Tuesday, September 19, 2017

really!


25 comments :

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  2. Torah thought. We read on Rosh Hashana:
    “This happened year after year: Every time she went up to the House of the Lord, the other would taunt her, so that she wept and would not eat. Her husband Elkanah said to her, “Hannah, why are you crying
    and why aren’t you eating? Why are you so sad? Am I not more devoted to you than ten sons?” After they had eaten and drunk at Shiloh, Hannah rose.—The priest Eli was sitting on the seat near the doorpost of the temple of the Lord. (1 Samuel 1:7-9).

    We see Hannah crying and not eating, crying and not eating. Her husband, Elkanah, says to her “Hannah, why are you crying and why aren’t you eating?” Hannah immediately stopped her crying and started eating. Moral: Hannah is the good wife who does the will of her husband. She honors her husband’s wishes. Hannah is an honored and respected sage. See her poem she wrote:

    “And Hannah prayed: My heart exults in the Lord; I have triumphed through the Lord. I gloat over my enemies; I rejoice in Your deliverance. There is no holy one like the Lord, Truly, there is none beside You;
    There is no rock like our God. Talk no more with lofty pride, Let no arrogance cross your lips! For the Lord is an all-knowing God; By Him actions are measured. The bows of the mighty are broken,
    And the faltering are girded with strength. Men once sated must hire out for bread; Men once hungry hunger no more. While the barren woman bears seven, The mother of many is forlorn.
    The Lord deals death and gives life, Casts down into Sheol and raises up. The Lord makes poor and makes rich; He casts down, He also lifts high. He raises the poor from the dust, Lifts up the needy from the dunghill,
    Setting them with nobles, Granting them seats of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s; He has set the world upon them. He guards the steps of His faithful, But the wicked perish in darkness—
    For not by strength shall man prevail. The foes of the Lord shall be shattered; He will thunder against them in the heavens. The Lord will judge the ends of the earth. He will give power to His king, And triumph to His anointed one.” (1 Samuel 2:1-10)

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  3. Two years ago I predicted that Kaminetsky would ride out the storm and survive...and people laughed at me.

    I think it is pretty clear that unfortunately he won.

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  4. Maybe they anticipated that reaction. And that's why poster is shrouded in plastic.

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  5. See on Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky
    http://www.sfjny.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=646:leiby-kletzky-murder-reignites-fight-over-reporting-abuse&catid=2:news&Itemid=57
    “At the event, Kamenetsky reiterated the widespread Orthodox belief that Jews must consult a rabbi before reporting abuse to the authorities. Victims should report crimes only "after you bring it to a rav [rabbi]," Kamenetsky said in a recording posted on the Failed Messiah blog. If they do not consult a rabbi, many strictly Orthodox Jews fear they will violate the law of mesirah, the prohibition against informing on a fellow Jew to secular authorities. However, law-enforcement officials and victims' advocates have warned for some time that rabbinic interference in reporting abuse, puts young lives at risk. In a number of well-documented cases, rabbis have failed to report abusers to the authorities. Law-enforcement officials also warn that seeking advice from a rabbi causes delays that could harm a police investigation.”
    What should victims do---go for help to a rabbi or go to the secular authorities? Victims should do all possible to protect themselves, first and foremost, that includes going to secular authorities, fast. Rabbis and outsiders must help victims, especially in life threatening situations, with strong and fast help. Especially in dealing with fierce vile criminal characters seeking illegal money---victims must run to the police. A dispute that’s not true life threatening, such as Tamar wants a get from her husband, Aharon, and Aharon refuses her---I apply “A passerby who gets embroiled in someone else’s quarrel Is like one who seizes a dog by its ears” (Proverbs 26:17).

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  6. Welovetruth says:
    “I think it is pretty clear that unfortunately he won.”
    No. Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky wins only if shows that Tamar was in a true life-threatening situation or if she faced a true fierce vile criminal character, Aharon, seeking illegal money. Same as Susan wins in Susan vs Gerald only if she shows that she was in a true life-threatening situation or if she faced a true fierce vile criminal character, me her husband, seeking illegal money.
    Wikipedia:
    Gerald Phillip "Gerry" Garson (born August 3, 1932) is a former New York Supreme Court Justice who heard matrimonial divorce and child custody cases in Brooklyn. He was convicted in 2007 of accepting bribes to manipulate the outcomes of divorce proceedings. Garson was imprisoned from June 2007 until December 2009.

    In the bribery scheme, a "fixer" told people divorcing in Brooklyn that for a price he could steer their case to a sympathetic judge. After the fixer received a payment, he would refer the person to a lawyer contact of his, who had given Garson drinks, meals, cigars, and cash—accepting (and receiving) preferential treatment in return. The fixer and the lawyer would then bribe court employees to override the court's computer system, which was programmed to ensure that cases were assigned to judges randomly. Instead, they would have the case assigned to Garson. Garson, in turn, would then privately coach the lawyer. He would tell him questions the lawyer should ask of witnesses in the case before Garson, and arguments that the lawyer should make to Garson in court. Garson would then rule in favor of the lawyer.

    Garson was indicted in 2003, on the basis of video surveillance of his judicial chambers, and recordings made on a body wire worn by his "favored" lawyer. At his four-week trial in 2007, he was acquitted on four counts, but found guilty on one count of accepting bribes, and on two lesser charges of receiving rewards for official misconduct. He was sentenced in June 2007 to three to ten years in prison. In December 2009, after 30 months in prison, he was released for good behavior at the age of 77.

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  7. Whoever put up the poster seems to have anticipated that reaction. The poster has a protective plastic covering....

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  8. Respectfully disagree. This summer I handed out flyers in the community here detailing what role Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky played in regard to Tamar Epstein entering the status of being a Halachic adulteress.

    Some people were unaware of this and became aware. Others were aware and did not want it publicized. Not a single person denied it.

    How you can define that as victory?

    I interacted with many people. I was handing out the flyer five nights a week for weeks. I interacted with people in the community.

    One Rav, visiting from another city, put it this way to me: Rabbi Kamenetsky made a mistake. But because he is a "Gadol" I shouldn't call him a Rasha.

    So, yes, there are those who hold that once someone like Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky achieves "Gadol" status, that the "Gadol" is beyond reproach. But that is not a win for Rabbi Kamenetsky. That is a win for misguided thinking.

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  9. Can you post the flyer here please.

    As far as what that rav said, The Satmar Rav Z'L said that Dasan and Avirom were Gedoilim (wore white bekitches, to use his terminology, meaning they were people of high esteem), because it must be so, because otherwise nobody would have taken any notice of them. But yet, The Torah calls them resha'im.

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  10. Joseph Orlow says “Rabbi Kamenetsky made a mistake. But because he is a "Gadol" I shouldn't call him a Rasha.”
    Wikipedia
    “Shmuel Kamenetsky (born November 1924) is a Haredi rabbi and founder and rosh yeshiva (dean) of the Talmudical Yeshiva of Philadelphia…Kamenetsky was a primary student of Rabbi Aharon Kotler, from whom he received semicha (rabbinic ordination). Prior to studying in Kotler's Lakewood Yeshiva, Kamenetsky learned in Ner Israel Rabbinical College under the tutelage of his father's cousin, Rabbi Yaakov Yitzchok Ruderman, and prior to that, Kamenetsky attended Eitz Chaim Day Schools in Toronto. In the mid-1950s, as part of the Lakewood Yeshiva's effort to establish out-of-town yeshivas, Kamenetsky and Rabbi Dov Schwartzman were sent to found the Talmudical Yeshiva of Philadelphia….Kamenetsky is a member of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of Agudath Israel of America and serves on the rabbinical board of many organizations, including Chinuch Atzmai (Torah Schools for Israel), Torah Umesorah, the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation and the Association for Jewish Outreach Professionals (AJOP). His opinion is frequently sought and quoted on current issues such as same-sex attraction, child molestation, obesity and dieting, smoking, and drinking alcohol to excess on Purim. His approbation is also sought for Torah books in English.”
    Mendel Epstein did kangaroo court rulings which got him a 10 year jail sentence---coaching the angry women what to do, how to present their case, not meeting with the husbands etc,

    A kangaroo court is a sham court---not a real professional court. One might say that a kangaroo court is with a rogue, scoundrel, criminal acting as judge looking for money for himself. Wikipedia:

    A kangaroo court is a judicial tribunal or assembly that ignores recognized standards of law or justice, and often carries little or no official standing in the territory within which it resides. The term may also apply to a court held by a legitimate judicial authority who intentionally disregards the court's legal or ethical obligations.
    K-G did not just make a mistake. They ran a kangaroo court. A mistake implies a wrong understanding, an error. Maybe the error is with us and not K-G? Who can say? K-G decided to permit Tamar to remarry though her husband, Aharon, refuses her a get. K-G did it in such a way that it would be difficult to appeal the K-G ruling. We must attack K-G that they ran a kangaroo court. They didn’t follow legitimate judicial authority and disregarded legal and ethical obligations.

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  11. We must focus on the fake licensed psychologist report that speaks bad of Aharon, without meeting Aharon. This is hard evidence that K-G are offenders, intervening to Aharon’s detriment, in a kangaroo court using their status to silence opposition. Surely, K-G never showed it to anyone. If K ever showed the supposed report to anyone, if we had a copy of it, or if we have witnesses who saw it, that would prove that K-G are wicked. “When he went out the next day, he found two Hebrews fighting; so he said to the offender, “Why do you strike your fellow?” (Exodus 2:13)
    שמות פרק ב פסוק יג
    וַיֵּצֵא בַּיּוֹם הַשֵּׁנִי וְהִנֵּה שְׁנֵי אֲנָשִׁים עִבְרִים נִצִּים וַיֹּאמֶר לָרָשָׁע לָמָּה תַכֶּה רֵעֶךָ:
    רש"י שמות פרשת שמות פרק ב פסוק יג
    שני אנשים עברים - דתן ואבירםט הם שהותירו מן המן:
    נצים - מריבים:
    למה תכה - אף על פי שלא הכהו,י נקרא רשע בהרמת יד:
    רעך - רשעכ כמותך

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  12. I can't post the flyer here.

    I'll explain.

    I got a lot of pushback. Someone partially burned the flyer and taped it to my front door. I was also getting anonymous email threats.

    Just to be on the safe side, I had one of my lawyers go over the flyer to make sure it was protected free speech. The lawyer in turn showed the flyer to a colleague. They concluded that I could theoretically be sued for what I was distributing.

    Turns out there was a case where a newpaper wrote an article about a woman that revealed details of her past. Amazingly, she won a lawsuit against the newspaper. Although this case seems to stifle free speech, it's still on the books.

    In the flyer I say Tamar Epstein is an adulteress, and it was Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, with others, who engineered the whole thing.

    So besides opening myself to a lawsuit by revealing to the public that she is an adulteress, I was also told that by using the word "adulteress" alone that I could be sued because technically she is not an adulteress under U.S. civil law, being that she has a civil divorce.

    Basically, the flyer hammered home that Rabbi Shmuel Kenetsky is a Rasha and I went further and said it is a Mitzvah to publicize that Tamar Epstein is a [Halachic] adulteress.

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  13. Joseph Orlow says:
    “In the flyer I say Tamar Epstein is an adulteress, and it was Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, with others, who engineered the whole thing.”
    The focus has to be on the crimes Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, with others, did to engineer the whole thing. Take Mendel Epstein:
    Wikipedia
    “It was in this grey area of halakha that in the mid-1980s a rabbi from Brooklyn, New York, Mendel Epstein, began to advocate for women seeking religious divorces from their husbands. Dubbed "The Prodfather" by the press due to his boast of using a cattle prod against his victims, Epstein started a divorce-gang which coerced these men to give the gets through the use of violence. Although U.S. laws prohibit kidnapping, assault, and torture, some rabbis have gone on record anonymously to sanction these otherwise "inhumane" acts against "angry husbands." If a man got so scared from this treatment as to suffer a heart attack, Epstein would instruct his gang to "Take a right turn and let him die." In 1991, men's rights activist Monty Weinstein staged a protest with 25 people outside Epstein's home, with some carrying signs that read "Stop Mendel Epstein!"”
    Whew b”h, I made aliya 1991 and divorced Susan on her initiative 2/17/1993. Mendel Epstein still has wide support from leading rabbis. Mendel Epstein main crimes are all the illegal physical assaults he did. Shmuel Kamenetsky also has wide support from leading rabbis. Shmuel Kamenetsky fake/phony licensed psychologist report is a crime. That makes him a criminal. When can a rabbi do criminal acts? To save a life and similar, but not for donations from admirers. Mendel Epstein got $60,000 donation to his shul/yeshiva to physically assault the good Aharon who was just visiting his baby. How are the donations to Shmuel Kamenetsky??

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  14. What purpose does this post serve other than venting your anger? What practical result comes from it?

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  15. Unfortunately, his name is a source of pride and honor, and not at all shame...

    Our children will be taught to revere this midget, and only very knowledgeable people will remember this incident or care...

    WORST OF ALL, in the future when someone makes a grave mistake, instead of doing T'shuvah, he is likely to just take a cue from the successful Kamintsky rehabilitation, and wage a PR blitzkrieg...

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  16. To remind us to persevere in the eradication of corruption from our midst, never become complacent to the perverse.

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  17. Torah thought. Wikipedia:
    “On the afternoon before Yom Kippur, one prepares an item to be donated to the poor for consumption at the pre-Yom Kippur meal, recites the two biblical passages of Psalms 107:17-20 and Job 33:23-24, and then swings the prepared charitable donation over one's head three times while reciting a short prayer three times.”
    “He comes close to the Pit, His life [verges] on death. If he has a representative [angel], One advocate against a thousand To declare the man’s uprightness, Then He has mercy on him and decrees, “Redeem him from descending to the Pit, For I have obtained his ransom; Let his flesh be healthier than in his youth; Let him return to his younger days.” He prays to God and is accepted by Him; He enters His presence with shouts of joy, For He requites a man for his righteousness. He declares to men, “I have sinned; I have perverted what was right; But I was not paid back for it.” He redeemed him from passing into the Pit; He will enjoy the light. Truly, God does all these things Two or three times to a man, To bring him back from the Pit, That he may bask in the light of life.” (Job33:22-30).
    איוב פרק לג פסוק כג
    אִם יֵשׁ עָלָיו מַלְאָךְ מֵלִיץ אֶחָד מִנִּי אָלֶף לְהַגִּיד לְאָדָם יָשְׁרוֹ:
    רש"י איוב פרק לג פסוק כג
    אחד מני אלף - במגידי פשעו והוא יליץ ישרו:
    מלבי"ם איוב פרק לג פסוק כג
    אם יש, אז יש לו תקנה להנצל מן המות באחד מג' פנים, א] ע"י זכיות, אם יש עליו מלאך, אם נמצא לו בעצמו זכות ע"י מעשיו הקודמים שעשה איזה מצוה שראוי שינצל בעבורה ממות, והזכות הזה קורא מלאך, כי הוא ילך במלאכות ושליחות ללמד זכות עליו, ואם המלאך הזה מליץ אחד מני אלף, ר"ל שהמצות שהזמין ה' לפני האדם שהם ימליצו עליו טובות הם כמה אלפים, ואם מן האלף מליצים וזכיות שהכין ה' אל האדם לזכות בהם ימליץ המלאך אחד מהם (ר"ל הגם שקיים רק מצוה אחת ממצות ה' הרבים מאד), והמלאך ימליץ להגיד לאדם הזה החולה את ישרו וזכות שלו, עי"כ.
    The Malbim explains on “If he has a representative [angel], One advocate against a thousand To declare the man’s uprightness,” a person has 3 ways to remedy to save himself from death:1) rights 2) if he has an angel 3) he himself finds a merit a good deed worthy of saving him from death. The good deed is called an angel...

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  18. I agree with your first point.

    As for the last point, I do think that the fallout will serve as a deterrent to do certain things. True, he never issued a public apology. But the attitude that got him there in the first place is not there by him anymore, and others have taken note. People do not have the attitude anyone that they can do as they see fit, without truly thinking through the process. The idea that they can play around with the Torah is no more - to an extent.

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  19. "Venting anger"? What's that all about? The issue being addressed here is "integrity", not "anger".

    The established facts are that Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky acted in a way inconsistent with Halacha.

    And we're not speaking here of a Machlokes in Halacha. We're speaking of what seems to be a case where it is universally accepted that Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky violated the Halacha. Who does not acknowledge at this point that he violated the Halacha?

    Yet Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky is still a member in good standing of the leadership of Agudath Israel. More, he's apparently treated as the head of that leadership. Many seem to consider him the greatest Gadol in America.

    Do you fail to see the disconnect? Are you not motivated, L'shem Shamayim, to correct the matter?

    If your answers are "no", then I have to ask: "What's the matter with you? What makes you think that you can smugly characterize the continuation of a years long investigation on this blog as 'anger'?"

    I'm not really expecting an answer from you. You've probably already dismissed my comment as "anger". But I appreciate your question, as it gives me an opportunity to elucidate the logic for myself and others.

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  20. I agree with zshine who says “To remind us to persevere in the eradication of corruption from our midst, never become complacent to the perverse.”
    We must continue in our opposition to the forced gets of Mendel Epstein et al and the phony K-G heter and condoning/overlooking of adultery of Shmuel Kamenetsky. We must never become willing-to-please and obliging to illegal physical assaults, adultery, etc.
    It’s so wonderful where I live in Bnei Brak, b”h, kiddush Hashem everywhere. What’s going on in treifa America, especially with radical feminism?
    See http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21074
    “The just-released Nishma Research Profile of American Modern Orthodox Jews has generated much discussion…Only 51% of total respondents believe that “Hashem is involved with all day-to-day activities and guides the events of my life”. The same percentage believes that the Oral Torah was fully given to Moshe at Sinai…Fewer than half (45%) of Open Orthodox (male) Jews lay tefillin daily, and only slightly more than half (53%) of Liberal Modern Orthodox Jews do the same…The bottom line is that Modern Orthodoxy – especially its left-end components – is in deep trouble. (Although I do not believe that Open Orthodoxy is part of Orthodoxy, I am working within the assumptions of the survey.) JOFA and its Open Orthodox allies continue to allege that rejection of congregations that have “women rabbis” is divisive, all the while JOFA and its Open Orthodox allies fail to mention that it is they themselves who are the source of the division, having broken with long-established Orthodox practice and having knowingly and continuously violated the unanimous ruling of the generation’s most preeminent halachic authorities...”

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  21. I'm sorry to respectfully disagree. There is only LESS deterrence from this story.

    This is not the first time someone did something egregious and there was fallout that others learned from...

    It might be a first however...that he was left standing?!?! and after starting up with אשת איש NO LESS!!!!!

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  22. Joseph Orlow says: “And we're not speaking here of a Machlokes in Halacha. We're speaking of what seems to be a case where it is universally accepted that Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky violated the Halacha. Who does not acknowledge at this point that he violated the Halacha? Yet Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky is still a member in good standing of the leadership of Agudath Israel. More, he's apparently treated as the head of that leadership.”
    No. Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky runs a kangaroo court. A kangaroo court is a sham court---not a real professional court. One might say that a kangaroo court is with a rogue, scoundrel, criminal acting as judge looking for money for himself. The K-G heter including the fake/phony licensed psychology report is proof that Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky is complicit with Tamar’s adultery.
    My experience with the kangaroo court in Brooklyn Supreme Court is that you can’t argue that the crooked judges are violating NYS law. Judges determine what the law is. Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky determines what the halacha is. Look at how I’m now arguing my case Susan v. Gerald.. My 9/27/2017 letter to the NYS Court of Appeals I write:
    “Rigler's successor on the bench was Garson who signed several orders before and after Rigler. Judge Prus, Myla Serlin, and Susan---no one, ever sent me or TIAA the phony 1995 Rigler Order of Separation. Judge Prus is complicit in this fraud. Judge Prus ruled the 1995 Rigler Order of Separation valid. It is difficult for me to appeal such a ruling. The Commission on Judicial Conduct tells me that that's Judge Prus' opinion and he's the judge. My only alternative is to complain to you to look into this matter, of a kangaroo court. I claim that there is a matter of a crime committed in the Brooklyn Supreme Court. The police need to investigate. I can't call in the police. Maybe if I saw a copy I might have evidence of fraud to show the police. There's also the matter of Myla Serlin's lies. Please look into this matter.”

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  23. In boxing matches, there is the there is the TKO (technical knock-out).

    A TKO means the referee breaks up the fight before the end of the last round and declares a standing boxer as the loser.

    More or less, that's what a TKO is.

    What we've got here is a metaphorical TKO. Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky has retained his standing. But he's been stripped of his champion belt.

    Proof: Let's say a similar case to the one under discussion came now before Rabbi Kamenetsky. Let's say he would go through the routine: letters calling the husband to his Bais Din, despite the case already being in another Bais Din, and despite his Bais Din being too far away to have any valid jurisdiction; letter issued by his Bais Din asking people to persuade the husband to give a Get (despite the husband rightfully never showing up in his Bais Din); a beating of the husband to force an (invalid) Get; generating an unprofessional psychiatric report; culminating in a "remarriage" of the wife.

    Is there ANYONE who would say, "Yes. I accepted Tamar's nullification. I will accept this nullification, too"?

    Maybe there are people who would go on the merry-go-round for another ride. Maybe there are a lot of people.

    I don't know.

    Something tells me, though, that Rabbi Kamenetsky would be forced to resign from the Moetzes if he tries this again.

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  24. Something tells me, though, that Rabbi Kamenetsky would be forced to resign from the Moetzes if he tries this again.

    100%
    And he knows this and therefore wouldn't do something like this again. (I would say that he regrets doing what did, considering the fallout.) Others have also taken note, although the secretive stuff will be difficult to be fought. Here, certain things were done somewhat publicly, including the heter shopping spree.

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