Dear Yossi Sarid, The horror that the overwhelming majority of Chareidi
Jews are feeling at the actions of the extremists is certainly deep. The
sickening demonstration of "cousins" of ours in holocaust garb is just
another illustration of how out of touch these Meah Shearim extremists
are with true Torah sensibilities. The Beit Shemesh extremists...
Monday, January 2, 2012
Open letter to Yossi Sarid by Rabbi Yair Hoffman
http://www.vosizneias.com/97948/2012/01/02/new-york-an-open-letter-to-yossi-sarid-by-rabbi-yair-hoffman
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Has Rav Sternbuch come out and made any public statements about the mess going on in Isral?
ReplyDeleteCharedim are "big boys" now, they don't need "big daddies" to protect and spin for them. Charedim can and should take their punishments like real MEN and GROWNUPS and not like crybabies! We don't don't need Rabbi Hoffman or anyone to give us "lollies" to make us feel better by attacking our critics. Let's try to hear out what the other side is saying for a change and not revert to knee-jerk defenses and shallow stale self-justifications and excuses that hold no water and fly in the facts of the facts and events.
ReplyDeleteFor once Yosi Sarid may be right. Even a broken clock is RIGHT TWICE in every 24 hours!! No need to kill the messenger just because he brings bad tidings. If he were a "baal mussar" of old we would be required to do the right thing of "shomea lecherpaso ve'eino meishiv" and since today there are no "maggidim" and "nevi'im" Hashem sends them to us in the "garb" and through the "voices" of others in odd ways.
Rav Elchonon Wasserman states in his "Ikvese Demeshicha" that those who think it's important to "argue back" at the anti-Semites are like "a dog that thinks it must attack the stick but overlooks the fact that a human hand is holding the stick" -- and in this case, all Jews, especially Torah Jews must try to "hear" what Hashem is trying to tell us, and it's not "pretty" whatever it is, just as in these weeks parshiyos when the brothers were silent when Joseph finally revealed himself to them it is comparable to a "yom hadin" a "day of judgement" and if the message is not learned once then as the Chazal say Hashem will have no choice but to "increase" the level of the "warnings" in order to awaken us from our slumbers.
The comments on V-I-N are interesting. IMHO one can pick and choose talmudic and halachic sources on this issue and make either case.
ReplyDeleteKT
Joel Rich
I agree with R and P.
ReplyDeleteWho cares what some evil piece of garbage like yossi sarid thinks? Rabbi Hoffman is trying to convince him to like haredim lol? Yossi sarid hates the entire Jewish people and wants to see us wiped out by arabs. He should be cursed and condemned, he cannot be reasoned with, and I'm sorry to say but anyone trying to reason with him or convince him that religious Jews are really good people, erodes his own credibility.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Hoffman has a real talent with a pen......what is the value of this open letter? What is the connection bt Yossi Sarid's writings and what is happening now? Use your pen to be more original and insightful to our Torah Community.
ReplyDeleteHere is what I posted there:
ReplyDeleteI once heard Rav Yoel bin-Nun tell over a story of a Shabbos he spent in a secular Kibbutz on a panel with Yossi Sarid. He was astonished to see that Sarid, a known chain smoker, did not smoke even once the entire Shabbos.
He asked Sarid about it, assuming he had maybe quit.
Sarid told him that he had not quit, but did not smoke in public that Shabbos as a sign of a respect for Rav Bin Nun's having come to the secular kibbutz (which Sarid recognized as having been a great sacrifice on Rav Bin Nun's part) and engaged him in respectful discussion that entire Shabbos.
In a world where haredi leaders condemn one thing or another on an almost weekly basis, yet have never issued condemnations of haredi intimidation and violence, perhaps Sarid could be forgiven for believing what he does.
Add to that the home he grew up in, where his father was the sole survivor from the holocaust among eleven siblings and parents.
Hence, his changing his name to Sarid.
One can only imagine how bitter it must have been in that home.
Sarid is a tinok sh'neshba.
What's the excuse of those in EY who have still not spoken out?
For once Yosi Sarid may be right. Even a broken clock is RIGHT TWICE in every 24 hours!!
ReplyDeleteNOT!! I'll be melamed zechus and assumed you did not bother to read what Yossi Sarid wrote.
Yossi Sarid's whole point was that the latest behavior was not a contradiction to the Torah, but is in fact required by the Torah (or at least the Torah she be al Peh). It is a direct attack on the Torah and Chazal, not a criticism of a small group of criminal thugs.
If you affirm that, you are an epikorus in the full sense of the term.
"Tal Benschar said...NOT!! I'll be melamed zechus and assumed you did not bother to read what Yossi Sarid wrote."
ReplyDeleteRaP: Who cares what Sarid says, feel free to read them as much as you want, the point is to note the festering wound and pain where it's coming from and that the Charedim with their abominable behavior are handing him grist for the mill, like meat to the lions, to make hay, for him to spin his yarns, and tell his tales of woe, and act like the aggrieved party etc.
"Yossi Sarid's whole point was that the latest behavior was not a contradiction to the Torah, but is in fact required by the Torah (or at least the Torah she be al Peh). It is a direct attack on the Torah and Chazal, not a criticism of a small group of criminal thugs."
RaP: Sarid is not a Torah scholar and does not claim to be one, but a smart Torah Jew like yourself needs to see that the fact that Sarid speaks out and that he attracts attention and arrives at his "conclusions" and "critiques" requires a far deeper chochma that you seem to be capable of to understand just how far gone he thinks all Charedim are, no matter how justified you think all Charedim are to act like a collective group of spoiled brats when they don't get their way in an open civil democratic free society. Charedim today act like they genuinely miss the "good old days" of the pogroms, ghettos, cossacks, Czars and Kaisers when they could just blame all their own problems on the goyim when it's just way beyond that and we're now way past that.
Don't you think it's sad that you are ready to fight a secular Jew like Sarid as if you were an Agudist in the Knesset debating him instead of overlooking his mistakes and trying to do some much-vaunted kiruv that is so often on your agenda. You plan to go toe to toe with the likes of Sarid, Barak, Livni, Peres, etc and hope to win? Good luck. You'd be far better off taking what he has to say with a large lump of salt, nod your head in sympathy at his anger and frustration and maybe he and his ilk will see that you are human and mensch after all and that you have warm blood in your veins and not just icy and frosty hate for anyone you don't agree with and not just an ideological automoton devoid of humanity and feelings. Instead of viewing Sarid and his types as "dragons" to be slain, view them as wild lions and tigers that can somehow or other be tamed and trained. They are Yidden and their ancestors stood at Har Sinai. Even Moshe rabbeinu had more rachmones on the eruv rav than you! There is a way and yours is not it, that much I can tell you!
And it's not just a minority of Charedim acting like behaimas the whole system is broken and you know it, since it can fairly be said about Charedism at this time that "There is something rotten in the state of Denmark" and it stinks to high heaven.
"If you affirm that, you are an epikorus in the full sense of the term."
RaP: I am sure you have already made up your mind about that a long time ago regardless of what I "affirm" or not here and now. What you or Yossi Sarid say or do is about the same to me -- you are both fanatical true believers and ideologues, keshei oref, you could so easily switch the labels of "agudist" and "communist" in your temperaments and fine-nitpicking spinning your wheels being determined not to correct your paths and straiten out your bearings.
But let me tell you one thing mister, no one is impressed by your constant defense of the indefensible and spinning away at a thousand miles a second as the "spinmeister in chief" to defend every last problem that needs to be addressed and healed.
Perhaps Yossi Sarid can be forgiven? First of all, I don't care what he believes. But more importantly: The Oslo criminals can never be forgiven. This is a villain who went with Shimon peres for secret negotiations to get Arafat and his thug terrorists invited into Israel's heartland where they have now murdered and maimed thousands. The blood is on yossi sarid's hands and I don't care what respect he once showed a good rabbi. Traitors can bring up such good deeds to God when they face Him. In the meantime, they have put the entire nation of Israel into the hands of terrorists and deserve only condemnation. I will never overlook what this criminal has done.
ReplyDeleteTodays poskim say tinok s nishba is one who never heard of yiddishkiet. YS fights yiddishkiet.
ReplyDelete2) if you want to blame for the oslo disaster, you must also blame Rav ovadia yosef ( and/or derie) also.
From YNET News.com:
ReplyDelete"2 haredim arrested over pics depicting J'lem police chief as Hitler: Ultra-Orthodox residents of Beit Shemesh suspected of distributing posters online with captions reading 'Jerusalem Jews under the tyrant Shaham's occupation in 2012' and 'we made it through Hitler, and we will make it through his successor'
Eli Senyor, 01.04.12
Two ultra-Orthodox men from Beit Shemesh were arrested Wednesday morning on suspicion of distributing flyers depicting Jerusalem police chief Niso Shaham as Adolf Hitler.
The suspects, aged 26 and 55, were arrested by investigators from the Serious National and International Crimes Unit.
One of the flyers, which were published online, depicts Shaham wearing a Nazi uniform with a caption reading "Freshly imported from Berlin" and "Adolf Niso Shaham is a murderer." Additional text read “We made it through Hitler, and we will make it through his successor" and expressed hope that Shaham meet the same fate as the Nazi dictator."
RaP:
ReplyDeleteLet me repeat what I said. Yossi Sarid stated a direct attack against the Torah, not the behavior of some religious people. He has been an enemy of Torah his whole life. Anyone who believes that the Talmud is evil (chas mi le hazkir) is an epikorus.
The Chofetz Chaim once noted that when a baal ha bayis buys a cat, they are both happy, but for different reasons. The baal ha bayis is happy because his house is being rid of mice. The cat is happy because she gets to chase mice. Some people are like the cat -- they have no interest in improving the situation, they just enjoy torturing other creatures.
(Frankly, I did not see the point of R. Hoffman writing his response. It just called more attention to Sarid than he was getting. He really is a political has-been.)
The Charedi world has serious problems. Anyone who thinks they will be solved by attacking Chazal is a complete fool.
BTW, RaP, I noticed you took great liberties in putting words in my mouth and imputing different positions to me. Wonder how you can do that, since you do not know me. I guess this is your way of following the Neviim of old. I'd be more impressed if you had the courage to identify yourself, but then again I guess the anonymity of the internet allows one to spew freely without inhibition.
"Tal Benschar said...Let me repeat what I said. Yossi Sarid stated a direct attack against the Torah, not the behavior of some religious people. He has been an enemy of Torah his whole life. Anyone who believes that the Talmud is evil (chas mi le hazkir) is an epikorus."
ReplyDeleteRaP: You have a far too ideological view of Sarid and his ilk. The Chazon Ish held (already in the 1950s!) that bizman hazeh nowadays our entire dor (generation) can be considered as tinokos shenishbu. Sarid is no different to the am haaretz Rabbe Akiva until he was 40 years who said on himself that until then he hated talmidei chachomim that he wanted to bite them like a donkey and the chazal point out that the greatest hate and jealousy in the world is between the am haaratzim and the the talmidei chachomim, so Sarid (who is both an am haaretz and tinok shenishab -- as you easily overlook for your propagandistic, tendentious and INCENDIARY outlook and purposes is no different to Rebbe Akiva, and who knows he may yet do teshuva and straighten out before he dies. Stranger things have happened in modern times.
"The Chofetz Chaim once noted that when a baal ha bayis buys a cat, they are both happy, but for different reasons...Some people are like the cat -- they have no interest in improving the situation, they just enjoy torturing other creatures."
RaP: Cat shmat. Shlomo HaMelech thought cats were great, he stated that you could learn TZNIUS from a cat.
"(Frankly, I did not see the point of R. Hoffman writing his response. It just called more attention to Sarid than he was getting. He really is a political has-been.)"
RaP: Agreed. So why not have some pity on a political "has been" he is still a Yid. Or have you been fighting him so long in journalism that you just can't get out of your own pre-set mindset?
"The Charedi world has serious problems."
RaP: No kidding!
"Anyone who thinks they will be solved by attacking Chazal is a complete fool."
RaP: The world has its comedians and badchonim. Every pack of cards has its jokers and every court has its jesters, they have value, if you are smart and wise enough to know how to "hear them out" you may learn something about how the outside world looks at you!
"I noticed you took great liberties in putting words in my mouth and imputing different positions to me. Wonder how you can do that, since you do not know me. I guess this is your way of following the Neviim of old. I'd be more impressed if you had the courage to identify yourself, but then again I guess the anonymity of the internet allows one to spew freely without inhibition."
RaP: You cannot deny that you are on this blog to be a spinmeister and attack with your evident knowledge any positions that you deem to be politically incorrect, something like the old Jewish Observer magazine did and the latter-day English Yated do all the time. And you are also very good at playing as an Internet troll that likes to not-so-subtly dig at and insult posters that you deem "deserve" to be attacked for their "lack" of "political purity" and "adherence" to your self-evident point of view, such as labeling opinions you hate as "spewing" and talking down to other posters in a typical "ArtScroll" manner.
Great Commentary RAP!!! , I remember you taking on on the Beheima Tropper, who was able to corrupt most of the living haredi gedolim.
ReplyDelete"Rehov slonim 11 said...
ReplyDeleteTodays poskim say tinok s nishba is one who never heard of yiddishkiet. YS fights yiddishkiet.
2) if you want to blame for the oslo disaster, you must also blame Rav ovadia yosef ( and/or derie) also.
"
And I certainly do. NONE of the Oslo criminals can ever be forgiven!