"The Rambam (Hilchos Rotzeiach 1:6) writes that if a person is chasing after another to kill him, all of Klal Yisrael is obligated to save the one being chased, even if it requires killing the chaser (the rodef). In halacha 15, the Rambam writes that one who has the ability to save another person from a rodef and does not transgresses a mitzvas assei and two lo saassei. And these aveiros are very serious, for one who squanders the life of a Jew is comparable to having destroyed the entire world, and one who saves the life of another Jew is comparable to having saved the entire world!
Rav Chaim Soloveitchik, zt”l, in his sefer on the Rambam, explains that in order to kill a rodef two factors must be present. First, there must be a necessity to save the life of the one being chased. This is a unique halacha similar to that of pikuach nefesh (but not the regular halacha that anything is permitted for the sake of pikuach nefesh). Second, when one is chasing another person the Torah imposes a punishment that he may be killed. In order to kill a Jew who is trying to kill another Jew these two requirements must be met: the life of the chased will be saved and the chaser can be held responsible."
If they had intel, then they knew of a plot. in any case, there were many previous attacks by Soleimani proxies against US and UK soldiers, who were killed, thus, as King, he also has the duty of nekama. If he had intel that there was a further plot around the corner, it is justified to rise up and stop Soleimani.
… systems engineers have become rather blasé about the imminent liftoff.— Steven L. Thompson —often used of something bad or dangerous seen as menacingly nearimminent disasterLike books, board games appear headed for imminent demise at the hands of cathode-ray terminals.— Will Manley
The Intel is in the pudding! When Pinchas ben Elazar carried around "Vehaisha el kavasa", on the chod hachanis, hakol yodim... When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, they got the Pudding blasted over their heads, vehakol yodim... When Slimemiani got one over his head *at the airport in Iraq*, the pudding itself was on smoke, vehakol yodim! Good riddance. He was menacing the world with his every breath, past, present and future, any place, any time, at any moment. Need we say more. I would like to know what was in the coffin they paraded around with, and why was it wrapped around sealed with plastic. Can it the roasted pudding? Message to Pelosi: Halonu o letzorenu at? Are you with us, or against us? The enemy from within
There is a bigger picture that you are missing. The time for Iran getting regime change has come. If they get nukes, they will use them, and threaten Israel with them. You don't seem to understand their pernicious ideology, that they want to spread Islam everywhere.
warfare, intelligence, covert ops etc. are not the same as writing a Get, that they have to follow exacting procedures , fast in between each step, etc. There is subterfuge, window of opportunity, strategy, etc etc. If they give the details beforehand, some may leak it to blow the cover.
Regarding America, it remains a world power, unlike Canada, who have no real power, not even manpower, that they are being gradually taken over as they allwo in muslims in their millions.
When US got the intelligence report of this Sulami landing in Iraq, they got intelligence for the purpose of his visit. If they tell you all the details, you can compromise the source and behead the guy. We must understand that not everything can be publicized. This guy was nothing but trouble, and constant trouble, of which for all practical purposes is constantly imminent. Do you think he hid an olive branch in his pocket? Salami must have had to understand that he was off limits in Iraq, vedomo berosho! Although Japan got one over it's head the DAY AFTER Pearl Harbor, he became a sought out fugitive, vedomom beroshom. Shivim ponim lemilchama, vechol hakodem zocho. Yodom bakol, veyad kol odom bo. What goes around comes around.
When they blew 176 innocent people out of the sky, at first it was mechanical failure, then set off limits before giving access cleaning up any evidence, the recorders were supposedly damaged, until they came down with human error. Do you believe them? I don't! I rest my case.
There is a difference here that when you have an opening on taking out a high level terrorist, you can't just wait to inform all sorts of people about it first. They didn't inform congress to take out bin laden or al bagdadi, they had to act on the time sensitive intel. Even if soleimani's imminent planned attacks would have left a window to tell congress about them, his known whereabouts and susceptibility to a strike may NOT have left any such window. It seems like you have some kind of mania that Trump is this reckless cowboy and that by killing terrorists it makes everyone in Israel more vulnerable to attack. Calm down. Israel has taken out its own fair share of terrorist leaders over the years. The islamo nazis promised revenge for Mughniyeh too... And all those others... You shouldn't doubt that terrorists are plotting attacks and war against Israel every day. Iran does this through its proxies and likewise plans for an ultimate showdown with Israel of its own to bring about its awaited mahdi. It's not going to change if Trump makes them mad, nor if he bribes them to be happier.
As for "trump is the rodef," that takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics and seems like a real bastardization of the concept. Your whole premise of "caused greater danger" is a philosophical speculation. Obviously any military taking action to protect and defend its citizens takes into account the question of nearterm vs. longterm strategic necessity. Otherwise the Neville Chamberlain style policy of appeasement would by default always be ideal (and obligatory) because any military action and any dealing with a threat by default "creates more danger" since the source of the threat won't like what you do. But we obviously know this cannot be true, and therefore the equation you are presenting is flawed.
Bolton may even testify against Trump. The winds of War are blowing .they are focusing on the single incident but part of a bigger picture trump has adopted bolton's ideology belatedly
So unless time and date are given, law of rodef isn't valid?
ReplyDeleteWHY ARE YOU MAKING UP THE PARAMETERS OF RODEF?
ReplyDelete"The Rambam (Hilchos Rotzeiach 1:6) writes that if a person is chasing after another to kill him, all of Klal Yisrael is obligated to save the one being chased, even if it requires killing the chaser (the rodef). In halacha 15, the Rambam writes that one who has the ability to save another person from a rodef and does not transgresses a mitzvas assei and two lo saassei. And these aveiros
ReplyDeleteare very serious, for one who squanders the life of a Jew is comparable
to having destroyed the entire world, and one who saves the life of
another Jew is comparable to having saved the entire world!
Rav Chaim Soloveitchik, zt”l, in his sefer on the Rambam, explains that in order to kill a rodef two factors must be present. First, there must be a necessity to save the life of the one being chased. This is a unique halacha similar to that of pikuach nefesh (but not the regular halacha that anything is permitted for the sake of pikuach nefesh).
Second, when one is chasing another person the Torah imposes a
punishment that he may be killed. In order to kill a Jew who is trying
to kill another Jew these two requirements must be met: the life of the
chased will be saved and the chaser can be held responsible."
If they had intel, then they knew of a plot. in any case, there were many previous attacks by Soleimani proxies against US and UK soldiers, who were killed, thus, as King, he also has the duty of nekama. If he had intel that there was a further plot around the corner, it is justified to rise up and stop Soleimani.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEY INTEL TO SUPPORT YOUR CONCERNS
ReplyDeleteIN ADDITION IF THE ASSASSINATION CAUSED GREATER DANGER THEN TRUMP IS THE RODEF
Merriam -Webster definition:
ReplyDeleteimminent adjective
im·mi·nent | \ ˈi-mə-nənt
\
Definition of imminent
: ready to take place : happening soon
… systems engineers have become rather blasé about the imminent liftoff.— Steven L. Thompson —often used of something bad or dangerous seen as menacingly nearimminent disasterLike books, board games appear headed for imminent demise at the hands of cathode-ray terminals.— Will Manley
The Intel is in the pudding!
ReplyDeleteWhen Pinchas ben Elazar carried around "Vehaisha el kavasa", on the chod hachanis, hakol yodim... When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, they got the Pudding blasted over their heads, vehakol yodim... When Slimemiani got one over his head *at the airport in Iraq*, the pudding itself was on smoke, vehakol yodim! Good riddance. He was menacing the world with his every breath, past, present and future, any place, any time, at any moment. Need we say more. I would like to know what was in the coffin they paraded around with, and why was it wrapped around sealed with plastic. Can it the roasted pudding?
Message to Pelosi:
Halonu o letzorenu at? Are you with us, or against us?
The enemy from within
that is not the way the constitution says to act
ReplyDeleteNot all the Intel is for public consumption. War strategy is clandestine.
ReplyDeleteThere is a bigger picture that you are missing. The time for Iran getting regime change has come. If they get nukes, they will use them, and threaten Israel with them.
ReplyDeleteYou don't seem to understand their pernicious ideology, that they want to spread Islam everywhere.
you seem to not knew the biggest voice for regime change was Bolton - and Trump fired him
ReplyDeleteFalse/correct/correct
ReplyDeleteI did know/Bolton was right/ Trump is doing teshuva.
even according to your definition - there was no evidence of imminent attack
ReplyDeletei.e. they didnt have time to notify congress
https://www.newsweek.com/trumps-defense-secretary-says-irans-soleimani-was-probably-planning-us-embassy-attacks-he-1481721
this was clearly different then pearl harbor
ReplyDeletehttps://www.newsweek.com/trumps-defense-secretary-says-irans-soleimani-was-probably-planning-us-embassy-attacks-he-1481721
warfare, intelligence, covert ops etc. are not the same as writing a Get, that they have to follow exacting procedures , fast in between each step, etc. There is subterfuge, window of opportunity, strategy, etc etc. If they give the details beforehand, some may leak it to blow the cover.
ReplyDeleteRegarding America, it remains a world power, unlike Canada, who have no real power, not even manpower, that they are being gradually taken over as they allwo in muslims in their millions.
When US got the intelligence report of this Sulami landing in Iraq, they got intelligence for the purpose of his visit. If they tell you all the details, you can compromise the source and behead the guy. We must understand that not everything can be publicized. This guy was nothing but trouble, and constant trouble, of which for all practical purposes is constantly imminent. Do you think he hid an olive branch in his pocket? Salami must have had to understand that he was off limits in Iraq, vedomo berosho! Although Japan got one over it's head the DAY AFTER Pearl Harbor, he became a sought out fugitive, vedomom beroshom. Shivim ponim lemilchama, vechol hakodem zocho. Yodom bakol, veyad kol odom bo. What goes around comes around.
ReplyDeleteWhen they blew 176 innocent people out of the sky, at first it was mechanical failure, then set off limits before giving access cleaning up any evidence, the recorders were supposedly damaged, until they came down with human error. Do you believe them? I don't! I rest my case.
trump didn't say that he simply said attack was imminent and there wasn't time to consult
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference here that when you have an opening on taking out a high level terrorist, you can't just wait to inform all sorts of people about it first. They didn't inform congress to take out bin laden or al bagdadi, they had to act on the time sensitive intel. Even if soleimani's imminent planned attacks would have left a window to tell congress about them, his known whereabouts and susceptibility to a strike may NOT have left any such window. It seems like you have some kind of mania that Trump is this reckless cowboy and that by killing terrorists it makes everyone in Israel more vulnerable to attack. Calm down. Israel has taken out its own fair share of terrorist leaders over the years. The islamo nazis promised revenge for Mughniyeh too... And all those others...
ReplyDeleteYou shouldn't doubt that terrorists are plotting attacks and war against Israel every day. Iran does this through its proxies and likewise plans for an ultimate showdown with Israel of its own to bring about its awaited mahdi. It's not going to change if Trump makes them mad, nor if he bribes them to be happier.
Dan Crenshaw doesn't agree with your assessment of the intel, DT.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status/1216459249062240257
As for "trump is the rodef," that takes quite a bit of mental gymnastics and seems like a real bastardization of the concept. Your whole premise of "caused greater danger" is a philosophical speculation.
Obviously any military taking action to protect and defend its citizens takes into account the question of nearterm vs. longterm strategic necessity. Otherwise the Neville Chamberlain style policy of appeasement would by default always be ideal (and obligatory) because any military action and any dealing with a threat by default "creates more danger" since the source of the threat won't like what you do. But we obviously know this cannot be true, and therefore the equation you are presenting is flawed.
Bolton may even testify against Trump.
ReplyDeleteThe winds of War are blowing .they are focusing on the single incident but part of a bigger picture trump has adopted bolton's ideology belatedly