ORA Post removed - Rabbi Jeremy Stern said item was unauthorized
I removed the recent posting regarding Ora. Rabbi Stern said that the item posted on his web site had not been approved for posting. It has in fact been removed from the ORA website
What does Rabbi Stern mean that the item supporting the Women of the Wall on ORA's website was not approved for posting? The website was hacked? ORA does not have that many employees that Rabbi Stern would not know what they are doing. It seems much more likely that Rabbi Stern removed the item after ORA was criticized for supporting the Women of the Wall.
You ask a very good question. At the least, the language he uses without saying he agrees or disagrees with the post shows you the delicate political balance Stern (no rabbi) needs to play in his position. We, orthodox Jews, have clear leadership on this matter and we have been told that we are not for what they stand for. Stern can't even say that. I believe that Lakewood joined this feminist leaning group at a rally last year. I would wonder what those who joined them say about Rabbis like Harav Steinman and their personal views of WoW. Oy Lrasha Oy Lscheino. Stern and his people do not feel G-d is fair. They feel he is a anti-feminist. Whether Stern approved the posting or not, we all know what he personally feels. That is why we weren't shocked at the posting and why we smirk at his response. If Stern wants to show us his opinion is different that a pro-WoW stance, I challenge him to say it.
having worked in PR/social media i can state flat out that messages get set out before everyone who needs to be in the loop has a chance to properly review them. it happens. i am not stating that it happened here, just that the claim is not far fetched.
As Ben Waxman points out, this is easy and has happened to other organizations. All it takes is one person with the technical ability to post, but who doesn't have authority to speak for the group (e.g., the intern who volunteered to manage the Facebook and Twitter accounts), to decide on her own that something is suitable for posting.
Rabbi Jeremy Stern is currently the President of Mount Sinai Jewish Center. The Center's long-time rabbi, Rabbi Mordechai Schnaidman was effectively fired (he became "rabbi emeritus") because he would not move the Center in a sufficiently egalitarian direction. Rabbi Schnaidman was no right winger - semicha from RIETS and PHD from Columbia. http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/K847-2009). I was told that Rabbi Stern was a leader of the group that forced Rabbi Schnaidman into retirement.
Now that Rabbi Schnaidman is retired, the Center has moved rapidly in a feminist direction, and, for example, has a "yoetzet halacha."
An account of a meeting at which Rabbi Schnaidman attempted to defend his refusal to move in a more egalitarian direction can be found at http://jewess.canonist.com/?p=360
DT: Why did you have to remove this blog because Stern said "unauthorized"? How many names of men and blogs against them are being placed on the internet against men that are also "unauthorized" by the men. Their rights dont matter to ORA then why should you care what ORA feels?
I didn't have to remove it. But I have no reason to doubt Rabbi Stern when he says it was unauthorized and so until there is some supporting evidence - I have no basis for saying that it represents his views.
ORA's website is not updated that often, and Rabbi Stern does not have very many people working for him (probably 2 or 3 people). So, even absent any concrete evidence, it is hard to believe that anything is posted without Rabbi Stern's sign-off. And if the posting supporting the Women of the Wall was not authorized, that also says something about the organization and about Rabbi Stern as its leader..
That Rabbi Eidonsohn took down the post about ORA's support for the Women of the Wall based on Rabbi Stern's claim that the post was unauthorized says much about Rabbi Eidonsohn's giving the benefit of the doubt to someone about whom he has been critical and his willingness to bend over backwards to avoid conflict, as well as the fairness and decency with which he maintains this blog. If Rabbi Stern had a similar attitude towards the cases he takes on, those cases would be resolved much more quickly. But Rabbi Stern instead assumes the worst about potential targets, and is eager to sensationalize and flat out spread falsehoods. He attempts first to bully, intimidate, threaten, harass and attract media attention (before learning what the facts are) as he is looking for publicity and to fundraise for his organization, and therefore consistently acts in bad faith; whether a get is given and received is, as far as Rabbi Stern is concerned, irrelevant at best.
Its regrettable that you seem to be blocking comments expressing true but critical viewpoints on the YU based feminist ORA organization, ie an organization trying to dismantle Torah law and replace it with draconian anti-male, anti-family, man-made laws.
Your attitude is a perfect example of the Chareidi weakness and vacillation that allows corrupt anti-Torah organizations like ORA to flourish. If authentic Judaism is ever restored, it may be in spite of, and not due to the Chareidi camp.
When are you going to decide which side of the fence you want to be on?
ELY, It is a bit ironic that you accuse DT of being weak on ORA. This blog has often criticised ORA, its supporters, and its halachic advisors, as well as other Rabbis who are innovative in get law. Next, the allegation of hareidi weakness allowing "corrupt" organisations to flourish is incorrect. Hareidi are often at the forefront of the attacks on the MO. Whether they are corrupt, correct are misguided is a separate discussion.
Finally, it is not an issue of sitting on the fence. There are various libel laws in place, and cyberspace is not immune. If you wish to make statements on your own blog, then do so, but first check you are on the right side of the legislation.
I'm glad to see you agree with me Eddie, and you're finally coming to your senses.
To "innovate" means to make changes in anything established or to introduce something new for the first time (see dictionary.com).
Therefore it appears that you also recognize that ORA and its cronies are attempting to forcefully replace Torah law given by the Creator at Har Sinai with PC feminist man-made (or woman-made) laws.
What does Rabbi Stern mean that the item supporting the Women of the Wall on ORA's website was not approved for posting? The website was hacked? ORA does not have that many employees that Rabbi Stern would not know what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteIt seems much more likely that Rabbi Stern removed the item after ORA was criticized for supporting the Women of the Wall.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteYou ask a very good question. At the least, the language he uses without saying he agrees or disagrees with the post shows you the delicate political balance Stern (no rabbi) needs to play in his position. We, orthodox Jews, have clear leadership on this matter and we have been told that we are not for what they stand for. Stern can't even say that. I believe that Lakewood joined this feminist leaning group at a rally last year. I would wonder what those who joined them say about Rabbis like Harav Steinman and their personal views of WoW. Oy Lrasha Oy Lscheino. Stern and his people do not feel G-d is fair. They feel he is a anti-feminist. Whether Stern approved the posting or not, we all know what he personally feels. That is why we weren't shocked at the posting and why we smirk at his response. If Stern wants to show us his opinion is different that a pro-WoW stance, I challenge him to say it.
Deletehaving worked in PR/social media i can state flat out that messages get set out before everyone who needs to be in the loop has a chance to properly review them. it happens. i am not stating that it happened here, just that the claim is not far fetched.
DeleteAs Ben Waxman points out, this is easy and has happened to other organizations. All it takes is one person with the technical ability to post, but who doesn't have authority to speak for the group (e.g., the intern who volunteered to manage the Facebook and Twitter accounts), to decide on her own that something is suitable for posting.
DeleteRabbi Jeremy Stern is currently the President of Mount Sinai Jewish Center. The Center's long-time rabbi, Rabbi Mordechai Schnaidman was effectively fired (he became "rabbi emeritus") because he would not move the Center in a sufficiently egalitarian direction. Rabbi Schnaidman was no right winger - semicha from RIETS and PHD from Columbia. http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/K847-2009). I was told that Rabbi Stern was a leader of the group that forced Rabbi Schnaidman into retirement.
ReplyDeleteNow that Rabbi Schnaidman is retired, the Center has moved rapidly in a feminist direction, and, for example, has a "yoetzet halacha."
An account of a meeting at which Rabbi Schnaidman attempted to defend his refusal to move in a more egalitarian direction can be found at http://jewess.canonist.com/?p=360
frankly the issue is not Jeremy Stern but how R H Schachter is the leader of these biryonim.
ReplyDeleteDT: Why did you have to remove this blog because Stern said "unauthorized"? How many names of men and blogs against them are being placed on the internet against men that are also "unauthorized" by the men. Their rights dont matter to ORA then why should you care what ORA feels?
ReplyDeleteI didn't have to remove it. But I have no reason to doubt Rabbi Stern when he says it was unauthorized and so until there is some supporting evidence - I have no basis for saying that it represents his views.
Delete"Now that Rabbi Schnaidman is retired, the Center has moved rapidly in a feminist direction, and, for example, has a "yoetzet halacha.""
DeleteThe original Yoetzet Halacha was called Devora. She was a Shofetet.
ORA's website is not updated that often, and Rabbi Stern does not have very many people working for him (probably 2 or 3 people).
DeleteSo, even absent any concrete evidence, it is hard to believe that anything is posted without Rabbi Stern's sign-off.
And if the posting supporting the Women of the Wall was not authorized, that also says something about the organization and about Rabbi Stern as its leader..
That Rabbi Eidonsohn took down the post about ORA's support for the Women of the Wall based on Rabbi Stern's claim that the post was unauthorized says much about Rabbi Eidonsohn's giving the benefit of the doubt to someone about whom he has been critical and his willingness to bend over backwards to avoid conflict, as well as the fairness and decency with which he maintains this blog.
ReplyDeleteIf Rabbi Stern had a similar attitude towards the cases he takes on, those cases would be resolved much more quickly. But Rabbi Stern instead assumes the worst about potential targets, and is eager to sensationalize and flat out spread falsehoods. He attempts first to bully, intimidate, threaten, harass and attract media attention (before learning what the facts are) as he is looking for publicity and to fundraise for his organization, and therefore consistently acts in bad faith; whether a get is given and received is, as far as Rabbi Stern is concerned, irrelevant at best.
@DaasTorah,
ReplyDeleteIts regrettable that you seem to be blocking comments expressing true but critical viewpoints on the YU based feminist ORA organization, ie an organization trying to dismantle Torah law and replace it with draconian anti-male, anti-family, man-made laws.
Your attitude is a perfect example of the Chareidi weakness and vacillation that allows corrupt anti-Torah organizations like ORA to flourish. If authentic Judaism is ever restored, it may be in spite of, and not due to the Chareidi camp.
When are you going to decide which side of the fence you want to be on?
ELY,
DeleteIt is a bit ironic that you accuse DT of being weak on ORA. This blog has often criticised ORA, its supporters, and its halachic advisors, as well as other Rabbis who are innovative in get law.
Next, the allegation of hareidi weakness allowing "corrupt" organisations to flourish is incorrect.
Hareidi are often at the forefront of the attacks on the MO. Whether they are corrupt, correct are misguided is a separate discussion.
Finally, it is not an issue of sitting on the fence. There are various libel laws in place, and cyberspace is not immune. If you wish to make statements on your own blog, then do so, but first check you are on the right side of the legislation.
@Eddie - "innovative in get law.":
DeleteI'm glad to see you agree with me Eddie, and you're finally coming to your senses.
To "innovate" means to make changes in anything established or to introduce something new for the first time (see dictionary.com).
Therefore it appears that you also recognize that ORA and its cronies are attempting to forcefully replace Torah law given by the Creator at Har Sinai with PC feminist man-made (or woman-made) laws.
ELY, I never supported ORA, so anyone who says I did is mistaken or dishonest.
DeleteA lot of things have changed since Sinai. So are you taking a Karaite perspective?