Rav Sternbuch - Change - Yes, you can

R' Tropper - is he good for the Jews?

While we have had some discussions about the validity of R' Tropper's approach, we have not really focused on the consequences.

R' Tropper is using geirus as a tool in kiruv. When he finds that a baal teshuva is stuck because he is married to a non-Jew he switches hats and works to have the non-Jew become a Jew. Thus he reasons it is a win win situation. The Jew becomes fully observant and his wife becomes Jewish. Their children now will add to the Jewish population instead of destroying it. The only down side, he reasons, is that the age old practice of not proselytizing needs to be bent a bit. Any problems with this he reasons are made up for by requiring the convert to adopt an Orthodox life style. Seem like a nice neat package. Why should anyone be upset with it.

Let us list the reasons.

1) He has removed the age old stigma to intermarriage. There is absolutely no consequences of intermarriage. If you ever want to legitimate it he is standing there with open arms. Of course since not all Jews want to be Orthodox - therefore he contributes to the intermarriage rate by allowing everyone to chose a non-Jewish partner without the slightest guilt or consequence. Consequences unknown. But we can reasonably assume that more Jews will intermarry with R' Tropper looking the other way - then will return to Judaism with a converted bride.

2) Let's assume that not everyone that R' Tropper converts will stay frum. Because he has such high standards and is makpid on kabbalos mitzvos - all of his converts will definitely become Jews. However the statistics from the past tell us that at least half will back slide. They will then become irreligious Jews. If he wasn't so meticulous then when the convert goes back they were never Jewish in the first place. If he wasn't so meticulous then the back sliding converts will be genuine non-Jews.

3) The consequences of having converts who are genuine Jews and were married in a genuine marriage - but who give up observance is very simple - mamzerim. Rav Moshe solved the mamzerus problem from the Reform and Conservative by saying their marriages were non valid. Similarly their converts are not valid. Not so R'Tropper's converts. However everyone of R' Tropper's converts is a potential producer of mamzerim.

4) An additional consequences in back sliding will be on the communities and families.

This is similar to the statement about Sedom. They had horrible laws - which weren't enforced until an honest judge Lot came along. It is specifically because he is makpid on keeping the laws that he is causing problems.

In sum. For R' Tropper to come along and introduce a change in the dynamic of the Jewish community he needs to show that what he is doing is beneficial. It is not enough to say that when he converts people they were frum. Rav Chaim Ozer had such a view and then 20 years later radically altered it to say that a decent beis din should not do conversions. Similarly Rav Moshe Feinstein knew all the hetirim but personally had nothing to do with geirus. What are the two, five and ten years statistics on Rabbi Troppers' converts. What is their impact on marriage and children?

Update on EJF and Aguiar - RaP

THE REAL SCANDAL: Revenge against Gumar Aguiar and covering their backs for having sanctioned the taking of tens of millions of dollars from Guma Aguiar for years is why the ten rabbis signed this letter when they realized that Guma had dumped them/EJF to get a conversion for his wife from arch-rival Rabbi Bomzer.

Ever since poster Roni/Tropper has joined the discussions on this blog with his bloodthirsty and vitriolic attacks against anyone who dares to question Tropper/EJF he has unrelentingly made Rabbi Bomzer the source of all evil because he has performed lenient conversions.

Regardless if one agrees with either the Rabbi Tropper's or Rabbi Bomzer's prescription for doing conversions, from the outset this letter of censure against Rabbi Bomzer was presented as a fait accompli without either Rabbi Bomzer being asked to give his side of the story or any other context except that which poster Roni/Tropper and the words in the letter signed by the ten rabbis, that includes Rabbi Tropper's signature on it, to the left. [remainder of post as comment on this post here ]

Abuse - Parents didn't report uncle

Nana reports: YNET

אתמול האריך בית משפט השלום בירושלים את מעצרו של הדוד, תושב מאה שערים, החשוד כי ביצע מעשים מגונים ומעשי סדום באחייניו. היום הוארך גם מעצרם של ההורים, החשודים כי לא דיווחו על ההתעללות שנמשכה שש שנים. האב סיפר בחקירתו: "התייעצתי עם רב, והוא אמר לי לא להסגיר את אחי

Save the Jews of Yemen

[DT: I would like to see some official haskomas regarding this organization]

Jersey Girl wrote:

There has been a continuous Jewish community in Yemen since the times of the First Temple, more than 2500 years ago, but today the survival of that community is in grave danger. Last December, Rabbi Masha Al-Nahiri, 30, was brutally murdered shot to death, leaving his wife and nine children. A few days later, the home of Masha Yahia was firebombed as well as having a grenade thrown at it. They were home at the time he and his wife and children had to flee for refuge, suddenly homeless. I was personally in his home for a Shabbat as he lives between the two Jewish communities in a remote area. President Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen, who has always treated the Jews as respected Yemenite citizens, announced that he could no longer guarantee the protection of the Jewish community.

The Yemen Times reported that President Saleh had given his directive to protect the Jews and move them to safe places in the district of Sana’a, but those directives have evaporated and there is no longer a promise of government protection. This is due to the tribal nature of a land that has stood still in time! [...]

The people there are now in fear for their lives Al-Anisi added that Yemeni Jews are afraid of the threats they receive from extremists who are protected by sheiks. "A well-known man protected by Kahlan bin Mujahed Abu Shawareb intimidates Jews in Amran,” he said. “He threatens them and he hasn’t been arrested so far despite the President's directives to arrest all those who harm Yemeni Jews. There is something going on in secret which we don’t understand in this respect!"

At this time we are begging for your help we need money desperately to resettle everyone anywhere that they will desire to go. Please make your tax deductible charitable donations out to the Yemenite Jewish Federation of America. The money is needed for shelter, food, clothing, and medical care. Anyone who desires more information on how to help may contact Ruven Schwartz at walter.schwartz@ccsicandy.com.

The checks can be personally given to Rabbi Sabri at K4 Pizza in Far Rockaway opposite kosher world. Rabbi Sabri he is the son of the Rabbi still in Yemen!

Please mail checks as well to:
Bet Midrash Shalom Teman
2915 Bayswater Ave
Far Rockaway, New York 11691

They can also be me mailed
Ruven Schwartz
1135 Dickens Street
Far Rockaway N.Y. 11691

Guma Aguiar - $500,000 to March of Living

Cloud Computing Journal

JERUSALEM, February 3 /PRNewswire/ -- The International March of the Living today announced one of the largest private donations in the organization's 21-year history, a $500,000 gift from Guma and Jamie Aguiar. The 2009 March of the Living at Auschwitz, the largest of Nazi Germany's concentration camps, will be held on April 21st, marking the 70th year since the Third Reich launched the Second World War.

Only one week earlier, Mr. Aguiar stirred international headlines through an historic $8 million donation to the aliyah (immigration to Israel) organization, Nefesh B'Nefesh, instantly establishing him as one of the Jewish World's leading philanthropists. [...[

Aguiar, founder of Leor Energy in 2003, was lauded worldwide for his stunning success in identifying one of the largest North American natural gas deposits discovered in decades. "Mr. Aguiar has a prophetic sense of vision and purpose, demonstrated precisely at a time when philanthropy is facing serious challenges," said Dr. David Machlis, Vice Chair of the International MO

Lashon harah?

Reuven sent you a message.

"Hello, as a Rav and a mechaber of seforim, I don't understand how you can run a "blog" that becomes a forum for all types of lashon hara?"