally, when I wrote "They independently testified to being abused in the same exact sick ways" I simply meant - They didn't know each other, but they all told the same stories, described similar forms of physical abuse.





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    3. You have no clue of what you are talking about. For the Judge, Jury as well as the packed courtroom that heard testimony from the victims mouth, and saw all the presented exhibits, have looked at all the facts very thoroughly. The door was padded with three locks, inside and outside. There are many other victims asides of the twelve that offered to testify. You are nothing but a pathetic liar. Go away.

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    4. There were no 11 hour trips with her. No such lie was ever conceded.

      There were NO other accusers. Period. Yanky Horowitz's unsubstantiated claims of anonymous sources are not credible.

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    5. Your anonymous denial of allegations are not credible - especially your absurd assertion that Rabbi Horowtiz's claims are not credible.

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    6. Horowitz offered absolutely no corroboration of his allegations other than his word of some allegedly anonymous claims.

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    7. Rabbi Horowitz has established his credentials and when he says something it is credible. In addition I have heard this from others that are knowledgable and trustworthy. As opposed to this is your anonymous trashing of others that you disagree with - without presenting the slightest evidence.

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    8. If he "has established his credentials" please share what, when, where and how he has ever established that. He is a known controversial fellow who only established whatever you think he established with his yes-men cliche.

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  8. Hey Big Ben, why don't you tell Mr. farkas that you had a brainstorm and have the Grand Molester set Scott free, since it is a wrongful conviction. Furthermore, the Jury was drunk, bored, underpaid, homeless, uneducated, rushing back to their minimum wage job, double parked ticketed cars, and last but not least, Leo Frank! An Attorney you will never be, so what would you like to be when you grow up, huh? Other than that my friend, you are a great dream team lawyer. As for weberman, thank G-d, good riddens.

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    1. Translate your incoherent ramble to standard English if you expect anyone to understand your scribble.

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    2. standard translationAugust 24, 2013 at 1:17 AM

      Kol kore bamidbar

      Since you are dyslectic, then let me give it to you in small change, you lil pipsqueak. Weberman was raping left and right, women, girls and boys, and many Rabanim have taken protocol from married women as it is well known in the community. The girl victim told her mother that menuvel Weberman wants to take her for a long ride in the car and protested that it is yichud. When the mother protested the same, this jerk sheigetz has made the Mother apologize in writing. No matter how many signatures he collects, he still remains a NAVAL MENUVEL shelo birshut haTorah, kappish. Dina demalchuse dina, a court with 12 jurors, unanimously found him GUILTY on all counts, hevanta? There were at least twelve victim witnesses on standby, if necessary. Right next to the courtroom at all times, there was one witness in waiting ready, willing and able to testify on moments notice, if called for. When the prosecution presented the Exhibit of the receipts for the bras he gifted the girls from his Credit card, Weberman on the stand wiped of his smirk, lost his composure, became red like a chilli pepper, and a big puddle of "pippi" was on the floor underneath his chair. I am putting it in "Mamme loshon", since you have a comprehension problem in English, fershteist! BTW, my scribble is scribbled with standard Qwerty keyboard in Ascii language. The verdict has been publicised from one end of the world to the other, Lediraon Olam in tattele loshon. The fact remains that humanity is now safe from this Brutal butcher rapist thank G-d. Your denials are all in vain, no one believes a word you say. Indeed, it is like you are pippi'ing against the wind in middle of the ocean, and end up pippi'ing all over yourself. Do you now already understand, Huh? I can't hear you, Mr. Shmegegi.

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    3. Sheker. Inventing points doesn't enhance the belivability of your writing.

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    4. @ A/XYZ/AKA Ben/ ben sira/ben bliyaal/vechol minei shemos hanirdafimAugust 25, 2013 at 6:53 PM


      Talk is cheap. Just by saying sheker and being in denial is totally meaningless. You sound like Kayin, Hashomer ochi anochi, he didn't see or hear anything. Had you been in the courtroom, you would have heard from the prosecution the charges of Yichud driving her around for 11 hours, got back home when already pitch dark. Weberschmutz never denied those facts, nor did the Defence, comes you and declares 'lo dubim velo ya'ar'. His answer to this charge was that he left the window open an inch from the tinted windows. How stupid can you get? Even if true, one inch does not give a Birds (Faygele) view of the goings on in the car, never mind in midst of driving on the Highway. He then went on - on the stand under oath, with even a bigger stupidity and AM HA'ARATZUS, that Yichud is not Mideoraysa blah blah blah..., since it was decreed only **** ROFL **** when King David came back from the war - more blah blah blah. What does LEVIVOT doughnuts of Tamar VeAmnon have anything to do with King David's war with the Plishtim, I cannot fathom. Your cheap PR folds like a cheap old BS camera and house built from a deck of cards. I do not have to mention the Tons of credibilty Yankie has saving our precious children from the claws of vicious molesters and bringing many back from OTD, hamefursam eino tzarich ra'aya. You could not polish his shoes, even if you wanted to. Your only credibilty is to support a RASHA bechol haperushim, denying a holocaust of our children, machzik liyedei ovrei aveirah. Hayedayim yedei Eisav, ta'anotecha ta'anat Hevel, dam achoteinu tzoakim elenu min ha'adama, beod ot Kayin bemitzcho.

      So much for your unbelievable inventions. Everything is on record, for the whole wide world to see, except for the Blind, Deaf and the DUMB. So much for your pack of lies. If you only know what's good for you, 'sim et haraglayim al haktafayim vetauf mikaan." For those that are comprehensionly challenged, here is an easy translation. Take two eggs, place it in your shoes, and BEAT IT! get it?

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    5. Your megila is untrue.

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    6. rudolph the red nosed reindeerAugust 27, 2013 at 1:39 PM

      Not every day is purim, especially when the lives of women and children is in harms way. By now Mr. Pinnocchio, your lies and NOSE must be so big, you cannot fit through the door.

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  9. DT, Here you go:

    ויותר טוב ויותר רצוי לפטור אלף חוטאים, מלהרג נקי אחד ביום מן הימים

    It is better and more satisfactory to acquit a thousand guilty persons than to put a single innocent one to death.

    - Rambam, The Book of Mitzvos, prohibition 290

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