The question is: what is the underlying cause of the depression. Some people eat crap, smoke and never exercise, then they get heart attacks. Some exercise, eat fivre and get heart attacks. The former require lifestyle changes, not pills. The latter require the opposite. Depression is no different. Some people have crappy lives and are depressed. They need change, not pills but are often prescribed something anyway because nothing else is available to help. Plus this effect has been known since Prozac first came to market.
There's much psychological research that certain behaviors (aerobic exercise, spending time in nature, volunteering, eating dark chocolate, writing in a journal, listing things you're grateful for, getting enough sleep, meditating/praying, even drinking tea or coffee or taking a cold shower) significantly improve mood. I have a feeling that if doctors "prescribed" several of these behaviors to depressed patients, it would help in a many (if not all) cases.
I listened to the segment when it aired. What comes out is that anti-depressants work best on severe depression. That indicates they are very much NOT a placebo, but that smaller problems can be solved differently.
I listened to the segment when it aired. What comes out is that anti-depressants work best on severe depression. That indicates they are very much NOT a placebo, but that smaller problems can be solved differently ============= Don't know why you are minimizing the results. Of course it is not a placebo for severe depression. But it is for everything else. That is is a huge problem. We are spending billions of dollars for medication which is unnecessary along with suffering unnecessary side effects.
R Eidehnosh- I'm not minimizing the results, which happen to be astounding. I was more reacting to stuff I've read from some pop therapists who believe that the whole industry is based on junk science. It clearly isn't.
"But it is for everything else... We are spending billions of dollars for medication which is unnecessary along with suffering unnecessary side effects."
Of course it's a problem. The question what the solution is and what to do till we find that solution. Should we tell all the mildly depressed people that we're just giving them a placebo, so as to forestall them feeling the real relief that they (le'chol hadaeyos) feel?
The question what the solution is and what to do till we find that solution. Should we tell all the mildly depressed people that we're just giving them a placebo, so as to forestall them feeling the real relief that they (le'chol hadaeyos) feel? =========== they should be given physical exercise or support groups or simply encouraged to get involved with others. This is mentioned in the video
"they should be given physical exercise or support groups or simply encouraged to get involved with others. This is mentioned in the video"
I'm not sure what you mean. Should they stop the meds altogether? If so, you run risk of what happens if they don't exercise or join a support group or get involved with others. Remember, it's much easier to get someone to pop a pill, than to get them to run a mile. (Heck, I'm not even depressed and I *still* have a hard time doing it even though I know I should!) If you mean they should combine it with the meds, then I doubt 'big pharma' would disagree.
The question is: what is the underlying cause of the depression.
ReplyDeleteSome people eat crap, smoke and never exercise, then they get heart attacks.
Some exercise, eat fivre and get heart attacks.
The former require lifestyle changes, not pills. The latter require the opposite.
Depression is no different. Some people have crappy lives and are depressed. They need change, not pills but are often prescribed something anyway because nothing else is available to help.
Plus this effect has been known since Prozac first came to market.
Placebos are very powerful, not just for mental ailments but physical ailments too.
ReplyDeleteThat's why witch doctors and shamans have always played a role in primitive societies.
There's much psychological research that certain behaviors (aerobic exercise, spending time in nature, volunteering, eating dark chocolate, writing in a journal, listing things you're grateful for, getting enough sleep, meditating/praying, even drinking tea or coffee or taking a cold shower) significantly improve mood. I have a feeling that if doctors "prescribed" several of these behaviors to depressed patients, it would help in a many (if not all) cases.
ReplyDeleteI listened to the segment when it aired. What comes out is that anti-depressants work best on severe depression. That indicates they are very much NOT a placebo, but that smaller problems can be solved differently.
ReplyDeleteshaul shapira said...
ReplyDeleteI listened to the segment when it aired. What comes out is that anti-depressants work best on severe depression. That indicates they are very much NOT a placebo, but that smaller problems can be solved differently
=============
Don't know why you are minimizing the results. Of course it is not a placebo for severe depression. But it is for everything else. That is is a huge problem. We are spending billions of dollars for medication which is unnecessary along with suffering unnecessary side effects.
R Eidehnosh- I'm not minimizing the results, which happen to be astounding. I was more reacting to stuff I've read from some pop therapists who believe that the whole industry is based on junk science. It clearly isn't.
ReplyDelete"But it is for everything else... We are spending billions of dollars for medication which is unnecessary along with suffering unnecessary side effects."
Of course it's a problem. The question what the solution is and what to do till we find that solution. Should we tell all the mildly depressed people that we're just giving them a placebo, so as to forestall them feeling the real relief that they (le'chol hadaeyos) feel?
The question what the solution is and what to do till we find that solution. Should we tell all the mildly depressed people that we're just giving them a placebo, so as to forestall them feeling the real relief that they (le'chol hadaeyos) feel?
ReplyDelete===========
they should be given physical exercise or support groups or simply encouraged to get involved with others. This is mentioned in the video
"they should be given physical exercise or support groups or simply encouraged to get involved with others. This is mentioned in the video"
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what you mean. Should they stop the meds altogether? If so, you run risk of what happens if they don't exercise or join a support group or get involved with others. Remember, it's much easier to get someone to pop a pill, than to get them to run a mile. (Heck, I'm not even depressed and I *still* have a hard time doing it even though I know I should!) If you mean they should combine it with the meds, then I doubt 'big pharma' would disagree.