https://www.thejc.com/judaism/all/why-mental-health-is-an-halachic-issue-3wZrZWQSiJjyGR21r3UgrG
I suffer from both anxiety and depression, and sometimes have suicidal thoughts as well. I find that writing in a journal quiets those thoughts, and helps me deal with my depression and anxiety, but on Shabbat I have a problem, as it is prohibited to write. Is there anything I can do?
Why not just wait until Shabbos is over? You can journal on Friday afternoon and again on Saturday night. No days missed.
ReplyDeleteA) suicidal thoughts are sakkanah
ReplyDeleteB) medicine is also prohibited on shabbes, except when someone is sick.
C) a laptop, on a battery, d'rabbanan according to some opinions, less severe than doraita writing. No psak given by KA.
What about writing on a chalkboard since not permanent? Is that allowed D'orysa?
ReplyDeleteKilling oneself on Shabbos is a violation of the Shabbos as well as a violation of the law against suicide. Suicide involves killing and also possibly causing a wound and bleeding. Using a gun is also a violation of Shabbos.
ReplyDeleteSo, better to violate Shabbos by writing than by self-murder.
But having suicidal thoughts is not the same as being suicidal. Writing to just get rid of suicidal thoughts alone should not be permitted it seems to me.
Great point.
ReplyDeleteUnless the chalk is tochen or grinding melacha.
ReplyDeleteEven though writing on a chalkboard is not permanent, nevertheless, it can till can last a pretty long time, which might be prohibited D'orysa.
ReplyDeleteSee discussion here:
https://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/20615
Writing, when it is written with a permanent ink or dye on a surface that will hold the writing permanently is prohibited on Shabbos min haTorah. If the writing will not last permanently, the prohibition to write or to erase is only miderabbanan.
WHAT IS CONSIDERED PERMANENT WRITING?
Some poskim contend that writing is permanent if it will last until after Shabbos (Rambam and Magid Mishnah, Hilchos Shabbos 9:13). Others contend that it is considered permanent if it lasts the length of time people usually write notes (Rashba, Shabbos 115b, cited by Bi’ur Halacha 340:4, s.v. Bemashkin). According to both opinions, writing that disappears after a few hours is prohibited only miderabbanan.
Anything with computers is pretty much d'rabannon in medical halakha.
ReplyDeleteHow about meds on shabbat? The issur is enough to make one a follower of
ReplyDeleteha Meiri!
Any meds that must be taken on a routine basis and at specific times are exempt from the prohibition.
ReplyDeleteHaMeiri said that when circumstances change, a rabbinic Gezeira self-annuls. This is different from Rambam, who said you need a court which is greater in numbers and wisdom than the one who promulgated the gezeiro.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of the gezeiro was so we don't grind herbs on Shabbat, not to injure our health.
Especially if the medicines are needed for maintaining mental health, and to prevent them from suicidal tendencies.
ReplyDeleteand what if it is necessary to grind herbs for this purpose?
ReplyDeleteWhy couldn't these herbs be ground and prepared before Shabbos?
ReplyDeletewould they be allowed if they were pre-ground?
ReplyDeleteThey could and you could also say that various companies make tons of acetaminophen so my taking 2 on Shabbos morning will not affect their production schedule at all. The worry with the original gzeirah is that if pre-ground herbs were permitted you might come to grind more on Shabbos if you ran out.
ReplyDeleteThat is correct. However the gzeirah does not apply to cases of illness. Therefore if these medicines are needed for maintaining mental health, or are needed to prevent the patient from suicidal tendencies, the gzeriah does not apply.
ReplyDeleteWhich types of medicines are you referring to, and why are they being taken?
ReplyDeleteI am asking in general, regarding the gezeira. The gezeira was against grinding of herbs. Thus, if the meds are pre-prepared, then the gezeira's original boundaries would not be relevant today. Example, taking an aspirin or acamol for a headache
ReplyDeleteTorah thought this week’s parsha Chukkas זאת חקת התורה
ReplyDeleteIt’s now the end of the 40 years, after the death of Miriam, the sin of Moses and Aaron, Edom refuses permission to pass through, death of Aaron, the Brazen Serpent, battle with Canaanites: “Therefore the Book of the Wars of the Lord speaks of...Vaheb in Suphah, and the wadis: Arnon with its tributary wadis stretched along the settled country of Ar, hugging the territory of
Moab....” (Numbers 21:14-15).
במדבר פרשת חקת פרק כא פסוק יד - טז
(יד) עַל כֵּן יֵאָמַר בְּסֵפֶר מִלְחֲמֹת יְקֹוָק אֶת וָהֵב בְּסוּפָה וְאֶת הַנְּחָלִים אַרְנוֹן:
(טו) וְאֶשֶׁד הַנְּחָלִים אֲשֶׁר נָטָה לְשֶׁבֶת עָר וְנִשְׁעַן לִגְבוּל מוֹאָב:
מדרש אגדה (בובר) במדבר פרשת חקת פרק כא פסוק יד
על כן יאמר בספר מלחמת ה'. זה ספר ואלה שמות, שבו כתוב המלחמה שעשה הקדוש ברוך הוא עם מצרים, והמלחמה שעל הים, שנאמר ה' ילחם לכם ואתם תחרישון (שמות י"ד י"ד), זו מלחמת הים, כי ה' נלחם להם במצרים (שם שם כ"ה), זו מלחמת מצרים, מה כתיב שם, כמו שעשה להם הקדוש ברוך הוא על ים סוף, שנאמר עד יעבור עמך ה' עד יעבור עם זו קנית (שמות ט"ו ט"ז). עד יעבור נחלי ארנון עד יעבור את הירדן, לכך נאמר את והב בסופה, את אשר יהב בסוף כן יעשה בנחלי ארנון,
Soncino Zohar, Shemoth, Section 2,Page 56a
Where now is this book of the wars of the Lord? What is meant is, of course, the Torah, for, as the members of the Fellowship have pointed out, he who is engaged in the battle of the Torah, struggling to penetrate into her mysteries, will wrest from his struggles an abundance of peace. All other wars involve strife and destruction, but the war of the Torah is one of peace and love: Vaheb in Supha may be read ahabah be-sophah, love is in her end, for there is no love nor peace like this. The word book is used, and not torah as we might expect, for an esoteric reason, viz. that there is a Divine sphere called Book, as it says: Seek ye out of the book of the Lord and read (Isa. XXXIV, 16), on which all the mighty works of the Lord depend and from which they emanate. With this, God made war against a certain sphere at the end (soph) of the grades called Vaheb. God also fought against the brooks, the subsidiary principalities attached to it. He waged war from the region called Arnon, which is the sphere of the supernal marital union [Tn. note: Hokmah and Binah.] which is never dissolved. Therein it is rooted and spreads its branches to make war on every side and to manifest great and glorious power. When the mighty works of the Lord are roused and His battles begin to be waged, how many celestial warriors are stirred up to do martial deeds on every side! Then swords and spears are whetted, and mighty deeds begin. The sea grows stormy and the waves thereof rise mightily, and the boats toss on the heaving waters. Then the fray commences with catapults, spears, swords, and arrows, and the Lord takes command of His hosts to conduct the battle. Woe unto those against whom the Holy One declares war! The Lord is a man of war.
Beautiful. I live in Bnei Brak. I go to daf hayomi. I am engaged in the war of the Torah: Zohar says: Where now is this book of the wars of the Lord? What is meant is, of course, the Torah, for, as the members of the Fellowship have pointed out, he who is engaged in the battle of the Torah, struggling to penetrate into her mysteries, will wrest from his struggles an abundance of peace. All other wars involve strife and destruction, but the war of the Torah is one of peace and love.
It's tricky. The gezera was not to take meds because it might lead to grinding because that's how meds were made back them. The Nishmat Avraham says the gezerah was very specific - no meds, so even though today we don't grind our meds, the decree stands.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly though he mentions "alternative health practitioners" and their "natural meds", many of which they prepare by grinding and maybe there's a fear that if we allow meds, someone with a naturopath will go to him on Shabbos and ask for a fresh batch.
That's why I like HaMeiri - he says , having analysed all the soruces, that once the circumstances for a gezeira have changed, it just falls away by itself, don't even need Rambam's notion of a a BD greater in widsom and numbers (which Raavad disagrees with anyway).
ReplyDeleteWhat is the point of saing no meds, and then saying oh, but if you are sick, the you can take them? Is it aimed at prescription junkies who take meds when they are not sick?
Wonderful way of poskening - \ignore all the authorities that don't agree with you - even if they are accepted
ReplyDeleteWhat does it mean that "I like the Meiri"? just another way of cherry picking sources
Normal scholarship is to first find out what the sources say - not to look for sources you like
No, it means I like the Meiri. He addresses a problem created , which everyone else is trying to dance around, but do not solve. Why can't I like the meiri, much the same way as many people like Rav Chaim? Others like the Chazon Ish, or the Lubavitcher rebbe.
ReplyDeleteThe Ramchal , as I may have mentioned a few years back, says that we judge a statement becasue it appeals to our intellect, not because of who said it.
There are ways of thinking, and paskening is not the same as thinking or liking, it is something that only a few experts can do.
So why is someone who says I like this part of the Torah is an apikores?
ReplyDeleteSo is aseh lecha rav also apikorsus?
ReplyDeleteSaying that part of the Chumash is more Holy than another part, is problematic according to the rambam.
ReplyDeleteRamchal is discussing learning different rabbinical statements or arguments.
Some people become breslov, and follow their Rebbe. Others prefer satmar, or brisk or rav kook, Ben ish chai etc.
You are the first rabbi who has "discouraged" me from learning and deriving simcha from it, or at least vocalising that simcha. (Norman lamm said that rav Chaim volozhiner took this approach, that a rav should not derive pleasure in this world from his esek bTorah).
Is that halacha?
Ramchal in Derech tevunot, his guide to learning Talmud, at the end of the first chapter, states that we decide problems not based on the personage behind the statement, but the statement itself. Ramchal was a rationalist, even in his mysticism.
ReplyDeleteThe way you present things, seems to this reader to be the reverse - i.e. the personage determines the true halacha, not the actual statement.
was the gezeirah purely to avoid grinding on Shabbat?
ReplyDeleteOr was there a larger purpose, eg to be less dependent on medicines for healing, to have greater emunah in Hashem , and to make shabbat a more holy day by less involvement with the physical?