Friend of EJF unofficially responds. Criticizes "supermarket tabloid style" comments on blog

amicusEJF wrote:


Dear R' Eidensohn, shlita,

If anyone from EJF gives you an orange you can be sure that it will be a healthful fruit, free of any chashash or orlah, tevel or sheviis, and given to you in the respectful spirit of hameivi doron l'talmid chacham.

That said, I disagree with your decision to allow the carmella corleone post. I was also very disappointed with your decision to post that negative piece on Dr. Kaplan. I was very turned off from that and you may have noticed that I have barely commented since then. I believe that once you allow such supermarket tabloid style discussion, you have lowered the level of the blog to where many Jewish blogs are: in the gutter.

You say: Why does EJF rely on anonymous spokesmen? ... In other words are these individuals actual spokesmen who are in fact representing Rabbi Tropper - but he doesn't want their identity revealed?

Speaking for myself, while I am a friend of EJF, and a volunteer who tries to help out with some things, R' Tropper has not sent me as a spokesman. Quite the opposite, he has questioned the usefulness of commenting on blogs and trying to correct errors and misimpressions on a blog. Since I have followed your [R' Eidensohn's] work over some years [Yad Moshe, Yad Yisroel, Daas Torah, many Avodah forum postings], I have a great respect for you. I thought that, even though this is a blog, it is different: It is R' Eidensohn's blog. It may be a house in a slummy neighborhood, but it is a talmid chacham's house.

But then I saw that long innuendo-filled post against Dr. Kaplan, and I said to myself: Maybe, R' Tropper was right. And as I type these words in the "Leave your comment" box just to the left of carmella corleone's miasmic jeers, I don't know if I will comment here too much longer. And that is a shame, because I think there is value in answering sincere questions about EJF and in learning from valid criticisms.

So let's return, in the meantime, to your post. You write: Or are they self-appointed representatives because Rabbi Tropper doesn't feel the need to explain the true nature of his operations... why doesn't Rabbi Tropper want to clarify and justify what he is doing?

Well, clarify and justify to whom? To this blog? As explained above, he questions the utility of that, and with carmella on my screen, I can't say he's wrong.

To the Bedatz? There I think you have a good point. If he were seeking the Bedatz's haskomah, then it would be incumbent upon him to clarify and justify his operations to their satisfaction. [I have no idea if that was ever attempted, but judging from what you have written, I would assume not.] On the other hand, if the Bedatz wants to publish an opinion on the EJF, I would suggest that, as part of their derishah and chakira, they or their people would call up talmidei chachamim who are heavily involved with EJF's operations, such as Rav Reuven Feinstein or Rav Shmiel Eliezer Stern of Rav Wosner's Beis Din, to understand what the clarifications and justifications are. This may have happened, I don't know. They may have not been satisfied with these and decided to oppose EJF. That is their prerogative.

To clarify and justify to the public at large? Well, that's exactly what I am trying to do here unofficially. Officially, they have printed a two-page spread in Hamodia and reprinted it in the Jewish Press. Also, they are working on redoing their website. My hope is that, one day, you should be able to find the clarifications and justifications you seek over there. But that two page spread was important. I suggest that you make a pdf file of it and make it available here.

You write about: to pursue or activiely persuade someone to convert and spending millions of dollars to persuade the nonJewish spouse to convert.

This is old ground. I have already written that these are moot points since EJF is not the first contact for gerus candidates. EJF deals only with referrals. Call them up and pretend to be a goy wishing to convert. They will send you to a local Rav. It is the local Rav or kiruv worker who must deal with the issues of rebuffing, admitting or pursuing a candidate for gerus. There is a lot to be said on that, but it's all moot as far as EJF's own programs.

On that point, I must add that although you write I was also given the astonishing response of "Why is it prohibited", you wrote above that you agreed that there was no prohibition!

Here it is:
In a recent intensive exchange of e-mails, I asked Rav Tropper the halachic rulings of Rav Moshe Feinstein he claims as the basis for EJF’s activities. His response was, “Why do you think it is prohibited?” This is an astounding justification for a radical break with the past. While in fact it is not explicitly prohibited – this radical innovation of spending millions of dollars to convince non‑Jews to convert presents serious dangers to the Jewish people. It requires acceptance or rejection through scholarly discussion in peer-reviewed responsa - as innovations have been justified in the past.

Daniel Eidensohn Ph.D.

Now, I agree with your point that those who reach out to gentiles in intermarriages spouses [not EJF, not EJF] need to explain what seems to be a radical innovation. But you yourself admit that they are not doing away with an explicit prohibition. That is a valid subject for discussion. Is an intermarried gentile better than a stam goy in this respect, or perhaps worse, as I suspect the Bedatz holds. Please call Rav Reuven Feinstein to discuss this [and other matters] with him. Please don't answer that you demand a written teshuvah and until he sends one out, you will not go to him. Please don't let it be a situation of "Hatziree ein biGilad, im rofei ein sham."

Now, you have an excellent point in that quote in Hebrew Mishpocha. Could you please provide the Hebrew original before I pursue that further?

I have covered several points here, directly or indirectly, and I hope that helps you and others understand EJF's stance, at least to the degree that I understand it.

Kol tuv,

amicusEJF

Descendants of Marranos (Anousim) - should they be encouraged to convert? II

Recipients and Publicity wrote:


That such an article appears on the Aish HaTorah website should be a cause for alarm in the Charedi world.

There should be a protest by the BADATZ against this kind of backtracking into Jewish history to seek "converts" and to put Aish HaTorah and organizations devoted to seeking "Jews lost and intermingled among the gentiles" on notice, that organizational efforts like this are essentially anti-Halachic because it is one thing for an individual to make their path to Yiddishkeit following the way Divine Hashgocha may have guided them, but that it is quite a different matter when organizations are set up, as is EJF, to facilitate the mass registration, collection, education, and help to convert goyim to Yiddishskeit that is anti-Halachic.

There is an importnat factor that must be born in mind. That in changes in Western culture in the last 25 years, there has also come a greater openess to alternate and outside-the-system beliefs and ways of life.

So just as many liberal-minded people have become open to oriental religions like Buddhism and even to Islam, there is a significal stream of people who have developed an admiration for Jews and a desire to not just know more about Judaism but to become "Jewish" in some way.

There are therefore many "Jews by choice" (see things like http://jewsbychoice.org/ and http://jbuff.com/c060400.htm and http://joi.org/blog/?p=852 and http://www.converttojudaism.org/ to see how this concept is used and plays it outself out) who are usually gentiles who may not even have an urge for any Jewish religious conversions but they have decided that by their own criteria they are "Jews" -- after all in a society that places a premium on autnomous choice this is a valid move.

And then of course, there are the more open oned, neither-here-nor-there, such as the many gentiles welcomed by the Kabbalah Centre, the best-known being the singer Madonna who has taken on a Hebrew name of "Esther" has her own personal rabbi, she spends hours per day studying with him, has given tens of millions to the Kabbalah Centre of London and has brought many celebrities, some born Jews and many not on board this group.

Rav Ovadiah Yosef has long openly opposed the Kabbalah Center people, and no doubt it has gone a long way to clarify to the Sephardic masses especially in Israel who may care about Halachah to stay awy from the Kabbalah Center people and their ilk.

There are many other factors and examples that can be cited, but the bottom line is that now there are all sorts of groups and individulas who are crawling out of the wood-work and claiming a historical and or religious link with the Jewish people and Judaism, like the Anusim, (see some discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anusim and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Anusim and http://www.judaismo-iberico.org/responsa/resp.htm and http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~nachum/sch/sch/anusim.html and many, many more)

The implications of such movements for Klal Yisroel as we know it to be, and certainly that portion that can be called Orthodox and Charedi and Chasidic Jewry, is that if the various trends and movements in the world that seek not just to "gather up" a few lost souls/sparks here and there but want to create mass movements backed up organizations and perhaps even by the secular Israeli government, in the process creating inevitbale de facto and de jure alliances with the non-Halachic Reform and Conservative movements, which themselves have been declared "NOT JUDAISM", that it will create more not less confusion, and more and not less of a need for Halachic clarifications by notable Batie Din and Rabbinical groups speaking authoritatively.

The example of the BADATZ declartion against EJF is a key and historic move in that direction just as the historic 1997 declaration stating that Reform and Conservative are not Judaism by the Agudas Harabonim (Union of Orthodox Rabbis, the oldest Orthodox rabbinical organization in America that was also headed by Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l, not be confused with the OU) of America published in The Jewish Press of Friday, April 4th, 1997.

That "Kol Koreh" caused an uproar but by now has been conveniently forgotten, or more accurately tucked away, but its message was refreshing for its clarity.

This is what they said about Reform and Conservative, so that lesser forms of "Judaism":
______

"A HISTORIC DECLARATION
Issued March 1997"

The Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the United States and Canada (Agudath Harabonim) hereby declares: Reform and Conservative are not Judaism at all. Their adherents are Jews, according to the Jewish Law, but their religion is not Judaism. The Union of Orthodox Rabbis of The United States and Canada is the oldest Orthodox Rabbinic Organization in North America. Its leaders and members have been and are renowned and authoritative Torah scholars. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, zt”l, the foremost authority on Jewish law in our time, was its president until his passing (1895 – 1986).

1) The Agudath Harabonim has always been on guard against any attempt to alter, misrepresent or distort the Halacha (Jewish Law) as transmitted in the written an oral law, given by G-d through Moses on Sinai. It has therefore, rejected recognition of Reform and Conservative movements as Judaism, or their clergy as Rabbis. It has publicly rebuffed the claim of “three wings of Judaism.” There is only one Judaism: Torah Judaism. The Reform and Conservative are not Judaism at all, but another religion.

2) The present declaration is not based upon a new decision in Jewish Law. It is as old as Sinai. It is only giving new emphasis and vehemence, sounding an alarm and warning signal, because of the new dangers wrought by the conservative and reform movements. Their condoning of interfaith marriages, null and void conversions and homosexuality are repugnant not only to Torah Judaism, but also to common morality. Yet, they do this in the name of “Judaism.”

This declaration is thus a clarion call to all, that despite their brazen usurpation of the titles “Judaism,” “Jewish Heritage,” “Jewish Tradition,” “Jewish Continuity,” Reform and Conservative are not Judaism at all. They are outside of Torah and Outside of Judaism

3) Having caused havoc in the United States, leading generations of Jews toward assimilation and intermarriage, they now attempt to export their alien ideology to Israel. By promoting pluralism in Judaism, they seek to be recognized as rabbis entitled (contrary to existing law in Israel) to carry out Rabbinical functions, such as marriage, divorce, and conversion, contrary to Torah Law.

4) In addition to the above, from a Torah perspective, it is imperative to support Israel’s government in their refusal to change the status quo regarding the exclusive Orthodox Rabbinic authority. Even non-orthodox political leaders recognize that unless Jewish religious family law remains under the authority of the sole Rabbinate, the Jewish nation would be hopelessly divided.

5) Quotations from Torah luminaries of our time on the status of the Reform and Conservative movements and their clergy:

a) Chief Rabbi Herzog of Israel, zt”l: “Reform is not Judaism at all” – Dvar Halacha – Jerusalem 1956

b) The Lubavitcher Rebbe, zt”l: The doctrines and ideologies of the Reform and Conservative movements, can only be classed in the category of heretical movements which have plagued our people at one time or another, only to disappear eventually, having no basis in our everlasting Torah, the Torah of truth, the living Torah, Toras Emes, Toras Chaim.

c) Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, zt”l: The Karaites of the Geonic period were closer to Judaism than are the Reform of our time.

6) We appeal to our fellow Jew, members of the Reform and Conservative movements: Having been falsely led to believe by heretical leaders that Reform and Conservative are legitimate branches or denominations of Judaism, we urge you to be guided by this declaration, and withdraw from your affiliation with Reform and Conservative temples and their clergy. Do not hesitate to attend an Orthodox synagogue due to your inadequate observance of Judaism. On the contrary, it is because of that inadequacy that you need to attend an Orthodox synagogue where you will be warmly welcomed.

7) You, surely want your children and grand-children to remain Jewish and be qualified to marry Jews everywhere, make certain, then, to be guided by an Orthodox Rabbi in all areas of marriage, divorce, conversion, etc.

8) These are critical days for the State of Israel, under continuous threat by the Arabs and their allies throughout the world. Our return to Torah, in Israel and in the diaspora, will merit us to receive G-d’s help and guidance.
_____

THE UNION OF ORTHODOX RABBIS
OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA
235 EAST BROADWAY
NEW YORK, N.Y. 10002

212 964-6337
212 964-6338

A HALACHIC RULING

PROCLAIMED BY THE UNION OF ORTHODOX RABBIS OF THE

UNITED STATES AND CANADA - (AGUDATH HARABONIM)

Adar II, 5757
March 1997

It is prohibited to pray in a non-Orthodox Temple at any time. If one does not have an Orthodox synagogue within walking distance, one should pray at home. This is so even on Rosh Hashonah. One must not pray in a Conservative of Reform Temple, even if it means not hearing the blowing of the Shofar. This ruling is affirmed by the prior ruling of such Torah luminaries as Hagaon Reb Moshe Feinstein, zt'l, the late president of the Union of Orthodox Rabbis, and Hagaon Reb Joseph B. Soloveitchik, zt'l, of Boston, the late honorary president of the Union of Orthodox Rabbis.

Therefore, we call upon all Jews to discontinue to pray any time in a Conservative of Reform temple and instead pray in an Orthodox synagogue. If you have no Orthodox shul within walking distance, then pray at home.

May G-d grant that both the laity and the clergy of the Reform and Conservative movements will be guided by the light of the Torah to abandon their erroneous ways and through genuine Teshuva (repentance) return to Torah-Judaism."
______

The BADATZ in Eretz Yisroel of 2008 and and Agudas Harabonim in America of 1997, and Rav Eliashiv's call for the creation of a Registry of Halachic Jews, see below, saw fit to issue declarations and one can see that one of the core issues is the concern that these Orthodox and Charedi bodies have about the laxity of accepting watered-down or re-invented ideas about Yiddishkeit for a variety of reasons.

The phenomenon of the Anusim is related to the non-Halachic "conversions" by Reform and Conservative and to the "Jews by Choice" movement and of course to the vaguele-defined over-all strategy of EJF and how it wishes to move with or within these events.

Here is a link to the full text of the Agudas Harabonim declaration:

http://truejews.org/Igud_Historic_Declaration.htm

and here is the link and the full text of an article that was published in the English yated in 1999
http://truejews.org/Jewsih_Registration.htm
_____

From: Yated Neeman USA (Wed, 29 Dec 1999)

Rav Elyashiv:

"Independent Registry an Urgent Necessity"

by Moshe Schapiro

As hundreds of thousands of gentile immigrants continue to pour into Israel from the former Soviet Union, the Torah leadership of Eretz Yisroel has reached a momentous decision: to set up an independent registry to keep track of who is Jewish. Rav Yosef Shalom Eliyashiv and Rav Aharon Leib Shteinman strongly support the plan.

"There is no longer any doubt that the majority of immigrants coming to this country are not Jewish," says Rav Yosef Efrati, Rav Eliyashiv's closest disciple. "The Jewish Agency itself admits this, and yet many immigrants are [falsely] given documents stating that they are Jewish. Two generations from now, their children will speak fluent Hebrew and behave like regular Israelis, and no one will be able to tell the difference. What will prevent them from marrying Jews?"

According to Rav Efrati, Rav Eliyashiv shed many tears before finally arriving at this decision. He realizes that the establishment of an independent registry will divide the Jewish nation and evoke a strong backlash from the Israeli government and from the Reform and Conservative movements, as well as confuse and possibly alienate many non-aligned secular Jews. However, the alternative -- standing aside and allowing the wholesale infiltration of hundreds of thousands of gentiles into the Jewish People -- is totally unacceptable.

To date, over 500,000 non-Jewish immigrants have entered Israel under the aegis of the Law of Return. The law grants full citizenship status not only to Jews, but also to gentile descendants of Jews, and to the gentile next of kin of gentile descendants of Jews. Often, the Jewish Agency flies entire clans of gentiles to Israel on the basis of a long-forgotten Jewish grandfather of one of its members. Lately, gentiles throughout Russia have been applying for citizenship on the basis of forged documents linking them to fictitious Jewish relatives who supposedly lived several decades ago.

Though the immigration issue forced the decision to establish an independent registry, the system would solve many other problems that are not being addressed effectively by the governmental registry. For example, better tracking of mamzerim and Karaites [who have special marriage restrictions under Jewish Law].

In view of the long-term repercussions of establishing the independent registry, the Torah leadership of Eretz Yisroel will involve spiritual leaders from around the world in the plan so as to gain as wide a consensus as possible before implementing it in practice.

"Most Jews-even non-religious ones-identify with the halachic definition of who is a Jew. The key will be in how the plan is presented to them," Rav Efrati says. "This is one of the major obstacles to implementing the plan at this time. The Torah leadership of Eretz Yisroel wants to avoid alienating non-religious Jews at all costs. This would be counterproductive, since the objective here is to encourage every halachic Jew in the world to join the registry."

The American Torah community will play a central role in the implementation of the plan, since Israeli law prohibits the establishment of independent registries inside the country. Therefore, it is likely that the data bank will be situated in the United States.

The sheer logistics of registering approximately 12,000,000 Jews in all parts of the world are another daunting challenge. However, this has not deterred the spiritual leaders of Eretz Yisroel.

"Some people say that one should not ring the alarm when one does not have the complete solution to a problem," says Rav Efrati. "Rav Eliyashiv, however, disagrees. He believes that one should cry out even if one does not have the complete solution, for the very act of crying out will alert others and motivate them to work for the good of Klal Yisroel."
_____

Here are some important things to consider and it is not clear yet how they will jell:

One wonders how Rav Eliashiv's call in 1999 now fits in with EJF's desire to facilitate conversions? EJF has also not clarified if it will get involved in helping Anusim get conversions. The Reform and Conservative will no doubt stand behind the Anusim. The Agudas Harabonim has pasuled the Reform and Conservative. The BADATZ has pasuled the EJF. Rav Eliashiv has made it clear that there should be a Registry for all Halachic Jews.

Anusim join the Falashas, Jews with Reform and Conservative conversions, Russian Jews with partila non-Halachic Jewish lineage, and gentiles converted by Orthodox batei din under highly questionable Halachic circumstances such the non_Jew in an interfaith intermarriage converting for the sake of the Jewish spouse and partner.

Hopefully the BADATZ will take the lead in seeing the total picture of all these diparate groups seeking to all of a sudden "become instant Jews" and look into the matter conmprehesivly and block the door, in the spirit of Ezra HaSofer as a precedent! and issue definitive prohibitions and guidelines to stop invalid and doubtful conversions of all sorts in the light of so many alien and marginal groups and the organizations that back them wishing to knock down not just the doors to Klal Yisroel but to destroy the very core notion of H-shem himself being the one who is hamavdil bein Yisroel lo'amim.

Descendants of Marranos (Anousim) - should they be encouraged to convert?

The problems of conversion are not limited to the question of intermarriage or the Russian and Ethiopian immigration to Israel. There is apparently a world wide effort to bring the descendants of the Jews of Spain and Portugal who were forced to convert - back to Judaism. What follows is an excerpt of an article that appears on the Aish HaTorah website [link below] which originally appeared in the Jerusalem Post. See also my previous post.

Welcome Back

What Ferdinand and Isabella, Spain's 15th century monarchs, had sought to demolish through Inquisition and expulsion, Nuria was determined to bring back to life. Her return to Judaism was the culmination of a spiritual quest, one that led her and her husband to study with an Orthodox rabbi in Barcelona who embraced them and received them with warmth and understanding.

Slowly but surely they made Judaism the focal point of their lives, adopting the rituals and lifestyle of traditional Jews. They now attend synagogue regularly, observe Shabbat and keep kosher. Nuria has even organized a local group of activists, who took upon themselves the thankless task of defending Israel's good name in the local Spanish media, where the Jewish state comes under frequent, and rather fierce, attack from its critics.

After the rabbinical court judges accepted them, Nuria decided to become "Nurit," and Edward fittingly took the name of "Yitzhak," after the patriarch who was nearly sacrificed on the altar, only to be saved at the last minute by Divine intervention.

When I saw Nurit the following day, she was at the Western Wall, her eyes filled with tears. The first thing she had done, she told me, when she approached the ancient relic of the Holy Temple, was to touch its stones. She then cast her eyes heavenwards, and addressed her grandfather: "I did it, grandpa. I have returned. I am a Jew."

Hearing this story, I was overcome with emotion. What greater testament could there be to the power of the Jewish soul, to the eternal and unbreakable spirit of the pintele Yid, the Jewish spark that can never be extinguished? Across Spain and the rest of the Spanish-speaking world, there are untold thousands, possibly more, who still carry this spark within them, longing to return to their people, to come home again to the faith and beliefs that were so cruelly torn away from them over the centuries.

The Jewish people owe it to them and to their ancestors to recognize the anguish and suffering they have endured and to facilitate their return. The descendants of the Anousim (Hebrew for "those who were coerced") are grappling with profound issues of identity, history and faith. They should not have to do so on their own.

Specifically, there are a number of steps that can and should be taken to help them, including publishing more material on Jewish topics in Spanish, opening small and accessible Jewish libraries throughout Spain, and raising awareness about them among rabbis and communal leaders to ease their reintegration into the Jewish community.

Israel should also consider establishing a national memorial to the victims of the Inquisition, and it should press the Spanish government to do the same. This would be a highly symbolic, though important, measure, one which would both educate future generations about the trauma of the Inquisition, and confer upon its victims the recognition they justly deserve.

At a time when so many young Jews are leaving the fold, Israel now has an opportunity to recover countless numbers of its long-lost brethren. From Spain to Brazil to the southwestern United States, the number of Anousim coming out into the open is surging. The time has come to welcome them back home.

This article originally appeared in the Jerusalem Post.

The full article can also be read at: http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/

The_Inquisition_Full_Circle.asp

Author Biography:
Michael Freund served as deputy director of communications and policy planning in the Israeli prime minister's office from 1996 to 1999. He is currently an editorial writer and syndicated columnist for the Jerusalem Post.

HaRav Aaron Soloveichik zt"l - descendants of Marranos are treated as Jews

I just received this letter. Does anyone know if it is authentic and the context in which it was written?

Eternal Jewish Family defended - we are getting somewhere

Anonymous from several days ago

Reb RaP, I think we are getting somewhere.

First of all, I certainly am the commenter who used the "histrionic" capitals.

And I think you have said some nice things about me in the beginning of your response, so thank you for that.

Let me try to respond to a couple points:

1) There have been comments, recently and a bit earlier, critical of the EJF website. Overall, I think many excellent points have been made. The simple truth, which answers all of these, is that the website is under construction.

Reconstruction, really. It was once a much fuller website, but there were shortcomings pointed out with it and much of it was pulled. [One of the commenters here gave some credit to Dr. Eidensohn for this. Could be.]
It is being redone carefully. I have reason to know a little about this. You would think that with such a big organization, a professional facelift would take place with lightning speed, but alas, that is not how it is. I believe that after the changes, many of the currently justified criticisms will be moot points.

2) You state the equation EJF+Nefesh B’Nefesh=American "Falashas" three times, and seem to find it compelling, but I can barely figure out what you are talking about here. You seem to be concerned that EJF is performing mass conversions and shipping them off to Eretz Yisroel where they will join thousands of others with pseudo-conversions.

It is exactly the opposite. The problem of pseudo-converts slipping into Eretz Yisroel and the Jewish people existed prior to EJF. One of EJF's primary missions is to keep out the many who seek a pseudo-conversion and assist and direct the few who are committed to being gerei tzedek.

3) Further on that theme: EJF is not the crash course. Crash courses were what existed before EJF. Going through EJF will not save a ger any time or effort; it may increase the time and effort he put into his conversion. It will save him only the time and effort of going down the blind alleys of improper batei dinim.

4) The second response states:
The fact that Rav Elyashiv has met to DISCUSS an issue does not mean that the Rav SUPPORTS it. Then, he gives the example of the silk screen Sefer Torah, which was discussed by a group of Rabbis in his home, and which, of course Rav Elyashiv rejects.

But my proof was from this line of the archived Yated article: He said that HaRav Eliashiv went out of his way to express his support for the conference. This "conference" was not the opening session, for which Rav Elyashiv himself was present, but the three day conference as a whole. And neither the conference nor the opening session was a discussion of the propriety of EJF. That had already beed decided in the affirmative beforehand.

Then he writes: In other words, IF Rav Elyashiv did indeed approve of EJF, then there should be a letter to that effect.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't follow. Not everything in this world that Rav Elyashiv approves of or encourages gets a letter. But I will agree with you that such a letter would be nice.

5) Finally, i must admit that you caught me off-guard with your response about the hypothetical letter with 40-plus signatures. I thought you would say that it wouldn't really matter, but that's not what you said. Let me just say that I think you might be pleasantly surprised before long.

That's it for now. It's late here.

Ingathering of Jews or proselytes?

Anonymous wrote


"Incidently, there is something else to be concerned about, and that is that EJF and the powers behind it, will want to somehow compromise the Nefesh BeNefesh program to its agenda."

From Nefesh b'Nefesh's cached website their goal is stated as :
"revitalizing the Aliyah process and increasing its awareness".

Another organization that deserves some attention because of its role in encouraging "anusim" to make aliya to Israel is Shalvai Israel.

Shalvei Israel operates Machon Miriam a Spanish language conversion institute in Israel. Dozens of Spanish and Portuguese crypto-Jews graduate from Machon Miriam each year, and proceed to undergo formal conversion by Israel’s Chief Rabbinate.

It also helps people who have converted to Judaism make Aliyah.

Shalvai Israel's cached website states:

"Rabbi Eliahu Birnbaum is the Rabbi and Educational Director of Shavei Israel..... Since 1998 he has served as Director of Machon Amiel and a judge on the Chief Rabbinate of Israel Conversion Court. "

Shalvei Israel receives much of its funding from Christian organizations as does Nefesh b'Nefesh. If I am reading this correctly, then one of the Judges on the Chief Rabbinate's Conversion Court receives funding from Christian organizations to go to South and Latin America to proselytize Hispanic Goyim.

Kulanu is another organization that proselytizes to Latin and South American "conversos" and encourages them to make aliyah to Israel.

From Kulanu's website:

"Kulanu assists communities without Jewish background who desire to embrace Judaism....For Example a Catholic named Villanueva, (in Peru) decided in 1966 to become Jewish after pondering the Bible. Many followed him, and after study with a rabbi in the late 1980s, nearly 300 people were converted by a beit din from Israel and made aliyah.

Another large group of Jews was 'lost' during the period of forced conversions to Christianity in Spain and Portugal starting in the 15th century. Many of these so-called 'Marranos' continued to practice Judaism in secret. Today their descendants can be found in Brazil, Mexico, the southwestern United States, and Majorca, as well as mainland Spain and Portugal.

Kulanu's activities concern these dispersed groups, including research, contacts, education, donation of religious books and articles, facilitation of conversion when requested, and help with relocation to Israel if desired."

One of the Rabbis involved with Kulanu as well as several other projects outreaching to "anusim' and "conversos" is Rigoberto Manny Vinas.

Vinas, born of Cuban Gentile parents who believe they are "conversos" received smicha from Yeshiva University and is currently the spiritual leader of the Lincoln Park Jewish Center in Yonkers. Much of Vina's work, which began in Rabbi Avi Weiss' Hebrew Institute of Riverdale, involves outreaching to "anusim"/"conversos" and encouraging them toward aliyah to Israel.

Incidentally, Rabbi Pinchas Weberman, who was listed on EJF's cached website as the Av Beis Din of an approved Conversion Court has a son, Rabbi David Weberman who married Esther Vinas, the sister of Rabbi Rigoberto Vinas.

The basis for outreaching to "anusim/conversos" as full Jews I have been told is a letter allegedly signed by Rabbi Aaron Soloveitchik which I have copied below:

1 nisan 5754.

To whom it may concern:

I am taking the liberty to write about the people in the Americas who claim to be descendants of the marranos of Spain and Portugal.

They must be treated like full Jews in every way.(counted for a minyan, given aliyot, etc.).

Only when one of these anusim wishes to marry a Jew, must he or she undergo full conversion. That is, he or she must undergo immersion in a mikve (without the blessing) and full acceptance of mitzvot or commitment to the Torah. A man, if he is uncircumcised, must in addition undergo circumcision; if he is already circumcised, then he has to undergo hatafat dam brit.

Hoping that this will clarify the solution to this problem, I remain -

Respectfully yours,

Rabbi Aaron Soloveitchik"


I hope that this will inspire RaP toward more research into this topic.

The mountain produced a mouse or you call this a defense of EJF!? II

Recipients and Publicity wrote:

Continuing response to "anymous from yesterday" with replies starting with "RaP":

"I find your second question strange. "What is this blog's policy towards Rav Eliashiv" I don't know what you are asking."

****

You know exactly what I am asking.

I will copy and paste:

Recipients and Publicity wrote viter, after saying that the MO were out and the Bedatz were out:

RaP: Well at least that part is true with all the statements and confirmations by the MOs themselves!

"And then that leaves Rabbi Reuven Feinstein"

RaP: Nu, so, he is Rabbi Tropper's most VISIBLE rabbinic backer, as he is willing to see and be seen with Rabbi Tropper and EJF people. Period. Beyond that as far as is known Rav Reuven has never granted a written piece of paper to either EJF or Rabbi Tropper. The best that we are told to expect, is to think that this is the "Torah SheBe'al Peh" and that we must spend our money and call up Rav Reuven. Is that nice? Does it mean that anyone reading this post, it coul be in Alaska or where-have-you may want to know about which Rabbi certifies this organization and would call him, thinking maybe that he has a big staff, and find that he is either giving a Talmudic discourse to his talmidim, or attending an emergency meeeting at Agudah world headquarters, or running to celebrate at someone's wedding. It is ridiculous to say "call him" to Rabbi Eidensohn because this is not a personal question from Rabbi Eidensohn, it is an existential question for EJF from Klal Yisroel: show me your hechsher, don't just tell me about it. When one goes to order and ingest a slice of pizza in a simple pizza store one looks for the certificate on the wall, so why if we are talking about ingesting gentiles into the kishkas of Klal Yisroel is it not equally fair to ask for a written hechsher?

IS RECIPIENTS AND PUBLICITY IMPLYING THAT RAV ELYASHIV IS A KATLA KANYA, NOT EVEN WORTHY OF BEING MENTIONED??!! I POSTED THE ARTICLE WHICH SAID:

RaP: Please do not use upper-case letters too often, because in computer-loshen and etiquette it indicates that your are SHOUTING and that is considered not derech eretzdik if you keep on doing it all the time especially. As for the question, sorry, but no-one meant or implied anything. You seem to want Rabbi Eidensohn to be put on the spot, but no doubt, he like all of us have only the HIGHEST kovod and respect for Rav Eliashiv. Just that the photo-ops he gave with EJF for the Yated are long forgotten merely because the Yated and the Modiah publish center-fold pictures every week and there are almost always a few with Rav Eliashiv in them meeting with this or that group of rabbis and he seems to look very tired and why don't those people realize that they are dreying him a kop 99% of the time because if he wants something done, he has been in Eretz Yisroel long enough (almost 100 years B"H), he was even one of the three head dayanim in the rabbanut, and he has connections with the whole Israeli establishment (his late Rebbetzin was the daughter of the much loved Rav Aryeh Levin, zt"l) so no-one is insulting him and maybe he should not be tshepped so much by people who have their own agendas.

"The opening session was held on Sunday at the home of Maran HaRav Eliashiv shlita and attended by a delegation of rabbonim from the conference...HaRav Nochum Eisenstein spoke to the conference detailing the message of Maran HaRav Eliashiv shlita. He said that HaRav Eliashiv went out of his way to express his support for the conference."

RaP: That was then, this is now. So, good, so did many people go, lunch was free, but with time when people started asking questions and not getting REAL answers beyond platititudes, the oilem started getting suspicious about all these paid conventions for prospective geirim in hotels and resorts, secret conclaves for rabbis, grants given to people who came to the conventions, it's all too dizzying.

AND RAV NOCHUM EISENSTEIN IS STILL RAV ELYASHIV'S MAN ON GERUS ISSUES AND IS STILL HEAVILY INVOLVED IN EJF. WHAT KIND OF A CHUTZPAH IS IT TO IGNORE THE POSEK HADOR??!!

RaP: No-one is ignoring him and you must learn not to use upper-case letters to SHOUT, noone is deaf when they read words. Anyhow what does it mean that "RAV NOCHUM EISENSTEIN IS STILL RAV ELYASHIV'S MAN ON GERUS ISSUES"? Who told you this, it is false. The entire notion that Rav Eliashiv has this or that "MAN" for this or that mission is false. Sure, Rav Eisenstein is blessed with lots of koiches. He is a lot younger than Rav Eliashiv and he is involved with his geirus commission and beis din, but does that mean that he is the sole person who speaks for Rav Eliashinv on geirus? Very unlikely. The klal is harbeh shluchim yesh lo lamakom and no doubt Rav Eliashiv follows this as well. Stop carrying on.

My question is: Why you would repeat "Recipients and publicity"'s comment as a
blog post. As long as it was just his comment in the comments section, my complaints were only against him. But once you present it as a blog post, that puts your prestige behind it. That's why I asked what THIS BLOG'S policy is towards Rav Elyashiv.

RaP: Thank you for bringing this point up, indeed Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn is now thanked for posting these comments, evidently he feels they are worthy. But you know, to use your logic, should it now be claimed that if a poster is somehow speaking for Rav Shternbuch if Rabbi Eidensohn who is close to rav Shternbuch puts up these posts on his blog? Obviously not. There is no automatic "hechsher" by association unless it is explicitly stated by the one who has the power and either does or does not grant an EXPLICIT hechsher. No-one would hire an out-of-town rabbi based on "call his rosh yeshiva" that's not the way the world works, written certificates are compulsory, EJF cannot have it both ways, either it is heimish or professional. If it is professional it must come up with the paper work, if it is heimish let it keep on serving meals to the world at conventions. Those Rebbetzins sure need some R&R.

****
"Thus I have seen no written evidence that Rav Eliashiv has been fully informed of the activities of EJF or has approved them. "

***

This is disingenuous! You know quite well that Rav Eisenstein is Rav Elyashiv's right hand man on all inyanei giyur and that Rav Eisenstein is heavily involved with EJF. If you have any sfeikos, why not give him a call?

RaP: This was alread responded to. well. Let's say he is. Can anyone clarify what Rab Eisenstein's and Rav Eliashiv's response is to the BADATZ public and written statements? Presumably the Torah world can expect a clarification from Rav Eisenstein where he stands. It is possible that in next week's Modiah one will read that Rav Eisenstein has withdrawn from EJF. Let' see what happens. We have not seen the end of this story.

While you are at it, why not give Rav Dovid Feinstein a call? I know very well his carefully researched opinion of EJF and it is very far from yours.

RaP: Sure, let's give out nickels and dimes to any Jew who wishes to call the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah about anything. And talking of which, since Rav Dovid Feinstein was recently elevated to the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah are all the members in full agreement with his brother's association with EJF and with the alleged claim that Rav Dovid Feinstein says it's ok to go with EJF? Why isn't Rav Dovid Feinstein's name on the EJF website if he is one of its biggest supportrs? Just another one of many unanswered questions.

Listen, if you want to abide by the Bedatz's shitah and argue it's merits, I have no problem. But don't pretend that there are no serious poskim and gedolei Torah who stand by EJF and appreciate what they are doing.

RaP: Please post in WRITING all the haskomas from those poskim and gedolei Torah. Thank you. Otherwise it's still a case of kabdeihu vechashdeihu.

And don't post on your blog questionable material from sources like "Recipients and publicity", This lowers the standard that I think you are trying to maintain here.

RaP: Actually RaP has raised the standard of this blog by going online and spending hours doing Google searches for articles and links, such as to:

*The "Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Lillian+Jean+Kaplan+Foundation%22+&btnG=Google+Search

*"Dr. Thomas Tom Kaplan" http://www.leorenergy.com/about.php

*"Leor Energy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leor_Energy

*"Guma Aguiar"

http://www.leorenergy.com/g_aguiar_management.php

(and more)

where the last paragraph states: "Mr. Aguiar is committed to numerous philanthropic causes and organizations. He is the CHAIRMAN of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, a private family foundation, he serves as CO-CHAIRMAN of EJF, the Eternal Jewish Family. Additionally, Mr. Aguiar serves on the boards of: Electrum Resources LLC, a private precious metals exploration company; Panthera, an organization focused on global wild cat conservation; Mount Sinai Medical Center Foundation, an organization committed to the advancement of the art and science of medicine through clinical excellence; and, Nefesh B’Nefesh, an organization dedicated to facilitating and revitalizing the Aliyah process and increasing its awareness. Mr. Aguiar and his wife Jamie have two children."

Wow, he is the CHAIRMAN of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation AND CO-CHAIRMAN of EJF and only by searching his business website does anyone find out about this???? Why isn't this information on the EJF's own website, or isn't it important for people to know who the lay leaders of EJF are?, and just be sold phoney-baloney stories that deceased rabbis like Rabbi Moshe Feinsten zt"l (deceased for over 20 years) and Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach zt"l (deceased for over 10 years) giving their "approval" and "blessings" to EJF , founded in 2005, this is not supposed to be like Lubavitch where the deceased rabbis give their blessings from beyond their tombs.

Honestly, wouldn't it be more meaningful and impressive to modern-day readers to know about such big young magnates who guide EJF's affairs (yes, yes, Rav Eliashiv is sitting there in his study with a video hookup to all the places on Earth he guides telling them what to do every day and making sure they make no Halachic mistakes.) So let's get real for a chanbge and stop pulling the wool over people's eyes about nice saintly Rabbis, some in heaven already, and talk about the real powers that be, like Tom Kaplan and Guma Aguiar and who knows who else is on the board who write the checks and make sure EJF stays afloat.

[And I just recently saw his comment, presented as a blog post, on Thomas Kaplan. That was momish disgusting, full of innuendo, half-truths and at least a couple outright lies. You can certainly aim higher.]

RaP: Nonsense! Instead of belly-aching, it would have been more helpful if you could have pointed out the actual errors instead of having fits of self-righteousness.

And takkeh, please ask R' Eisenstein what Rav Elyashiv holds and Rav Dovid Feinstein what he holds. True, their answers won't be written on paper, but last time I checked, we still believed in Torah SheBaal Peh

RaP: As was mentioned, and take note, that the Torah was first written on stone with a Torah Shebichtav first. You cannot put the cart before the horse and expect people to proclaim the cart to be the hosre and the horse to be a cart. But then again, Rabbi Tropper sees himself taking secular guys and making them into die-hard Charedi yeshiva bochurim, and now helping to make gentiles into Jews, so why not try to put the cart before the horse and expect people to buy that?

The mountain produced a mouse or you call this a defense of EJF!?I

Recipients and Publicity wrote:

In reply to "anonymous from yesterday":

The following is most of your response, the analysis and reply to it will begind with "RaP":

"Why don't you save us the effort and tell us Rav Eisenstein's understanding of Rav Eliashiv concerning EJF. It would also be helpful if you tell us Rav Dovid's views since you acknowledge that you are very familiar with them."
***********

"I can tell you in short."

RaP: Why only "in short" when you come on this blog and criticize others and now it seems that you lack information yourself to talk at length.

"If you want something more detailed, I will have to go back to my sources."

RaP: This again is chutzpah, after you make Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn take down posts by claiming that things that were said are not true, then you turn around and say in effect that you do not know all the facts, because someone who says "I will have to go back to my sources" means they do not have all the facts at their fingertips so how can you be believed when you claim that other information is not correct? Maybe you are just acting, and when it suits you, you say you know that some things are lies, but when pressed for more details about other things, you plead ignorance and ask for time out to "go back to your sources" so which is it, you do or do not know the whole story? And if you are defending EJF you need to know the whole story inside-out, because those on the outside of EJF do not know the story because EJF keeps the world in the dark, making it inevitable that inquiring minds will draw conclusions based on what is or isn't said, including research on the Internet. So if you know only half the story stay home till you learn the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and tell the world that you have nothing to hide and neither does EJF.

"Rav Elyashiv gave his blessings to EJF from its earliest months. Long before EJF came on the scene, Rav Elyashiv encouraged his people [including Rav Eisenstein and Rav Kreiswirth] to found the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giyur to deal with many of the same problems."

RaP: Now the above is a very, very tricky answer, but you are not going to get away with it. This has been EJF's ploy from the start, to somehow or other wrap itself in the cloth of "Rav Eisenstein and Rav Kreiswirth to found the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei" which is a false claim because EJF and the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur were on different tracks at their birth. They come from different wombs and different mothers legamri. But you only hint at it by saying "Long before EJF came on the scene, Rav Elyashiv encouraged his people" which is true, but they were NOT thinking of EJF when they were making their plans. This should be very clear, that the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur and its Beis Din LeInyanei Giur was ach verak the brainchild of Rav Chaim Kreiswirth zt"l who passed away in 2001 !!! But EJF was only founded in 2005 and it is impossible that Rav Kreiswirth, who was an Odom Godol and pikeiach and wished to STEM and STOP false geirim and not to set up a process to help goyim become Jews. In other words Rav Kreiswith's goal was to create BARRIERS of Halachic checks and balances, whereas EJF's goal is to OPEN THE GATES and grease the wheels and help gentiles get "top class" conversions. So we would really need to know what Rav Kreiswith was thinking, because he was the one who was the mover and shaker to set up the Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur and its beis din. Probably, the only ones who could tell us what Rav Kreiswirth was thinking and intended is perhaps by asking his son Rav Dov Kreiswirth and close associates like Dayan Tuvia Weiss and Dayan Elya Sternbuch of Antwerp. So sure, many rabbonim and all batei din deal "with many of the same problems" but to imply that somehow there is an automatic connection between the early years and founding of Vaad HaRabbonim Haolami LeInyonei Giur (founded before 2001), and the founding of the EJF (founded 2005)is a stretch of the imagination. Finally, Rav Eisenstein was actually chosen to be Rav Kreiswirth's point man, but would Rav Kreiswith follow a written BADATZ ruling or hear-say and claims that this or that rov said or did not say.

"Rav Elyashiv's shaliach, R' Eisenstein, was happy to take an active role in EJF when it did come along. The support has grown since then. EJF is in continual contact with R' Eisenstein. Also, less importantly, Rav Eisenstein has participated, to my knowledge, in every EJF conference."

RaP: Yes, this seems true. That is because Rav Eisenstein was looking for any foothold in America because for a long time the American Rabbonim did not want him to come to the USA and preach his doctrines of divisiveness (not a bad thing according to some) but not suited for building alliances and Rabbi Tropper learned the hard way. Even ten years ago, around 1999, in response to giur problems when Rav Eliashiv sent his REAL right hand man, Rav Efrati to America to ask the Agudath Israel of America to start a data base for a sefer yuchsin so that it could be inscribed who is a Jew and who is not, the Agudah Rabbonim turned it down as being too divisive as they were not looking to create an open schism with the Modern Orthodox rabbinate more than already existed. This is because there are still many family and personal ties between many people in the yeshiva velt and the Modern Orthodox velt and there are many communal, political and personal reasons that Agudah in America has avoided confrontations with the Modern Orthdox, and Rav Tropper really to his credit was working within this "misgeret" or framework, but Rav Eisenstein obviosly has other ways of functioning. So to claim that there was this happy union is false, it was and is a marriage of convenience, Rav Eisenstein needs a podium and a platform for his divisive agenda (it's actually a good one, he wants to keep out weak conversions and those who help that) but EJF needs all the rabbinical support it can get, especially in Israel, so for them Rav Eisenstien is a link to the more Charedi world that then links up with Rav Eliashiv. But Rav Eliashiv is not sitting there in his room cheering on every non-Jew who wishes to convert, no doubt he is praying that less, not more gentiles will want to, or apply for, conversions.

As to Rav Dovid Feinstein, a well-known mashba"k from Eretz Yisroel was in America for medical treatment. He met Rav Dovid Feinstein and asked him about EJF. R' Dovid did not automatically approve it because his brother, Rav Reuven, heads it. Rather, he said that he had received several queries about EJF and had researched it carefully. He said, in Yiddish, that they are machmir on all the chumros and the things they do are lichatchilah shebilichatchilah. He may have added a couple more positive points, but I would have to check back with my sources.

RaP: Listen have some sechel and don't embarrass Rav Dovid for your own reasons. Rav Dovid Feinstein is probabaly the wrong person to ask this pesak since his brother rav Reuven is tied in with Rav Tropper and is publicly very strongly associated with EJF even though, for all his attachment and willingness to be photographed for EJF, he has not issed an approval in wrting as far as is known. Listen to your own words here. After screaming and shouting that someone must call up Rav Dovid Feinstein to get his views on EJF you now say that we have to rely on hearsay from someon in Israel, in Yiddish?, that you are not even sure about, about who was this person that claims they heard from Rav Dovid. What kind of proof is that and your words: "He said, in Yiddish, that they are machmir on all the chumros and the things they do are lichatchilah shebilichatchilah" but what pray are they "machmir" in, as if anyone is supposed to know? Are they "machmir" in their zeal to mekarev gentiles and megayer them? No doubt they mean well, that is not the question, but who are they even? Who is the staff? What is the curriculum? What if a thousand concerned ehrliche yidden are reading this post and they all call Rav Dovid Feinstein or anyone, is that a normal or reasonable thing to say and then they will be told that EJF is "machmir", very nice, but it means nothing when no written detils are offered.

Torah SheBeal Peh is great, but first comes Torah SheBichtav!

EJF must come up with written Haskommas soon or they will face a blizzard of more written attacks from the BADATZ that will force anyone associated with them to withdraw just as the written protests of the Rabbonim closed down the MBD concert in Israel and now the Lipa concert in America.

Scorecard - EJF is losing

Recipients and Publicity wrote:

The "alignment" of the RCA and the Chief Rabbinate of the State of Israel should not come as any surprise nor is it a great chidush.

But the real chiddush is that the awakening of this sleeping tiger will now seriously cut into the the EJF's very existence and to Rabbi Tropper's role as a kind of self-appointed de facto "chief rabbinic co-ordinator of conversions" in America.

Rabbi Tropper has only himself to blame for centralizing all power relating to EJF's rabbinical affairs for himself. Rav Reuven Feinstein has too much of a busy life running the branch of MTJ on Staten Island. He is a Rosh Yeshiva first and foremost and in that role he is not a dayan on batei din nor a community activist no matter how much Rabbi Tropper wishes to delude the world that Rav Reuven is somehow intimately involved with EJF because he is not.

EJF all starts with Rabbi Tropper and Tom Kaplan and ends with Rabbi Tropper and Tom Kaplan. And since Tom Kaplan is not a rabbi, Rabbi is the star of the show of EJF which is how he has always wished it to be.

That tight-fisted running of an operation may be fine for a CEO or for the way Rabbi Tropper micro-manages his own Yeshiva Kol Yaakov. But it is for good reason that when it comes to the application of Dinei Torah that there be as large a quorom of equally empowered dayanim. Thus a basic beis din needs a minimum of three reliable dayanim which should be instructive to any Torah leader that to have only one leader at the top is not the best situation, especially in dinei Torah.

The point being, that with the RCA's announcement that they have finally organized for themselves and agreed upon their own choices for dayanim and reliable judges of dayanim, and have delivered a strong blow to the EJF and it's modus operandi.

That the RCA will have Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwartz as Av Beth Din is no chidush. He has been in this role for a long time and his Beth Din has long dealt with conversions as head of the Chicago Rabbinical Council,

see "cRc Beth Din" http://www.crcweb.org/bethDin/

"In addition to dealing in the area of Jewish divorce, the Jewish court deals with Jewish adoption, CONVERSION, cases of mediation, and legal disputes. The Chicago Rabbinical Council is proud to announce that two additional distinguished..."

so this is nothing new.

What is also not new is that Rabbi Mordechai Willig of the Beth Din of America (established 1960, "The Beth Din was founded by and is affiliated with the Rabbinical Council of America (RCA) and is sponsored by the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America") that will be involved in the RCA effort because the Beth Din Of America has also long occupied itself with the subject of conversions, although it does not use the word outright, it is clear that that is what the line "Personal Status: Issuing certification of personal religious status recognized by rabbinic courts in Israel and worldwide" relates to on its "Services" page:
http://www.bethdin.org/services.htm

The Israeli Chief Rabbinate is deeply involved in issues of conversion http://www.religions.gov.il/שירותי+דת/מערך+הגיור/default.htm
as is known.

The greater presence of especially Sephardi Charedi-oriented rabbis within the Israeli Chief Rabbinate and the concerns within Israel about the secular government's desire to meddle in this field has put the right wing in the Rabbanut on guard and one way that has played out is by confronting the RCA rabbis in America.

At the same time the RCA rabbis were probably at first intrigued by Rabbi Tropper's new EJF project and the pipe-dream that maybe there was a chance of a "big tent for geirus" but that was shattered beyond repair by Rabbi Eisenstein's pronouncements from the podium in 2007 that the Modern Orthodox rabbis are pasul if they dream of a world before 6,000 years ago and or if they also "wear perfume' (deodorant?) and wear anything but uniform Charedi-black something that is pashut for a frummer Yid but sounds very castrating to a YU grad who may have worn a kippah seruga and colored shirts all his life.

Anyhow, the RCA pretty quickly saw the wrting on the wall and by 2007, they claim it was 2006, but the "official policy paper" was only put out in April 2007 and now they are confirming the conformation in February, nearly March 2008.

But here is what the RCA was already saying in 2006, from its website

http://www.rabbis.org/conversion.cfm

"Conversion to Judaism: In the summer of 2006 the Rabbinical Council of America and the Beth Din of America commenced a project to establish an improved and more dependable conversion process that would Be fully in accordance with Halachah (Jewish law), Ensure sensitivity to the dignity of all potential converts at all times, and Provide reasonable assurance that its converts and their offspring be accorded acceptance and recognition in other Jewish communities in the future. This initiative grew out of a widespread recognition that, in light of the great distances and variations inhering in American Jewish life, the existing system for carrying out conversions in the Orthodox community needed to be reviewed and improved upon. Specifically, it had become more and more difficult for sincere converts, or their offspring, to receive deserved recognition by rabbinic authorities in other communities and countries,
including Israel, due to the growing number of outreach and conversion programs, varying standards adopted by individual rabbis in disparate communities, the increasing incidence and complexity attending so-called mixed marriages and their resulting children, and more generally a lack of reliable data and factual information to be made accessible to converts, rabbis, synagogues, schools, and Jewish communities at large. This is made all the more complex by virtue of the fact that recognition might be sought many years, even decades, after such conversions may have been performed by rabbis and Batei Din who might no longer be active, or even alive."

"With these issues in mind, the RCA and its affiliated Beth Din of America set out to create a comprehensive set of policies and standards, that would be adopted by existing rabbinical courts (Batei Din) dealing with conversions, as well as by new Batei Din that would be established in locales where none already existed. In so doing, individual rabbis would come together in a larger regional structure, pooling their
resources, agreeing to adhere as a group to the published standards, and agreeing for the larger good of all concerned to work together for mutual benefit."

"The result was the establishment of the North American Regional Network of Conversion Courts, launched in Jan 2007. With the passage of time additional Batei Din have been, as will continue to be, established."

"Geirus Policies and Procedures is the document governing the activities of the Regional Network of Conversion Courts."

"Geirus Policies and Procedures" is linked to in full at
http://www.rabbis.org/pdfs/GPSprotocol.pdf

"Geirus Policies and Standards
Governing The Network of Regional Batei Din for Conversion under the auspices of The Rabbinical Council of America and The Beth Din of America Adopted April 30, 2007 Revised November 28, 2007..."

With each and every word, what becomes clear is that that projects like the EJF are doomed from the point of view of Centrist Orthodoxy, Modern Orthodoxy, Religious Zionist-Mizrachi circles in America.

And to top it all off, the real Chidush is that the MOs are now taking out their biggest guns, by stating that they will be using Rabbi Hershel Shachter, "head of the Rabbi Isaac Elhanan Theological Seminary at Yeshiva University in New York" as one of the conversion judges with Rabbi Mordechai Willig. It is well known that the MOs have been using Rabbi Hershel Shachter as their posek for a long time. He is consulted by MO day svhools, congregations, organizations and individauls not to mention the huge YU operation itself. And once they invoke that in this context, that he is also the Rosh Yeshiva of "Rabbi Isaac Elhanan Theological Seminary at Yeshiva University in New York" as is Rabbi Willig (actually Rabbi Norman Lamm is the official only Rosh Yeshiva, but that is a separate discussions about how YU and RIETS and its heirarchy are set up) they have drawn a line in the sand. (Of course Satmar and Chasidim don't care, but they have no shaiches with the YU world and the rest of America, the same reasons that EJF means less than bubkes to them also.)

That is the real chidush, that YU is now officially involved in the question of geurus and has officially unleashed its Roshei Yeshiva to get involved with Beth Dins that deal with conversions and they will have none of EJF's baloney. See also the professional way they work. Everyting is more open, they are not hiding agendas, even though they will not be seen as reliable in Charedi eyes, but that also is no chidush, because there is a huge chasm between Modern Orthodoxy-Religious Zionism and Charedim-Chasidim.

What is interesting is that not only is the pact between the RCA-YU-Modern Orthodox camp and the Israeli Chief Rabbinate-Rabbanut no real surprise because they have been natural allies for a very long time having more in common and very little that they disagree over le'ma'aseh, but this now officially refreshed, reconsummated union and renewed alliance eats into EJF's claims and wishes for itself that it is somehow or other connected to the Israeli Chief Rabbinate as well, when in actual fact the ground beneath under EJF is quickly crumbling in the open for all the world to see.

That is some big headache for EJF.

And then there the issue of the open attack against the EJF from the BADATZ on the right. So far, it would seem that the BADATZ is implying that it would like to see where the Agudah world stands regarding EJF, especially with Agudath Israel of America where it is known that Rav Aharon Schechter the Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Berlin and a key Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah member of Agudah in America is one of Rabbi Tropper's friends. But there are complications for both of them here. No doubt that Rabbi Tropper would love to be able to use Rav Schechter's name as openly as he uses that of Rav Reuven Feinstein as a support for himself, but obviously Rav Schechter has shrewdly not allowed that. Rav Schechter also has veto powers of what can get into the English Yated in America and so far, the recent two-page pro-EJF color ad was not allowed to be published in it, as it was in the English Hamodiahd and the Jewish Press which are not controlled by Gedolim.

Rav Aharan Schechter is also known as HUGELY respectful of Rav Shternbuch and his seforim on the Moadim and piskei Halachah and he would never chas vesholom say anything openly against someone like Rav Shtrenbuch nor openly defy him. No doubt he must be torn in angst between his desire to help Rabbi Tropper and be in good diplomatic standing with billionares like Tom Kaplan and simultaneously not do anything to arouse the suspicions or antagonize Rav Shternbuch and the BADATZ, so he keeps a low profile, does not lend his name, and keeps the EJF ads out of the Yated.

But sitting on the fence will not help anyone, just as Eliyahu HaNovi asked. The question of how long Rav Eisenstein will go along with EJF is not clear either. For all the shouting that he is Rav Eliashiv's "right hand man" on geirus, that is false. Rav Eliashiv does not have and does not need "right hand men" because, Baruch H-shem his own right and left hands work just fine.

Relibale people who have been to Rav Eliashiv's home know that Rav Eliashiv has to listen to a lot of supplicants every day. All sorts of people with their own agendas put him on the spot frequently and he is not in a position to always be frank. So Rav Eisenstein comes to see Rav Eliashiv and chew his ear off about geirim, good, as long as Rav Eisenstein is running his Beis Din LenInyanei Giur he is doing great work to help Klal Yisroel, but that does not mean that he is automatically in the groove with EJf and its global goals to be a clearing house for geirim and help them "make it" through the process.

In fact it's somthing of a paradox right now. Rav Eisenstein is a kanoi. He has already destroyed Rav Tropper's hopes of an alliance with the MO rabbis, and not only that, Rabbi Eisenstein does not go for any Mickey-mouse with geirim, he is very quick to pasul them and has no interest in mass geirus of gentiles, in fact he is suspicicious of each and every one of them and if he had his way, he would probably deport anyone with a weak geirus from Israel. He does not play games.

So why Rav Eisenstein keeps up his alliance with EJF for now is an open mystery and now that the BADATZ has actually done what he no doubt thinks (no doubt that Rav Eisenstein and Rav Shternbuch both agree about what to do about discouraging goyim from becoming geirim as much as they agree on perakim in Chumash), it remains a question of time to see if Rav Eisenstein in Israel and also Rav Schechter and the Agudah in America will join the BADATZ in creating clarity in Klal Yisroel about this challnge of our generation and not hide behind the shadows of doubt which only helps the EJF in its games of deception by deploying genuine unverbalized clear-for-all-to-see s'fekes and reprojecting them as fake "haskomes".

RCA Announces Establishment of Recognized National Network of Rabbinical Courts for Conversion

Dear Rabbi Eidensohn,

In light of all that is happening publicly on your blogsite, I thought you would find this to be interesting, as it was just posted last night on the RCA website.
http://www.rabbis.org/news/article.cfm?id=101132

The "standards" they refer to are attached as a PDF file. Of interest were part 3d in particular, as well as 5a.
Thank you again for all you are doing.
----
5a. Where the Conversion is Primarily for the sake of Marriage

i. Where marriage to a particular Jewish partner is a major incentive to a prospective conversion, there is an increased possibility that the geirus may come with less than the complete commitment necessary for a conversion that would be in keeping with the standards we are trying to set for the regional Batei Din. Nonetheless, experience also shows that such a motivation can result in converts of the highest caliber. Conversion for the sake of marriage therefore requires the Beit Din to constantly reevaluate if the candidate and future partner are likely to subscribe to the requisite beliefs and practices. The Beit Din must be convinced that if the potential spouse were to disappear from the candidate’s life, his or her commitment to the Jewish faith and people would not waver. These factors inevitably prolong the process and make examination of the prospective convert more intense. Indeed, should the couple mention a proposed wedding date as a deadline or goal, the Beit Din should respond that the process will take significantly longer than that.

5 c. Requirements of Other People in a Candidate’s Life

i. When a candidate is previously intermarried or is converting for the sake of an individual Jew (as per above), the spouse’s observance level and attitudes must be consistent with the present and future Torah observance of the candidate and not be a source of conflict or opposition to the convert’s adopting a halachic lifestyle. The Beit Din should also consider whether other significant individuals in the candidate’s life such as parents, or any existing minor children, will have an impact on the success or failure of the process and the aftermath of conversion.

5d.ii. Intermarried Couples, those living Together, and Single Women.
The requirement for havchana is also relevant when the gentile partner in an intermarriage converts, or where the couple was living with each other outside of wedlock. In such cases, the regional Bet Din should require the couple to separate for at least three months prior to conversion, which is in any event necessary in order for the couple to demonstrate their readiness for a life of full Torah observance. In consultation with the BDA, the regional Beit Din will determine whether any of the leniencies described above apply in any particular case.


=======================

Feb 26, 2008 -- The Rabbinical Council of America, the largest Orthodox rabbinic group in the world, has today announced the establishment of a North American network of rabbinical courts for conversion. The network, established with the enthusiastic agreement of the RCA membership at large, creates uniform standards of Orthodox conversion. The network will benefit genuine converts and their offspring, by facilitating their acceptance in Jewish communities around the world. The courts, a number of which are already functioning in major communities, will involve the active leadership of local rabbis in all phases of the conversion process. The courts will adhere to the protocol for conversion procedures issued some months ago by the RCA.

Key to the success of the network will be the maintenance of permanent and comprehensive databases for future reference, as well as close consultation and cooperation among the various rabbinical courts, rabbinic organizations, and communal leadership groups.

The network of Rabbinical Courts for Conversion under the supervision of the Rabbinical Council of America and its affiliated Beth Din of America is committed to perform conversions in accordance with the highest standards of halachah, and is recognized throughout the Diaspora and in Israel by the Chief Rabbinate.

Eternal Jewish Family Defended

Anonymous from yesterday wrote:

"I find your second question strange. "What is this blog's policy towards Rav Eliashiv" I don't know what you are asking."

******************************

You know exactly what I am asking.

I will copy and paste:

Recipients and Publicity wrote viter, after saying that the MO were out and the Bedatz were out: "And then that leaves Rabbi Reuven Feinstein"

IS RECIPIENTS AND PUBLICITY IMPLYING THAT RAV ELYASHIV IS A KATLA KANYA, NOT EVEN WORTHY OF BEING MENTIONED??!! I POSTED THE ARTICLE WHICH SAID:

"The opening session was held on Sunday at the home of Maran HaRav Eliashiv shlita and attended by a delegation of rabbonim from the conference...HaRav Nochum Eisenstein spoke to the conference detailing the message of Maran HaRav Eliashiv shlita. He said that HaRav Eliashiv went out of his way to express his support for the conference."

AND RAV NOCHUM EISENSTEIN IS STILL RAV ELYASHIV'S MAN ON GERUS ISSUES AND IS STILL HEAVILY INVOLVED IN EJF. WHAT KIND OF A CHUTZPAH IS IT TO IGNORE THE POSEK HADOR??!!

My question is: Why you would repeat "Recipients and publicity"'s comment as a
blog post. As long as it was just his comment in the comments section, my complaints were only against him. But once you present it as a blog post, that puts your prestige behind it. That's why I asked what THIS BLOG'S policy is towards Rav Elyashiv.

*******************************
"Thus I have seen no written evidence that Rav Eliashiv has been fully informed of the activities of EJF or has approved them. "

******************************

This is disingenuous! You know quite well that Rav Eisenstein is Rav Elyashiv's right hand man on all inyanei giyur and that Rav Eisenstein is heavily involved with EJF. If you have any sfeikos, why not give him a call?

While you are at it, why not give Rav Dovid Feinstein a call? I know very well his carefully researched opinion of EJF and it is very far from yours.

Listen, if you want to abide by the Bedatz's shitah and argue it's merits, I have no problem. But don't pretend that there are no serious poskim and gedolei Torah who stand by EJF and appreciate what they are doing. And don't post on your blog questionable material from sources like "Recipients and publicity", This lowers the standard that I think you are trying to maintain here.

[And I just recently saw his comment, presented as a blog post, on Thomas Kaplan. That was momish disgusting, full of innuendo, half-truths and at least a couple outright lies. You can certainly aim higher.]

And takkeh, please ask R' Eisenstein what Rav Elyashiv holds and Rav Dovid Feinstein what he holds. True, their answers won't be written on paper, but last time I checked, we still believed in Torah SheBaal Peh

Alice in Wonderland and Eternal Jewish Family

Anonymous said...

I ASK URGENTLY THAT DR. EIDENSOHN CLARIFY THESE TWO ISSUES: 1) WHERE RAV STERNBUCH STANDS ON THE SHESHES YEMEI BEREISHIS ISSUE, AND 2) WHAT THE POLICY OF THIS BLOG IS TOWARDS RAV ELYASHIV.

According to the Yated's full description of the November 2007 EJF conference. Rav Eisenstein stated, "If there is a dayan who seems eminently qualified but he has false beliefs concerning the belief in the age of the universe - the great gaon Rav Kanievsky shlita has ruled to us that a dayan such as this can not convert people and those who he has converted are in fact not gerim....One can not be a judge if he is wearing perfume..."

Regarding the issue of the age of the universe, Rav Sternbuch has told me that he holds that a belief in the age being greater than 6000 years is kefirah because the majority of gedolim today hold that it is less than 6000 years old. However the person who holds this belief is not himself a heretic because there are sources in chazal and rishonim who support such a belief. He acknowledged to me that he holds like the Ravad.

If Rav Eliashiv holds that a person who holds such a belief is a heretic - then they apparently disagree. However the Yated says Rav Kanievsky was the authority cited for this psak - not Rav Eliashiv.

I find your second question strange. "What is this blog's policy towards Rav Eliashiv" I don't know what you are asking.

Rav Tropper has not produced any letters written by Rav Eliashiv regarding his attitude towards the activities of Eternal Jewish Family. I have previously translated - and posted on this blog - part of a letter written by Rav Efrati regarding Rav Eliashiv's attitude towards intermarried couples. "Maran's characteristic response to intermarried couples is that they should be shunned" The only exception is where the couple mistakenly view themselves as Jewish and not as intermarried.

The Yated's article quotes Rav Eisenstein saying that Rav Eliashiv has ruled that one should not push away intermarried couples when it is clear to us that there will be complete repentance and observance of mitzvos." Note he didn't say pursue. Nor did he say to invite them to free resort vacations and try to persuade them to convert. There is no mention to support EJF's policy of kiruv as described by Rav Tropper himself in his interview with Mishpacha magazine that I have translated earlier on this blog.

Thus I have seen no written evidence that Rav Eliashiv has been fully informed of the activities of EJF or has approved them. I have heard rumors that he was unhappy about the November 2007 convention - but I don't know why.

Thus until EJF conducts itself with greater transparency and until Rav Eliashiv or Rav Reuven Feinstein write clearly reasoned teshuvos regarding the nature of dealing with intermarried couples - there is not much more that can be said.

It is a bit strange being accused of ignoring the unknown and possibly non-existent rulings of a posek concerning procedures which EJF denies doing. When I asked Rav Sternbuch if he knew what Rav Eliashiv held on these issues he said he could not get a clear answer.

All that is clear is that there are people who claim they are following the directives of Rav Eliashiv. I have no idea what these directives are. When I asked Rabbi Tropper if EJF had a manual with halachic guidelines and could I see it, he replied that EJF once had a manual but that they had discontinued it about 2 years ago because there were things in it that were not clear.

If your question is whether I highly respect Rav Eliashiv - the answer is an unequivocal yes. If your question is whether the Bedatz needs to accept everything that Rav Eliashiv says - the answer is an unequivocal no. If your question is when people claim to be strictly following the directives of Rav Eliashiv which they refuse to reveal - must their actions be uncritically accepted - the answer is unequivocally no!

Eternal Jewish Family strikes out?

Recipients and Publicity wrote:

The Present Situation of EJF cannot rely on old articles.

Dear anonymous:

Yes, the link you cite to the page at shemayisrael.com is known but it is not to the point and it shows that your are avoiding the points.

As has been pointed out, that dated article describes events in 2006. It was a year or two after the EJF started and no-one really knew what they were about. Sure who wouldn't want to raise the standard of Halachah in any field? Especially if fancy free conventions invited all takers to come enjoy a weekend or two at the expense of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation.

But, as the dust has settled and controversy upon controversy has erupted about the EJF, under Tom Kaplan's and Rabbi Tropper's guidance, that more and more Rabbonim have lost faith in it, both from the left and the right.

Since 2006, the top Rosh Yeshiva at YU, Rav Hirschel Schechter and with him the RCA and its key Bais Din have dropped out after the EJF invited Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein from the Bais Din LeInyonei Giur in Eretz Yisroel to speak at one of its conventions last year (2007) and he flat-out stated, in the name of Rav Eliashiv supposedly, that rabbis who wear colored clothes or who do not believe in the literal Six Days of Creation are not qualified to be dayanim on a beis din for giur.

Now why he had to drag in such an impolitic point of hashkafa into the situation is not clear (is anyone going to test rabbis to know the truth if they believe the RAMBAM or the Mekubolim were right, or who is the "greater" Godol or Lamdan or Illui or Boki BeShas: Rav J.B. Soloveitchik zt"l or Rav Shach zt"l or maybe Rav Yoel Tetelbaum zt"l? it was not fair of him), but it succceeded in convincing the entire Modern Orthodox movement in America to have nothing to do with the EJF, Rabbi Tropper and of course Rav Eisenstien. Strike one.

Rabbi Tropper tried his hardest to come up with all sorts of excuses but his attempt at being a spinmeister failed and he lost his left flank (because most geirim spend a lot of time with Modern Orthodox shulls and rabbis before moving on, if they ever do.)

Then with the issur the BADATZ has now issued against the EJF, Rabbi Tropper has lost his right wing (he never really had it, but at least they were not against him openly.)

As things stand now that the BADATZ has made it's moves and seems to be that it will continue an active campaign to discredit the EJF as it calls upon Rabbonim to stay clear of EJF, the very ehrliche Charedim will not touch or approve of EJF activities with a ten foot pole. EJF has become toxic, because now the BADATZ has paskened that it's as treif as chazir basically, what else to call it? Strike two.

So what does that leave EJF and Rabbi Tropper? Old articles archived on the Internet? It won't be long (well, Jewish time, it may take longer) before someone tells shemayisrael.com that they are carrying old news and that the BADATZ has already said the EJF should be shunned not praised.

So to look at the EJF's own PRESENT website is very instructional.

It does not have posted any haskomas of any rabbonim on its website! Why? From all those Rabbis in the shemayisrael.com article how many of them have given a clear written haskoma on their own official letterheads stating for all the world to see that they bless and approve of the EJF?

So far EJF has not produced one letter or haskoma, and poor Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn wants them to come up with a "teshuva" yet when they can't even produce a single written haskoma to share with the world. Nor a peeps or a hint on their website or brochures. What are they afraid of? Either they have the goods or not.

You know, if a poor tzedaka collector comes to people's doors, so often they give the poor guy so many hassles to produce a letter from a Rov, and often they are so scared that they flash the letter as you open the door to "farvorn" any embarrassing questions, so kal vachomer an organization that is not just collecting a few dollars from strangers (they don't need to, the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation does it for them) but it's gearing up to organize and collect all the gentiles who wish to convert and channel them en masse to batei din that they have chosen -- do they not need to prove to Klal Yisroel, whom they wish to impress and to gain their confidenece, to come up with at least three letters of support from three really accepted GEDOLIM ? (equivalant to at least three notable and reliable dayonim and greater than the dayanim who lead the 14 batei din cited on the EJF website.)


In fact, can they come up with official letters from those self-same 14 batei din they claim to use who will say on their stationary and signed by each and every member of each beis din that they are 100% behind the EJF effort and approve of all its doings because they have checked things out no less than they would check out any eid (witness) or food for kashrus fitness?

They send mashgichim to the ends of the Earth to see if factories are putting in or keeping out the right chemicals in cans of tuna and that a few dolphins are not snuck into the tuna catch by mistake, how about if they check out with the same zerizus if EJF is putting in and keeping out the right or the wrong gentiles from joining Klal Yisroel as potential geirim, and prove to the world that they have not become the rubber-stamp institutions of a billionare-global and his Rabbi svengali whom they really know nothing about.

In any case, if you read the shemayisrael.com article, it just says that a certain closed group, Rav Reuven Feinstein, Marvin Jacob and Tom Kaplan came to town with Rabbi Tropper. This group works together. They are Rabbi Tropper's people. Yet, pray tell, if Marvin Jacob and Tom Kaplan are so involved in EJF why is there nothing about that on its website? Shouldn't it have a listing of a Borad of Governors?

Aren't the public who cares about this entitled to know who the powers that be are, and not have to run around doing Google searches to learn about Tom Kaplan and his elusive family of entrepreneurs. They are obvioulsy brimming over with new "chaps" (brainwaves) and who knows what they are planning next? To bring back all the Conversos (the many Spanish and Portuguese people who now claim they come from the forcibly converted Morranos of the 1400s and 1500s.) Or maybe they are planning on bringing back the Aseres HaShevatim, the Ten Lost Tribes? as there are organizations doing that as well. Who knows, when you have billions of dollars on tap, time to think big thoughts, your are idealistic, and you want to save not just the Jews but the world and do "Tikkun Olam" (Tom Kaplan has a penchant for devoting plenty of funds to save wild animals too) then anything goes. It's very scary. And that's why the BADATZ says let's end the games now, no ifs, ands, or buts. And the MO's have long stormed out of the room with hurt little egos. Oh well, there goes the best laid schemes of mice and men.

And then that leaves Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, and if he is such a chosid of EJF why can't they post a nice "michtav brocha" or perhaps a real genuine haskoma on his yeshiva's official stationary that states that he approves 100% of EJF etc. But no they can't come up with this either and there is certainly no sign of it on the website when so many blogs have no problem posting all kinds of original documents.

And what about a Va'ad HaRabbonim or an OFFICIAL Rabbinical Board. All such organizations have one. Torah Umesorah (who also have their own in-house Bais Din by the way) publishes its rabbinical board on its letterheads and publications, even though it has no website. Every tzedaka and public mosad has a rabbinical board, and they know they have to come up with that or else, so why is EJF avoiding this obvious requirement? They only have themselves to blame for making the outside world suspicious about them.

One intriguing question that remains is who runs the day to day affairs of EJF? Is is a man or a woman. Are any women involved in making any executive decisions within EJF? We have already been told that Guma what's his name is the son of Tom Kaplan's sister, and that Guma too is active with EJF, so what about Guma's Mom or for that matter Tom Kaplan's wife, who one website about him says that she shares much of his business work. So is she in any way involved with EJF beyond double-signing the checks? This is crucial because a beis din does not accept the testimony of a woman, so that great care needs to be exercised that only Jewish men, ideally talmidei chachomim and not any recent baalei teshuva from Rabbi Tropper's Baal teshuva yeshiva are running errands for him and EJF at the same time, they must be trustworthy known yirei shomyim who should manage the afairs of an organization that wishes to be the "clearing house" for gentiles who wish to convert and guide then to batie din.

Is strike three on the horizon of Horizons? Time will tell.