When I was in fourth grade, I didn't get along with a teacher, and it got to the point that he regularly kicked me out of class. I couldn't figure out why the school administration wasn't interested in fixing the situation. No one seemed to care that a ten-year-old kid was in the office a lot of the time.
In retrospect, I think there were three answers. The school did not have another class to put me in; the school realized they had hired a teacher who was somewhat unqualified for the position (likely, because the school was on a tight budget); and related to that, my parents were paying full tuition, and the school didn't want to lose me as a student. I had a sister who had already left the school, and that may have put a hole in the school's pocket, and they didn't a repeat.
I didn't think the teacher was bad. He just bossed me around, and he didn't have my respect, so I defied him. The next year I had a different teacher, and life went on.
I'm telling you this because it is relevant to give the current overdiagnosis crisis some context.
You get diagnoses when you have diagnosticians. That's the message of these videos above. Hire a full-time carpenter to upkeep the school, and he'll take his hammer and find something to bang: if it's a nail, fine. Otherwise, if he's less than honest, he'll bang something else -- or he's out of a job.
Take a profession that is trained to pronounce diagnoses to customers, and you may find parents purchasing diagnoses.
Does a school have a psychologist on staff, or at least on call? Are there teachers in that who consider themselves suited to make tentative diagnoses based on their "experience"?
If the answers are "yes", then brace yourself for diagnoses.
Dr. Ross Greene is right. But he is also wrong. He believes that all children can only be helped through the "talk." While he replaces all the different "diseases" and "ailments" with "lagging skills," in Greene's world, many people can never catch up on their "lagging skills." He does not believe in authoritative rules or boundaries. Sometimes a kid really just needs the parent to calmly and firmly be a parent, and the "lagging skills" correct themselves quite quickly.
'He believes that all children can only be helped through the "talk.' -- he does not say this - he says that the basis of the treatment needs to be engaging the thinking of the child and them articulating concerns etc - the treatment should be in the context of solving a problem collaboratively with the child. Michelle Garcia Winner , the expert on social skills says that these skills must be taught in the context of an unsolved problem
'While he replaces all the different "diseases" and "ailments" with "lagging skills," in Greene's world, many people can never catch up on their "lagging skills.' there is a huge difference - a lagging skill shows up under different situations depending on the demands placed on the child. Dr Greeene believes in teaching kids dynamic skills rather than static skills which just come to compensate. A mood disorder has a dimension of diseaase and may need medication but a kid still needs to become a better problem solver.
'He does not believe in authoritative rules or boundaries.' Firstly using power or one's status often sets in motion conflict and meltdowns -2- when the concerns of the parent are met by the mutyually satisfying solution , a limit has been set, -3- the limit and the boundary becomes the kids and the locus of control rests with the kid and not with the parent - the kid actsd in a way which reflects his values , not just the way the parent wants and to avoid punishment or get a reward, crucial to the moral development of the child 4 - the various cognnitive and life skills are taught indirectly by the collaborative problem solving process
'Sometimes a kid really just needs the parent to calmly and firmly be a parent, and the "lagging skills" correct themselves quite quickly.' Dr Greene came up with this new approach for challenging kids when he found that traditional parenting based on behavior modification practices were making the situation worse. While providing structure helps - and one does not have to be controlling to provide structure , lagging skills and moral development need to engage the kid's thinking and not extrinsic reasons to be compliant. Education is helping kids develop their own moral compass, not to jump through our hoops.Being a parent means different thinggs to different people, but as Thomas Gordon said every time we use power , we have lost a learning opportunity and don't we want kids to see us as - Avi Mori - . treating kids like pets and other behaviorial approaches don't require much thinking and certainly not seeing the world through the eyes of the kid , CPS is hard and messy but there is learning along the way. Dr Greene quotes Hillel - if I am not for myself , who is for me and if I am only for myself - who am I . Collaborative problem solving by supporting the kids autonomy and putting his concerns on the table along with the concerns of others help acquire crucial life skils and moral thinking
he does not say this - he says that the basis of the treatment needs to be engaging the thinking of the child and them articulating concerns etc - the treatment should be in the context of solving a problem collaboratively with the child.
Then you do follow up by saying precisely this. The kid has no set limits. He has a full right to reject all limits that his parent decides to set with him.
Unfortunately, this only works for certain children, in certain situations. And the only reason it works, is due to the fact that the kid does understand limits through society. However, if the kid is already so deep into their own world, even that won't work. You'll have kid that will do as they wish, stuck with parents who refuse to parent. Complete free choice (not choosing one out of two or three options that the parent sets), will have the child be a criminal. Or at best, substance usage, pick hair and other goodies.
Once Dr. Greene is onto Pirkei Avos, please consider this one. שאלמלא מוראה, איש את רעהו חיים בלעו! If not for the fear of authority, then people would be eating other alive. Society needs some very clear boundaries. Rules. Limits.
(The fact that some rules are indeed ridiculous and corrupt, is not reason to throw out all rules - or the baby with the bathwater.)
When I was in fourth grade, I didn't get along with a teacher, and it got to the point that he regularly kicked me out of class. I couldn't figure out why the school administration wasn't interested in fixing the situation. No one seemed to care that a ten-year-old kid was in the office a lot of the time.
ReplyDeleteIn retrospect, I think there were three answers. The school did not have another class to put me in; the school realized they had hired a teacher who was somewhat unqualified for the position (likely, because the school was on a tight budget); and related to that, my parents were paying full tuition, and the school didn't want to lose me as a student. I had a sister who had already left the school, and that may have put a hole in the school's pocket, and they didn't a repeat.
I didn't think the teacher was bad. He just bossed me around, and he didn't have my respect, so I defied him. The next year I had a different teacher, and life went on.
I'm telling you this because it is relevant to give the current overdiagnosis crisis some context.
You get diagnoses when you have diagnosticians. That's the message of these videos above. Hire a full-time carpenter to upkeep the school, and he'll take his hammer and find something to bang: if it's a nail, fine. Otherwise, if he's less than honest, he'll bang something else -- or he's out of a job.
Take a profession that is trained to pronounce diagnoses to customers, and you may find parents purchasing diagnoses.
Does a school have a psychologist on staff, or at least on call? Are there teachers in that who consider themselves suited to make tentative diagnoses based on their "experience"?
If the answers are "yes", then brace yourself for diagnoses.
Dr. Ross Greene is right. But he is also wrong. He believes that all children can only be helped through the "talk." While he replaces all the different "diseases" and "ailments" with "lagging skills," in Greene's world, many people can never catch up on their "lagging skills." He does not believe in authoritative rules or boundaries. Sometimes a kid really just needs the parent to calmly and firmly be a parent, and the "lagging skills" correct themselves quite quickly.
ReplyDelete'He believes that all children can only be helped through the "talk.' -- he does not say this - he says that the basis of the treatment needs to be engaging the thinking of the child and them articulating concerns etc - the treatment should be in the context of solving a problem collaboratively with the child. Michelle Garcia Winner , the expert on social skills says that these skills must be taught in the context of an unsolved problem
ReplyDelete'While he replaces all the different "diseases" and "ailments" with "lagging skills," in Greene's world, many people can never catch up on their "lagging skills.' there is a huge difference - a lagging skill shows up under different situations depending on the demands placed on the child. Dr Greeene believes in teaching kids dynamic skills rather than static skills which just come to compensate. A mood disorder has a dimension of diseaase and may need medication but a kid still needs to become a better problem solver.
'He does not believe in authoritative rules or boundaries.' Firstly using power or one's status often sets in motion conflict and meltdowns -2- when the concerns of the parent are met by the mutyually satisfying solution , a limit has been set, -3- the limit and the boundary becomes the kids and the locus of control rests with the kid and not with the parent - the kid actsd in a way which reflects his values , not just the way the parent wants and to avoid punishment or get a reward, crucial to the moral development of the child 4 - the various cognnitive and life skills are taught indirectly by the collaborative problem solving process
'Sometimes a kid really just needs the parent to calmly and firmly be a parent, and the "lagging skills" correct themselves quite quickly.' Dr Greene came up with this new approach for challenging kids when he found that traditional parenting based on behavior modification practices were making the situation worse. While providing structure helps - and one does not have to be controlling to provide structure , lagging skills and moral development need to engage the kid's thinking and not extrinsic reasons to be compliant. Education is helping kids develop their own moral compass, not to jump through our hoops.Being a parent means different thinggs to different people, but as Thomas Gordon said every time we use power , we have lost a learning opportunity and don't we want kids to see us as - Avi Mori - . treating kids like pets and other behaviorial approaches don't require much thinking and certainly not seeing the world through the eyes of the kid , CPS is hard and messy but there is learning along the way. Dr Greene quotes Hillel - if I am not for myself , who is for me and if I am only for myself - who am I . Collaborative problem solving by supporting the kids autonomy and putting his concerns on the table along with the concerns of others help acquire crucial life skils and moral thinking
he does not say this - he says that the basis of the treatment needs to be engaging the thinking of the child and them articulating concerns etc - the treatment should be in the context of solving a problem collaboratively with the child.
ReplyDeleteThen you do follow up by saying precisely this. The kid has no set limits. He has a full right to reject all limits that his parent decides to set with him.
Unfortunately, this only works for certain children, in certain situations. And the only reason it works, is due to the fact that the kid does understand limits through society. However, if the kid is already so deep into their own world, even that won't work. You'll have kid that will do as they wish, stuck with parents who refuse to parent. Complete free choice (not choosing one out of two or three options that the parent sets), will have the child be a criminal. Or at best, substance usage, pick hair and other goodies.
Once Dr. Greene is onto Pirkei Avos, please consider this one. שאלמלא מוראה, איש את רעהו חיים בלעו! If not for the fear of authority, then people would be eating other alive. Society needs some very clear boundaries. Rules. Limits.
(The fact that some rules are indeed ridiculous and corrupt, is not reason to throw out all rules - or the baby with the bathwater.)