I put a poll in the sidebar concerning the issue of the secrecy of the nature of Tamar Epstein's heter and the identify of the poskim behind it.
It is important to take part to convey a message as to how the public - as opposed to bloggers - view the matter.
So far there is considerably less then 100 votes. There are thousands of people who view this blog. Please make the effort to vote. It is totally anonymous - and if you change your mind you can change your vote.
The results so far clearly indicate - as Rav Nota Greenblatt himself has paskoned - secret heterim and secret poskim make a joke out of halacha.
I think it would be a lot more important , to try and get the opinion of other gedolim, and publicize it; whether they approve, disapprove, or do not want to answer. Maybe even the opinion of the gedolim in Israel; This is a very important issue
ReplyDeletethe effort already is being made
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't put too much stock in a voluntary online opinion poll.
ReplyDeleteGedolim are NOT getting involved effort is being made and so far no success
ReplyDeletenot so
ReplyDelete@Dad/David...
ReplyDeleteThis alleged heter took over 5 years in the making, and don't forget there was no official announcement of the wedding, it leaked out in dribs and dribbles, everybody directly involved is hush hush, and you already complain vehinei boishesh lovo, of course you want Moshiach NOW. Take a deep breath, it is in the making, you already have one expert overcoming kol hascholos koshos as has been already posted. The rest are packing in the bandwagon preparing for the Big Bang. Dad, do you have a horse in this race? Even the horse cannot leapfrog from start to finnish in a blink of an eye. Rest assured, it's coming! Moshiach is on his way.
Can you give us a date?
ReplyDeleteWhat about the opinions in the Blog. If public opinion has no trust in this under-the-counter back room deals, then no dice. At the end of the day, it is up to them 'how and whether' to deal with the couple the day after.
ReplyDeleteCan we get a teshuvah on this episode from R' Moshe Sternbuch?
ReplyDeleteCan i assume the 'gedolim' who oppose don't want to personalize their opposition, so they are waiting for this to blow over somewhat before coming out publicly?
ReplyDeletethe list of signers is growing . Some of the non signers said they needed to clarify what is going on before they sign. Others are not aware of the case at all and need someone to contact them. This takes time
ReplyDeleteThis will not be a minor blip which is soon forgotten
He is well aware of the the issue - don't know yet what is response will be
ReplyDeleteOctober 29 at 1:39 PM Greenich Mean Time.
ReplyDeleteOnline opinions aren't worth the paper, er screen space, they're written on. It is hardly representitive of anything other than those with the most free time to browse the internet and give their two cents worth.
ReplyDeleteIS this a new kind of category with having free time not being of the same mix. You sound opinionated. Here is a proposal for you. Why don't we see who will come forth FIRST, those hush hushing the HETER mutar, or those crying foul, ven men chapt ehm is es bitter. No, not at all, -big time It ain't over till it's over!
ReplyDelete"This will not be a minor blip which is soon forgotten"
ReplyDeleteIt will not be forgotten but in a matter of months it will be ignored by all apart from those involved. That is the story of every 'scandal' real or imagined, in Yiddishkeit.
I'm sure they said the same thing about the machlokes with the Rambam over some of his writings.
not a minor blip: will pressure be brought on the couple to separate? 2. will the rav (and his enablers) be told / will he accept not to do it again?
ReplyDeleteHere is another course of action that is likely to be taking place meachoirei hapargod, something that hashtika yafeh lahem.
ReplyDeleteThose nameless gedolim mentioned beilum shem al pi sod are being given the chance to retrieve their Psak mit Gittens, vehakol al mekomo yavo *beSholom*. Since it is not baderech kavod to publicly declare they erred, here is what is likely being proposed.
When Avner proposed Asahel to make believe as if he is after the shirt of one of Avner's men so as to save face, he refused and lost his life. When Shaul asked Shmuel to escort him to the Zevach so as to save face, Shmuel granted his wishes and did save face for Shaul. In the very near future, this Tamar Date belaa'z will end up in a Fig, they will bezH' Get divorced kedas ukedin, mize umize for whatever the alleged reason might be and that the zivug was not oleh yofeh. Thus, will save the face for all parties involved. When they will be asked Motzo or Motzi, the answer my friend will be, Temarim na'assu yofos/ Te'einim na'asu yofos, veda"l.
"Those nameless gedolim Mentioned beilom smom are given the chance to retreive their psak mit gittens"
ReplyDeleteHow?
And what will happen with the Newly married couple?
They will separate? How?
This case Is Impossible to end' mit gittens'!
The Kamenetskies are also going to be Choizer?( bitshuvah)?
'Rabbi' Greenblat?
Mit Gittens, insinuates a Get. The couple I " YH will get divorced Kedas ukeDin since that is the only remedy to end this illegal marriage, as per halacha 'teitse mize umize'. It is not logical and practical to continue such even from the couples own point of view after all this negative publicity while people will be merannim achreihem that the children are mamz... C. V. Since no one came up yet officially with any reason and proof for the Heter Nisuin, at the end of the day they will have to retreive it. In order to save face short of admitting they erred, they will advise the couple bishtika, to get divorced kedas ukedin, making it seem as if all this is happening of their own free will e.g. "she didn't do this time in round 2 any better", and kosher top and kosher lefil. NO one has to be choizer in public anything, the same way as the example given with Avner's suggestion to Assahel.
ReplyDeleteIs this optimistic hopefulness, or do you have reason to believe that it may actually happen?
ReplyDeleteMeila the machloikes haposkim can hold out longer, but the couple is in big pain, ve'ein hatsor shoive benezek hamelech. chad vecholok
ReplyDeleteWrong! Nov- 4-15, in the mean time, Yam time,
ReplyDeleteDavid, I told you so! Just to save you time.
ReplyDelete