Time Magazine - Ten Conspiracy Theories
# The JFK Assassination
# 9/11 Cover-up
# Area 51 and the Aliens
# Paul is Dead
# Secret Societies Control the World
# The Moon Landings Were Faked
# Jesus and Mary Magdalene
# Holocaust Revisionism
# The CIA and AIDS
# The Reptilian Elite
I'm surprised they didn't mention Elvis and Jim Morrison still being alive (and working at the same gas station in Arkansas as the Rebbe!)
ReplyDeleteMost of those theories are believed by fringe lunatics and bored housewives who read the National Enquirer, sans the Kennedy assassination. So you are comparing the Chareidim with whom?
ReplyDeleteBartley Kulp said...
ReplyDeleteMost of those theories are believed by fringe lunatics and bored housewives who read the National Enquirer, sans the Kennedy assassination. So you are comparing the Chareidim with whom?
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Sounds like circular reasoning - if you believe in these theories you are a lunatic because only lunatics believe them. Do you have any solid proof for that assertion?
I'm curious as to the title of this post. I have so far met 2 haredi 9-11 truthers and I've talked to some haredi "birthers" as well -- ya know, folks who think Obama suppressed his birth certificate (count Jonathan Rosenblum in that number: http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2008/11/06/israels-ugliest-export-journalists-as-decision-makers/ . If you're wondering why people cared about the birth certificate, it's because they think he wasn't born in the States. This has been thoroughly debunked -- see the fact-checking websites' articles). And of course, then there's the "he's-a-Muslim!" crowd. I wonder how widespread this phenomena is in haredi society or if I just have bad luck with who I end up shmoozing with?
ReplyDelete"you don't have to be Chareidi to believe Conspiracy Theories"
ReplyDeleteOf course not! No-one said this. I would even say that groups in society could be defined according to the conspiracy theories they tend to believe...
...and sometimes, truth is even worse than a conspiracy theory...
Baruch said...
ReplyDeleteI'm curious as to the title of this post.
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Unless you believe that my post was partof a conspiracy - it is reasonable that Time magazine was directly its comment the general population.
So while it seems that you only know Chareidi believers - I think it is much more widespread in the population than you are aware. BTW Arabs are also strong believers in conspiracy theories.
shoshi said...
ReplyDelete"you don't have to be Chareidi to believe Conspiracy Theories"
Of course not! No-one said this. I would even say that groups in society could be defined according to the conspiracy theories they tend to believe...
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The news reports dealing with this issue imply that only chareidim could be so naive as to believe in conspiracy theories - See the above comment by Baruch
I think Baruch just points out the kind of conspiracy theory that caracterises the chareidi crowd. That's his good right, no? He is not stating that other groups don't have conspiracy theories...
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to say anything too controversial here. Shoshi's warm -- I'm wondering how pervasive the conspiracies are in the haredi world.
ReplyDeleteBut the title of your post, Dr. Eidensohn, seems to indicate that you seem to be under the impression that there are many haredim who believe these things.
While IRL I only know haredi believers, depending on my schedule, I try to keep up with screwloosechange.blogspot.com and related debunking sites.
"The news reports dealing with this issue imply that only chareidim could be so naive as to believe in conspiracy theories - See the above comment by Baruch"
ReplyDeleteWell, erm, now that we've established you misread my comment, please cite two news reports that imply as such.
Ultra-Orthodox community leaders and demonstrators expressed anger at the authorities and hospital officials over the arrest, arguing that the mother is innocent and that the affair was a pretext cooked up by the "Zionist authorities" to harass the religious public. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1101803.html
ReplyDeleteMany haredim truly believe that the secular Israel plots to exterminate them, and if not that, then to humiliate them, disparage them, and force them to betray their faith.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3749322,00.html
With due respect Dr. Eidensohn, I see no such implication from said quotes that "only chareidim could be so naive as to believe in conspiracy theories." They imply that significant forces within the haredi kehilla believe in such theories (e.g. "community leaders," "many"), but not that they are the only people in the world who do.
ReplyDeleteadd this posting to the list which incudes two news items
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/07/wall-posters-slandering-hadassah.html
Baruch I think you are being naive. For example the following does not imply that the Chareidim have reasonble suspicions regarding Hadassa. If the hospital thought the suspicions were normal they would be spending their efforts on defending themselves and explaining why the accusations are not true
ReplyDeleteThe Hadassah Medical Organization expressed its "disgust" about the threats to its deputy director-general, Dr. Yair Birnbaum, by extreme haredi elements in connection with the hospitalization and treatment of the three-year-old boy whose mother is suspected of abusing and starving him.
Haredim have also pasted announcements on walls in their neighborhoods castigating Hadassah and handed out inflammatory leaflets outside the Ein Karem hospital.
Birnbaum, an observant Jew who lives in a religious neighborhood, is being protected by security personnel. Other Hadassah staffers have also been threatened.
The boy, who weighed only 7 kilos at his lowest point, is gradually recuperating; he is gaining weight and is able to feed himself and move about. Hadassah experts said he would almost certainly have died if hospital personnel had not realized after numerous tests and consultations that he had no physical disease and that his mother had apparently prevented him from eating due to Munchausen-by-proxy-syndrome.
Family members and supporters claim the boy had cancer and was given chemotherapy for months, which the hospital categorically denies.
"Hadassah carries out throughout the year, and even now, ongoing contacts with representatives of the Eda Haredit, to preserve the good relationship that has existed for many years with the community," spokeswoman Yael Bossem-Levy said. "We will continue to carry out our mission to give the best medical care through the devotion of our doctors, nurses, social workers and others."
Hadassah "calls on all elements involved to leave the boy and his health outside the discussions and arguments being carried out in the legal sector."
Israel Medical Association chairman Dr. Yoram Blachar also denounced the threats against Hadassah, arguing that what is occurring "brings us back to those dark days in which doctors were persecuted for delivering bad news to patients."
The IMA head said he was very worried about the verbal violence and physical threats and the false claims that Hadassah was responsible for the toddler's condition.
"It is slander against a medical institution that has treated so many people of all walks of life, including haredim, and who owe their lives to the hospital," Blachar added.
As a pediatrician, the IMA head said that he was very impressed by the toddler's improved mood and physical condition since he was separated from his mother a few weeks ago.
"This is not automatic, but due to the excellent care given to the helpless child. His welfare should be the main concern," he said.
To attack Hadassah "causes damage to Israeli society in general," concluded Blachar, who called on the Health, Justice and Internal Security ministries to stand behind the hospital and take firm action against those who have been violent and spread slander.
So if I'm being naive, I'm being naive, but I really don't understand what you're getting at.
ReplyDeleteYou said that the implication from these pieces is that "only chareidim could be so naive as to believe in conspiracy theories."
I don't see that at all.
What about the famous ISRAEL-based Conspiracies?
ReplyDelete1. The Rabin Assasination
2. The Baruch Goldstein
3. Binyamin and Talia Kahane
These are probably more factual then the ones you stated.
I think that maybe this is the point: for other groups, stupid conspiracy theories are a facet of their culture. For some in the Chareidi community, they are principles of the faith.
ReplyDeleteThe Leader, Garnel Ironheart said...
ReplyDeleteI think that maybe this is the point: for other groups, stupid conspiracy theories are a facet of their culture. For some in the Chareidi community, they are principles of the faith.
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Or that for other groups taking conspiracy theories seriously is viewed as addressing logically possible though perhaps far fetched doubts. However when a chareidi does it is taken as further proof that he is not in contact with reality.
Our biology teacher used to say: "La nature a horreur du vide" (nature hates void, ie. every void is filled).
ReplyDeleteThis seems to be true for the media of our time (be it pakeshvilim, Newspaper, Internet, etc).
The legal procedures take time, could be up to 2 years or even more. So there is nothing new to be said about the case. But the public - from the Eida to the chilonim - wants news about the case now. So what do you do? You invent or find stories that are somehow related but not really pertinent to the case at hand.
In two years, when the evidence will be available, the public at large will have forgotten about the case.
That's how those conspiracy theories come about.
If you don't want to be fooled by the propaganda (no matter from which side), the first thing is to discard the smoke screens like this one http://matzav.com/sensationalist-headlines-vs-reality-matzavcom-looks-at-the-case-of-the-meah-shearim-mother/