Talkline Communications
Complete Show mp3 Sunday, November 20, 2011 3:00 AM Dr. Michael J. Salamon, Woodmere Psychologist Tackling Abuse in Orthodox Jewish Community, Pini Taub abused around 1990 abused by Rebbe in Yeshiva
Complete Show mp3 Sunday, November 20, 2011 3:00 AM Dr. Michael J. Salamon, Woodmere Psychologist Tackling Abuse in Orthodox Jewish Community, Pini Taub abused around 1990 abused by Rebbe in Yeshiva
This is an important event. Dr. Salomon is an Orthodox therapist who deals with abuse victims and has written a book about the unique issues of dealing with abuse in the Orthodox community. Pinny Taub is a chassidic victim who has been an eloquent advocate for victims. He recent stopped attacking the rabbis and institutions who have not helped or have obstructed help for victims. He now feels it is necessary to focus exclusively on change which doesn't involve criticism of rabbinic authority or the Orthodox community. Rabbi Frankfurter is the editor and publisher of Ami Magazine - who constantly attacked Dr. Salamon for vilifying the Orthodox community over the abuse issue - even though he admits he didn't read his book and later apologized to Dr Salamon - if it were true that he wasn't vilifying the community.
The issue of course is the old one of what is more important - to protect the victims of abuse or to preserve the perception of authority and integrity of the rabbis and community leaders. Everyone would agree if you can have both - than go for it. The issue is when you have to decide between the two which side to you chose. Can you only help the victims to the degree that it doesn't embarrass the community? Or is helping the victims the prime value - even when it causes embarrassment and reduced respect for the rabbis.
It is interesting that the main villain according to Rabbi Frankfurter, Pinny Taub and Dr Salamon is the bloggers. They all seem to assume that there are no good blogs or that no good comes from even bad blogs. In this they are both clearly mistaken.
The following was from a discussion I had on Cross-Currents with Pinny Taub (who contributed a chapter to my book) on this issue
Pinny Taub wrote to me:
I really have a lot of respect for you. I did not include you in my letter and I did not include most activists. I specifically wrote hate-filled. I agree that whatever has changed for the better came because of the constructive criticism and you deserve a great deal of credit for that. Regarding your book I have no regret that I added my story. If my story helped only one person become more aware, then I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
The three of them are correct. I salute them for saying the non-PC truth, even thought they know they will be vilified for it by the anonymous bloggers.
ReplyDeleteSteve you are a joke. It is policitcally correct to blame the bloggers and they will be praised in their circles - why should they care what bloggers say.
ReplyDeleteIn the liberal bubble of the Orthodox-left prevalent online, it is very PC to denounce rabbis and Chareidi Judaism. And to disregard "old-fashioned" halachas, that are "no longer relevant" in the new age of the twenty-first century.
ReplyDeleteSteve said...
ReplyDeleteIn the liberal bubble of the Orthodox-left prevalent online, it is very PC to denounce rabbis and Chareidi Judaism. And to disregard "old-fashioned" halachas, that are "no longer relevant" in the new age of the twenty-first century.
================
so what? these people are not part of that world. In their world it would be politically incorrect to praise the bloggers.
In this world, it is politically incorrect to praise rabbonim.
ReplyDeleteI today listened to the whole show, which echoes the comments of a Monsey Rosh Yeshiva, Rabbi Ephraim Wachsman, at the November 2006 Aguda Convention, six months after the NY Magazine article exposing Yudi Kolko, of Yeshiva Torah Temimah, as a serial child sex molester.
ReplyDelete"No blogs...chadash assur min haTorah", Rabbi Wachsman bellowed at the Thursday night plenary session, as Rosh Aguda Rav Yaakov Perlow sat to his right, and Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky sat to his left.
It was the UOJ blog which, in September 2005, published David Framowitz's account of being molested for many months, as a child, by Yudi Kolko, first in his car, later at camp.
Three months later, in December 2005, I happened to chance upon the UOJ blog, read the post, and wrote a response, which came to published on January 4, 2006. I believe its still there. I explained that for several years, I was trying to persuade Agudath Israel and our frum organizations to make our yeshivas safer and better by doing background checks on our employees, and maintaining a registry of unfit people.
http://advocatesforchildren.tripod.com/position-papers.html
Eventually, in May 06, the UOJ and Framowitz story made its way to Robert Kolker and NY Magazine, and five years later, there are dozens of arrests, abuse-prevention programs are being held in many yeshivas and shuls all over the country, and our corner of the world is a little bit safer.
Kolko was only the first to be specifically exposed by UOJ and other blogs - there are others.
Additionally, the mood and atmosphere created by the blogs led to increased reporting, prosecution, awareness, and overall safety.
We're still miles away from where we should be. Aguda still hasn't done background checks, and a registry. Many rabbis, of the Rabbi Frankfurter type, are the biggest obstacle. They discourage reporting. But things are better - and its because of the blogs, like this one, by the way, Daas Torah, which has also led to the publication of two important very helpful seforim.
The problem with your narrative, Elliot, is that Rabbi Kolko was never convicted of any sexual crime even in secular court. The only conviction he has, is a misdemeanor not a felony. And even that is not a sexual crime under New York State law. It is for "endangering the welfare of a minor", the very misdemeanor that, for example, a parent gets charged for leaving his child home alone.
ReplyDeleteI think it is wrong to lump all blogs in one category and calling them the worst of avairos. It's like saying all newspapers are the worst of avairos, although there is a big range from tabloids to newspapers, and in the Jewish World, the Jewish press, Yated and Hamodia. There is no doubt that some blogs are shockingly juvenile and full of bizoyon of talmedei chochomim of the worst sort, in a silly immature way. However some blogs are written respectfully and bring up valid points and logical sources, which is what the maseh v'matan of talmid Torah is all about. The truth is, I have spoken to numerous rabbanim who are involved in this inyon, and they are saying exactly the same things that the blogs are. Not one rav who I have spoken to was able to defend the Agudah position. (One distinguished rav who I'm close with got so incensed he called one of the rabbanim of the Agudah a Nazi and a skunk for not having the courage to admit his mistake. He then calmed down and said, I don't want to talk about it anymore and ended the conversation.) The point is, what is written on the blog is what all the ba'alai da'as are saying anyhow.
ReplyDeleteIf the Agudah doesn't want blogs, they should instead provide an open forum to the public to be able to voice their questions and concerns directly to the Agudah rabbanim and have open dialogue about their positions. If there was this type of transparency, there wouldn't be a need for blogs. Blogs are sometimes the release of frustration from a public who is ignored and crying to be heard.
I think it would be more productive for bloggers and readers of blogs instead of venting their frustration in anonymous blogs, to bring up the issues directly with the gedolim and the Agudah whenever they have the opportunity, in a straightfoward and respectful manner. For example, to call and write to the Agudah office to explain their policies, asking Agudah representatives to come to your shul for an open forum where issues may be addressed, and even asking the rabbanim themselves whenever one sees them such as by simchos.
The Arab spring has shown that the voice of the public can be stronger than the ruling establishment.
****
bracha v'hatzlacha
MO Spokesman said...
ReplyDeleteThe problem with your narrative, Elliot, is that Rabbi Kolko was never convicted of any sexual crime even in secular court. The only conviction he has, is a misdemeanor not a felony. And even that is not a sexual crime under New York State law. It is for "endangering the welfare of a minor", the very misdemeanor that, for example, a parent gets charged for leaving his child home alone.
================
And therefore you would leave him alone with your kids while a pedophile who received a more serious punishment you would avoid?!
You must be aware that the conviction is not always a reflection of the severity of the crime.
so what is your point?
My point is that Elliot can't go accusing someone of being "a serial child sex molester" when in fact not only wasn't he convicted of such, he wasn't even accused as such! He can claim that the same way anyone can claim Elliot is a serial child sex molester.
ReplyDeleteThe story of the Kolko plea is described here
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thejewishweek.com/features/da_struggles_explain_kolko_plea_deal
The Orthodox-hating JW is as useful as Der Stürmer.
ReplyDeleteIn fact any hearsay by any media outlet is meaningless in leveling charges against someone.
http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/da_struggles_explain_kolko_plea_deal
ReplyDeleteRabbi Kolko, 62, a teacher at Torah Temimah for about four decades, faced felony charges of touching two first-graders in their sexual areas and of forcing an adult former student to touch him during a visit to the school. Under the plea agreement, Rabbi Kolko, made no admission of sexual wrongdoing. He will not have to register as a sex offender and pleaded guilty only to a misdemeanor.
Outside the case, others — many of them now beyond the legal statute of limitations — have given accounts of being molested by Rabbi Kolko as long as nearly four decades ago. Five former students have filed a civil suit against Torah Temimah, alleging school administrators knew about Rabbi Kolko’s molestation of themselves and other students over many years but sought to conceal it and intimidate students who spoke out.
Once you start quoting JW, you may as well include Der Stürmer's view. They are both Orthodox-hating.
ReplyDeleteOr, perhaps, you can find other hearsay reported in the media. Hearsay the best one can do when there is no case.
MO Spokesman said...
ReplyDeleteThe Orthodox-hating JW is as useful as Der Stürmer.
In fact any hearsay by any media outlet is meaningless in leveling charges against someone.
==============
You raise an important point. Perhaps you can give me the citation for this story in Yated or HaModia. I sure their coverage was very objective and exemplary
Why should Yated or HaModia report hearsay? If YOU were accused of murder by some deranged lunatic, should Yated and Hamodia report it too? Loshan Hora doesn't belong in Jewish newspapers. Especially if untrue. And in this case there was no conviction.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thejewishweek.com/features/yeshiva_fired_then_paid_rabbi_charged_abuse
ReplyDeletehow do explain Kolko being fired?
Given the lightness of the sentence would you advocate that he be reinstated by Torah Temima?
MO Spokesman said...
ReplyDeleteWhy should Yated or HaModia report hearsay? If YOU were accused of murder by some deranged lunatic, should Yated and Hamodia report it too? Loshan Hora doesn't belong in Jewish newspapers. Especially if untrue. And in this case there was no conviction.
==============
This is not lashon harah. this is concern that an individual was endangering students. The charge came from more than one person and over a period of 4 decades. We are not dealing with a deranged lunatic making charges. You keep distorting the nature of the case.
Who said he was fired? JW reports are as trustworthy as Der Stürmer. Additionally, even their report quotes the attorney as only says that the parties agreed to end the employment. Not that he was fired. Everyone retires sooner or later. And considering the beating the media was giving him, I don't see how anyone can blame him for quitting under such pressure.
ReplyDelete"The charge came from more than one person"
ReplyDeleteAnd yet not a SINGLE conviction of any sexual crime. Or any felony for that matter.
MO Spokesman said...
ReplyDelete"The charge came from more than one person"
And yet not a SINGLE conviction of any sexual crime. Or any felony for that matter.
==================
would you allow him to alone with you children?
It is obvious that according to the halacha he can not be a teacher with these charges against him - even though he was not convicted of a sexual crime.
Penal Law § 260.10
ReplyDelete"Endangering the welfare of a child.
A person is guilty of endangering the welfare of a child when:
1. He or she knowingly acts in a manner likely to be injurious to the physical, mental or moral welfare of a child less than seventeen years old or directs or authorizes such child to engage in an occupation involving a substantial risk of danger to his or her life or health;
Endangering the welfare of a child is a class A misdemeanor."
Kolko was indicted for a combination of felonies and misdemeanors, all based on child sex abuse. The misdemeanor to which he pled guilty, endangering the welfare of a child, is above. Both felonies and misdemeanors are crimes. As is common in sex crimes involving young children - and here one child was 7 or 8 - there was a plea deal. In this manner, the victim and his family benefited by avoiding the trauma of a young child testifying in front of a jury, and also by receiving the certainty of a guilty verdict. Kolko, in exchange for his guilty plea to the above misdemeanor, avoided the risk of a long prison sentence. Kolko was also sentenced to three years probation; and there was an order of protection. A couple years later, when he violated that order of protection by glaring at the child, he was re-arrested.
So Kolko is a convicted criminal. If he's ever asked in court, or on an employment application, have you ever been convicted of a crime, he is required to answer, yes; otherwise, he is lying.
"It is obvious that according to the halacha he can not be a teacher with these charges against him"
ReplyDeleteThere are NO> charges against him.
is obvious that according to the halacha he can not be a teacher with these charges against him"
ReplyDeleteThere are NO> charges against him.
====================
there were
Elliot:
ReplyDeleteThe guys arrested at protests, like OWS or when the Jewish community protested in front of the Soviet Consulate to get the Jews released, are also guilty of a misdemeanor.
P.S. That so-called violation of the order of protection was thrown out of court after it became apparent the so-called victim set it up by walking past Rabbi Kolko's house.
"There are NO> charges against him."
ReplyDelete====================
there were
And they didn't stick. He wasn't convicted of them. Anyone can make false allegations. That doesn't disqualify him.
Anonymous MO Spokesman said...
ReplyDelete"There are NO> charges against him."
====================
there were
And they didn't stick. He wasn't convicted of them. Anyone can make false allegations. That doesn't disqualify him.
================
Again that doesn't disprove the charges or mean they were false. Anyone who has these type of charges against him by multiple people over a long period can not be a teacher according to halacha - unless the charges are disproven. They were not disproven in this case.
The DA only brought charges from two people. And they were both within the same relative time period.
ReplyDeleteBut even if your point is granted about not teaching, he still maintains his presumption of innocence.
MO Spokesman said...
ReplyDeleteThe DA only brought charges from two people. And they were both within the same relative time period.
But even if your point is granted about not teaching, he still maintains his presumption of innocence.
=====================
If he can't teach and he can't be trusted to be alone with children - that I don't know what you mean by presumption of innocence.
Daas Torah, keep publishing. In fact, it has only been the blogs that have pushed this issue to the forefront and will continue to be a voice of the victims and their families--as the "establishment" repeatedly refuses to deal with the issue. Thanks Daas Torah.
ReplyDeleteI listened to the show and just want to add to the list, my ex-kehilla rav as one of 'those-that-obstruct-cases-of-child-sex-abuse-in-the-charedi-community' and who blames and attacks the victims and their families, and I want to emphasize that this happened recently so as to expel the myth that we've improved so much on this issue. The only improvement I saw was my ex-rav learning to be more subtle about the cover up, adopting an act of sympathy for victims (espousing how damaged and deranged they can become) and purporting to 'work with police' even though for some reason the members of his very own kehilla refuse to report.
ReplyDeleteLet me be silly and act like Chushim ben Dan: Why are some posters here defending Kolko to the hilt? Is Kolko some sort of "martyr" or "tzadik"? If so why was he kicked out from his teaching positions at yeshivas and camps?
ReplyDeleteThere was a major investigation over a long period of time when kids who attended Torah Temimah Yeshiva came forth that dragged in the whole rabbinic establishment of Flatbush and beyond.
There was supposedly the role of Shea Fishman from Torah Umesorah who was supposed to counsel these boys instead he spilled their confidence to Lipa Margulies the owner of YTT. Fishman was forced to resign in disgrace because of this behavior. There was the "ruling" of Pinchas Sheinberg who said since there was "no penetration" that "nothing happened" and that made him a laughing stock.
There was a din Torah that dragged in all the roshei yeshiva of Faltbush and Kolko's boss from Camp Manavu Shlomo Klein who refused to back up Kolko.
Supposedly Rav Avigdor Miller urged physical retribution against Kolko as he did against Mandrowitz. Many others were involved until Kolko was fired and banned from teaching kids. He got a good lawyer and got off lightly. But it was the first time such a prominent charismatic charedi rabbi took such a hit, and it obviously still hurts some people to this day as can be seen from the vociferous support Kolko still garners from some obstinate folks.
But there can be no turning back the wheel of history once the cat has been let out of the bag because people have seen that (some) justice can be done and many parents of victims and victims themselves are rising up in protest against the cover-ups and stonewalling of blatant sexual abuses in the yeshiva and chasidishe world no matter how much people want to talk about tangents like "blogs" and "newspapers" or whatnot.
Re Kolko's guilt or innocence, to a segment of the frum community the existence of the Kolko problem did not come out of the blue in 2005 when UOJ publicized it, but was known for years. As an example, I grew up in the 1980s. I never went to Torah Temima, I never went to Camp Agudah or Ma Na Vu. I didn't even grow up in Brooklyn.
ReplyDeleteBut *I* had heard about Kolko, through the network of kids. Everyone who knew someone who went to Ma Na Vu had heard of Kolko.
So don't give any nonsense about the failure to convict him. The man has been a smoking forest for decades. You're going to insist that there never was a fire? You're just a buzzing mosquito, MO Spokesman. A pain, a nuisance, but you're not going to convince the world that black is white and night is day.
MO Spokesman, you aew so over the top that one seriously has to wonder whether or not you actually are Kolko himself.
The fact that 'MO Spokesman' keeps refering/comparing the JW to 'Der Sturmer' should PROVE to everyone - BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT - that we are dealing with a Class-A Crank!
ReplyDeleteJewish Week is certainly an anti-religious rag.
ReplyDeleteAnd that makes it into Streicher's 'Der Sturmer'?
ReplyDeleteMakes as much sense as the Satmar kids I grew up with calling anyone they disagreed with, 'Nazis'.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/03/prweb359023.htm
ReplyDeleteWhen Rabbi Shlomo Nisanov was President of the Vaad Harabbonim of Queens he signed a statement together with radical gay rights advocates attacking YU for not being pro-gay enough. Nisanov went so far to say that being anti-gay is disgracing the memory of the kedoshim in the Holocaust.
The Queens Vaad elevated Nisanov to President so they could suck money out of the 60,000 strong Bocharian community.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xtARz-xjePc/TsbT_StiRfI/AAAAAAAAFjE/vpCtCBG4MlI/s1600/Agudahcon3.jpg
Now the Agudah has the same intentions by appointing Nisanov to speak at the upcoming fresser convention.
For what it's worth Salamon said that he does not "write a blog". He also said that he does not write specifically for blogs and that blogs are not the only source of his information. It's hard to hear him over the rantings of Frankfurter. Intersting that bloggers are villifying him the same way that Frankfurter does...
ReplyDeleteJason J