Rabbosai....let's give it all we got...
The gangsters and their sympathizers plan on mustering and mobilizing all their representation for the closing arguments tomorrow. We cannot let the court and jury think that this is something insignificant to frum Jews. We want the court to do what it can to stop innocent people from being beaten up resulting in get me'useh and all that comes from it. Again, do what you can to, to be there and to get others to come.
May we soon witness Torah justice in triumph and Haromas Keren HaTorah.
Thanks for the posting, but Haikar choser min haSefer. This Shabbos we recited Shir HaShirim, and these parrots have been singing from Chad Gadya to Goal Yisrael for several weeks by now, as to who did what to whom and for how much, who drafted, corresponded, signed, aided and abetted in concert to coerce the nonexistent husbands e.g. the Mr. Macaronies, cronies and baloney's for so called divorce, as well as for the existent husbands. Who are those entities that are known beYodin and who are those entities that are "UNKNOWN" unsung heroes belo Yodin, and what was "THEIR" compensation in part of the high priced prized PIE? After all, there are no free lunches, you know. Has the ORA organization that IS part and parcel of these brutal racketeering been presented and charged amongst the Goons Squadrons in violation of Human Rights and encroaching on Freedom and Liberty of these victims utilizing WMD's. Very little has been presented in the Press or on the airwaves for what it's worth, I wonder why. If anyone can update what transpired in the recent singings and dancing's, what these reshaim inflicted and robbed the husbands of their life and dignity, not to mention their families and relatives, it would be worthy like Bizas haYam.
ReplyDelete@zbeng - you are incorrect. I haven't seen or heard any evidence that ORA is involved in their beatings.
ReplyDeleteDear Rabbi Doniel Eidensohn,
ReplyDeletePicketing in front of your house, workplace day and night or any which way
you turn for that matter, harassing, character assassination leaving no
breathing space or room, shaming in public and all the other brutal tactics they
employ, CAN and DOES kill. It is known in medicine that a broken heart can cause
death. Kindly read this:
Cause
of death: Broken heart (it's a real syndrome, and can ...
americablog.com/.../you-can-literally-die-of-a-broken-hear...
John Aravosis
Oct 31, 2013 - You can actually die of a broken
heart. The syndrome was 1st discovered in Japan in the 1990s, and can be
triggered by severe ...
Words can kill. It is BRUTAL. It is a weapon of Mass Destruction, verabim
challolim hipila, as we all know, "Chayim umoves beyad haLoshon". Indeed, I have
seen one of the Father's victim treading along nebach like a "Mes Mitzva" before
passing away of a broken heart Rachmana Litzlan, my heart went out for him. It
does involve the families and relatives of the victims as well, and most of
Klall Yisrael. And Yes, it is done purely for the sake of MONEY by the
INSTIGATORS and NOT leShem Shamayim or for the so called alleged and
fake agunos. Sod H' liyereiov and a sod for ganz Brod, "Ein HKB'H mevi tkala al
yedei Tsadikim", and the proof is the TKALA of Mr. Macaroni along with the
grandiose Chillul Hashem it brought with, in front of the whole wide world.
Haloy dovor hu! And since the so called "Tsadikim Gemurim na'asseh melachtan al
yedei acheirim", hence ORA, Chachomim leHEIRA, RA leShomayim, veRA laBriyos.
Something is rotten in Denmark and the stench smells all the way to the US of
A. This Killing machine brings us lebedige Yesomim veAlmans, Get meusse, Eishes
ish leshuk, Znus, lebedige Mamzerimlach, veharbeh tsoros leYisrael. It must be
brought to a screeching halt, now in the justice System. VEHOELOKIM YEVAKESH ET
HANIRDAF!!! Velo yihye od Shod uShvi vaShever beYisrael, AMEN!
I'm completely at a loss for words. I can not believe that you would hope that fellow Yiddin should go to jail. I'm Mamash shaking. You hold they were wrong. OK! Maybe yours right. You know for sure they won't be doing it agin. So if you want to stop it from happening again it won't happen again. I think to want them to go to jail is such achzurious
ReplyDeleteWho arranged to have Aharon Friedman beaten?
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/08/aharon-friedman-assaulted-in-wifes.html
@Brunfin - there are statements from Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and other gedolim who explicitly said that certain criminals should go to jail. And they were against raising funds to get them out of jail.
ReplyDeleteWho are you to make such pronouncements?
Of course there are situations where people should go to jail. Of course. But the burden is on you to prove that this is such a situation. Especially when we can't assume that it will happen again. I can't believe I have to state this.
ReplyDelete@Brunfin - please read the Rambam regarding a someone who is public danger. Where does he raise your question?
ReplyDeleteRambam (Hilchos Chovel u’Mazik 8:11):. Similarly all those who distress the community and harm it – it is permitted to hand them over to the non Jewish government to be beaten, imprisoned and punished. However if the person is only disturbing an individual and not the community – it is prohibited to hand him over. It is also prohibited to cause the loss of the property of the moser – even though it permitted to cause the death of the moser himself. That is because his property belongs to his heirs.
Then look at the Chasam Sofer to Gittin 7a
But here we know it won't happen again. We know it. We have no right to say maybe it will when we know it won't. I can't believe we should try to get them into jail. I'm shaking. I'd be shocked if there's one Gadol who would say so.
ReplyDelete"You
ReplyDeleteknow for sure they won't be doing it agin. So if you want to stop it from
happening again it won't happen again."
Huh?
Did I hear you right? How many times did it happen before the STING OPERATION?
And how many times would it have happened if NOT for the STING OPERATION?
Tslafchad got capital punishment for transgressing Shabbos, how else would it be
"lemaan yishmeu veyirau"? Have you been drinking brunfin.lately. Only a lifetime
jail sentence will bring him back to sobriety.
"I
think to want them to go to jail is such achzurious"
And
what have you thunk about the brutal beatings and qalso the killing of one of
the prodded victims, who were for sure Yidden? FYI, one of the simonei Yidden is
Rachmonim bnei Rachmonim, don't you know? Are you bodek the tsitsiyot of the
beaten victims before you charge upon them? Here is one more shot for you. How
would YOU stop these makos retsach veinuyim koshos veachzoriyos from happening,
while getting paid 100 G a pop? How will you mend the broken hearts of the
lebedige yesomim he inflicted on them a lifetime of agmas nefesh? Maybe you
should try wine for a change, Nichnas yayin yotso sod, veSod H'
liyereov.
Once the trial is complete, the community needs to compile a list of women whom Epstein is responsible for providing a coerced Get Me'usa. We should open a public registry where men can register that they were violently beaten or threatened or otherwise coerced via financial or public pressure into giving a Get to their wife. Such a Get is likely invalid. If the wife remarried using it, her subsequent children are mamzeirim and the public needs to be aware of such to avoid marrying them.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the number of decades Epstein has been engaged in his hooliganism forcing men into giving a Get, and his statement to the FBI that he beat men about every six months, there must be quite a few cases that need to be investigated and publicized. Surely the victimized husbands will be willing to put it into the record what their wife did to them. The database should include victims of people other than Epstein as well. Victims of ORA, for example, who were publicly shamed kneged halacha into giving a Get Me'usa.
I just saw the Rambam. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the Rambam applies here. There are two possible distinctions: 1) Perhaps the Rambam is in a situation where the person will keep doing it. As I have mentioned, everyone knows that after this trial there is NO way they will do it again, regardless of the outcome oft he trial and 2) We may disagree and say that what they did was wrong. But that is very different than the case of the Rambam where there was NO room to even rationalize. These Rabbis may have made a mistake but at least they honestly thought they were doing the right thing.
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify: These people may have been wrong. But for us to try to send them to jail is mamash achzurious. I am sure that NO Posek would suggest that!!
Beating people won't stop no matter what sentence these people get.
ReplyDeleteThere are always smart aleks who yhink they won't get caught,who think this is a mitzvah, etc.
The only way to stop this is to have the government prosecute those who hire these (incompetent) goons, the women involved. Then, the community will think twice, its no longer a mitzvah.
Only a rasha would write such a post. One must question your yichus after reading your comments. At this point, i doubt you are Jewish.
ReplyDelete@brunfin - you are wrong - the burden of proof is on you to show that the Rambam doesn't apply.
ReplyDeleteI don't accept that you know what poskim will say - you are simply making that up.
You are clearly wrong about people not doing this any more by a judge giving them a lecture and not giving a jail sentence.
How do you know that they thought that violating the halacha was the right thing to do? Taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from women and giving them the false believe that they were free to marry when the Get was invalid?!
In the vast majority of cases where men withheld a get from woman: the woman lied to have the man falsely arrested and placed in prison! That is a FACT! Low life's like Epstein and Ora and the RCA both encouraged and advised these woman to lie and obtain false orders of protection and make false arrests. These scum should rot for the rest of their lives in prison and burn in hell after. They pretend to be "frum" but pick and choose what parts of Judaism suits them. Prison is too good a punishment for a sick, money hungry, pig like Epstein.
ReplyDelete"These Rabbis may have made a mistake but at least they honestly thought they were doing the right thing."
ReplyDeleteNo, these rabbis had a business racket charging $60,000 a pop to beat husbands. They knew they were wrong. Not only because they were charging a bloody amount per hit job, but because they knew they made a sham "beit din" kneged halacha. The husbands, as we saw in the FBI sting case, were never in beis din yet these "rabbis" still held a case and issue a verdict in absentia. Halacha 101 tells you that a beis din can't operate with a defendent in absentia. And Halacha 101 tells you that beis din can't issue a verdict ordering a man to give a Get if the man never appeared in beis din for the case.
I'm Mamash shaking.
ReplyDeleteAre you shaking because of all the mamzeirim that were created?
Are you shaking because of the millions of times where a man and woman had illegitimate marital relations which is chayev misah, every single time?
Are you shaking for the many, many children who were destroyed? Why is it you're shaking?
You know for sure they won't be doing it agin.
Have they admitted their guilt? Have they, at least privately, told these women they mislead to seek another get? Are they active in any sort of teshuva process? We both know that unfortunately, the answer is no.
So if you want to stop it from happening again it won't happen again.
Their many talmidim are still at it. They have not stopped. It is important to see yesh din, v'yesh Dayan in a case as severe as this.
One must question your yichus after reading your comments.
ReplyDeleteBeautifully said - as we're taught: "וכל הפוסל, פסול
[..] ואמר שמואל: במומו פוסל" (קידושין ע א)
Even if they just made mistakes such as,
ReplyDelete1) that they were caught redhanded in a Dina demalchusse Sting
2) the husband didn't even exist
3) megaleh ponim baTorah shelo kehalacha
4) there never was a psak din
5) they took $hochad upfront without even knowing whether there would be a chiyuv Get
6) they karate kicked and prodded a Dovor shelo bo leoilom with ski masks R'L', bandanas R' lesheizvei
7) The Sofer sharpened his feather levatolo
8) convened a Kangaroo Beis Din through cameras and remote control in a remote garage, and not only were they not baki betiv gitin vekidushin, but neither knew why they were convened altogether as Stimler the multitasker, delo yoda may dekomrei rebitsin, bein yemino lismolo, bein arrur haman leboruch mordechai, ed nasseh dayan, dayan naasseh Sofer, Sofer naasseh chazan shliach lidvar aveira chain whipper vechulu vechulu, where the goose laid a rotten egg while the mafia was cleaning his weapons, working outside the law and Shulchan Aruch for the right price
9) did not get permission from the gov to utilize due or undue brutal force as corporal punishment
10) Kidnapping over State lines etc. and oh yes, one more before I forget, condemning a ham sandwich in absentia not the least. They deserve to be canned for life many times over for each and every offense, and have the key thrown away lezuto shel yam, or vezoreh umfarrer lechol haruchot, whichever come first. You do the crime, you do the time. Dont give me the tamme vateh krepilch and Tisha B'av face - Shomu Shamayim! - these are nebech Yidden, so were the victims, my friend. Where were you then, huh? Your MO is to go around in circles ketsapichis bidvash as if having no idea what you have been just told over and over again, and that is your signature. Do yourself a favor, fasten your seatbelt and embrace for impact, roshoi bein birkov, uznovov bein yereichov, veriro notef mipiv kakelv hashov el kioi. Guilty. Guilty on all counts. Guilty as hell. Velo yezidun od. They will have Kosher food with Hechsher rofl of baal hamachshir mehadrin min hamehadrim stamped bossor bossor kosher kosher chosem betoch chosem kemeshulash as in veorvim vekomu olov hoyu meviim lohem lechem ubossor, minyanim lerochtso, and bgodim metsuyonim of one size fits all kedei shelo levayesh es mi she'ein lo. It is too early to tell whether they will sing sing or Riker, or otesville or Alcatraz, Abu Grahb or San Pedro in la paz. In any which case, may they all rest in peace bechol mokom sheim ad ki yovo shiloh, Amen.
This an interesting comment. An example of StockStaining. A variation of Matchbreaking, which I've written about elsewhere.
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2015/04/more-of-lopins-lies-and-distortions.html#comment-1954640468
They deserve jail let then and there families be destroyed forever
ReplyDeletelike you destroyed your aguna's life hmmm. vindictive much?
ReplyDeleteNeither. this is a court of law, and not religion. Evil is in the eyes of the beholder, and mind over matter. if you don't mind, it doesn't matter. For what it's worth to clarify, beating the daylights of someone to scare the evil out of them, is evil in and of itself. Now why don't you take two eggs, place them nicely side by side, and BEAT IT!
ReplyDeletefor not following what you consider the halacha
ReplyDeleteSo the halacha is up for grabs? To the highest bidder? For this itself they deserve to sit in the slammer.
evil people
Who enabled these thugs to decide who is evil? Was it their pay of $60,000 as well as their kangaroo beis din "trial" in absentia?
They also defrauded the women who came to them. They took their 60K, but they delivered an fraudulent get - as the get is invalid. For this they don't deserve jail time? Add to it the bastards they caused these women to conceive. And you want these thugs to get off free?
Who said the people they beat were evil? They beat men into giving a Get when the husband had no obligation to give a Get/
ReplyDeleteFor causing physical harm to ppl
ReplyDeleteWho is the person that says it's ok to have a Bais Din that
ReplyDelete(1) takes money to sit in judgement
and
(2) takes that money from one side to sit in judgement
and
(3) has arrived at its foregone conclusion even before sitting in judgement
and
(4) never bothered to ascertain that the case had any legitimacy, i.e., that never made a determination that each litigant was who they said they were or even existed
and
(5) ruled in defiance of the Shulchan Aruch
and
(6) ordered agents of the Bais Din to violate State and Federal statutes which have been established to protect citizens and maintain order in society?
Did I get the details of this case wrong? Are not those six points what occurred with the "Bais Din" in this case? What do you mean when you write, "for not following what you consider the halacha"? Are you saying you believe the Bais Din followed Halacha?!
The issue for us is no longer Epstein and his crew. The question is what, we as religious jews, are going to do to rectify the situation. Epstein may be crooked, but he started out with a purpose. What he became was something that I can't believe rabbis allow. His innocence or guilt here doesn't change our problems. For us, it would have been better to have more information as to who was actually involved. Which roshei yeshiva, organizations and such, so we could see how deep our problems truly lie and who has deviated from halacha. The government did us the favor of bringing this to the forefront and forced answers to be given. However, all the questions that we had were not answered because they were not out to do our job but their's and their's alone. A guilty or innocent verdict will end the government case but shouldn't end ours. Unfortunately, it will because people will go back to their secretive ways and not discuss a halachik option that all will agree to. If you are waiting for ORA and RSK, RYB and RHS to come clean, it isn't going to happen in this world and definately not in this case. That is the sorry truth.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, Epstein and company might as well be found innocent because they have come clean as much as they had to. If an innocent verdict means anything towards halacha in any sane person's opinion, these people are not truly religious. What will be gained by their sitting in jail for life? Will we end all of our problems? Will it even end one of them? They did bad things, but we known that already. In 15 years, when we get more religious than today (in our minds), we will pasul their work anyway. Even those people that had a "kosher" get done by them will suffer. This is not the halacha, this is public opinion. Epstein and company strayed off the path but we still need to know WHEN that happened. Having them sit in jail doesn't help us one way or another.
Let them go back to their families and get praised and live long life. Ultimately they will stand on trial in a court I will also be found guilty (unfortunately) in and I believe we all have things to answer for that we can hide from at the present time. At that court RSK and other roshei yeshivos and Jeremy and company will need to answer but there will be no public opinion and no website to follow. We have done all that can be done. Going to court to see another jew suffer is just rishus.
@rightoues - are you religious? Did you ever read the Chumash, Nach or the gemora? The Torah proves the obligation for public trial and punishment of those who have wronged the community.
ReplyDeleteAccording to your logic we can ignore all wrong doing because G-d will eventually provide judgment and punishment.
That's me, not religious. The one who can read the chumash and gemorah and still not give the federal government the ability to decide guilt or innocence in the Jewish religion.
ReplyDeleteLast time I checked, there is no bais din other than your personal vendetta against these people. Having everyone sit in jail isn't going to solve your problem. It isn't like the molesters that will still do harm. These people's careers are truly over. We aren't stopping the problem from coming back just these people. What, in true halachik terms, will be accomplished with these people going away for 25 years? How will it change the future?
Let's face it, you are just like them. You just are more afraid of the police than they are. You voice your opinion and sprout rabbinical support, for many of your causes which leave much to be desired. You are fighting the good fight, in your own little world anyway. That's how these people started as well. They just decided, or had support, to go the extra step.
BTW, ultimately, G-d will straighten out this mixed up world. Whether I or you am religious or not. I just hope your feeling that you are G-d goes over well with Him.
Federal Government equals G-d???Rabbi E, you are off your rocker.
@righteous - you are ignoring halacha
ReplyDeleteA man kills his wife, neighbor or stranger in a fit of anger - it is not likely he will ever kill someone else - should he simply say he is sorry and suffer no serious consequences?
A man in desperate need of money - defrauds his friends and relatives of millions of dollars. It is highly unlikely he will be given a chance to do it again. Should he simply say he is sorry and suffer no serious consequences?
In short there are many situations where people commit crimes - that they are not likely to repeat after being caught. Yet they are given punishment. Both as a preventative for others and as a way of helping them repent in this world and not suffer in the next.
You clearly are ignorant of the long history of using secular courts to deal with issues that beis din can't.
As I noted the Rambam clearly disagrees with your approach
It is clear that we don't belong to the same religion. Your comment that protesting their misdeeds is the same thing as the crimes they committed is absurd and evil
Talking about rockers, if you catch a fish and throw it back into the water, can't you catch it all over again? You don't have to be religious in understanding social and antisocial behavior. Ever heard of repeat offenders? What would be the lesson for future offenders? Rocker is not the word. So much for self declared righteous.
ReplyDeleteIf they are acquitted it would make others feel free to get away with doing the same thing and thinking they can get away with it - as the previous crew were acquitted.
ReplyDeleteSo why bother stopping molesters? G-d will take care of it, as you say, no?
ReplyDeleteBoy are you guys being revealed for what you are.
ReplyDeleteRabbi E defends the IBD in the seminary case and says all is good and the rapes have ended. He doesn't ask for justice, just that his relative in the IBD is listened to. He doesn't care for the girls. He fights Touro for not allowing FAFSA but he lets the rapist walk.
Here he doesn't care if any bais din let them do what they did, the bais din is wrong and these guys are going to pay for helping these people. He brings proof from personal offenses to "do gooders" .
You've been revealed Rabbi E. This is just a personal vendetta for you.
Jews cannot break laws if and when they see fit
ReplyDeleteCrazy heads like belsky and crew need to be disowned my the hareidi community
At best there halachik judgment is flawed and are not helping anyone
@righteous - you not only make up the facts you are clearly a sick individual. This is your last comment on this blog
ReplyDelete"Having them sit in jail doesn't help us one way or another"-Your comments are the long-winded, perverse rantings of a very confused ignoramus.
ReplyDeleteThe feminist divorce on demand mafia of Epstein, ORA, and their ilk are needlessly destroying many Jewish families and causing great damage to Jewish communities. It will be a great yeshua if Epstein and company will be locked up for a long time. G-d willing the Feds will then focus their investigations on the YU - ORA feminist gangsters, and hopefully shut down their corrupt operation also.
the rapes have ended
ReplyDeleteWhat rape? Who has gone on record saying rape?
just that his relative in the IBD is listened to
Relative? That's a new one!
He doesn't care for the girls.
Really, now. Hmmm. What have you done to help people? Rabbi Eidensohn's life is complete with helping people, not just as a feel good measure, but in tangible ways. What about you, Ms. "righteous"?
Here he doesn't care if any bais din let them do what they did
Which bais din??? Did you see Rav Elyashiv's letter? Thier own little kangaroo, sham "bais din" only counts in deepening their fraud.
He brings proof from personal offenses to "do gooders" .
Huh? Kindly explain this in under thirty words.
You've been revealed Rabbi E.
Yes, yes, as a fearless and uncorrupted man who stands up for the actual and complete truth. Thanks for pointing it out!
What's this? An entire comment in plain English? Will wonders never cease.
ReplyDeleteThere was no beis din in the Epstein case other than Epstein's own self-made kangaroo "beis din" that he himself was one of the three judges and kneged halacha he issued judgement against the defendant husband without the defendant husband being in his kangaroo beis din.
ReplyDeletethe comprehending challenged and impaired.
ReplyDeleteBack to non-English, I see.