Tuesday, August 8, 2023

Does a victim have to forgive abuser if he asks three times?

UPDATE: I was recently asked regarding the well known halacha that if someone who has hurt another in various ways -  asks the victim three times to forgive and and the victim refuses - then the sinner is automatically forgiven and the victim becomes the sinner for bearing a grudge and holding on to hatred. It is claimed that this applies also to sexual abuse and furthermore that automatic forgiveness after 3 requests happens even if the abuser is not sincere in his apology! The simple answer is that according to most poskim it isn't so. Let me go through the sources.
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 Shulchan Aruch (O.C. 606:1) based on the Rambam states: "Sins between men are not atoned by Yom Kippur but require that the victim be placated. This is true even if the sin was just verbal abuse.  If the victim is not placated by the first apology then the sinner should return two and even three times. Each time he should bring 3 men with him. If the victim is not placated after the 3 apology then the sinner is not required apology to him again but should go before 10 men and ask for forgiveness. However if the victim of his abuse is his teacher then it is necessary to continue going to him many times until he is placated. Rema: The victim should not be cruel and refuse to forgive unless he refuses because he thinks it is beneficial to the one asking forgiveness [or to himself - Mishna Berura]. However if the sinner slandered him then it is not necessary to forgive him [and he is not considered cruel - Taz].

However we find elsewhere in the Shulchan Aruch regarding physically hurting another that there is no mention of apology - but that the judges force the assailant to placate the victim and that includes significant monetary payments. No mention is made of automatic forgiveness after asking three times but rather there is a requirement to pay money and the assailant is placed in cherem until it is paid - and this is not dependent on whether the apology is accepted..  

Shulchan Aruch (C.M. 1:2): In the case of a man who hit another person, the judges lack the true semicha of Israel and therefore can not collect payment for nezek, tzar, pgam, boshes and kofer. However they can collect sheves and ripoi. Rema: And some say that even sheves and ripoi can not be collected anymore (Tur citing the Rosh). However I have not seen anybody observering this restriction. The standard procedure is that the judges force the assailant to placate the victim and the exact punishments according to that which seems appropriate to them.

Shulchan Aruch (C.M. 1:5): Even though that judges without the true semicha can not collect fines nevertheless they place the assailant in cherem until he placates the victim. As soon as he gives the victim an amount which appropriate then he is released from cherem  (and this is true whether or not the victim has been placated). Alternatively if the victim himself forcibly takes that amount of money that is appropriate for him - the judges don't take it away from him. [...]

Thus at least according to the Rema - physical assault does not have to be forgiven by the victim but the assailant is forced to pay that which the judges think is appropriate. Similarly slander does not have to be forgiven. That is because slander is difficult to undo since not everyone who heard the slander heard the apology. Finally, if the victim thinks it is beneficial either to himself or the assailant [Mishna Berura] not to forgive - he has the right not to forgive.

Furthermore the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch seem to go against the Yoma (23a) as pointed about by the Minchas Chinuch (241:1): Do not take revenge - Look at the Rambam (Hilchos De’os 7:7). However in Yoma (23a) it explains that this prohibition only applies in monetary matters but not matters involving bodily pain there is no prohibition of not taking revenge or not being spiteful. In the case of bodily pain it is only an act of piety not to hold a grudge. But the Rambam and also the Chinuch omit mentioning of this distinction and in fact it appears that they hold that one transgresses the prohibitions in all cases and this is a contraction to the gemora. Also look at the Rambam (Hilchos Talmid Torah 7:13) where he states that a talmid chachom that has been publicly embarrassed should take revenge and hold a grudge. See also the Kesef Mishna and the Lechem Mishna. Nevertheless no one commits a sin for taking revenge for personal suffering. I found in the Semag (11-12) who states that for personal suffering one does not transgress the prohibition of revenge and that this is learned from Yoma (23a).
[Updated section ]
It is apparently also the view of the Mishna Berura (156:4) that the prohibition of revenge and bearing a grudge applies only to monetary issues

Therefore the question remains why the Rambam and the Chinuch apparently rule contrary to the gemora.
Rabbi Dovid Castle states in his excellent source book (To live Among Friends 28.42 page 913): "Most Poskim maintain that the sins of taking revenge and of bearing a grudge apply only to offenses related to monetary issues, such as refusal to lend something, but not to physical pain which includes degradation, lashon hara and embarrassment. For such matters bearing a grudge and taking revenge are permitted even if the offenses were not committed in your presence. For these matters it is only a measure of extreme piety not to bear a grudge or take revenge, but not an obligation. "
 More relevant to the question of how the Rambam and Chinuch can ignore Yoma (23a) Rabbi Castle  notes (28.47 page 926) [that even though the Chinuch prohibits revenge and grudges even for physical offenses the Chinuch (#338) also states that the Torah does not expect one to remain like a stone]. "Some say that everyone forbids taking revenge even for physical pain and embarrassment, but everyone permits bearing a grudge in such cases [of physical assault] because it is too much to demand from a person not to bear a grudge in such situations...." [He has much additional discussion in his chapter 28 on "Returning Hatred, Gruge, Revenge" pages 877-1043]

Thus it is possible to understand that everyone - including the Rambam and the Chinuch - do not require forgiveness for non monetary abuse when it is too difficult. However that is only while the pain or embarrassment is still being experienced.  However when the pain subsides and the victim is able to forgive - then it is possible that he will accept a sincere apology in order not to be cruel. Obviously if the apology is not sincere there is no need to consider it. With sexual abuse that time might never happen.

In sum: The requirement to forgive after three sincere requests therefore only apply to monetary issues where the victim doesn't experience serious emotional upset and trauma. In the case of non-monetary issues in addition there is the requirement for compensation which is required whether or not the victim forgives.

Trump lawyer’s claim that indictment attacks First Amendment rights is dubious, experts say

 https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/aug/07/trump-lawyer-claim-indictment-attacks-first/

"Trump has First Amendment rights, but that does not mean that what he says and does to further a scheme to defraud is legal," said Joan Meyer, a partner at the law firm Thompson Hine LLP and a former federal prosecutor. "If your statements are part of an agreement to commit an unlawful act with your co-conspirators, the admission of these statements is fair game in a prosecution and can be used as evidence against you."

Monday, August 7, 2023

Trump responds to Pelosi's 'scared puppy' jab with rant on husband's 'weird story': 'Sick & demented

 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-responds-pelosis-scared-puppy-jab-rant-husbands-weird-story-sick-demented

I saw a scared puppy," Pelosi said on MSNBC's "Andrea Mitchell Reports."

"I didn’t see any bravado or confidence or anything like that," she added. "He knows the truth that he lost the election, and now he’s got to face the music."

Trump fired back, writing that the "millions" of people watching him on television enter the courtroom "didn’t see that."

"I wasn’t ‘scared,’" he said. "Nevertheless, how mean a thing to say! She is a Wicked Witch whose husbands journey from hell starts and finishes with her. She is a sick & demented psycho who will someday live in HELL!"

Trump Flips Out In Hellishly Bizarre New Social Media Meltdown: 'I Wasn't Scared'

 https://news.yahoo.com/trump-flips-hellishly-bizarre-social-044436787.html

When the U.S. women were eliminated from the World Cup later on Sunday, the former president ― like many others on the right ― was weirdly thrilled.

He called the loss “fully emblematic of what is happening to the our once great Nation under Crooked Joe Biden” and accused the players of being “openly hostile” to the country.

“WOKE EQUALS FAILURE,” he wrote, then took a shot at star player Megan Rapinoe. “Nice shot Megan, the USA is going to Hell!!!”

Best postings

 I am collecting for publication the best and most influential postings that have appeared in this blog. Please indicate those that made an impression on you.

Trump is legally immune and didn’t violate U.S. Constitution, says his defense lawyer

 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/us-elections-government/ny-trump-legally-immune-lawyers-says-20230806-ek3ncaci6vdztijhhilptjxxre-story.html

“A technical violation of the Constitution is a violation of the Constitution,” he said. “Our Constitution is designed to stop people from trying to overthrow elections and trying to overthrow the government.

“There are people who are in jail for several years for counterfeiting one vote,” Raskin said. “He tried to steal the entire election.”

Even if Trump Technically Violated the Constitution, He’s No Criminal: Attorney

https://www.thedailybeast.com/even-if-donald-trump-technically-violated-the-constitution-hes-not-a-criminal-attorney-says?ref=home 

Even if former President Donald Trump committed a “technical violation of the constitution” by seeking to overturn the 2020 election, that doesn’t make him a criminal, his attorney argued Sunday on NBC’s Meet the Press. The comments came following a question by host Chuck Todd about Mike Pence’s repeated assertions that Trump asked him to violate the constitution by moving to stop the counting of valid electoral college votes on Jan. 6, 2021, prompting attorney John Lauro to assert that it is “just plain wrong” to suggest that makes him a criminal. When asked in a follow-up email whether he believes that Trump did violate the constitution with his request, Lauro told NBC that he “never said that President Trump committed a technical violation.” Rep Jamie Raskin (D-MD), a key member of the Jan. 6 committee and an outspoken critic of Trump, later said on the network that the defense put forward by Lauro was “deranged.”

CNN Anchor Laughs Off Trump Lawyer's ‘Peaceful Transfer of Power’ Claim

 https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-anchor-dana-bash-laughs-off-trump-lawyers-peaceful-transfer-of-power-claim?ref=home

Lauro also repeatedly defended Trump’s fake elector scheme, stating that ultimately “none of these electors were counted” while describing it as merely a form of “political protest,” prompting Bash to note that “they weren’t counted because Mike Pence rejected this scheme.” After Lauro insisted this was just “how the political process works,” the CNN anchor exclaimed, “No, it doesn’t!”


Sunday, August 6, 2023

‘Everything you’ve been told is a lie!’ Inside the wellness-to-fascism pipeline

 https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/02/everything-youve-been-told-is-a-lie-inside-the-wellness-to-facism-pipeline

Peter Knight, professor of American studies at the University of Manchester, who has studied conspiracy theories and their history, notes that the link between alternative therapies and conspiracy is at least a century old, and has been much ignored. “New age and conspiracy theories both see themselves as counter-knowledges that challenge what they see as received wisdom,” he says. “Conspiracy theories provide the missing link, turbo-charging an existing account of what’s happening by claiming that it is not just the result of chance or the unintended consequences of policy choices, but the result of a deliberate, secret plan, whether by big pharma, corrupt scientists, the military-industrial complex or big tech.”

DeSantis’ ‘anti-woke’ bills are costing Florida millions of dollars in business

 https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/06/economy/florida-convention-business-cancellations/index.html

In recent weeks, at least a dozen organizations have announced plans to either cancel or relocate their upcoming conferences scheduled to take place in Florida, making a statement by having their thousands of attendees and millions of dollars flow into other states deemed safer and more welcoming.

While DeSantis’ office brushes this off as a “media-driven stunt,” tourism officials and community organizations in the state say what’s happening now may be just the beginning.

“Unlike leisure business, which is a very short-term booking window [in weeks or months], conference business is long term,” said Stacy Ritter, president and chief executive officer of the Visit Lauderdale tourism marketing agency in Broward County, Florida. “We’re booking ’26 to ‘30 now, so any impact that this might have is not going to be seen for years to come.”

More Baby Boomers are living alone. One reason why: ‘gray divorce’

 https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/05/health/boomers-divorce-living-alone-wellness-cec/index.html

Brown and I-Fen Lin found that from 1990 to 2010, the divorce rate for people over 50 in the United States had doubled. They dubbed it “the gray divorce revolution.”

Donald Trump: threatening social media post flagged by prosecutors in court filing

 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/05/donald-trump-threatening-social-media-post-flagged-by-prosecutors-in-court-filing

Prosecutors pointed specifically to a post on Trump’s Truth Social platform from earlier Friday in which Trump wrote, in all capital letters, “If you go after me, I’m coming after you!”

Cheated out of learning the latest :"dirt" on the Biden crime family because of a mere heart attack

https://mishpacha.com/the-end-of-youth/ 

 I’m going to skip my planned column on Hunter Biden, in favor of writing about my last five days, including two trips to the Shaare Zedek emergency room and the insertion of a stent into one of two blocked coronary arteries on Tishah B’Av.

Ron DeSantis Sparks MAGA Fury After Dismissing Key Donald Trump Claim

 https://www.newsweek.com/ron-desantis-sparks-maga-fury-after-dismissing-key-donald-trump-claim-1817722

Prominent Donald Trump supporters have responded with fury after Ron DeSantis said "theories" about the 2020 presidential election "did not prove to be true," in what was widely seen as a rejection of the former president's claims of electoral fraud.