Conversion - Bnei Menashe from India in limbo

Haaretz reported:

Officials in the Prime Minister's Office yesterday denied reports that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert had decided to allow the remaining 7,000 members of the Bnei Menashe community in India to immigrate to Israel.

Bnei Menashe, a community of some 7,000 from India's northeastern border states, claim descent from Menashe, one of the Ten Lost Tribes.

The officials said Olmert had not made up his mind yet, and that Interior Minister Meir Sheetrit, who must sign the immigration approval, strongly objects to the move.

Some 600 Bnei Menashe immigrants were brought to Israel in the past decade. About half were converted to Judaism before immigrating and the rest after arriving, due to India's objection to religious conversions on its soil.

Israeli officials fear that approving the immigration of the entire Bnei Menashe community would meet objections from India and would encourage other groups to demand the right to come to Israel. They also fear that such a decision would ire those people acting to bring the Falashmura community from Ethiopia, which Israel has recently decided to stop bringing as a group.

Cabinet secretary Oved Yehezkel, who is in charge of the Diaspora, supports bringing the Bnei Menashe community here.

Modesty squad targeted by Jerusalem police

V.I.N reported:

Jerusalem - The campaign to liquidate the “mishmeres hatznius” is broadening. Binyomin Meyerovitch was arrested today under suspicion as one of the heads of the organization. Shmuel Veisfish was arrested at the beginning of the week. Jerusalem police spokesman: “We are weighing whether to extend Meyerovitch’s incarceration.”

“We have resolved to wipe them out,” said an agent in the Detectives Division of the Jerusalem District Police to “B’chadrei Chareidim” in reference to the mishmeres hatznius. The assurance, it seems, has come to fruition.

Today (Wednesday), Chareidi Jerusalem resident Binyomin Meyerovitch was arrested under suspicion of being one of the heads of the organization and responsible for many actions made in the group’s name. Earlier in the week police arrested Shmuel Veisfish, allegedly an organization activist.

The arrest warrant against the two came after the arrest of Elchanan Buzaglo, suspected of acts of violence carried out at the behest of the mishmeres hatznius. Meyerovitch had been staying out of the country in recent weeks, returning to Israel today only to be immediately arrested.

As mentioned, after Buzaglo’s arrest, the news broke on israeli web site B’Chadrei Chareidim that the police opened a dragnet for mishmeres hatznius activists and had issued arrest warrants for a number of suspects.

In her decision to extend the incarceration of Buzaglo, judge Shulamit Dotan wrote: “The crimes being investigated by the police in this episode are apparently organized by not a small number of involved parties,” an expression which points to the extensive evidence gathered in the course of the investigation into the matter.

Chabad - Prophecy based on verified stories?

I have previously posted two stories which a Chabad acquaintance of mine used to demonstrate that the Rebbe was a navi. He personally certified the authenticity of the stories and said he knows the people involved. He told me that every Lubavicher knows such stories and therefore it is obvious to all that the Rebbe is a navi.

Yesterday I received the following email from someone who says that he spoke to the ba'al hamaaseh

The Ba'al Hamaseh was very vague and would not reveal any details. What he told me was that a) the Bobover Rebbe did not ask him, b) the people who did ask him already knew that the girl was in Australia, c) she doesn't live in Israel (she lives in Florida), d) the story according to him happened 14-15 years ago which in itself we know is quite problematic.

Chabad - Rebbe & prophecy/R' Gil Student

Rabbi Gil Student just sent me his article concerning the Lubavticher Rebbe and prophecy which was recently published in Beis Yitzchak - a Y.U. publication. He agreed for me to post the summary of the article. The complete edition of Beis Yitzchak is available for free download

בפסק דין שבו התחלנו דברינו אמרו שהאדמו"ר מליובאוויטש זצ"ל היה נביא ורמז שהוא המשיח. לפיכך חייב כל א' מישראל מדין של אליו תשמעון להאמין שהוא מלך המשיח ולקבלו. והנה נתבאר שאין נבואה בחוץ לארץ וכמאמר הספרי מקרבך ולא בחוץ לארץ ע"כ והאדמו"ר מליובאוויטש זצ"ל אף פעם לא היה בארץ ישראל. ועוד שנביא צריך לתת אות להבא או צריך נביא אחר להעיד עליו ולא מצאנו זה בהאדמו"ר מליובאוויטש זצ"ל. ואף גם זאת צריך כל זה להיות בפני הסנהדרין ואנו אין לנו ב"ד של סמוכים. ועוד שלפי הרמב"ם המצוה של אליו תשמעון שייך אך ורק לנבואה שנאמרה מאת ה' ולא למאמר הנביא מאת עצמו. והיכן ראינו שהאדמו"ר מליובאוויטש זצ"ל אמר נבואה בפירוש ולא דבר מדעת עצמו. וג"כ הלא כבר פסקה הנבואה בתחילת בית השני ואינה חוזרת עד שיבא אליהו. וא"כ מתוך שלדאבונינו עדיין אליהו לא בא א"א להאדמו"ר מליובאוויטש זצ"ל להיות נביא. וכמו שאמר הרשב"א בתשובה ח"א סי' תקמח וז"ל ואף בתלמידי הלל הזקן שהיו קדושי עליון גדולים בחכמה ובחסידות אמרו ראויים שתשרה עליהם שכינה כמשה אלא שאין הדור ראוי לכך. ואפשר דורו של הלל ותלמידיו החסידים לא היה ראוי ודורנו זה ראוי עכ"ל. ואם בדורו של הרשב"א שהם כמלאכים לא כל שכן בדורנו שאנו כבני אדם. אלא לצערינו איו לנו נביא עד שיבא אליהו בבא"ס.

Chabad - Psak that Rebbe is Navi & Moshiach

[translated by Chabbad chasidim]
In his public address of Shabbat Parshas Shoftim, 5751, the Lubavitcher Rebbe asserts that according to Torah law (Maimonides, Yesodei HaTorah, chapter 7), there is a prophet in our generation, and we are required to heed his directives. The Rebbe said:

"It must be publicized to all members of the generation that we have merited that G-d has chosen a person endowed with free choice, who is incomparably higher than the members of this generation, as the judge, counselor and prophet of the generation, to provide instruction and advice pertaining to the service of all Jews.... [His council extends] to the most fundamental prophecy - "Redemption is imminent" and immediately, literally, 'Behold he (Moshiach) comes."'

In light of Maimonides statement in Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah, 7:1, 9:2, 10:1, we the undersigned consider thet according to Torah law the Rebbe King Moshiach is a prophet. Moreover, in his public addresses the Rebbe clearly alludes to the fact that he is a prophet. Indeed, time and again, before the eyes of the Jewish people and the rest of the world, the Rebbe has accurately predicted the future. The Rebbe foresaw with incredible precision the unfolding and outcome of such events as the Six Day War,the Gulf War, and numerous other events. As such, there is an obligation to heed the Rebbe's every instruction, and to believe his every word.

On Shabbat Parsha Vayeira, 5752, the Rebbe said: "At the present time, all obstacles and hindrances have been nullified. As such, Moshiach (not only exists, but in fact), is also already revealed. All we have to do now is welcome Moshiach Tzidkeinu in actual reality."

On Shabbat Parshas Mishpatim, 5752; the Rebbe said the following: "...The ruling of the rabbanim and halachic authorities that the time of the Redemption has arrived - i.e. "A king will arise from the House of David... it is presumed that he is Moshiach," [- the Rebbe added to the halachic ruling :-] "until the state of "definitely Moshiach." In this public address, as well as numerous others, the Rebbe clearly hints at the fact that he is King Moshiach.

In light of these statements, and in light of the Rebbe's encouragement of the proclamation "Yechi Adoneinu", it is incumbent on every single Jew to heed the Rebbe's words and believe that he is indeed King Moshiach, who will be revealed imminently.

Prophecy -Validation/Rambam

Rambam(Yesodei HaTorah Chapter 10):

This chapter discusses which signs a prophet has to perform before we believe him.

1) Any prophet who arises and says that God sent him does not have to perform a sign of the type that Moses, Elijah or Elishah did, which involved supernatural events. Instead, the sign that he has to perform is to predict the future, and we have to believe him, as it is written, "And if you say in your heart, `How shall we know the word which the Lord has not to spoken?'". Therefore, when a man suitable for prophecy comes in the Name of God, without wanting to add to or take away from, any of the commandments, but wants us to serve God properly, we do not ask him to split the sea, or to resurrect the dead, or to perform some other supernatural event, and then believe him, but we tell him to predict the future because he is a prophet, which he does, and we wait to see if what he says happens or not. Even if was wrong in only a small matter, he is a false prophet, but if all of what he said comes true, then he is believed.

2) A prophet has to be checked many times. If all his words are true then he is a prophet, as it says with respect to Samuel, "And all Israel, from Dan to Be'er-Sheva, knew that Samuel was accredited as a prophet of the Lord".

3) Enchanters and diviners also predict the future, so how do they differ from a prophet? Of what enchanters and diviners say some comes true and some does not, as it is written, "Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save you from these things shall come upon you" - it says, "from these things", and not, "from all these things", so it is possible that not all of what they said will come true, and that they were mistaken in everything, as it is written, "...that frustrates the omens of imposters, and makes diviners mad". With respect to a [true] prophet, all of what he says comes true, as it is written, "Know now that nothing shall fall to the earth of the word of the Lord", and it is also written, "The prophet that has a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff of the wheat? says the Lord", that is to say that the words of diviners is like some chaff into which some wheat has been mixed, whereas the words of the Lord are completely true, with no falsehoods at all. This is backed up by Scripture, which says that prognosticators and diviners deceive the nations with their words, but a prophet makes known truthful matters, and we do not have to enchant or divine [to verify his words], for it is written, "There must not be found among you anyone that makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire...for these nations...The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet from amongst you". From here we see that a prophet makes known only earthly matters, such as famine or plenty, war or peace, and similar things. Prophets even answer the needs of the one, such as when Saul had lost an item and went to a prophet to help him find it. A prophet may say what he wants provided that he does not start another religion, add a mitzvah or take one away.

4) If a prophet predicts something bad, such as that so-and-so will die, or that this year will be one of war or famine, et cetera, and his prediction did not come true, then it is not a disproof of his prophecy and we do not label him as a false prophet, for the reason that God is exceedingly merciful and [often] revokes bad decrees, so it is possible that those on whom evil had been decreed had, like the citizens of Nineveh, repented, or had had their decree suspended, as with Hezekiah. But if, however, the prophet decreed good things and his prediction did not come true, then he is definitely a false prophet, for whenever God makes a good decree, even if it is conditional, He does not revoke it. From here we see that a prophet is tested only with respect to good matters. This is what Jeremiah said in his answer to Hananiah the son of Azur, when Jeremiah was prophecising bad things and Hananiah good things: `If what I say does not come true, it is not a sign that I am a false prophet, but if what you say does not come true, it shows that you are a false prophet', for it is written, "Nevertheless, hear now this word...As for the prophet who prophecies for peace, when the word of that prophet shall come to pass, then shall it be known that the Lord has truly sent the prophet".

5) If a prophet says about another prophet that he is [indeed] a prophet, then he is assumed to be a prophet, and the prophet who said it does not have to be cross-examined. Moses vouched for Joshua, and all of Israel believed in him before he performed a sign. Similarly in the following generations: it is forbidden to doubt or debate the prophecy of a prophet who has been found to be right time and time again, or the prophecy of a prophet who has been vouched for by another prophet, and it is [also] forbidden to test him excessively or for ever [for one who tests him is like one who tests God], for it is written, "Do not test the Lord your God as you tested Him in Massah", when we said, "Is the Lord among us, or not?". Once it has become known that he is a prophet, they will believe and know that God is amongst them, and they will nor debate or doubt his words, in accordance with what is written, "...yet they shall know that there has been a prophet amongst them".

Prophecy II - Validate by foretelling the future?

I discussed the issue of how the Lubavitcher Rebbe was a prophet with a Chabadnik last night. He said every Lubavitcher has heard amazing stories of prophetic ability regarding the Rebbe and thus he obviously was a prophet. The following are two stories that he personally knows the people involved and vouches for their authenticity.

1) An 8 year old Romanian Jewish girl was seriously burned. The family took her to the hospital where she was given intensive care. They were told that she needed to be left alone for two weeks and that the family should return then. Two weeks later they were informed that she died. But the way the information was conveyed they realized the nurses were lying and that she probably had been kidnapped. After searching to the best of their ability they lost hope of ever seeing her and emigrated to Israel. She had a brother who grew up to be a serious talmid chachom. At the age of 17 he developed cancer and the doctors gave up on him. In desperation he went to to New York to get the Rebbe's beracha. The Rebbe told him not to work that everything would work out. Then he decided to ask for a beracha to find his sister. The Rebbe gave him an extra dollar and told him that miracles would happen in 5761 - nine years in the future.. He returned to Israel,his condition rapidly improved and he was considered cured. He got married and settled in Bnei Brak. The family grew. One day his wife complained to him that she was overwhelmed taking care of the kids and also cleaning the house. He promised her that he would get help so he went out to the area where the foreign workers hung out and found a young lady who agreed to come and help clean. Things worked out fine, but he had a strange feeling when ever he looked at the worker. He found out she was Romanian and started talking to her in Romanian. She stated that she didn't remember too much about her childhood having been separated from her family at the age of eight. But she did have a picture of her mother. Lo and behold it was his mother - it was his long lost sister - and it was the last week of the year the Rebbe had said miracles would happen. The rabbi who told me the story noted that this was even a harder call since Romanian workers were only common in Bnei Brak for one or two years in recent history.

2) An Austrailan acquaintance of this rabbi had a Bobover chasid friend. The Bobover chasid took the chabadnik to meet the Bobover Rebbe. The Bobover Rebbe told them about a recent tradgedy. A young woman had married several months before. Despite all predictions of a happy marriage it was a disaster. The woman protested that she wanted to get out of the marriage - but she was ignored and told just be patient. At some point she couldn't take it anymore and simply ran away. The Bobover Rebbe asked the chabadnik to please ask the Lubavitcher Rebbe for help in locating the young woman. The Chadnik stopped by 770 on the way back to Australia and told the Rebbe the problem. The Rebbe told him. When you arrive back in Melbourne immediately take the next flight to Brisbane. The Chabadnik did as he was told and found himself on a flight to Brisbane without the foggiest idea of what to do next. There was a woman sitting next to him who seemed very curious about him and his religion. After an extended conversation she said, "What does your religion hold about people who desert their religion?" The Chasid was surprised by the query but answered simply that one can never leave Judaism but there is always hope of persuading the person to return. She then told him, "I am the owner of a chain of clothing stores in Brisbane and I just got a new worker who used to be an Orthodox Jew - perhaps you could speak to her and persuade her to return to her religion." It of course turned out to be the missing wife. He was able to arrange for her to receive a get and she moved to Israel where she now lives with her new family and many kids.

Prophecy -Validate by foretelling future?

Rambam(Letter to Yemen):[translated by Abraham Halkin][The following incident we have verified and know to be true, because it occurred in recent times. About fifty years ago or less, a pious and virtuous man by the name of Moses al-Darri came from Darral to the province of Andalusia to study under Rabbi Joseph ha-Levi ibn Migash, of blessed memory, of whom you have very likely heard. Later he left for Fez, the center of the Maghreb. People flocked to him because of his piety, virtue, and learning. He informed them that the Messiah was about to come, as was divinely revealed to him in a dream. Yet he did not pretend on the basis of a divine communication, as did the former lunatic, that he was the Messiah. He merely affirmed that the Messiah would appear. Many people became his adherents and put their faith in him. My father and master, of blessed memory, endeavored to dissuade and discourage people from following him. However, only a few were influenced by my father, while most, nay, nearly all clung to R. Moses. Finally he predicted even events that would come true no matter what was going to occur. He would say: “I was informed yesterday that this and this would happen,” and it did happen exactly as he predicted. Once he foretold a vehement rain for the coming Friday and that the falling drops would be blood. This was considered a sign of the approaching advent of the Messiah, of which the text says: “[ will set portents in the sky and on earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke” [Joel 3:3]. This episode took place in the month of Marcshevan. A very heavy rain fell that Friday and the fluids that descended were red and viscous as if mixed with clay. This miracle convinced all the people that he was undoubtedly a prophet. In itself it is not inconsistent with the tenets of the Torah, for prophecy, as I have explained, will return to Israel before the messianic advent. When the majority of the people put their trust in him, he predicted that the Messiah would come that very year on Passover eve. He advised the people to sell their property and contract debts to the Muslims with the promise to pay back ten dinars for one, in order to observe the precepts of the Torah in connection with the Passover festival, for they would never see them again, and so they did. When Passover came and nothing transpired, the people were ruined, as most of them had disposed of their property for a trifling sum, and were overwhelmed with debt. When the gentiles in the vicinity and their serfs learned of this hoax they were minded to do away with him, were they to locate him. As this Muslim country no longer offered him protection, he left for Palestine where he died, may his memory be blessed. When he left he made predictions, as I was told by those who saw him, concerning events both great and small in the Maghreb, which were later fulfilled.

Rambam's 8th Principle - All Torah is from G-d

Rambam(Sanhedrin chapter 10:1 8th principle): The Eighth Principle of Faith is that Torah is from Heaven. It is to believe that the entire Torah we have today was given through the agency of Moshe and that it was entirely from G‑d. In other words that the entire Torah came to Moshe in a manner which we can best describe as speech. Even though this process is unknown to us, somehow the Torah was communicated by G‑d to Moshe. Moshe functioned like a scribe who receives dictation and records all the events, narratives and commandments. That is why Moshe was called Mechokek (engraver). Consequently there is absolutely no distinction between the words, “And the sons of Cham were Kush and Mitzrayim” [Bereishis 10:6] or, “The name of his wife was Mehaitavel [Bereishis 36:39] or, “Timna was a concubine” [Bereishis 36:12] and between the First Commandment, “I am the L-rd your G-d” [Shemos 20:2] or the Shema, “Hear Israel the L-rd our G-d the L-rd is One” [Devarim 6:4]. That is because the entire Torah is from G‑d and therefore all of it is G‑d’s perfect Torah – pure, holy and true. Consequently one who says that verses like these or the narratives were written by Moshe alone is considered by our Sages and our Prophets as the worst type of heretic and revisionist. That is because he thinks that there are genuine and spurious parts of the Torah i.e., that these historical descriptions and stories serve no purpose and that they were created by Moshe – and not by G‑d. This is what is referred to in the Mishna (Sanhedrin 90a) as one who says that Torah is not from Heaven – and he therefore has no share in the World to Come. Our Sages [Sanhedrin 99a] explain that it is even heresy to assert that the entire Torah is from G‑d - except for a single verse which was said entirely by Moshe. Such a heretical assertion is an act of despising G‑d’s word [Bamidbar 15:31]. In fact all the words of the Torah contain astounding wisdom for those who understand them. These words are so profound that they will never be completely understood…. This is true not only of the Written Torah but also of the Oral Torah i.e., the explanations of the Written Torah which we have also received from G‑d. Therefore that which we make a Sukkah in a particular manner and perform the mitzvos of lulav, shofar, tzitzis, tefilin and the other mitzvos is the manner which G‑d told Moshe and he in turn faithfully told us. The Torah verse which teaches us this principle is (Shemos 16:28), “And Moshe said: And by this you will know that G‑d sent me to do all these deeds and I didn’t make it up myself.”

Devarim II - Did Moshe compose it?

There are basically two ways of understanding the authorship of Devarim. The first is simply that G-d composed it just as He composed the other four books of the Torah. There is an alternative view that in fact Moshe composed Devarim. Below are examples of the two views.

Devarim composed by G-d

Chinuch(Introduction to Devarim before #414): The Ramban wrote in his introduction to Devarim that the nature of Devarim is well know – it is a restatement of the Torah. In it Moshe reviewed to the generation, that was about to enter Israel, most of the mitzvos that they would need to know to settle the Israel. He commands many mitzvos and threatens them strongly concerning the punishment for not keeping the commandments. Occasionally he adds explanations to some of these mitzvos. However he makes no mention of mitzvos which applied to the Cohanim. Furthermore he doesn’t add to the commandments of the Cohanim since they were highly motivated to keep their mitzvos (Shabbos 20a). Moshe also adds mitzvos in Devarim which have not been mentioned previously at all such as Yibum (levirate marriage), slandering one’s bride, divorce, scheming witnesses and others. There is no doubt that these were not new mitzvos but those which had already been told to Moshe at Sinai or in the Tent of Meeting (Ohel Mo’ed) in the first year. That is because on the Plains of Moav there were no new revelations of mitzvos except for the words of the Covenant as will be explained [Devarim 28:69]. Since there were no new mitzvos revealed by G‑d for the first time here – you don’t find in Devarim the expression “And G‑d spoke to Moshe saying, ‘Command the Jews’ or ‘Speak to the Jews and you say to them this mitzva’. These are the words of the Ramban. This that these mitzvos were not mentioned previously with the other mitzvos is not surprising. That is because our Sages say in many places [Pesachim 6b] the Torah is not presented in chronological order. The reason for this is that the Torah includes all wisdoms aside from the plain meaning of the verses of its sweet issues and the strong foundations of its mitzvos. Perhaps because of the concealed wisdom it had to be arranged in the pattern that we have. Thus all is precisely placed by the Master of Divine Wisdom and that is sufficient justification.

Devarm composed by Moshe

Ohr HaChaim(Devarim 1:1): These are the words that Moshe spoke to the entire nation… By saying “these are the words” it comes to exclude what was written previously in the Torah. In other words Devarim consists entirely of the words which Moshe spoke on his own initiative i.e., the chastisements and instructions to those who transgress G‑d words. Megila (31b) states the curses which are mentioned in Devarim were composed by Moshe. However even the laws which Moshe reviewed and explained, he did on his own initiative without a command from G‑d. Since Moshe composed the Book of Devarim, the Torah was concerned that we might mistakenly think that he might have also independently composed part of the previous four books of the Torah. That is why Devarim starts with “These are the words that Moshe spoke” - to tell you that only the words found in Devarim were Moshe’s own composition but not even a single letter of the Torah that preceded it. Those four books of the Torah were entirely from G‑d exactly as He commanded them without the slightest change – even a single extra letter added or subtracted.

Big Brother in Beit Shemesh II/ The true story

Bartley Kulp's comment to "Big Brother in Beit Shemesh":

"Tombeck charges that it is the modern Orthodox who are escalating the war by holding demonstrations, using political muscle and speaking to the media."

This statement from Rabbi Tombeck is pure unadulterated spin. Holding demonstrations and using political muscle is a time honored chareidi tradition. Especially in Beit Shemesh!

Now hear this! I am going to tell you all a story Years before the zeolots in Beit Shemesh broke into the national media spotlight things were already brewing there.

I do not know the exact year that people started moving into Ramat Beit Shemesh. Nor do I know which communities were promised what or who got there first in significant numbers.

What I do know is that by 2003 there were already two rapidly growing communities there that were competing to inherit the earth.

Just to make a note for background information, that was also a municipal election year. At stake was the question what kind of infrastructure the city was going to further invest in. The Chareidim wanted further housing developement for kollel families and the dati leumi wanted to invest in infrastructure that would facilitate businesses and possibly new factories in order to enhance employment prospects in Beit Shemesh. They were also on a better government anti corruption and efficiency platform. Both parties were fielding candidates for the city council. The chareidim also fielded their own candidate for mayor against the likud incumbent. In the end both sides took a beating to the Likud. Mayor vaknin kept his post and Shas who had a large presence in the city council lost many of their seats. They also subsequently lost their municipal posts. Another issue that was brewing was that all time favorite thing to fight about between secular dati leumi and chareidim, who will get what municipal resources for their schools. The fact that the unexpectedly rapid demographic increase in RBS out stripped the municipals ability to quickly facilitate school space for the various communities just aggravated the situation. In fighting and lawsuits just slowed down the situation fueling more aggravation and fights.

The reason why I am writing about all of this is because it is the backdrop of many of the cultural campaigns that were to follow. However I am not suggesting that there is a sinister plot connection between the culture campaign that has been waged by the chareidim in RBS and the issues that I have mentioned above. However they do not help things and increase an already incendiary atmosphere. Those issues might be part of the cause of that atmosphere.

Already in 2003 there were zealots blocking the main road that passes through RBS Bet and throwing rocks at cars that were driving through on Shobbos. Also during that same year the municipality gave the local Bnei Akiva a property to use in RBS Aleph, on a street called Nachal Micha. At the time this was a mixed street. I believe it still is. Residents of both groups were dissatisfied with their situation. They were stuck paying mortgages for properties in neighborhoods that were not shaping up to how each side originally envisioned. When Bnei Akiva received usage of that property, the local chareidi residents responded. The fear was that there would be teenagers of both sexes hanging out on the street in mixed company. The neighborhood rabbanim responded by circulating a petition around the neighborhood to give to the municipality against Bnei Akiva opening on the street. I do not know whether it was the petition on its own merit or wrangling in the municipality but that Bnei Akiva chapter never managed to open on that street.

In 2005 a demonstration was led by Rav mordechai Goldstein (the mora d'asra of Kehillat Yaakov RBS Alef) at the main shopping center in RBS Alef. This was a protest against the eateries there that they felt were becoming teenage hangouts at night. They wanted that those businesses should close earlier.

In 2006 during a Lag B'Omer bonfire celebration Rav Shlomo Perlststein (mora d'asra of RBS Alef) led a demonstration against this group of celebrators (all of whom were religious) after hearing that men and women were mingling and socializing. I would like to note that most of these people were husbands and wives who were sitting out of the dancing or just resting. There was no coed dancing going on there. He brought many of his close followers and forcefully broke up the celebration. These are just the examples that I am aware of. Then the rest is media history. These are just a few examples that Rav Tombek would lead you to believe did not happen. After all he has stated that it was the Modern who introduced protesting and the usage of political muscle in Ramat Beit Shemesh, hence escalating things. Not the fact that they have been the victims of violent attacks for the past two years. This is what is called an LSD spin.

Utopian Hishtadlus inversely related to belief in G-d?

LazerA's comment to "Post Zionism - Chief Rabbinate really necessary?":

Garnel Ironheart said...

"If there's no satisfactory solution, why tackle the problem?"

Well, while it may not be possible to truly solve a problem, this does not mean that we can't do anything to alleviate the problem. (Thus we give tzedaka even though we know we can't eliminate poverty.)

However, I feel you are onto an important point.

I have long wondered why there is a correlation between political conservatism (antagonistic to big government) and religious conservatism. At the first glance there wouldn't appear to be any connection.

After all, why should belief in God result in opposition to the welfare state? Why should "Pro-Life" be connected to opposition to gun control? Obviously, their are relgious people on the politically liberal side as well, but we do see a broad correlation of these views in the population. (As Obama put it, "religion and guns.") Why are they connected?

I think part of the reason is the attitude towards the issue we are talking about: accepting that some problems are unsolvable.

The Western religions teach that, ultimately, God controls the world and that the primary reason for the world's troubles is God's displeasure with human sinful behavior. It follows, therefore, that the primary means of solving these problesm is spiritual.

In the meantime, however, we must deal with an imperfect world. This imperfect world is called, in Jewish terms, galus. (Christians similarly believe that humanity is in a "fallen" state. The theology is, of course, very different, but in this regard the implications are similar.) We therefore have to accept that there simply is no natural solution to many of the worlds problems (poverty, war, crime, etc.). We, of course, do the best we can, in our small human way, to alleviate the problem, but we recognize that we cannot eliminate the problem.

Secularists (and those who absorbed its world view) generally will not accept this view. Although logically it is possible to be a secularist and also accept that there are no true solutions to the world's problems, emotionally this is very difficult. Most secularists believe, emphatically, that all of the world's problems can be solved ("If only people would listen to our wisdom!").

Thus, LBJ's "War on Poverty" and the modern welfare state, the United Nations (to eliminate war), assorted liberal policies to eliminate racism (affirmative action), socialize medicine, etc. WHile most of these goals are laudable, they are, in essence, attempts to solve the unsolvable. As a result these grand plans tend to just create new problems while exacerbating the old ones.

Fundamentally, what has happened, in my opinion, is a secular substitution for the Messianic age. Religious believers tend to believe that the Messianic age can only be brought about through Divine action. Secularists, who don't believe in the Divine, have put themselves in the Messianic role. Interestingly, the U.N. has been, almost explicitly, described in Messianic terms. Thus the famous "Swords into Plowshares" statue at the U.N. based on a messianic prophecy from Yeshaya HaNavi. (Even more interesting, the statue was donated by the atheist Soviet Union!)

Religious groups that have absorbed the secularist perspective (which includes various Christian factions, such as the Methodist church that mentored Hillary Clinton, and many Jewish groups, such as Reform Judaism) and have completely adopted their agenda as their spiritual purpose.

(Incidentally, while I don't have enough background on Islam to be certain, it seems to me that a similar process has led to the modern "radical Islamists." Today's radical Islam is a modern development, which was heavily influenced by secular Arab nationalism. In radical Islam we also observe the attempt to bring about a Messianic age through direct human action.)

Well, I guess I've rambled for long enough. Sorry!

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Post Zionism II - Jews & Moslems

Garnel Ironheart said...

> Please elaborate on the Torah's moral justification for persecuting monotheistic inhabitants of the Land of Israel.

You mean: Persecuting monotheistic inhabitants who daily shout out loud for the destruction of Israel and use whatever means they can to bring it about. I don't think you'll find a functioning state on this planet that wouldn't "persecute" such a group.

> This included/includes expelling civilians from their homes,

Well at least you're sympathetic to the exiles from 'Aza.

> seizing their land

That they in turn originally seized from us. Yes, please continue.

> murdering 10,000 civilians

Only in your dreams. You've been reading too much Al-Jazeera.

> raping women and girls in order to incite enough terror that the majority of the native population would flee (Deir Yassin)

You probably also believe that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an authentic historical document. Well, as PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.

> This is also very well documented from IDF achives by Meron Benvenisti former mayor of Jerusalem

Who was all for Israel and Yerushalayim until he lost his chance to become mayor of the Holy City and then, in what seems to be de rigeur for failed Israeli politicians, became a bitter enemy of the state willing to spread any and all lies about it. Sour grapes indeed.

> Please explain your source for the Torah justification for taking the Land of Israel by force in light of the Three Oaths.

The Torah tells us to stay away from false matters. By rejecting all the... oh he'll just censor the word... you've spewed, I'm doing just that!