State police are investigating the incident, according to the Journal News, the local paper that first reported the incident.
Christopher Borek, the chief assistant district attorney for Orange County, said his office had received a copy of the video but declined to say whether or not the incident is under investigation.
The following seems to be a false report based on a surveilance video which was understood by those who put it on the internet as being an example of abuse - when in fact no abuse took place. It illustrates what was mentioned in a previous report of people willing to destroy the reputation of individuals without proper investigation and concern for what actually happened.“I can tell you that in general our office treats all allegations of sexual abuse of children as extremely serious,” Borek told JTA, noting that a designated unit handles such allegations. “We never comment on investigations even to confirm if the investigation is ongoing or not unless or until charges are filed.”
lohud
State police are investigating a video purporting to show a school
principal in close physical contact with a young boy in the Orange
County village of Kiryas Joel.
The video was widely circulated on the Internet Monday.
The
video camera appears to have been in the ceiling of the principal's
office. An 11-minute version of the video shows a man sitting down at a
desk and drawing the boy to him. As the boys stands between the man's
legs, the man appears to stroke the boy's face and kiss him several
times, shaking him occasionally and pulling him closer. Both remain
clothed.
An administrator at the ultra Orthodox Jewish school,
United Talmudical Academy, could not be reached. A call to the principal
was not returned.
“We have received the video. We have looked at
it,” Major Joseph Tripodo, commander of New York State Police Troop F in
Middletown said. Tripodo said state police investigators have been
looking into the matter along with the District Attorney’s Office and
the Orange County Child Abuse Unit. He said it was premature to say
whether a crime was committed.
He said police had the video before
it began circulating on the Internet Monday but he would not say how
long ago they began their investigation. He declined to discuss details
of the tape or whether the principal has been questioned. He said “it
hasn’t been determined” what exactly is happening in the video but that
police are trying to have it enhanced as part of the investigation. [...]
Forward reports having read the above article
============================
kikar haShabbat
הרשת סוערת: האם המלמד מתעלל בילד?
ברשתות החברתיות מופץ סרטון מזעזע בו נראה אדם בעל תפקיד חינוכי בחיידר בארה"ב מתעלל בילד. לפי חלק מהטענות, התיק נסגר לאחר שהתברר לחוקרים כי לא מדובר בהתעללות בילד (חדשות)
בשנים האחרונות הולכת וגוברת המודעות בציבור החרדי לטיפול אמיתי בתופעות
חמורות של התעללות בילדים אם במקומות העבודה או הלימודים ואם בתוך הבית
במסגרת המשפחתית, השם ירחם, וגם רבני הקהילות מורים לטפל בעניין במלוא
הרצינות והחומרה זאת על מנת שחלילה תופעות שכאלו לא ישנו ויעקרו מתוך
המחנה.
לעיתים הרבנים מורים להתייעץ עם העסקנים המוסמכים המפנים
ליועצים חינוכיים ,פסיכולוגים או עובדים סוציאלים ולעיתים כשהדבר לובש חשש
של היבט פלילי מערבים אף את רשויות החוק וחוקרי המשטרה הכל מתוך רגישות
מירבית במטרה להביא לתועלת.
בימים אלו מופץ ברשתות החברתיות סרטון מזעזע, שכפי הנראה צולם כבר לפני
כשנה, בו נראה אדם בעל תפקיד חינוכי בחיידר מוכר בארה"ב כשהוא מתעלל לכאורה
בתלמיד ילד בגילאי 6-8.
הסרטון גרם לזעזוע ותחושות של חלחלה בקרב רבים שטענו כי יש למצוא את האשמים ולהעמיד אותם על עונשם.
[...]
לדברי גורמים המכירים את המקרה, התובע בניו יורק שחקר ובדק את המקרה, ושמע
את גרסת הילד, ההורים והמלמד, סגר את התיק מאחר ובדיקתו העלתה כי מדובר
במחנך מזה 45 שנה שמעולם לא הוגשה נגדו תלונה וכי התברר כי מדובר בהתמסרות
לתלמיד בלבד
RDE, how did you learn that this was a false report and that no abuse actually took place?
ReplyDeleteplease read the artilce from kikar hasShabbat.
ReplyDeleteIf you have information that is superior to that of the police investigators - please contact them and explain to them that they were wrong
The fact that the principal did what he did in front of a camera in his office (which does not seem to have been hidden) weighs heavily on the side that it is not abuse. Abusers don't commit abuse when they know they are being filmed.
ReplyDeleteAnd who says Kikar Shabbos is a reliable source of information?
ReplyDeleteIt is a newspaper, after all?
Other press reports in the US are that the camera was hidden.
The police closing the investigations (if they actually did, of course, it's from Kikar Shabbos that they did so), is not indicative either way. If all parties said they will not press charges, the police have no choice but to close the case.
You need to keep an open mind.
Your headline is wrong. It does not say that they decided not to press charges, it says that the investigation is ongoing.
ReplyDeleteThis is obviously child abuse captured on hidden video. It is in fathomable why the man in the video has not been arrested. https://frumfollies.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/satmar-anti-abuse-activists-leak-video-of-a-principal-molesting-a-boy-to-force-his-dismissal/
ReplyDeleteobviously the police who carefully investigated the matter don't agree with your perception.
ReplyDeleteThe camera isn't hidden. The school has cameras in all offices and rooms and is visible to anyone.
ReplyDeleteThe parents told investigators this was not abuse. This is how the teachers and principals have been treating the children for many decades and longer and was never a secret.
ReplyDeleteIt was clear if he was charged that the child and parents would testify on behalf of the principle. That would be an unwinnable case for any prosecutor.
Again - if you have information that the police doesn't please reveal it.
ReplyDeleteok the camera was hidden - did the principal know it was there?
who decided to put the video on the internet? (disclaimer - I have not seen the video)
If the video clearly establishes abuse - why haven't the police arrested or charged anyone?
Bottom line - I have no problem claiming that someone abused a child - if there is clear evidence. If there is in fact clear evidence then why don't the police state that as a fact?
The video is far from clear. You mostly see the tops of both their heads. And you certainly do not see a single moment of kissing on the mouth or any of the other things the guys pushing this video magically claim they see.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, you should only claim that someone abused a child on clear evidence.
ReplyDeleteAnd, more to the point, you should only claim that someone has made a 'false report' on the basis of clear evidence.
You have no evidence for the latter point either. So why do you write that the report is false. You should have just ignored this entire story.
The only thing we can say for sure is that somebody has claimed that abuse has happened. Full stop.
Rabbi, with all due respect, the video shows a grown man holding a little boy between his thighs forcefully for more than ten minutes. The grown man is jerking the boy around and kissing him repeatedly. Are you saying that you think this is acceptable behavior?
ReplyDeleteThe school regularly videotapes its principal from overhead? If this is the case they must have great concern for the children under their care. So why don't they report and arrest this man for imprisoning this child and kissing him in his office alone for more than ten minutes? Is nobody else outraged by this?
ReplyDeleteI saw the video - the physical contact seems what used to be the typical way a rebbe would relate to a child - It is not proof of any sexual interaction. It is not evident that the rebbe is deriving sexual pleasure from the child.
ReplyDeleteBottom line - the video in itself is not proof of abuse.
You are clearly viewing this through the eyes of an outsider. While it is possible that the video is showing abuse. It is not proof because such physical interactions used to be common.
ReplyDeleteA Chasid watching two people hugging and kissing on a high school or college campus or even greeting each other in the street - might conclude that he is witnessing lovemaking while the couple (hetersexual or homosexual) might simple view a hug and a kiss and being friendly - not sexual.
Bottom line - the video in itself is not proof of abuse. Would you agree that sexual abuse requires that one or both is sexually aroused by the contact? Can you conceive of someone touching a child in this manner without getting sexually aroused?
the story has become the focus of media attention and can not be ignored
ReplyDeleteI am not an outsider. I come from a Chasidish background and know exactly what you're talking about. It is most common for a Rebbe to show physical affection to a child through hugging and kissing, and it is also common for a Rebbe to whack a child on the behind as a form of punishment. But I have never, ever seen a Rebbe forcefully hold a child like that while he or she tries to get away for more than 10 minutes. The fact that this incident happened in private, was physical, between the head of the school and a small child, and went on and on for a very long time is tremendous cause for concern. This is why it requires investigation (obviously). Wherever a child is concerned, we must take the utmost care to make sure that they are safe. I am sure that you agree.
ReplyDeleteFair enough, but neither can YOU decide it is a 'false report' (for the reasons I have set out). You can SUGGEST it is false but it could also not be false.
ReplyDelete"because such physical interactions used to be common."
Really? Ten minutes? Source?
"A Chasid watching two people hugging and kissing on a high school or
college campus or even greeting each other in the street - might
conclude that he is witnessing lovemaking while the couple (hetersexual
or homosexual) might simple view a hug and a kiss and being friendly -
not sexual."
But also it may just as well be the preliminary stages of love making. Again, YOU DO NOT KNOW....
What report? There have been no reports on this other than media and facebook reports.
ReplyDeleteyou do not destroy a person's reputation based solely on this type of evidence. It seems that for other crimes a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. In the case of child abuse - a person is assumed to be guilty unless he can prove otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with an investigation. I do have a problem with publically declaring him guilty solely based on this video. You did not call for an investigation but declared him to be guilty.
ReplyDeleteWhile children need to be protected - it doesn't mean that adults must be sacrificied based entirely on suspicions. I don't believe in witch hunts. The same approach has been used to justify charges of satanic child abuse and throw innocent people into jail. It is not an innocent thing to claim that an individual is an abuser and run him out of town on a rail or burn him at the stake.
I am sure you are familiar with Jewish history and know that these type of accusations were used frequently used against Jews. The only thing preventingd vigilante lynch mobs is a justice system. It is not based on "advocates" putting video's on the internet. Or are you arguing that vigilante lynch mobs are the best way to protect children?
Would you have a problem if someone put a video on the Internet accusing you of abusing children or some other disgusting thing?
Rabbi, you are the one who implicitly endorsed dismissing an investigation - on the basis that the police must know what they are doing by ignoring a video.
ReplyDeleteI believe in the law. Not the Kiryas Joel version of the law. In America we are all innocent until proven guilty.
And in fact you accuse me falsely. As I, along with others, have been most careful to say only that the video warrants an investigation. And that this man should be placed on leave until a full rendering of the facts comes out.
um - do your remember what you write?
ReplyDeleteThe school regularly videotapes its principal from overhead? If this is the case they must have great concern for the children under their care. So why don't they report and arrest this man for imprisoning this child and kissing him in his office alone for more than ten minutes? Is nobody else outraged by this?
Rabbi,
ReplyDeleteThe behavior in the videotape is wrong. You don't need a policeman to prove that. Any adult secretly forcing a child between his legs for 10 plus minutes is abusing that child.
I am entitled to that opinion.
Sorry you do not share it.
As far as an arrest, any school that finds a teacher forcibly holding a child like that, doing what that authority did, should call the cops immediately and let them deal with it. Because the appearance of the video indicates a potential sexual assault.
Again I am sorry you care nothing for the safety of the children in that school.
wouldn't be the first time that corrupt police have yielded to political pressures in that part of the country
ReplyDeletebetween his legs for 10 minutes? would you allow one of your children to be between that man's legs for 10 minutes?
ReplyDeleteyou are making complete sense
ReplyDeleteas for daas torah, this is one of those occasions where he makes no sense whatsoever but stands on his foolishness in an attempt to show you that he's more logical than logic itself
you don't have to call him rabbi
ReplyDeleteno place hotter in hell than for those who condone/enable child abuse, happy toasting
ReplyDeletedid you watch the film or do you speak always from a prepared script?
ReplyDeleteWhat you are saying may or may not be correct, but that has nothing to do with my comment. The headline of the article is misleading - it is an open investigation and the police have yet to decide anything.
ReplyDelete"innocent until proven guilty"
ReplyDeleteA lovely honorable cliche.
Firstly it is not a torah concept (if it is please bring a source).
Secondly and more importantly, it isn't true. Never has been and never will be. Reputations, business medical or otherwise it made and broken on the basis of unsubstantiated evidence and rumors. Stock markets rise and fall on the basis of unsubstantiated evidence and rumors. Shiduchim are made and broken on the basis of evidence and rumors. That is just the way the world is.
And if a video surfaces of a Rebbe forcibly holding and jerking a child around for 10 minutes I am entitled to know about it, and chose to send my children elsewhere.
If you want the correct legal position, presumption of innocence does not mean sanctions cannot be taken against somebody when investigations are ongoing. If the chap was sacked, that was wrong. If he was suspended, perfectly acceptable. If investigations were made he should not be sacked. But to be honest, he was stupid to do what he allegedly did in this day and age. He should have known the risk he was taking if parents find out.
if you bothered reading my comments you would have noticed that I said I saw the video. Your comments in general are abusive. Tone them down or they will be ignored
ReplyDeleteShimon you do ramble on - try to be more focused in your comments
ReplyDeleteRegarding innocence - there are many sources regarding chezkas kashrus, lashon harah, slander. However there are clearly sources which provide for taking protective measures in cases of suspicion. That doesn't mean deciding the person is guilty.
This is a reply given by Ohr Someach
In Judaism, a person is "innocent until proven guilty." As the Torah phrases it, "B'tzedek tishpot -- You shall judge favorably." (Leviticus 19:15) The Torah requires that we give others the benefit of the doubt. So, perhaps Mr. Lieberman simply erred in his understanding of this issue.
Judging favorably does not mean that we accept improper behavior; rather, it means that if someone is a basically good person, we seek ways to view him in a good light in spite of a possible lapse. If we see someone who is basically Torah observant, keeps Shabbat and kashrut, we shouldn't jump to label him "non-observant" for this or that halachic infraction. Again, I don't in any way mean to belittle any mitzvah which people are lax about or ignorant of. Rather, I mean to stress the importance of judging our fellow man favorably.
Oh well, as my mother used to say "He who resorts to insults has lost the argument...."
ReplyDeleteI don't recall you writing about Rav Kaminetsky or Rav Greenblatt in a "good light". Yes I know, that case is obviously different (sarcasm).
The first thing you see in the video is the man sitting all the way back in his chair. He doesn't move forward during the course of the episode. So his crotch was well out of the story. He apprehended the boy with his legs but nothing sexual there. There is no exposing any mekomos hamechusim what so ever. The Rabbis hands didn't go downward.
ReplyDeleteSo how in the world is this sexual abuse?!?!?!
Moe what exactly is wrong with you? Have you been diagnosed?
ReplyDeleteI guess you are very selective about which kinds of abuse bother you. And certainly you have selected to ignore your own.
ReplyDelete11 minutes between the legs? if that's typical than we have a really big problem.
ReplyDeleteMemashmesh bema'asov, idei veidei bebigdoi. Why else was he jerking for? Haikar choser min hesefer, and what they don't tell you that it was edited as usual. If you look a little closer, it is megaleh tefach umchasse bemichnasayim venogea bedovor. This is all unbecoming of a melamed, veyesh dvorim beGoy. Go sell it for the birds. Why don't we hear of anything from either party of what was the nature of this 15 minutes? Was it about current events, farher or a shmuz.
ReplyDeleteYou really think that what is going on in that video is normal? If that would be your son/grandchild, you wouldn't want to know what the he** that guy was doing?
ReplyDeleteI said it should be investigated I also said that the video by itself is not proof that abuse took place. Please read my comments before you tell me what I said
ReplyDelete1: You refer to it as a "false report of abuse." 2: You (wrongly) write in your headline that the police decided not to press charges, when the quote from them is that it the will not comment if it is under investigation. 3: You referred to this as a "typical" manner of interaction.
ReplyDeletePlease answer the question: Would you be comfortable if you son/grandson had such an interaction with his teacher/principle?
Yehoshua - not sure what your problem is. This case has been reported in various places on the Internet as a video of a child being abused. - from the evidence presented that is false. The Kikar Shabbat said the police decided to not press charges. The police have said they will not comment on whether they are investigating. Lohud claims they are investigating. What I said is not wrong - you prefer the Lohud conclusion of Kikar Shabbat.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why you think the issue is comfort - a man is being accused of abusing a child based on this video. The police have investigated it have not pressed charges. The rest is conjecture. Because you are uncomfortable with the interaction you want to accuse the principal of being a child abuser? Again I have no problem with those who asked the police to investigate - they have investigated and no charges have been made. Perhaps you should call them up and tell them that since you are uncomfortable - therefore they should arrest the principal?
Set aside the issue of arresting anyone: Has the principle explained what he was doing with that child between his legs for 15 minutes? Has the school openly discussed what clearly is disturbing behavior? And you should know better than to say that the police deciding not to press charges (assuming that they decided this) means that they think there was no abuse. Police will not press charges if they do not think they can get a conviction, and without cooperation from the purported victim's family, there will be no conviction. And you know better than I do what pressures are brought upon families in that community not to cooperate with police in these cases.
ReplyDeleteThe police saw the video many months ago and didn't bring charges. Therefore the principal's enemies released the video. Until about 35 years ago, this was a normal interaction between a student and teacher.
ReplyDeleteHe dare not speak up, lest he will be chased ot of town and lose everything behind. No one claims he is guilty but there is great cause for concern that calls for an investigation and cross examination, we then hear the child's version, check the video if it has been edited as most occurences have been tampered and erased, and we can move on from there. The protection cameras are not under the police Jurisdiction, and we all know why. Putting this to rest as is, smells of a coverup. We yet haven't heard everything that surrounds this happening, we therefore ask why? No one is rushing to judgement, but first let's hear the rest of the story, we then become much wiser.
ReplyDeleteThe point is that the people that see child abuse everywhere will see this as child abuse with or without the video. As long as someone is accused of child abuse they are considered guilty. Forget about proving them innocent. If the police or courts find them innocent, then it is political corruption or crooked judges or police. This is the reality. False accusations are real and much more common that you can imagine. And there are plenty of nut cases out there that will jump on the bandwagon to make sure that the person's name is well publicized.
ReplyDelete"No one is rushing to judgment" - you have got to be kidding or your sole source of information is this blog. Check out the "psak" on the Internet that this video is proof of abuse
ReplyDelete"No one is rusing to judgment" - you have got to be kidding or your sole source of information is this blog. Check out the "psak" on the Interent that this video is proof of abuse
ReplyDelete"No one is rushing to judgment" - you have got to be kidding or your sole source of information is this blog. Check out the "psak" on the Internet that this video is proof of abuse
ReplyDeleteThere are many questions left unanswered and is cause of great concern to most of us. Does this video have sound as well, if not what was the dialogue between them and why is that not newsworthy. Many that are closer to this story do happen to know so much more than we bloggers here do, but that yet does not give them the privilege going on a witch hunt to be Judge, Jury and Executioner . As long as the investigation is still fairly and actively going on, there should be more privacy to be discreet so as not to ruin the reputation of an innocent person, giving them the benefit of the doubt. However, once people see unbecoming responses going on smelling of a cover up, it is of grave concern for - we the people - and not allow the making of a Kisui haDam as it has been going on for far too long. I have read here lots of dire questions that are left unanswered. The mere fact that the parents, and authorities have not pressed charges only begs for even more questions. The fact that for 45 years, there have been no charges pressed against the melamed does not hold any water. Was it because the parents were threatened, as we know it as a fact that they have been all along. There is living proof out there that indeed parents were accused as a nekama and alilat dam by turning tables, accusing the parents exactly of what their child suffered only to be chased out of town, robbed of their Parnassa, Dignity, and of total destruction, instilling fear of the same for anyone that dares to speak up, as has been widely published in the papers. Ask the authorities and they will tell you that they operate just like the Mafia. Just by calling Houston that we have a problem will not cut, burying the head in the sand like a Bas haYa'ana will not do. We must also do something about it, and not by blocking the Markey Bill.
ReplyDeleteAdmitting that the Heter was worthless is only half of the Emes, it also must be rectified as well. Has anyone apologized to Aron Friedman for carrying him around the world putting him to shame, putting out a false siruv against him, beating him up in front of his daughter because he wanted to shep a little nachas from her, not to be counted lechol dovor shebekdusha, chasing him all over the place, and it goes on and on and on? What are you waiting for? These were the Tkanas of Va'ad Arba arotzos, Sdom, vaAmora, Admo, Utzvoyim. As long as we have such open Tzvius, Fakery and Double standards going around, our children will never be safe and that is cause for grave concern to Klall Yisrael. We want Justice for our children, and open a full fledged investigation, answer all the open and outstanding questions surrounding this FIASCO lama'an haShem ulmaan Tinokes shel Beis Raban. Lo tignovi applies equally to all, likewise, Lo Tachnifu es Ha'aretz. No threats, no stom piyot, and the Enablers are worthy to be hung dry in Town Square, vedomo benafsho. We the Children will not be swept under the carpet without a struggle, without a voice, and led like sheep to the slaughter. We the Children and we the People should put out a Kol Kore to gather in CitiField's busing the masses from all over the Country, have the Children publicly declare to the powers to be that the "Emperor has no Clothes", have the Enablers take responsibilty, ban all kinds and forms of child abuse and bringing those responsible to Jusice. Our lives are the children, and the children are our lives, their blood is not Hefker. Enough is enough. Veoni tfilo, Avinu malkeinu, chus verachem oleinu, al oiloleinu veal tapeinu! Amen.
Do a full fledged and full blown investigation now. Airing it out in the sun is best form of disinfectant.
Remember, your influence count's, get 'em , before they get us.
Re. your first paragraph: I agree 100%, and it is a pleasure to see how coherent you can sound when you stick to English.
ReplyDeleteI am skeptical that this was considered normal 35 years ago (unless you mean that sexual abuse of young boys was common).
ReplyDeleteyou still have no proof that this is sexual abuse
ReplyDeleteI did not say that it is. I said the comment that this was a normal interaction 35 years ago would be understandable if sexual abuse was common then.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what that guy was doing. It was either criminal or very strange. "Normal" or "typical" it is not.
A decision whether or not to bring charges depends on if they think they can get a conviction, not based on whether they think it is abuse.
ReplyDeletethey don't press charges when they are not convinced that abuse took place
ReplyDeleteTrue, and they also don't press charges when they think abuse took place but the family will not cooperate, thereby precluding the possibility of a conviction. That is precisely my point: One cannot infer from the decision not to press charges that the police concluded that there was no abuse.
ReplyDeleteAnd therefore you claim that the not pressing of the charges is an indication that he is guilty?!
ReplyDeleteNo, and I don't know why you would think that.
ReplyDeleteAyin Psachim: Safna meAra similar to ... karka olam hi
ReplyDelete