Kabbala is beyond understanding?

mekubal 's comment to "Agada & Kabbala - learning things beyond comprehen...":

With all due respect to the great Tzadik R' Brody, his explanation is quite simplistic. To say that we are learning basics only for use in the world to come, in many ways is contrary to the initial pledge of the Jewish people, Na'aseh and Nishma. Even in Kabbalah this has been the shita taught to me by luminaries such as R' Kaduri Z"L, R' Shalom Shmueli Shlita and R' Beniyahu Shlita.

There is a level of doing and action, starting in the Kavanot of Tefila. Then extending into the various Tikunim, that coupled with Teshuva and observance of the mitzvot allow us to become proper vessels for the supernal light.

Finally there is the attainment of Ruah HaKodesh, which the sages still tell us is available in every generation, and even in these last generations we have seen such luminaries as R' Sharabi, the Baba Sali and R' Kaduri who attained these lofty heights, and they are the ones who are revealed to the masses. Concealed within the Kabbalistic academies there are many who have also achieved such heights buy hide from public view. People whom I have seen great Gedolim such as R' Yosef or R' Eliashiv come to seek counsel and blessing from.

Obviously these luminaries have a level of understanding of Kabbalistic concepts and workings that baffle the mind. In my studies I ran into a difficulty in the Kavanot of Sephirat HaOmer, excluding the details, I explained my difficulty to one of these Rabbanim and asked for a Teretz(when performing the kavanot these small details can make a world of difference). When I agreed to answer me I broke out my MP3 recorder and notebook. He said, "Its quite simple..." 45min later and with ample notes, I went back to review what he said, to gain the understanding for myself. It took me two weeks to comprehend what he told me, and in all honesty I don't think I managed to internalize it and really understand it, until well after Shavuot.

So there is definitely a level of understanding that is possible even today. In Shaare Kedusha, Helek 2, Shaar2 or 3(sorry I don't remember the exact reference), R' Haim Vital first quotes sources stating that the study of all of Pardes is a Torah injunction. Then he states that on the fateful day of judgment when the heavenly court asked us what did you learn, they will not simply state "what did you learn," rather they will ask, "what did you learn from P'shat, from Remez, from Drash, and most importantly from Sod?" He then states that it will not be the material that we can recount that will be to our benefit and save us from the wrath of angels and reincarnation, but rather it will be what we understood.

Thus if understanding more than elementary concepts is only possible in the days of Mashiah, R' Vital has made it impossible for us to live. There is no hope for us. Rather we must say that in truth, understanding can be achieve, even on rather exulted levels, but as with all Torah, full understanding will only be achieved in the days of Mashiah.

Much as our Rabbis of blessed memory told us concerning Moshe Rabbeinu. In Pirkei Avot, it states Moshe Kibel Torah M'Sinai. The commentators ask why Kibel? The overall answer was he was given all that he was capable of receiving and understanding, but he was not given all the Torah. Even Moshe Rabbeinu, on such a high and exalted level was not capable of understanding it all, even for him that that will have to wait for the days of Mashiah. Is that to say that Moshe Rabbeinu did not understand Torah ChV"Sh? Not at all! It simply tells us that until the days of Mashiah, there is always another level ahead of us.

In fact the Ari Z"L states in Shaar Ruah HaKodesh, Drush 1, that in the last generations before the revelation of Mashiah, many people will achieve a level so close to Moshe Rabbeinu, that it will be nearly indistinguishable.

So then it seems to me that we must in fact say that understanding is possible, and that we can in fact understand a great portion of Sod, far more than the elementals.

Marriage - Halachic Difficulties for a posek

mekubal's comment to "Problem - Cohen wants to marry Giyorus":

All other possibilities aside, Shadchanim are not Rabbis, let alone Rabbis who are able to deal with such complicated issues.

For instance in the Shulchan Aruch it in Even HaEzer, Siman 6 it lists many disqualifications for those who can marry a Kohen. Also typically, l'chatchila, if a woman is Ossur to marry a Kohen so is her daughter. For instance you will find in that Siman that a woman who had relations with a Goy is ossur to a Kohen, but so is her daughter, even if her daughter has no other disqualifications. You will also find that a convert, and the daughter of a convert are ossur to a Kohen. In all seriousness how many Shaddchainim know all of this, or even think to ask it? How many say to a young girl, "So did your mother have relations with a Goy before she married your father?" Also even if her grand-mother were a valid convert would that help l'chatchila? I am no expert but I know that at least in some circles that would still be a problem.

Really all of this is an issue for a Gadol. I ran into a problem much like this in my own life. I married my wife, whose father was not Jewish. We were both frum, and the local Beit Din did not object. We come to Israel, and it finally comes out in a Yeshiva that I was in, about my wife's parentage, and the Rosh Yeshiva goes through the roof. He winds up fighting with my Rosh Yeshiva in the US. R' Eliashiv and R'Yosef both my psakim that the marriage is Kosher, B'dieved(we trusted the Rabbanim and the Beit Din at the time how were we to know there was a problem), but Kosher. The Rosh Yeshiva of the Israeli Yeshiva rejected their opinions and asked me to leave the Yeshiva. So before you judge people, and their motives, understand that there is an uninformed public out there as well as an uniformed Rabbinate.

Anusim II - Demand recognition and acceptance

While I obviously don't agree with the following comment, but at least it clearly expresses what the issue is. Are the Anusim - not Jews unless they can satisfy the conditions of halacha or are they Jews even though they haven't been recognized according to the halacha? Since you insist that the discussion until now is not acceptable - would you please tell us what you think is the acceptable way for the Jewish community to deal with it? In other words are you saying anything more than the Jewish community has no right to pass judgment on your Jewish status?
=========================
drew's comment to "Anusim - Demand recognition and acceptance":

(quote from a previous post)...His family traditions do not constitute proof. Thus he is not a Jew but can't prove it. He is simply not a Jew until he proves it.

As another person in this situation, I will make this very brief. Debating this very serious issue will do us no good if its done in this way. You can't judge us because you are not in our place. You can't say people like us aren't Jews. I assure you, we go through our own doubts without your help. It is total pain. (don't try and use what I just said as leverage to say I myself don't know who or what I am, because again, you are not in this place.) The fact is, its not that we aren't Jews, its that "halachically we can't be recognized as Jews". That's it.

I understand what this means and the suffering it entails, and if anyone else in this situation doesn't understand it, they need as well. However, those of you who are blessed in the way that your Jewishness is "halachically" valid, in that it is halachically revealed, need to understand this. you can't just say "you are not a Jew". living like this is our golus. we suffer enough. This all leads to something much bigger than we all can see right now.

Good Moed
concealed...still...but trusting in HaShem...still.
==================
2nd comment
drew's comment to "Anusim IV - Customs are proof of being Jewish?":

Even,
i just read that you already formally converted. you're still here though making comments about your past. i stand by you...sorta.

unfortunately you won't find the compassion you are looking for but its because you need to look soley to HaShem. you could say "my great grandfather wrote a Torah scroll and mezzuot"...and the reality is...you'll most likely hear that he was a muslim who could have been selling forgeries. i've been through it all myself. its so amazing how people look at the glass half empty instead of saying "wow, HaShem kept/brought this soul here in this way, through all this disaster, this soul is here, this spark is rising".

as jersey girl said, muslims bury nails....but guess what...so do jews. youre told prior to conversion "you are not a jew". fact is...prior to conversion, "halachically", you could not be recognized as a jew, otherwise we throw out the system of halacha and there goes all the order...G-d forbid.

hard advice is, dont look for help, compassion, or understanding from anyone on this except for HaShem. use the pain to make you daven with exceptional kavanah.

you ended up converting...there is no question now, your soul was at sinai....you were right all along.

Good Moed

==============================
3rd comment
drew's comment to "Rabbi Vinas' reply - discussed and rejected I":

out of curiosity....doesnt anyone have faith in the fact that this redemption will be tremendous and that HaShem will return all the sparks that have been lost? thats what bothers me the most about all this. a terrible thing you dont see how great HaShem is. maybe we just dont understand how HaShem is working. if you have all the answers...then be Moshiach and return us to our King cause its torture living like this. realize that we are scattered all over the place and we need HaShem to deliver us. instead of saying we aren't jewish...pray to HaShem to return all that are and be sensitive to us and those trying to help us. its nice and easy with papers saying youre a jew...all doors are open. you have no clue what this is like. i pray HaShem helps you cause at the end of it all, its not paper that makes us jewish, but the neshama that is not bound by the limitations of this world. aren't we supposed to be as numerous as the stars??...the people in this situation are such a small number...people act like every person in the world is saying this. why don't we look at commitment to Torah. regardless of barrier, we are here.

Infertility - Jewish egg market

Haaretz reports
A small but growing number of Jewish Israeli women are traveling to the United States to donate their eggs to infertile Jewish couples undergoing in vitro fertilization - a trend that some say strengthens Jewish continuity but also raises serious moral questions about the
commercialization of fertility.

There are at least three egg donor companies operating in the United States that deal primarily or entirely with Jewish Israeli donors. These companies offer applications and donor information in Hebrew. They also provide staff in America and Israel who are proficient in Hebrew and claim a familiarity with, and sensitivity to, Jewish law.

"When you have your basic right to reproduce taken away from you, you are always going to want to find the thing closest to you," said Judy Weiss, a registered nurse who is the founder of A Jewish Blessing, a New Jersey-based agency that deals exclusively with Jewish donors and recipients. "It's not really about religion. It's about a genetic group, a family. We have a shared history of suffering, a bond. We are part of the same club."

But while demand for Jewish donors' eggs is growing, infertility doctors say that few American Jewish women are willing to go through the process of donating eggs. There are grueling forms to fill out and weeks of psychological and physical screening, and then there's nearly a month of daily hormone injections and close medical supervision. Finally, there's the egg retrieval - a procedure done under anesthesia in which a needle is inserted into the donor's ovaries to pluck the ripe eggs. These eggs, combined with the sperm of the recipient's partner, produce embryos that are inserted back into the uterus of the recipient or inside a gestational carrier.

"I want to help my people grow," a woman who is an egg donor said in an interview with the Forward. (She and five other egg donors interviewed asked to remain anonymous.) But this is more than an altruistic act: While the sale of eggs is forbidden, "compensation" is allowed. Compensation in New York is about $8,000 for a single cycle, during which the donor takes hormone injections and eggs are extracted. The recipient couple or their insurance pays for the medical costs, including the drugs.

"There's definitely a specialty market for Jewish eggs," notes Debora Spar, the new president of Barnard College and the author of the 2006 book "The Baby Business," which is about the political, economic and social issues surrounding reproductive technology. "This is a market that's growing rapidly, partly because it's becoming more acceptable to use donors' eggs - and because it can be a very good solution for women above a certain age."

Spar is troubled by this new intersection between young Israeli donors and older American Jewish women trying to conceive. "There's a moral hazard that if women do increasingly believe they could put off child bearing for longer, they might choose to do so just because it's medically possible," she said.

Others see the relationship in more spiritual terms. "My mission is to explain that donors are women who are giving the most wonderful thing there is to give, and are doing it from the bottom of their hearts," said Ruth Tavor, who opened NY LifeSpring seven years ago to recruit Israeli egg donors after her own long but eventually successful fertility treatment. She now has 203 Israeli donors on file. [...]

Succos - Women banned from celebrations

Bartley Kulp asked :

Can somebody please explain to me the point of all of this? At first I thought that it was just Meah Shearim, but now this.

Jpost: Chabad bans women from Succot event

Responding to haredi pressure, Chabad blocked the participation of women in its Succot celebrations in Jerusalem's Shikun Chabad neighborhood Tuesday night.

Chabad's rabbinical leadership acquiesced to a call by heads of the most important hassidic sects - Ger, Belz, Sanz, Sadigora and Viznitz - to restrict the music and dancing to indoors, effectively preventing women from participating.

Last year Chabad ignored a call by the Lithuanian rabbinic leadership to tone down its festivities.

However, this year for the first time hassidic leaders joined the call.

Chabad, a hassidic sect that is known for its outreach work with assimilated or unaffiliated Jews all over the world, traditionally celebrates outdoor concerts and dancing that targets the wider Jewish population.

Chabad's last rabbinic leader, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson - who passed away in 1994 - vigorously encouraged holding Succot festivities outdoors in the most visible locations possible.

Rabbi Menachem Brod, spokesman for Chabad in Israel, said that Schneerson, known as "the rebbe," directed his followers to "take the Torah from the study halls to streets" on Succot.

"We will continue to follow the rebbe's orders in all locations except Jerusalem, where the local public specifically requested that we respect their sensitivities," he said.

Chabad events at other venues during the holiday will take place outdoors. Both men and women, separated by partitions, will be allowed to participate.

Rabbi Mordechai Bloi, a senior member of the Guardians of Sanctity and Education, an organization based in Bnei Brak that enforces what it sees as normative haredi behavior, praised Chabad.

"The rebbe of Chabad told his hassidim to spread the joy in the streets, but he was not talking about haredi areas," said Bloi. "Let them do what they want in secular areas.

"The Talmud teaches that even in the time of Temple men and women were strictly separated and this was called 'the big tikkun.' I am happy that this year we will have this tikkun in Jerusalem."

Brod said that Chabad respected the call by the rabbis to maintain strict codes of modesty. However, he added that the increasingly stringent demands by haredi rabbis that have effectively brought about a total ban of outdoor concerts might be counterproductive.

"If haredim are not given a kosher option for musical entertainment they might end up turning to non-kosher options," he said. "As a result of the changes we made this year in Jerusalem, women who came to our annual event in the past will be forced to stay home.

"Only time will tell whether or not this is the best policy to adopt," he said. [...]

Why How Matters - Thomas Friedman

New York Times:

I have a friend who regularly reminds me that if you jump off the top of an 80-story building, for 79 stories you can actually think you’re flying. It’s the sudden stop at the end that always gets you.

When I think of the financial-services boom, bubble and bust that America has just gone through, I often think about that image. Wethought we were flying. Well, we just met the sudden stop at the end.The laws of gravity, it turns out, still apply. You cannot tell tens of thousands of people that they can have the American dream — a home, for no money down and nothing to pay for two years — without that eventually catching up to you. The Puritan ethic of hard work and saving still matters. I just hate the idea that such an ethic is more alive today in China than in America.

Our financial bubble, like all bubbles, has many complex strands feeding into it — called derivatives and credit-default swaps — but at heart, it is really very simple. We got away from the basics — from the fundamentals of prudent lending and borrowing, where the lender and borrower maintain some kind of personal responsibility for, and personal interest in, whether the person receiving the money can actually pay it back. Instead, we fell into what some people call Y.B.G. and I.B.G. lending: “you’ll be gone and I’ll be gone” before the bill comes due.

Yes, this bubble is about us — not all of us, many Americans were way too poor to play. But it is about enough of us to say it is about America. And we will not get out of this without going back to some basics, which is why I find myself re-reading a valuable book that I wrote about once before, called, “How: Why How We Do Anything Means Everything in Business (and in Life).” Its author, Dov Seidman, is the C.E.O. of LRN, which helps companies build ethical corporate cultures.

Seidman basically argues that in our hyperconnected and transparent world, how you do things matters more than ever, because so many more people can now see how you do things, be affected by how you do things and tell others how you do things on the Internet anytime, for no cost and without restraint.

“In a connected world,” Seidman said to me, “countries, governments and companies also have character, and their character — how they do what they do, how they keep promises, how they make decisions, how things really happen inside, how they connect and collaborate, how they engender trust, how they relate to their customers, to the environment and to the communities in which they operate — is now their fate.”

We got away from these hows. We became more connected than ever in recent years, but the connections were actually very loose. That is, we went away from a world in which, if you wanted a mortgage to buy a home, you needed to show real income and a credit record into a world where a banker could sell you a mortgage and make gobs of money upfront and then offload your mortgage to a bundler who put a whole bunch together, chopped them into bonds and sold some to banks as far afield as Iceland.[...]

Great Schlep II - Obama & Jewish grandparents / J. Rosenbloom

Jerusalem Post:

The Obama campaign is encouraging Jewish kids to fly Florida to visit their grandparents over Columbus Day weekend. The Web site for the initiative features comedienne Sarah Silverman instructing Jewish youth in Lysistrata tactics: Threaten to withhold future visits unless granny agrees to vote for Barack Obama. Here's another suggestion: Tell them that if they don't vote for Obama, "the goodest person we've ever had as a presidential choice," it can only be because they are racists.

My guess is that bubbie and zaidie will not be too impressed by such bullying; nor should they be. The grandchildren will seek to prove that Obama is good for Israel, but their identification with Israel bears no relationship to that of their grandparents. For them the Holocaust is the stuff of history books, not a living memory. Ditto the UN vote on Israel's creation. They did not huddle around TV sets listening to the UN debates leading up to the 1967 war. Nor do they remember the 10,000 graves dug in Tel Aviv in anticipation of war casualties. Many have never heard of Entebbe. [...]

THE GRANDCHILDREN will cite Obama's high rating from AIPAC as proof of his pro-Israel bona fides. Irrelevant. Every senator with national ambitions has such a high rating, which is based on nothing more than voting for appropriation resolutions. Far more crucial to determining a candidate's likely relationship with Israel as president is his worldview.

Obama views talk as a universal solvent, and seems to believe that most conflicts can be solved by sitting people down around a conference table to air their grievances. That makes him remarkably sanguine about resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict, which he says would be a high priority from day one of his administration. The last time an American president made solving the conflict a high priority, Israel ended up with the Aksa intifada and open warfare.

If Obama thinks there is an easy solution to the conflict, it can only come in one form: Israel's return to its 1967 "Auschwitz borders." He basically confirmed that in a June interview with Jerusalem Post editor David Horovitz, in which he allowed that Israel might justify "67 plus" in terms of a security buffer, "but they've got to consider whether getting that buffer is worth the antagonism of the other party."

Yet an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank would almost surely result in a third Iranian-armed and financed adversary confronting Israel, just as previous withdrawals from southern Lebanon and Gaza led to the takeover of heavily armed Iranian proxies in the form of Hizbullah and Hamas. Israeli security officials estimate that absent an Israeli presence in the West Bank, Hamas would take over there almost as quickly as it seized Gaza.

Not that the Palestinian Authority is much better. Its leader Mahmoud Abbas made a special trip to personally congratulate child-murderer Samir Kuntar on his release from Israeli jail, and the PA recently honored Dalai Mughrabi, the mastermind of the 1978 Coastal Road massacre that killed 37 Israelis.

OBAMA'S FAITH in the power of words is equally dangerous with respect to the Iranian threat. In June, Obama told the AIPAC convention that face-to-face negotiations with Iran would be necessary before any military response could be justified. In the last presidential debate, he dropped any reference to military action and said negotiations must precede any strong sanctions, and must include the Russians and Chinese.

But the Europeans have been engaged in futile, unconditional negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program for six years. If Obama has a better offer to make than they have, he should at least say what it is. As for the Russians and Chinese, they have made clear that their economic interests lie in supporting Iran. Negotiations will do nothing more than provide Iran with more crucial time to perfect its nuclear technology and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with greater internal legitimacy.

So an Obama presidency would likely result in an Israel living within indefensible borders and in the crosshairs of a nuclear Iran. Bubbie and zaidie should tell their progeny that in Jewish tradition wisdom flows from the elders to young, not vice versa.

Great Schlep - Obama & Jewish grandparents

CNN reports:

A Yiddish word meaning to pull, yank or tug, schlep is a good way of describing what it took for Mike Bender to persuade his grandparents to vote for Sen. Barack Obama for president.

Bender's grandparents, Kenny and Selma Furst, 90 and 87 years old, should have been an easy sell to support the Democratic nominee for president.

Like many of the estimated 650,000 Jews living in Florida, the Fursts are lifelong, passionate Democrats and a crucial vote for any Democratic candidate hoping to win the battleground state.

But when Bender -- who is not affiliated with Obama's campaign but supports him -- brought up the idea of voting for Obama over Thanksgiving dinner last year, he was met with an uncharacteristic silence.

"Their reaction was, as they said, 'I'm a little meschugah,' " Bender said, adding that the expression meant "crazy."

For Selma Furst, voting for an African-American for president seemed unthinkable. Watch a "few little known Jewish facts" on Obama »

"I grew up with Jewish people and Italian people, but I never lived in a neighborhood that was black," she said. "Somebody said to me, 'What do you object to about him?' I said, well, truthfully, our colors are different."

Overcoming the prejudices of his grandparents' generation would be difficult, Bender realized. But he was not going to be alone.

Ari Wallach, co-executive director of Jews Vote, a Jewish advocacy group, also said he saw reluctance among some older, traditionally Democratic Jews to support Obama.

But Wallach said it wasn't just a question of race. He cited a months-long misleading Internet campaign that aimed to convince voters that Obama is a Muslim or that he would reverse the United States' policy of supporting Israel. Obama is Christian and says he backs a strong U.S.-Israel relationship.

"The older demographic particularly were being hit with tons and tons of Obama smear e-mails," Wallach said. "If you really want to talk to them in a way that will bring them over to the Obama side, you want to do it one to one, ideally with people they love. And grandparents love no one more than their grandkids."

And so the Great Schlep was born. The idea was that young, Jewish Democrats would flood Florida and convince their elders that voting for Obama was OK. To get the word out about the Great Schlep, Wallach and his colleagues turned to comedian Sarah Silverman. Silverman makes the case for Obama in a Web video in which she attempts to show similarities -- some tenuous -- between an African-American man and an older Jewish woman. She raves about the Democratic candidate's brisket and points out that Barack comes from the Hebrew word for "lightning." Watch the Great Schlep »

The video ends with Silverman advising Obama supporters to let their grandparents know that should they fail to vote Democratic in the presidential election in November, maybe they shouldn't expect many more family visits. [...]

Wall Street crisis & religious fervor

Haaretz reports:

NEW YORK - "I did not need to ask for quiet during the long Musaf service on Yom Kippur," the rabbi of a large Reform synagogue in Manhattan said yesterday. "The worshipers sat withdrawn inside themselves and they looked contemplative and worried."

The rabbis of other large New York synagogues offered similar impressions of the Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur services. Most of these are well-known, long-established synagogues - mainly Reform, some Conservative and a few Orthodox. They are located in an area between 60th and 90th Streets that is known for its wealthy synagogues.

"People said the U'Netane Tokef prayer seriously this year," said Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch of the Reform Movement's Stephen Wise Free Synagogue on West 68th Street in Manhattan. "The words 'who will be impoverished and who will be enriched,' and 'who will be laid low and who will be raised up' resounded throughout the synagogue this year."

And during the rabbis' Yom Kippur sermons, the phrases Days of Awe, repentance, accounting for one's acts all seemed to take on added significance in Manhattan synagogues.

The financial crisis and the stock market collapse clearly set the tone for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur this year. Many of the worshipers at these synagogues are leading brokers and bankers at Wall Street's most respected financial institutions. Others are known for the millions they made from their local businesses.

"In those synagogues, everyone was invested in the stock market," one rabbi said. [...]

Ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Brooklyn, in contrast, were reluctant to talk about the effects of the financial crisis on their congregants. "At least half of the neighborhood's residents were invested in stocks," said one community leader, "but you will not hear a word of complaint or fear to the outside world."

Nevertheless, ultra-Orthodox rabbis in New York fear that the losses will lead to a drop in the contributions that finance their communities' religious education systems, including their flagship yeshivas.

Eternal Jewish Family - Craves attention

Guest Post: Recipients and Publicity's comment to "Eternal Jewish Family - What are they doing these ...":

EJF makes dubious claims about a meeting in Detroit.

The latest Sukkos-edition of the English MODIAH has published an EJF press release in the guise of an article exactly as it has already appeared online on Yeshiva World (September 28, 2008) so this must mean a lot to EJF. But, as usual, a closer scrutiny of the brief article reveals a lot of shaky double speak, deviousness, and misinformation that one wonders if all the rabbis and dayanim contacted by Rabbi Tropper and EJF are not being taken for the ride of their lives, given the numbers of batei din supposedly conscripted by EJF and the supposed scope of it all.

Here is the article as it appears in the MODIAH, a very reputable Torah-true paper, with comments following starting with "RaP":

"HAMODIA.
Community.
8 Tishrei 5769 – October 7, 2008
Page C14.

New EJF-Affiliated Beis Din Established in Detroit

([Photo. Caption reads:] Vaad Harabbanim of Detroit, Eternal Jewish Family agree on geirus standards for beis din. (R-L:) Rabbi Doniel Neustadt, chairman of the Vaad Harrabanim of Detroit; Rabbi Chaim Bergstein, dayan; Rabbi Meilech Silberberg, dayan; Rabbi Ari Kostelitz, dayan; and Rabbi Leib Tropper, chairman of the Rabbinic Committee of EJF (foreground). Also participating was Rabbi Zachariash, former chairman of the Vaad Harabbanim.)

A fully functioning beis din that subscribes to the standards of Gedolei Yisroel on universally accepted conversions will serve Detroit and its environs, representatives of the Vaad Harrabanim of Detroit and the Eternal Jewish Family announced, following a meeting between Rabbi Leib Tropper, chairman of the Rabbinic Board of the EJF, and the Vaad Harrabanim.

The beis din agreed to follow the standards on geirus according to the piskei din of such past and present poskim as Hagaon Harav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l; Hagaon Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l; the Minchas Yitzchak; Hagaon Harav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, shlita, and Hagaon Harav Reuven Feinstein, shlita.

Following his visit to Detroit, Rabbi Tropper said that he was extremely impressed with the caliber of the dayanim and that he had no doubt that ‘it would emerge as one of the model batei din’ around the world. He said he was overwhelmed by ‘the reception and sincerity of the beis din’ in adopting the standards of Gedolei Yisrael on universally accepted conversions.

The Rabbanim and dayanim of the Vaad Harrabanim who participated included Rabbi Doniel Neustadt, Yoshev Rosh of the Vaad Harrabanim; Rabbi Meilech Silberberg; Rabbi Chaim Bergstein, Rabbi Ari Kostelitz, and Rabbi S. Zachariash, former chairman of the Vaad Harrabanim.

The Rabbanim complimented EJF on its accomplishments since its establishment three years ago. They were enthusiastic about becoming part of a growing network of batei din in the U.S., Israel, and Europe that would follow the geirus standards of the leading poskim. The Rabbanim also thanked Mr. Tom Kaplan for his support of this new affiliation between EJF and the beis din.

While EJF does not establish batei din, it works with existing batei din and those in formation that function in accordance with the standards of the foremost Gedolei haTorah. The Detroit beis din, which was established 26 years ago, is the 18th in the worldwide network of batei din that subscribe to the EJF standards. Other batei din are located in Israel and Europe.

In North America, the batei din function in such cities as Baltimore, Monsey, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cleveland, New York, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, Montreal, Miami, Lakewood, Dallas, Toronto, Houston, and Vancouver.”
~~~~~

"HAMODIA.
Community.
8 Tishrei 5769 – October 7, 2008
Page C14."

RaP: This article should have been accurately called: ""Established Detroit Beis Din meets with EJF to discuss conversions" as will be explained below. Notice how the various press-releases are being spread around in various Jewish papers and media sources. At times it's the Jewish Press, or online Jewish media, or papers such as the Modiah that do not publish online, so that all the carefull layering and spread of press releases about this and that meeting between Rabbi Tropper and yet another group of rabbis and dayanim seems to unfold like a forest in bloom. But is it?

"New EJF-Affiliated Beis Din Established in Detroit"

RaP: Why does the first line, the headline, have to start with a borderline lie?! The implication for anyone who reads English is that it is EJF that is setting up this beis din in Detroit when a few paragrpahs down the same piece says that EJF does not set up batei din and that this one in Detroit is 26 years old! So what new tricks is Rabbi Tropper coming to teach them, if any? None, because the news item is not for the rabbis in Detroit, it is part of PR campaign that is costing EJF heavy money to get the message across that EJF is the "only show in town" when thinking of conversions, when it is a false claim to project onto the Orthodox Jewish public, simply because right-wing Haredim and Hasidim such as Satmar or Lubavitch don't care about Rabbi Tropper and his antics, and the left wing Modern Orthodox who use the RCA and its rabbonim and dayonim won't care either, see http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/02/rca-announces-establishment-of.html and http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/07/conversion-crisis-r-angel-r-riskin-try.html and http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/05/80-relgious-zionist-orthodox-rabbis.html as examples, so what is all this trumpet blowing worth, except that it makes Rabbi Tropper into a household name worthy of an Obama PR drive.

"([Photo. Caption reads:] Vaad Harabbanim of Detroit, Eternal Jewish Family agree
on geirus standards for beis din. (R-L:) Rabbi Doniel Neustadt, chairman of the Vaad Harrabanim of Detroit; Rabbi Chaim Bergstein, dayan; Rabbi Meilech Silberberg, dayan; Rabbi Ari Kostelitz, dayan; and Rabbi Leib Tropper, chairman of the Rabbinic Committee of EJF (foreground). Also participating was Rabbi Zachariash, former chairman of the Vaad Harabbanim.)"

RaP: The photo shows how choshuv these Detroit rabbonim really are and how they are sitting with serious faces towards the camera and towards Rabbi Tropper. Neither now nor later are any of them actually quoted verbatim. Why not? Are all these dayanim mute? Iws only Rabbi Tropper abale to verbalize what transpires? Ah yes, "the world (of conversions) according to Tropper, the next chapter"! One wonders what the dayanim are thinking about all this and if they know that Rabbi Tropper and EJF are controversial in the Haredi world and MO world? Do they know that the BADATZ sent letters to RECIPIENTS at many other batei din not get involved with EJF and that EJF and Rabbi Tropper received negative PUBLICITY for their hidden agenda that they spent literal MILLIONS of dollars on to convert the non-Jewish spouses of intermarried couples? Or is all this now not discussed?

"A fully functioning beis din that subscribes to the standards of Gedolei Yisroel on universally accepted conversions will serve Detroit and its environs,"

RaP: But wait, what lies are these, the beis din exists in Detroit for 26 years already and no doubt performing some conversions has been one of it tasks, and they are such ehrliche people that why are they being misrepresented as if Rabbi Tropper is organizing them for the first time to be a "reliable and obedient" beis din on conversions?

"representatives of the Vaad Harrabanim of Detroit and the Eternal Jewish Family announced, following a meeting between Rabbi Leib Tropper, chairman of the Rabbinic Board of the EJF, and the Vaad Harrabanim."

RaP: Question: Rabbi Tropper is referred to here as "chairman of the Rabbinic Board of the EJF" but in the photo caption he is referred to as "chairman of the Rabbinic Committee of EJF" so could someone please explain what is the difference between the "Rabbinic Board" and the "Rabbinic Committee" of EJF? Are they different or are they the same thing and the typist drawing up this info-mercial was perhaps careless? If the EJF "Board" and "Committee" are indeed different, what are the differences and why is Rabbi Tropper "chairman" of BOTH the "Board" and the "Committee"? And who appointed him to these positions that he can sit in judgment as a kind of uber-dayan passing judgment on other dayanim and batei din no less that have presumably been performing their holy work long before Rabbi Tropper and his allies ever dreamed up the EJF junket? This is all very troubling.

"The beis din agreed to follow the standards on geirus according to the piskei din of such past and present poskim as"

RaP: How condescending! Would anyone imagine that such an illustrious beis din with such choshuve rabbonim and dayanim would pasken in any way other than the "piskei din of such past and present poskim"? The sheer chutzpa of this statement actually borders on stupidity because it reveals an utter lack of derech eretz and pathetic paternalism. Does Rabbi Tropper and his yingelach of EJF think that dealing with and writing about a prestigious beis din is like setting up another kiruv program on a forlorn fardorbenne campus and that they are dealing with "student organizers" and pontential kiruv candidates? It is obvious that Rabbi Tropper and the person writing this tatty shameful article are wedded to a bad kind of kiruv paradigm (the paternalistic kind that most BTs intuitively resent and reject) and that they have no clue how to work with batei din. No wonder the rabbis always look glum and unhappy to be in the pictures with Rabbi Tropper since he seems to be treating themeno better than a wild rancher rounding up his select steers to be branded as "his"!

"Hagaon Harav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l; Hagaon Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l; the Minchas Yitzchak; Hagaon Harav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, shlita, and Hagaon arav Reuven Feinstein, shlita."

RaP: Besides the usual pathetic retrocative meaningless invocation of deceased rabbis zt"l who were never involved with EJF, the article introduces a new twist, that the "Minchas Yitzchak" is now another deceased rabbi who approves of EJF. Well, well, the "Minchas Yitzchak" is none other than HaRav HaGaon Yitzchok Yaakov Weiss zt"l who passed away in 1989!!! He became "the Edah Charedis head in 1979 with the death of Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum" of Satmar (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzchok_Yaakov_Weiss ) so now we are being told that perhaps even the Edah Hacharedis and its BADATZ support EJF retroactivly too? What fraud is that? All of which flies in the face of the fact that the BADATZ of today and the heirs and allies of Rav Weiss are the most publicly outspoken group of rabbis denouncing Rabbi Tropper and the EJF, see http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/02/bedatz-letter-regarding-ejf-signed-by.html

"Following his visit to Detroit, Rabbi Tropper said that he was extremely impressed with the caliber of the dayanim"

RaP: This is sheer arrogance and chutzpa. Did he check up on their other activities as well such as hashgochas on foods and restaurants? Who is he to "judge" these dayanim? What formula does he use to arrive at being happy or not with reputable dayanim? What kind of ne-man-show is this? It is beyond a joke, it is a caricature of a grand inquisitor.

"and that he had no doubt that ‘it would emerge as one of the model batei din’ around the world. He said he was overwhelmed by ‘the reception and sincerity of the beis din’ in adopting the standards of Gedolei Yisrael on universally accepted conversions."

RaP: Oh, and until he turned up in Detroit they were not going by what Gedolei Yisroel were saying? Give us all a break please! The chutzpa just never stops, and it is surprising that the dayanim in such photos don't tell him to get lost and to aplogize for writing such childish drivel in fake news releases that he and EJF spread all over the world with the services of professional hired-gun PR companies, including that of Rabbi Tropper's own sister in law, and supported by the Kaplan Millions.

"The Rabbanim and dayanim of the Vaad Harrabanim who participated included
Rabbi Doniel Neustadt, Yoshev Rosh of the Vaad Harrabanim; Rabbi Meilech Silberberg; Rabbi Chaim Bergstein, Rabbi Ari Kostelitz, and Rabbi S. Zachariash, former chairman of the Vaad Harrabanim."

RaP: All well known and honorable rabbonim who do NOT need a haskama from the frenetic globetrotting Reb Leib Tropper. Question: Why was Rabbi Zachariash camera shy? Maybe he knows something the others don't? But his name is dragged into it willy-nilly.

"The Rabbanim complimented EJF on its accomplishments since its establishment three years ago. They were enthusiastic about becoming part of a growing network of batei din in the U.S., Israel, and Europe that would follow the geirus standards of the leading poskim."

RaP: Note how there are no verbatim quotes on the record, just secoind hand descriptions by an unkown writer of this poor PR piece. Such babyish words it's astounding. For heaven's sake, these are major rabbonim and they are being made to sound like puppets and they are endorsing some kind of new fangled product of their master. And by the way, how exactly is Rabbi Tropper and EJF to "lead" this ever growing list of batei din? By Email? IM? Fax? Teleconference? All expenses paid meetings paid by the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation? How does that reconcile with not taking shochad, or is that a minor technicality?

"The Rabbanim also thanked Mr. Tom Kaplan for his support of this new affiliation between EJF and the beis din."

RaP: What? They thanked who? Why? For what? Is he the "posek" of note here? And do they know he is NOT a "Mr" but a very smart PhD with an agenda, see ttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/02/who-is-behind-eternal-jewish-family.html Do they know that Dr. Tom Kaplan is not neutral in the EJF saga, he has sponsored all expenses paid get-aways in fancy hotels ("kiruv" to GOYIM) by "reaching out" to the NON-Jewish spouses in intermarriages to convince to obtain Orthodox conversions? Are all these batei also signing on to THOSE goals, so nicely concealed behind all the talk about following poskim and deceased rabbis zt"l? Are the batei din hooking up with EJF aware that when the BADATZ came out against EJF's mission that EJF cancelled its controversial get aways for mixed marriage couples and PR events for rabbis? see http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/03/eternal-jewish-family-conference-in_27.html

"While EJF does not establish batei din, it works with existing batei din and those in formation that function in accordance with the standards of the foremost Gedolei haTorah. The Detroit beis din, which was established 26 years ago, is the 18th in the worldwide network of batei din that subscribe to the EJF standards. Other batei din are located in Israel and Europe."

RaP: So far this is the first honest statement and it should have been the lead. The heading of the article should correctly have said "Established Detroit Beis Din meets with EJF to discuss conversions" and not like it makes it sound that some great gedila was achieved. Nothing has changed, just that Rabbi Tropper rode into town, and naturally a photographer was ready to snap a pic and a press release was concocted and sent out to a few prize Jewish news outlets about what was in essence a minor meeting, one of thousands between Orthodox rabbis working with conversions on a daily basis and doing the best they can.

"In North America, the batei din function in such cities as Baltimore, Monsey, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cleveland, New York, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, Montreal, Miami, Lakewood, Dallas, Toronto, Houston, and Vancouver."

RaP: Ok, so there is Yiddishkeit and there are rabbonim, batei din and dayanim in those cities, but that does not mean that Rabbi Tropper should be allowed to falsely project himself as some kind of "chief rabbi in charge of all Orthodox conversions" when he is clearly not.

Problem - Cohen wants to marry Giyorus

I recently received the following email - what would you advise the young lady?

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MSR wrote

bs"d

Rabbi Eidensohn,

I saw your profile on "blogger.com" and I saw an article you wrote about this non-Jewish lady converting so she could marry a cohen.

I'm going through some issues as well, and I wonder if you could enlighten me a little bit. I don't mean to take your precious time, I know you must be a very busy person, but I would really appreciate it if you take some time.

Thank you very much,

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I responded:

I will be try to answer you to the best of my ability. Since your concerns are of interest to those who read my blog, I will post your letter - without any identifying information - so that others can contribute and gain. It would be helpful if you clarify precisely what issues are you going through. Please let me know a little about your background so I can adjust my comments to be more relevant for you.

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MSR responded:

Thank you very much, Rabbi Eidensohn. And I do wish to remain anonymous. My family and I converted a long time ago, when I was 8 years old. We never say we converted, since my mothers mother converted as well (but she had a convervative convertion) so when my parents decided to become more frum they told us we had to convert again.

Two years ago I met this boy and we saw that we both were suitable for marriage, we went out for two months and only after I found out he was a Cohen. Obviously I was emotionally attached to that person.

Now, we've been trying to break up, not talk, even change our phone numbers, but still we can't stop seeing/talking/and wanting to get married. He told me that if he doesn't marry he's not going to marry anybody, and he has proved me that by rejecting several Shidduchim. We both are so desperate, we both also come from very religious families so we're afraid of the impact.

What can we do?