https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/326341
A Lebanese born man who found himself at the center of a scandal in Brooklyn’s Syrian Jewish community last year is in Israel now, and has declared his intentions to spend the rest of his life in the Jewish state.
In October 2021, Eliya Hawila married a young Syrian-Jewish woman in Brooklyn, New York in an Orthodox Jewish ceremony – despite having been raised in a Shi’ite Muslim family in southern Lebanon.
Shortly thereafter, Hawila’s bride and her family discovered his background, with the couple separating and news of the ‘Lebanese groom’ sending shockwaves through the Orthodox community.
Hawila later apologized for the deception, but insisted he is sincere in his desire to live as an Orthodox Jew, and said he hopes to reconcile with his estranged wife.
In early April 2022, however, a Brooklyn rabbi who investigates questions regarding Jewish ancestry found that Hawila was in fact born Jewish.
Torah thought daf hayomi just now Yevamot 46b-47a
ReplyDelete“ Our Rabbis taught: As it might have been assumed that if a man came and said, I am a proselyte. He is to be accepted [as a legitimate proselyte, and he should require no [initiation ceremonial]. Hence it was specifically stated in the Scriptures With thee [Lev. XIX, 33. And if a proselyte (rd E.V., ‘stranger’) sojourn with thee.], only when he is well known to thee. Whence is it inferred that if he came, and had his witnesses with him, [that his word is accepted]? It was specifically stated in Scripture, And if a proselyte sojourn . . . in your land [Ibid., i.e., as long as he is in your land even if he is not well known to you]. From this I only know [that the law is applicable] within the Land of Israel, whence is it inferred [that it is also applicable] within the countries outside the Land? It was specifically stated in Scripture, With thee, i.e., wherever he is with thee. If so, why was the Land of Israel specified? In the Land of Israel proof must be produced; outside the Land of Israel no such proof need be produced; these are the words of R. Judah. But the Sages said: Proof must be produced both within the Land of Israel and outside the Land.”
Beautiful fantastic. I love Rabbi Judah here even though the law is as the Sages. To Rabbi Judah outside of Israel someone says I converted whatever no proof needed.
When I made Aliyah July 9, 1991 I showed the authorities my Mother’s cuthobah, proof I’m a Jew. I thought Susan would join me to live in the large rented apartment we planned together...
Bravo “The 'Lebanese Groom' arrives in Israel” “Rabbi Avraham Reich spoke with Hawila’s grandmother, and was able to verify that his maternal line is Jewish, which, under traditional Jewish law, makes Hawila a born Jew.”
Sounds like my story. He wants to live in Israel. Why is she not joining him? Does she want a divorce? I hope not. Do her parents want a divorce? Ridiculous.
Given the background of the story, I wonder if this woman is even Halachically considered to be an Eishes Ish, and if she even needs a Get from this impostor.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, by declaring this guy Jewish, the alleged Beis Din actually played into his hands and did a disservice to the victim, as he can now refuse to give her a Get, and she will be stuck and unable to remarry without a Get from him. What a sad state of affairs!
Even if the tale he spins about his maternal line being Jewish, is true, why should she want to go back to a liar?
Marriage is based on mutual trust; and he has proven that he can’t be trusted to tell the truth, when he wants to get his own way.
The fact is; that as a known Muslim, he used subterfuge and trickery to be able to take advantage of a poor Jewish girl, and got her to marry him under false pretenses.
As soon as she found out that he lied to her, and that he really was a Muslim, she left him. She was traumatized by the ordeal, and is undergoing therapy to deal with her situation. I wish her well, and hope that she is able to heal from this ordeal.
My theory. We can apply the leniency of Rabbi Judah Yevamot 47a: In the Land of Israel proof must be produced; outside the Land of Israel no such proof need be produced; these are the words of R. Judah.
ReplyDeleteThe law is that a single expert can rule as bet din in certain cases: “Rabbi Avraham Reich spoke with Hawila’s grandmother, and was able to verify that his maternal line is Jewish, which, under traditional Jewish law, makes Hawila a born Jew.”
No basis here to annul the marriage “Hence a man leaves his father and mother, and clings to his wife, so that they become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24).
Do not devise harm against your fellow Who lives trustfully with you. Do not quarrel with a man for no cause, When he has done you no harm. (Proverbs 3:29--30).
“They married Moabite women, one named Orpah and the other Ruth; and they lived there about ten years. Then those two---Mahlon and Chilion---also died, so the woman was left without her two sons and without her husband.” (Ruth 1:4-5).
The facts are not in dispute “In October 2021, Eliya Hawila married a young Syrian-Jewish woman in Brooklyn, New York in an Orthodox Jewish ceremony”
No IsraelReader and no KA who up-ticked IsraelReader: Eliya Hawila is not an imposter = a person who pretends to be someone else in order to deceive others, especially for fraudulent gain.
Yes if the young Syrian-Jewish woman in Brooklyn wants to be free of her husband, she’ll need a get.
I’m trying to prove in NYS Court of Appeals that my ex-wife Susan’s 2013 NYS civil divorce is a fraud and should be annulled. Why? I gave Susan, on her request, a get 2/17/1993 before witnesses in Rabbi Ralbag’s court.
Susan’s website advises angry wives to file for a civil divorce to create pressure on the husband to give a get and give in on money demands. Looks to me the young Syrian-Jewish woman in Brooklyn may have a multi-millionaire father, much like Susan’s father.
Looks to me a question of money here. In my case I never thought of money. Eliya Hawila may be thinking of money. As outsiders my advice: “17. He who passes by, and meddles in a quarrel not his own, is like one who takes a dog by the ears.” {Proverbs 26:17}
Besides for the fact, that I don’t know 100% of the details of the story, I’m also not a Poseik, so whatever I say/said on this topic, is pure conjecture.
ReplyDeleteIn order for a woman to be considered an Eishes Ish, we need to have before us Jewish man and a Jewish woman, who performed an act of Kiddushin, in the presence of two kosher witnesses.
In this case, the man had no presumption of Jewishness. The Chabad rabbis that he was involved with, had no idea if he was Jewish, and clearly said so afterwards. When his true identity was revealed, then there was nothing further to talk about, since a non-Jew can’t create Kiddushin.
He now spun a tale about finding out that his maternal line being Jewish.
We have no way to verify if this claim is true. Since he was a proven liar in the past, we have no reason to believe anything coming out of his mouth.
We also don’t know if he coached his grandmother what kind of story to tell the rabbis. Nor do we know if the rabbi was qualified to ferret out possible liars.
As such, we have no presumption (Chazaka) of the male’s Jewishness, whose alleged act of Kiddushin would take the woman out of her Chazaka as a single woman.
The fact that he later underwent Giyur Lechumra, does not change the fact, that at the time of the alleged Kiddushin, he was Halachically, Be’Chezkas Goy. Therefore, at best/worst, we merely have a Safeik Kiddushin.
Add to the mix, the safeik of Mekach Ta’us; for where a strong argument can be made, that no woman would want to remain to live with a snake, a pathological liar, who pretended to be Jewish, when he knew that he wasn’t Halachically considered a Jew, and used his deceit to sexually take advantage of a Jewish woman.
It also would conform to R’ Moshe Feinstein’s criteria, that the woman leaves the man as soon as she finds out the man’s blemish.
We now have a double Safeik (S’fek S’feika), which many rabbis, such as R’ Ovadia Yoseif, commonly invoke to resolve halachic questions in a lenient manner.
Again, I’m not a Poseik, but these are some of the points which the Poskim probably need to consider.
This Lebanese Arab, wantonly pretended to be a Yehudi, in order to deceive the woman to allow herself to get married and sexually submit herself to him. That is snake-like behavior, and this piece of slime doesn’t deserve any sympathy from us.
ReplyDeleteThe facts are in very much in dispute. A wedding ceremony with a non-Jew, is invalid, and does not create Kiddushin. Since there was no presumption of marriage here, the woman likely does not require a Get.
Why only "likely"? A so-called "marriage" with a goy is certainly invalid.
ReplyDeleteOf course, a so-called "marriage" with a Goy is invalid.
ReplyDeleteHowever the impostor, and the Beis Din that he found, have complicated matters, by declaring, that due to a tale told by a presumed non-Jewish woman, who has a vested interest in helping her grandson; therefore in reality, he was Jewish all along, and retroactively the Kiddushin was valid.
So now the debate will start, is that new tale enough of a factor to change the dynamics of the case, and would Halachically require her to receive a Get, in order to be able to move on with her life?
There's a TV show here just waiting to be made...
ReplyDeleteDepends on which posek you ask.
ReplyDeleteBravo “The Lebanese Groom arrives in Israel” Baba Bathra 91a
ReplyDelete“And so said R. Simeon b. Yohai: Elimelech, Mahlon and Chilion were [of the] great men of their generation, and they were [also] leaders of their generation. Why, then, were they punished? Because they left Palestine for a foreign country; for it is written , And all the city was astir concerning them, and the women said: Is this Naomi? What [is meant by] Is this Naomi? R. Isaac said: They said, Did you see what befell Naomi who left Palestine for a foreign country?”
תלמוד בבלי מסכת בבא בתרא דף צא עמוד א
ר"ש בן יוחאי אומר: אלימלך, מחלון וכליון, גדולי הדור היו ופרנסי הדור היו, ומפני מה נענשו? מפני שיצאו מארץ לחוצה לארץ, שנאמר: ותהם כל העיר עליהן ותאמרנה הזאת נעמי. מאי הזאת נעמי? א"ר יצחק, אמרו: חזיתם, נעמי שיצאת מארץ לחו"ל מה עלתה לה?
My theory. Mahlon and Chilion were one of the gadol hador גדולי הדור היו were scholars and religious. They held the minority view of Rabbi Judah
It was specifically stated in Scripture, With thee, i.e., wherever he is with thee. If so, why was the Land of Israel specified? In the Land of Israel proof must be produced; outside the Land of Israel no such proof need be produced; these are the words of R. Judah.
Mahlon and Chilion converted Orpha and Ruth with a mikveh and acceptance of the laws of the Torah and married them and wrote a kethubah for each all without witnesses. Mahlon and Chilion felt that outside of Israel this is OK. Mahlon and Chilion hoped to have many children all Jews because Orpha and Ruth converted. It was deep depression times in Israel.
I’m in the upcoming issue of Modern Economy vol. 13 no. 5. Title: Thought Experiment Transfer Pricing Alternatives in Corporation under Demand Fluctuations.
I write there:
The Talmud discusses a depression in wine and olive oil in Palestine and linen in Babylon, the manufacturing industries at the time, the major sources of income for the people. The Talmud calls for crying out to God when prices are ruinously low\footnote{Baba Bathra 91a}:
“Our Rabbis taught: Public prayers are offered for goods [which have become dangerously cheap], even on the Sabbath. R. Johanan said: For instance linen garments in Babylon and wine and oil in Palestine. R. Joseph said: This [is only so] when [these have become so] cheap that ten are sold at [the price of] six.”
Follow Moe Ginzburg, KA, IsraelReader, Garnel?
There is no Halacha that people can self-identify as a Jew. Either you are one, by birth or valid conversion; or you aren’t.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, we now know that this Lebanese Arab was a stinking con-man; a bona fide Goy, who was masquerading as a Yehudi. He lied through his teeth, to achieve his goals, and nothing would stop him in his quest of being able to marry the Jewish woman he desired.
He now claims to have undergone a bona-fide conversion. That’s fine. According to the Beis Din, he is now considered a Jew, and is obligated to keep the Torah. But that doesn’t mean that the Jewish woman who he defrauded, is chained to him. Nor would I recommend any woman to marry him, given his proclivity to lying, whenever he feels the need to do so.
Trust and respect need to be earned. In my opinion, so far, he has earned neither.
Are you guessing the names of Poskim?
ReplyDeleteAre there other pros and cons, that I might have left out?
“a Brooklyn rabbi who investigates questions regarding Jewish ancestry found that Hawila was in fact born Jewish.” Yevamot 47b
ReplyDelete“The Master said, If a man desires to become a proselyte . . . he is to be addressed as follows: What reason have you for desiring to become a proselyte . . . and he is made acquainted with some of the minor, and with some of the major commandments. What is the reason? In order that if he desire to withdraw let him do so [lit., that if he separates let him separate.]; for R. Helbo said: Proselytes are as hard for Israel [to endure] as a sore [ ספחת cf. Lev. XIII, 2], because it is written in Scripture. And the proselyte [ הגר (E.V., stranger)] shall join himself with them, and they shall cleave [ונספחו of the same rt. as ספחת (v. supra note 7), they will be like a sure] to the house of Jacob [15a. XIV, 1. Cf. Kid. 70b, Nid. 13a. infra 109b. An influx of proselytes tends to lower the moral standards of Judaism].”
My theory. An influx of proselytes such as Eliya Hawila is part of a huge blessing, “But the Lord will pardon Jacob, and will again choose Israel, and will settle them in their own soil. And strangers shall join them וְנִלְוָה הַגֵּר עֲלֵיהֶם, and they shall cleave וְנִסְפְּחוּ to the House of Jacob.” (Isaiah 14:1)
ישעיהו פרק יד פסוק א
כִּי יְרַחֵם יְקֹוָק אֶת יַעֲקֹב וּבָחַר עוֹד בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וְהִנִּיחָם עַל אַדְמָתָם וְנִלְוָה הַגֵּר עֲלֵיהֶם וְנִסְפְּחוּ עַל בֵּית יַעֲקֹב:
Daf hayomi Yevamot near the end of Chapter 4 discusses marriage with a non-Jewish captive of war. I like R. Simeon b. Eleazar
Yevamot 48a
“R. Papa demurred: It might be suggested that the Rabbis were heard [to forbid forcible conversion to Judaism] in respect of a woman of goodly form [V. Deut. XXI, 11] only [The text from Deut. XXI, 23. cited supra deals with such a woman], because she [prior to conversion] is under no obligation to observe the commandments; but that in respect of a slave [who has been with an Israelite for some time and has in consequence become subject to the commandments that are incumbent upon such a slave], who is under the obligation of observing commandments, even the Rabbis agree [That no acceptance is needed, and that the slave may be forced into observance of the commandments]! For it was indeed taught. Both a proselyte and a slave bought from an idolater must make [at the time of his ablution as proselyte or slave respectively] a declaration of acceptance]. Thus it follows [since slave is qualified by the condition of bought from an idolater] that a slave bought from an Israelite need not make a declaration of acceptance [of the observance of the commandments]. Now, whose view is this? If that of R. Simeon b. Eleazar, he, surely, had stated that even a slave bought from an idolater need make no declaration of acceptance [He can be forced into the observance of the commandments]!
My theory. R. Simeon b. Eleazar says that only slaves can be forced to keep Torah commandments, not converts. A Jewish man that marries the non-Jewish captive of war cannot force her to keep Torah. She’s the harlot, the gold digger, to trap a good man. “There shall be no harlot of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a sodomite of the sons of Israel.” (Deuteronomy 23:18).
no, just that they don't always agree
ReplyDelete“a Brooklyn rabbi who investigates questions regarding Jewish ancestry found that Hawila was in fact born Jewish.”
ReplyDeleteI'm not impressed with such media reports. The timing of these reports is very suspicious. Where was his grandmother all along? We also don’t know, if the impostor coached his grandmother on what kind of story to tell the rabbi. Nor do we know what makes the rabbi qualified to investigate questions regarding Jewish ancestry, and if he's skilled enough to ferret out possible liars.
So all in all, you’ll need something more substantive to convince me.
Reminds of a famous case where "mamzerim" were cleared...
ReplyDeleteAlso, this doesn’t diminish the fact, that before he was aware of the possibility that his maternal grandmother was Jewish, he perpetrated a massive fraud against a Jewish woman, which is something for which he needs to pay for. So instead of being taken to task for not owning the problems he created, he brazenly is branding himself as some sort of folk hero. That’s disgusting!
ReplyDeleteBravo The Groom arrives in Israel. My theory. The bride has bad friends: IsraelReader, Garnel, MoeGinsburg, and KA. I’ll explain.
ReplyDeleteשמות פרשת יתרו פרק יט פסוק יז
וַיּוֹצֵא מֹשֶׁה אֶת הָעָם לִקְרַאת הָאֱלֹהִים מִן הַמַּחֲנֶה וַיִּתְיַצְּבוּ בְּתַחְתִּית הָהָר:
רש"י שמות פרשת יתרו פרק יט פסוק יז
בתחתית ההר - לפי פשוטו ברגלי ההר. ומדרשו שנתלש ההר ממקומו ונכפה עליהם כגיגית:
Shabbath 88a
“And they stood under the mount: R. Abdimi b. Hama b. Hasa said: This teaches that the Holy One, blessed be He, overturned the mountain upon them like an [inverted] cask, and said to them, If ye accept the Torah, tis well; if not, there shall be your burial.”
“Moses led the people out of the camp toward God, and they took their places at the foot of the mountain.” (Exodus 19:17).
R. Simeon b. Eleazar says that only slaves can be forced to keep Torah commandments, not converts. A Jewish man that marries the non-Jewish captive of war cannot force her to keep Torah. We were slaves to God at Mount Sinai. As the right of a master, God, forced us to accept Torah at Mount Sinai.
October 2021 Eliya Hawila married the daughter of a multi-millionaire powerful man in Brooklyn. After the marriage bad friends sent shockwaves throughout the Orthodox community. Eliya Hawila is now in Israel pleading with his wife to join him in Israel. Sounds like my story. I was pleading up until the get 2/17/1993 for Susan to join me in Israel as she promised. Susan had bad friends. Mendel Epstein, Irwin and Rivka Haut and others explained to Susan that if Susan goes to Israel, she’ll be the bad guy, I’ll have the upper hand. No no they said to Susan, file for a NYS divorce or else you’ll be a slave to him your life.
I see by the comments IsraelReader, Garnel, MoeGinsburg, and KA they are advising Eliya Hawila’s wife not to step foot in Israel. They’re bad friends. They explain to her how bad for her to live in Israel. Oh no Eliya Hawila may get a small part of her father's huge fortune. He's getting on in years and there are so many children and grandchildren who urgently need financial security etc. These children and grandchildren are telling her not to step foot
in Israel until the mashiach.
Remember, you should not judge one case by the facts of another case.
ReplyDeleteI’m on Eliya Hawila side 100%. Torah thought haftorah Kedoshim “To Me, O Israelites, you are just like the Ethiopians---declares the Lord. True, I brought up Israel from the land of Egypt, But also the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir. Behold, the Lord God has His eye upon the sinful kingdom: I will wipe it off the face of the earth! But I will not wholly wipe out the House of Jacob---declares the Lord. For, I will give the order and shake the House of Israel---through all the nations---As one shakes [sand] in a sieve [a course sieve for cleaning grain of straw and stones, or sand of pebbles and shells], and not a pebble falls to the ground. All the sinners of My people shall perish by the sword, who boast,:Never shall the evil overtake us or come near us. In that day, I will set up again the fallen booth of David: I will mend its breaches and set up its ruins anew. I will build it firm as in the days of old.” (Amos 19:7-11)
ReplyDeleteHertz Chumash p. 509 “as the children of the Ethiopians. Two great teachings are here enunciated. The first is: God has guided other nations as well as the Israelites. All races are equally dear to Him; and the hand of Providence is seen not only in the migration of Israel, but in every historical movement. The second teaching is, God’s special relationship to Israel rest on moral foundations. Degenerate Israel is no more to God than the despised inhabitants of distant Ethiopia, the descendants of Ham.”
“When Noah woke up from his wine and learned what his youngest son had done to him, he said: Cursed be Canaan; the lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers.” (Genesis 9:24-25).
Beautiful fantastic. Wow do we love Amos “The words of Amos, a sheep-breeder from Tekoa, who prophesized concerning Israel in the reigns of Kings Uzziah of Judah and Jeroboam son of Joash of Israel, two years before the earthquake [see Zech. 14.5].” (Amos 1:1).
After the groom faked his status as a Jew, when he knew all along that he was a Lebanese Arab, the bride’s good friends sent shockwaves throughout the Orthodox community, revealing the nefarious fraud perpetrated by this piece of slime.
ReplyDeleteHe is now in Israel pleading with his wife to join him in Israel. Ha, ha, ha. In his delusion, he doesn’t realize that she isn’t his wife, and never was, and has nothing to come to Israel for.
He should be sued for all that he has, and be made an extreme example of, so that others will be deterred from trying to pull off similar types of fraud.
If you’re on Eliya Hawila side 100%, then you don't have an ounce of compassion for the Jewish woman victim, who was tricked by a Goy, into sleeping with him.
ReplyDeleteSuch a depraved attitude; is a sign of a very sick man.
Shame on you!
if he is halachic Jew, we have a problem. This was the problem in the langer case. If the father was a valid convert, the children would be mamzerim. In that case there were heavyweight poskim saying he's a kosher Jew. In this case, some unheard of guy is claiming he's a Jew.
ReplyDeleteSo let him marry Tiffany Hadish. She's just about as Jewish as him.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but now there is such a category. The other day I saw a report that the latest world population of Jews is 15.2 million. That number should frighten people.
ReplyDeleteIn 1945 the world Jewish population was about 12 million. That was 77 years ago. In 77 years our population increased by just under 27%. Meanwhile in Gaza, as a result of the ongoing Israeli "genocide" the population doubled in about 50 years. the population doubled. That's 100%.
Now, look at American stat's (and assume they're the same for Canada and Western Europe). You have "Jews" who have a Jewish father but a Gentile mother and the Reformers tell them they're Jewish. You have these "Humanist Jews" who, on principle, don't believe in God (chalilah). You have how many non-Orthodox converts in the West and in Israel. And now the new category of "Jews by choice" where a person feels he or she is Jewish and just announces it. Presto! (cf. Tiffany Hadish)
If you take all those people out, what happens to our total population? Has it even budged since 1945? And if it hasn't, what does that tell us? After all, the Orthodox are pumping out more babies as fast as we can, right, yet the population fails to rise. That's scary.
Tiffany's mother is a non-Jewish African American, and I don't know that either of them had any form of Orthodox conversion. So if you need the services of a Shabbos Goy, Tiffany Hadish would be a good candidate for that, le'Mehadrin.
ReplyDeleteWhereas this Lebanese guy, regardless of his past status, allegedly recently underwent an Orthodox conversion, by some Beis Din in Boro Park, and there is a letter attesting to that. Therefore, by his own claim, he is now prohibited from marrying a non-Jewish woman.
In my book, there is a legitimate form of “Jew by Choice”, which is the case of a sincere convert to Judaism, under Orthodox auspices. Otherwise, it’s a sham.
ReplyDeleteAssimilation in the USA (and worldwide) is indeed a massive problem. It has been said, that in the USA alone, more people have been lost to assimilation, than were destroyed in the Holocaust.
That's a spiritual holocaust!
If you want to grow the Jewish People, it needs to be done organically. Encourage young singles to marry Jewish, and not to desert their people by intermarrying with non-Jews.
Once they're married, they need to embrace the noble ideal of parenting, and be willing to bear and raise a Jewish family, and not to suffice with a mere child and a pet, per family.
I see parallels with Eliya Hawila and midrash of our Sages. My theory. We were goyim at Mount Sinai and God raised the mountain over our heads and forced us to accept Torah. Beautiful. God freed us from Egypt and God forced us to be His slaves. We had the Mishkan and Moses, Aaron, and Miriam leaders...outside of Israel.
ReplyDeleteIn Israel two righteous. of the gadol hador גדולי הדור היו, Mahlon and Chilion held the minority view of Rabbi Judah and married two non-Jewish girls, Orpah and Ruth. In the minority view of Rabbi Judah outside of Israel no proof needed of a true conversion. Mahlon and Chilion didn’t use force as God did with us at Mount Sinai. Mahlon and Chilion persuaded Orpah and Ruth to Torah and to go to a mikvah etc. Mahlon and Chilion ruled as leading poskim no witnesses needed for the conversion of Orpah and Ruth and for Mahlon and Chilion marriage to Orpah and Ruth. Beautiful.
I see parallels with Eliya Hawila and the 30-year still running Aranoff v Aranoff in NYS Court of Appeals. Yes I’m now on the offensive claiming divorce fraud in the Judge Prus 2013 9/10/2013 bogus NYS civil divorce. Follow IsraelReader, KA, Garnel, MoeGinsburg? Once before the 2/17/1993 divorce I was in Israel and Susan down in Brooklyn---a fellow took the phone from me and said to Susan: He’s in Israel so he has the upper hand. I’m the victim. My proof? Susan stole my TIAA pension 55% from early 1994 with no end in sight. Thank God I moved on immediately after my divorce: wonderful married Yemima, blessed with children, wonderful success in my research. Just Google me.
IsraelReader, KA, Garnel, MoeGinsburg you take Eliya Hawila wealthy young bride’s side. Why? “You shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the feelings heart of the stranger, having yourselves been strangers in the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 23:9).
The quickie so-called conversion by the anonymous "beis din", who refuses to identify the alleged three "dayanim", raises more questions than answers as to whether the purported proceedings have any validity under halacha.
ReplyDeleteNot all Orthodox "conversions" are created equal. Calling an alleged conversion "Orthodox" does not necessarily convey legitimacy by simply using or applying the Orthodox label or brand.
ReplyDeleteNo to David Kerzner on so-called conversion and on so-marriage. What we have here is a false flag operation where she is putting the blame on Eliya Hawila to unfairly oppress him, a convert.
ReplyDeleteThis is a violation of “You shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the feelings heart of the stranger, having yourselves been strangers in the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 23:9).
A false flag operation is an act committed with the intent of disguising the actual source of responsibility and pinning blame on another party.
The term "false flag" originated in the 16th century as a purely figurative expression to mean "a deliberate misrepresentation of someone's affiliation or motives". It was later used to describe a ruse in naval warfare whereby a vessel flew the flag of a neutral or enemy country in order to hide its true identity. The tactic was originally used by pirates and privateers to deceive other ships into allowing them to move closer before attacking them. It later was deemed an acceptable practice during naval warfare according to international maritime laws, provided the attacking vessel displayed its true flag once an attack had begun.
The term today extends to include countries that organize attacks on themselves and make the attacks appear to be by enemy nations or terrorists, thus giving the nation that was supposedly attacked a pretext for domestic repression and foreign military aggression.
Similarly deceptive activities carried out during peacetime by individuals or nongovernmental organizations have been called false flag operations, but the more common legal term is a "frameup", "stitch up", or "setup".
If you want to take that to the extreme, there are probably hundreds of millions of "Jews" because all the women from the exiled Ten Tribes kept having Jewish babies too.
ReplyDeleteBut it's not enough to encourage young singles to marry Jews. It's actually a very different method that works.
A nurse I work with once asked me why Jews didn't want to marry non-Jews. I explained that it wasn't because they weren't good enough but because our lifestyles wouldn't mesh. I keep kosher so I can't eat in your home or your parent's home. I won't go into a church so I can't celebrate your religion or holidays with you. I can't hold your hand or even be alone with you in private, forget the steamier stuff. How long do you think such a romantic relationship could last? Teach children Jewish Torah patriotism and they'll have no choice but to marry other Jewish Torah patriots.
(Hey, I like that term. Okay, now it's mine. (tm)!)
"there are probably hundreds of millions of "Jews" because all the women from the exiled Ten Tribes"
ReplyDeletemay well be. That is for Moshiach to decode.
Can you elaborate on that, why not all Orthodox conversions are created equal?
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that they refuse to identify the alleged three "dayanim", and why does it make a difference?
ReplyDeleteTorah thought daf hayomi Yevamot 50b
ReplyDelete“Their difference [That of R. Gamaliel and the Sages in our Mishnah] concerns only a letter of divorce after another letter of divorce and a ma'amar after another ma'amar, but one letter of divorce to one sister-in-law or one ma'amar to one sister-in-law is valid [The divorce prevents subsequent levirate marriage under the prohibition of ‘that doth not build’ etc. (v. supra p. 328, n. 4, second clause); and the ma'amar prevents the levirate marriage of a rival under the injunction, a levir may build one house but not two houses, and necessitates also a letter of divorce should it be desired to cancel the ma'amar.].”
My theory. Two brothers, A and B. A has two wives X and Y. Also other brothers C, D, E, and F A dies without offspring. The surviving widow X is from a multi-millionaire father. Who’s going to be the one to get her and maybe some of her father’s millions among B, C, D, E, and F? R. Gamaliel and the Sages disagree when B gives a get to both X and Y.
R. Gamaliel and the Sages agree if B gives a get or a ma’amar (basically marriage ceremony) to X or Y (not both) is valid, meaning that other surviving brothers C,D,E, and F are shut out and can never marry X or Y based on “Do not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is the nakedness of your brother.” (Leviticus 18:16).
ויקרא פרשת אחרי מות פרק יח פסוק טז
עֶרְוַת אֵשֶׁת אָחִיךָ לֹא תְגַלֵּה עֶרְוַת אָחִיךָ הִוא:
Peculiar that B gives a get to X or to Y instead of the Torah law yeebom or halisah. Normally one gives a get to one’s wife. B is not married to X or to Y and doesn’t want to marry X or Y. Why is B giving a get to X and/or to Y in Yevamot 50b??
I heard. B is mean-hearted. B knows how to write out a get and to throw it to X or to Y without X or Y’s agreement. What advantage is this to B? None only that C, D, E, and F can never marry X or Y. Why does B care? Money inheritance here. X and Y each have multi-millionaire fathers that have many children and grandchildren and cousins.
Hey the bride of Eliya Hawila has a multi-millionaire father with many children, grandchildren, and cousins.
R. Gamaliel and the Sages agree that B’s mean-hearted action of throwing a get to X or Y will permanently block C,D,E, and F from ever marrying X or Y. Beautiful fascinating. We must follow the Torah on yeebom. Follow David Kerzner, KA, Garnel, MoeGinsburg, IsraelReader?
Please don't hijack this thread, with irrelevant comments.
ReplyDeleteIf Eliya Hawila is allegedly a convert, and we know that this only happened after the fake wedding; that means that at the time of the wedding he was a filthy Arab pig, who used subterfuge to defile a Jewish woman, almost like Shechem raping Dinah bas Yaakov Avinu.
ReplyDeleteAs a father of several daughters, what your reaction be if God forbid, this tragedy happened to one of your own daughters?
Based on your twisted notion of right and wrong, I imagine that if you had lived in that era, you idiotically would be on Shechem’s side, calling for us to be nice to him, because he was a sincere convert, who just wanted to become part of Jacob’s family, which is why he forced himself onto Dinah. Sick. Sick. Sick.
Ho knowingly committed the crime as a filthy Arab slime-ball, not as a convert. No love here for rapist pigs.
ReplyDeleteThank you GA, but not everythign is comparable to your Susan problems and not all men are in your position, i mean you don't automatically need to feel rachmanus just because you see a blurred comaprison between yourself and some other man - the other man could be a rasha, so he is not the same as you, because you are Tzaddik. Follow?
ReplyDelete“scandal in Brooklyn’s Syrian Jewish community.” My theory is that girl’s family is wrong to want to annul the marriage to Eliya Hawila. I hear nothing to convince me otherwise. I see support for not annulling the marriage of the girl to Eliya Hawila in midrash on Mahlon and Chilion. I’m 100% on the side of Eliya Hawila.
ReplyDeleteKA says I see a comparison between me and Eliya Hawila and that’s why I feel rachmanus for Eliya Hawila. I’m trying to cancel/annul/disable the 2013 NYS Prus civil divorce. Similar to girl’s family wants to annul marriage of girl to Eliya Hawila. True I was in Jerusalem and Susan in Brooklyn from July 8, 1991 to the get 2/17/1993 except for 1 week August 1992 when I made a surprise appearance before Judge Rigler and his clerk Larry Rothbart on Susan’s application. True that Susan false flag operation claims, ludicrously, that I abandoned her July 8, 1991. True Susan had supporters for her false flag operation, e.g. her lawyer Irwin Haut who filed false papers against me in NYS court. True Eliya Hawila is in Jerusalem today and his bride is in Brooklyn. True that Eliya Hawila today is seeking shalom bayis. True that Eliya Hawila is a convert and the Torah commands us to love the convert and not to oppress the convert. True the girl’s family wants to annul her marriage to Eliya Hawila.
Differences: I already divorced Susan 2/17/1993. I have an easy case to prove, if the court accept my case for review. Susan’s free-agunah activists might be able to help the wealthy bride of Eliya Hawila.
Just to remind people: Judge Rigler and his clerk Larry Rothbart fined me $20,000. Judge Gerald Garson and his clerk Larry Rothbart fined me $5,000. Larry Rothbart is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy3gYhnHJ1E
Your "theories" contradict settled Halacha.
ReplyDeleteEliya Hawila did not convert until later, when his victim walked away from him, when she found out that he was a con-man.
Therefore there is no need to annul the woman's "marriage" to him, since a so-called "marriage" with a Goy is invalid.
AFIK, they are also not civilly married, because he didn’t want to do it legally, since that would lead to his bride seeing his passport with his real identity, and it would be game over for him.
Daf Hayomi just now Yevamot 52b
ReplyDelete“ Rami b. Hama inquired, however, what is the law if [the scribe was asked to wrote the letter of divorce] for one's sister-in-law [The letter of divorce having been written before the levirate marriage, and delivered to the widow after it had taken place]? Is she, because she is bound to him [ by the levirate bond], regarded as his betrothed [and the divorce is consequently valid] or perhaps, since he addressed no ma'amar to her, she is not so regarded. This is undecided [ Teku, v. Glos].”
Wow! The Gamara says we have to wait for Elijah to resolve the controversy. I give my theory.
The case is A and B are brothers married; also A and B have brothers C, D, E, and F. A married X and Y. The father of X is a multi-millionaire with many children, grandchildren and cousins. A dies without offspring. B is a stinker. B writes a get in name of X. Then B does yeebom and marries X. Then B gives the get to X. OK X is free, free of B. X can marry almost anyone---not a Kohen being that she received a get. The Gamara says undecided. Is the get totally worthless, has some validity to keep X from marrying a Kohen, or completely valid? This is the Gamara’s question.
My theory. The get has some validity. Brother B is a stinker. He hates X and he hates his brothers. He gave a doubtful get to block X from ever marrying a Kohen. and to block his brothers from ever marrying X and, maybe, getting any money from the multi-millionaire father of X.
We may need the prophet Elijah on the case of Eliya Hawila. The minority opinion of Rabbi Judah supports Eliya Hawila marriage to his wealthy bride.
See IsrealReader, KA, MoeGinsburg, Garnel, David Kerzner --- we can argue in good faith what is best. I argue in defense of Eliya Hawila.
How else can we know if he even ever underwent any valid conversion?
ReplyDeleteOpen Orthodox claim to be Orthodox but are not. They have the same status as Conservative/Reform.
ReplyDeleteUltra-ultra-orthodox claim to be Orthodox but are not. They have the same status as Conservative/Reform.
ReplyDelete“No love here for rapist pigs. He knowingly committed the crime as a filthy Arab slime-ball, not as a convert.” No IsraelReader, KA, and Diaspora.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the down-ticks IsraelReader, KA, and Diaspora. To me they are up-ticks. Hey, Diaspora, are you Susan? See my package today to the NYS Court of Appeals.
2.It is inappropriate and wrong for Judge Prus to issue in 2013 20 years after the Get a NYS contested civil divorce 2013 Aranoff v Aranoff based on a heap of lies of Ms. Serlin and Susan. It is not possible to issue a contested civil divorce, over the man's objections, after the man gives his wife a Get. It is not possible for Judge Rigler to order a freeze on a man's TIAA pension early 1994 over the man's objections, after the man gives his wife a Get.
3.It is well established throughout the world and throughout history that once a man divorces his wife he cannot divorce her again unless he remarries her. In the Talmud Yevamoth Chapter 5 Mishnah 1: “Rabban Gamaliel says, A bill of divorce is not valid after another bill of divorce;”
9.Ian Anderson tells me that in a hearing November 2002 before Judge Garson and his law clerk Larry Rothbart, Larry Rothbart motioned Ian Anderson to approach the bench. Larry Rothbart held a telephone with Susan on the line. Susan was asking for a one month delay of the hearing. Ian Anderson took the phone and agreed. I mailed my personal check of $250 to Ian Anderson, his fee for appearing at that hearing where Susan failed to show up.
10.My motion is timely because it concerns fraud, well known, commonly take many years and extremely difficult to get evidence that will hold up in court. I ask that the NYS Court of Appeals calendar the present motion.
Flagged for spamming.
ReplyDeletenope, i didn't downtick you, and in my comment i said you are Tzaddik.
ReplyDeletefollow?