Who does Rabbi Dov Lipman of Yesh Atid speak for? Part 3.

Guest Post by RaP.    Part 1 (February 14, 2013)      Part 2 (May 7, 2013)

Events are moving quickly on this topic. Rav Aron Feldman shlit"a the current Rosh HaYeshiva of the Ner Yisroel Yeshiva (NIRC) in Baltimore, Maryland, USA has issued a letter officially disassociating himself, NIRC and his predecessor Rav Yaakov Weinberg z'l from one of its alumni Rabbi Dov Lipman who also has his ordination from NIRC. On an audio recording Rabbi Feldman also condemned Lipman as a "rosha" (wicked) saying that Lipman was a "shona upiresh" (basically that Lipman had "gone off the derech" (OTD)) and compared him to "Amalek and Haman", see the post Rav Feldman says Rabbi Lipman's hashkofa's In return, Rabbi Lipman quickly responded (he obviously has mastered the art of rapid response, something perfected by "Team Clinton" in winning the media wars and gaining favor in public opinion out there) denying the validity of the gross insults ands asking for an apology, correctly so, but at the same time confirming that he is going by his own calculus with his own agenda, that in point of fact he accurately states he imbibed AS AN AMERICAN at NIRC, see Rabbi Lipman's response to Rav Aharon

It is very informative to read how Rabbi Lipman defends himself and how he justifies his positions, see the full article at Baltimore Jewish Life  that he addresses to the "Baltimore Jewish Community" and its worth an analysis:

It's now a "battle of the tapes" as an audio recording of something Lipman supposedly said became the subject of an audio recording from Rav Feldman posted online that denounces him. No actual discussion or meetings or simple phone calls have been made here. It is just one person playing recordings to another person who then makes a counter recording attacking the first recording, that then leads to articles and discussions online and in the media but so far the parties are not talking to each other but past each other. At times the Charedim scream in frustration and at other times they speak softly and make frightening declarations that are aimed at their opponents to dehumanize and demean them that will not solve problems but will only aggravate them. Nothing constructive is happening.

At least Lipman is honest when he says that "The [secular] Israeli government should not fund [Torah] institutions which don't teach basic math and English. Yeshivos which don't do so will not be closed down but they won't receive government funding." And as he rightly points out that "It should be pointed out that there are numerous yeshivos which already take zero government money and continue to flourish." The point here is simple and so far Charedim have not grasped it, THAT YOU CANNOT INSULT YOUR OPPONENTS AND THEN ASK THEM TO FORK OVER BILLIONS AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED! Charedim will have to stop asking secular Israelis for money and instead will have to come up with ways to support themselves independently. The Israeli government is a not a "frum tzedaka" it has enough jobs that it does for everyone, Charedim included, for free. It runs the army to protect all Jews. It builds runs the infrastructure like sewage and roads and lights and water and electricity and hospitals, it does not have enough to pay every unemployed person a full time "salary" for life for the best of reasons because that is a job for the Messianic Age (maybe) and there is just not enough money. Charedim must learn to do lots more good KIRUV and PR (just as Lipman has done for himself) to WIN OVER the secular Israelis to want to help them. So far all they are doing is yelling and now getting Charedim from America to join in the fray.

Lipman is not wrong in wanting to help Israelis learn something to get jobs. But who on Earth taught him that a bit of Math and English will help??? Isn't Israel in the Middle East?? Why not teach all Israelis Arabic to be able to connect and trade with the Arabs? What's so great about "English" of all things? What kind of "Zionism" is it when for so long Jews strove to learn Hebrew and now they should learn English? Israelis sound so awful when they speak English. It is just not their cup of tea. Why prepare them for yerida to America?! Lipman could help himself by saying that he is open to finding ways to help frum people get parnosa and it has NOTHING to do with either English OR math! The things Israelis learn and earn money from are stuff like truck driving, mechanics, engineering, computers and none of that really requires English it can ALL be learned in Ivrit. A frum Jew does not need to learn English or math to open a store, run a little business and buy and sell things. Basic arithmetic is part of Torah learning. Whatever else needs to be figured out there are gadgets that everyone can get. Lipman and Yesh Atid should stop pestering the Charedim and cut them loose. Stop focusing on them and talking about them. At some point it sounds like anti-Semitism to harp so much about what is wrong with the "Jews/Charedim" and it must stop!

Then Lipman makes his biggest mistake when his slip shows and he sound like the true Jewish day school boy from Silver Spring that he really is with his limited knowledge about the Torah world. No Chasidim and no Yeshiva people are ever going to limit themselves to "proposing that 1,800 elite Torah scholars per year be recognized as serving the state and the Jewish people through their Torah study" -- that is such a goyish idea and a suggestion that's just LAUGHABLE because no such concept exists in the Torah world.

Lipman and Yesh Atid have to realize that people are entitled to choose their own way in life, especially a religious way of life that Jews have practiced for thousands or hundreds of years. While many have become the "learners of Torah" many others become the "supporters of Torah" and this CANNOT and SHOULD NOT and WILL NEVER be put into "quotas" as if it was some sort of "think tank" since the world of Torah Judaism does not need the secular state of Israel to help it formulate notions about how to be better Torah Jews, it goes the other way around that on the spiritual plane the secular state of Israel needs the learners of Torah to sustain everyone and the world. Of course people should be able to have a decent job, but that is not something that either rabbis or politicians can force or legislate, it is something that SOCIETY effectuates and produces voluntarily and naturally and of course G-d Himself is the ultimate source of parnosa.

Lipman should have known that sooner or later he would be targeted by even higher rabbis, and it will not get any easier for him. He is right to protest the injustice of being compared in any way to "Haman" and "Amalek" and who can argue with his obviously painful words that "Comparing me or anyone in my party to Amalek and Haman who wanted to kill all Jews including 'children and women' is simply incomprehensible. We are going to help Chareidim sustain their families - literally feed their children - and we are compared to murderers???"

Lipman is right that he true to his creed and education at Ner Yisroel Yeshiva (NIRC) that was founded by Rav Yaakov Yitzchok Ruderman zt"l and where college education for parnosa was not only allowed but encouraged!!! Not just at NIRC, but at many other famous yeshivas such as Torah Vodaas, Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Berlin and many others today there are the yeshiva students who attend college part time and become professionals down the line. BUT NOT THE CHASIDISHA YESHIVOS, yet they too, in America allow a basic amount of secular studies in the elementary grades, so Lipman is right and now wants to bring this over to Israel.

For a long time Eretz Yisrael has resisted this trend and fought it as an inroad of the Haskala. There is a cherem in Yerushalayim against such education signed by past rabbis. But Lipman and thousands of FBC=Cool But Frum Charedi-educated men and women who have gone to college are finally defying the age-old Yerushalmi outlook, the very "New Charedim" who are being feared, and as their numbers increase they will succeed in setting up the kind of education they had in America to help their children because you can't take modern American Charedim and tell them they must now live like impoverished Yerushalmis. That was an old approach up to about 20 or 30 years ago.

Finally, what should really be noted is his last paragraph that shows that while Yesh Atid and Rabbi Lipman have positive ideas and want to do good KIRUV it leaves the Charedim mystified and in the dark fumbling to come up with a yet to be formulated response to things like this that sound like they came right out of an Aish HaTorah handbook:

"I would have never joined this party without meeting its leaders first and really understanding who they are and their intentions. The ministers and Knesset members in my party have no hate towards anyone and are not hoping that anyone becomes less religious. Yair Lapid openly declared that the religious side in Israel has shown the secular side that our basis to be in this land is G-d and our Tanach. The driving force behind our policies regarding the Chareidim is to generate unity and most importantly to get Chareidim to the work force. Money will be flowing to programs to help Chareidim get to work. My dream is to see the hi-tech corridors of Raanana, law and accounting firms in Tel Aviv, and government offices in Yerushalayim filled with Chareidim. Most young Chareidi young men are not cut out to learn Torah day and night for their entire lives and this will empower them to be Talmidei Chachamim, Bnei Torah, and also supporting their families with dignity. This will also have an immensely positive effect on Israeli society which will finally see the beautiful values and people in the Chareidi world. My e-mail in-box is filled with letters of support from Chareidim who say they finally see a future for their children - they will remain Chareidi but also not be impoverished. I must also note that our party started the first ever Beis Midrash for Knesset members in the history of the Knesset. Every Tuesday at 3:00p.m. we stop our busy schedules and sit in a committee room and learn Torah together - religious and secular MK's. Is this a group of people who deserve to be called reshayim, Haman, and Amalek?"

Can anyone point out what is wrong with anything here please ???????????

The Charedim must wake up or they will be left in the opposition for many years to come with the only thing left to them is screaming and tantruming in the Knesset and issuing all sorts of Kol Korehs and declarations that do not amount to a heap of beans and that have no teeth to them.