https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309069
“What did the Chief Rabbinate – the halakhic authority of the State of Israel – have to say on this issue of drafting girls into the IDF?” demanded MK Moshe Gafni? “The Rabbinate stated that it is absolutely forbidden. Why are you bringing this law to a vote now? What for? You really want to go into minute detail about whether a girl made Kiddush on Shabbat, whether she’s really traditional? Is this a democratic state? This is forbidden, yehareg ve’al ya’avor [a sin that one is forbidden to commit even if one must give up his life due to refusal to submit] … This law goes against the decisions of all the rabbis of Israel.”
MKs voting in favor and 50 against.
MK Yisrael Eichler (UTJ) asked his fellow Knesset members to “imagine to yourselves that the Rabbinate got up one day and announced that it was establishing committees of inquiry to investigate the level of religious observance of this person or that. You would be up in arms, screaming that it was an Inquisition,” he accused. “But now, when it’s the Defense Ministry doing that, checking up on girls to see whether they really know Jewish laws, whether they really are traditional, you’re fine with it … The law requires only a declaration that the girl in question does not travel on Shabbat and that she eats kosher food. She doesn’t need to know the entire body of Jewish law. What these committees are trying to do is coerce these girls to enlist.”
There's nothing Jewish about the State of "Israel".
ReplyDeleteNarishkeit. The girls can do Sheirut Leumi and help out in many ways without having to go to the army. This would probably only apply to the stubborn ones who have no interest in helping their fellow Jews.
ReplyDeleteeven that is "yehareig v'lo yaavor"...
ReplyDeletenonsense statement , and meaningless
ReplyDeleteYou are clueless about what happens when a girl is taken out of her sheltered environment, and put under the command of people who don't share the same Torah values as herself.
ReplyDeleteSherut leumi? By mixing with modern orthodox girls, It's a danger? There aren't even any men on sherut leumi.
ReplyDeleteYes, let her get married in a few months, in her sheltered environment.
ReplyDeleteThat's child abuse.
Does she (and her husband, but that's another story) know what marriage is about?
Not knowing what marriage is about, what life experience is about.
Maybe she should do sherut leumi, if only to know what life experience is about.
I'd rather marry my daughter off, young, innocent, and intact, rather than her being second-hand merchandise, with "life experience".
ReplyDeleteclueless nonsense!
ReplyDeleteHelpful Tip:
ReplyDeleteTry writing about subjects that you know about.
From Israel's Chief Rabbinate
ReplyDeletehttps://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/06874028a064d4f181ff2db40d1b4e0053957e47f11d07f41e1e3893cbf605b3.jpg
https://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/army-national-service/sherut-leumi/sherut-leumi-national-service-2/
ReplyDeletewhen was that from?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.torahmitzionstl.org/sherut-leumi-program
ReplyDeleteThat would appear to be because your jaundiced view of what constitutes Jewish/Judaism has been so hobbled that you fail to see even a little light in a dark room. Take off the blinkers?
ReplyDeleteWhy? Did the halacha change sometime between 1948 and now?
ReplyDeleteYes, it's not yehareg vlo yaavor. Actually, it never was. But it was a good bluff which the zionists fell for.
ReplyDeleteHalacha changes all the time, especially when you invent new "Yehareg v'al ya'avors" in the first place.
ReplyDeleteYes, Judaism is such a weak religion. It's like a delicate flower or anaerobic bacterium. It needs a special environment where it's frail Torah can flourish because God's law can't actually withstand His world.
ReplyDeleteThats freeze dried coffee - yehareg vlo yaavor...
ReplyDeleteAre you Reform or Conservative? They agree with your philosophy.
ReplyDeleteNote, that the Rabbanut, which you generally admire and accept, did NOT invoke "Yehareig V'lo Ya'avor". They merely expressed concern that Sheirut Leumi would have a negative impact on girls’ Tznius. As was known then, and as we know today, unfortunately, their concern was not unfounded.
ReplyDeleteApplying a rare concept of yehareg lo yaavor to any situation you disagree with is not honest Halacha. It's a hareidi reform
ReplyDeleteDidn't see any names.
ReplyDeleteWhose rabbanut? Rav herzog?
The hareidim issued yehareg for this.
The Rambam (Daos 6:1) declares that it is human nature for a person to be affected by his social surroundings; friends, associates, and countrymen.
ReplyDeleteThe Rambam therefore exhorts a person to seek to be connected with the righteous, and to constantly dwell amongst the wise, in order to learn from their pious ways.
Note, this has nothing to do with Judaism, This is nature. A person who walks into a perfume shop, will walk out with a pleasant smell about him, while a person who visits a tannery, will walk away with a foul odor. To be totally unaffected by the odors of the surrounding environment is UNNATURAL.
What's your point?
ReplyDeleteDoes this negate the concerns of the Israeli Rabbanut about Sheirut Leumi?
Whcih Israeli rabbanut was that and when? And what were the sherut leumi conditions of that time?
ReplyDeletehere is a current example - helping otu in a hospital! https://www.szmc.org.il/eng/hr/volunteers/sherut-leumi/
I am curious what the risks are of someone planning to be a nurse to get experience working in a hospital besides doctors and nurses ? Or are you relying on Feinberg's proxy pornography stories, about "mizron" etc?
very good -
ReplyDelete"If all the places with which he is
familiar and of which he hears reports follow improper paths, as in our times, or if he is unable to move to a place where the patterns of behavior are proper, because of [the presence of] bands of raiding
troops, or for health reasons, he should remain alone in seclusion as [Eichah 3:28] states: "Let him sit alone and be silent." "
Note, he doesn't say yehareg v'lo yaavor - i.e. he disagrees with Reb Elchonon.
He does not justify living amongst Nazis, just because they teach philosophy at YU.
Sexual predators? Are adult women not being equipped with an ability to fend off predators?
ReplyDeleteHow would it be different for them in frum environments where the "frum" abusers hide themselves?
i guess Cosby and Trump's accussers were aquipped in fending off predators? In fact you seem to blame all victims of predetors as failing to learn how to defend themselves!
ReplyDeletetotally irrelevant
ReplyDeletetotally irrelevant!
ReplyDeleteStrange now you just know the Rambam's view on modern history!
ReplyDeleteIs there anyone you won't twist to attack chaeidim?
He clearly says a dangerous place is not allowed, even if people have good middos. In iggeret hashmad says we are obliged to seek refuge in another land if possible.
ReplyDeleteBut the fact is your belief is in the infallibility of hareidi leaders . And you will twist left to right in maintaining this belief.
irrelevant from a halachic point of view that some religious sectors accept it?
ReplyDelete"Chareidim" is not a uniform group or ideology.
ReplyDeleteRav Aharon was Hareidi. The previous (6th) Lubavitcher Rebbe was Hareidi. They disagreed on just about everything , including on how to go about Hatzolah.
a) what evidence do you have of such things occuring on Sherut leumi?
ReplyDeleteb) what difference does it make if a Bas Yisrael volunteers in a hospital or works in a hospital, or a computer programming company? The sector you are describing take pride in how women go to the workplace to support their husbands learning. Why is that any different, or is it worse, since they may be married and adultery is about the worst sin these days.
You seem to misinterpret comments regularly.
ReplyDeleteHow is the Army "full of sexual predators!" any less than haredi schools are "full of sexual predators?" Sexual predators are everywhere and the frum community is no exception. Of course, you know this.
ReplyDeleteIt IS related to Judaism, IMHO.
ReplyDeleteIt is a universal truth that we always learned in our Hebrew studies.
Every truth that exists, is from the Torah, which is our Judaism. Learning Torah, teaches us how to be what we are meant to be!
Absolutely 💯percent!
ReplyDeleteWOW!!
ReplyDeleteThey really knew and understood, which is not surprising.
I vehemently second the motion!
ReplyDeleteMost definitely!
ReplyDeleteIt is like trying to explain to a blind man, the colors of the rainbow.
What evidence do I have of such things occurring on Sherut leumi?
ReplyDeleteThere is no need to provide "evidence", because the concern of the Gedolei Yisrael, including Israel's Chief Rabbinate, is valid even without going into specific cases.
However the foresight of the Gedolim has been borne out in real life.
What is my evidence?
1. Personal observation.
2. Observation of those that I rely on and trust.
3. Media reports, about prevalent problems, that were reported by the girls who served in Sheirut Leumi.
wow what utter nonsense!
ReplyDeleteWhich part was nonsense? You dispute the fact that there are sexual predators in the frum community? That would be quite a change of opinion if you do.
ReplyDeleteIs it your view that every secular man is by default a sexual predator? Because that ain't true.
Nope, sexual predators don't exist in the frum world, unless they can be monetized by writing books about them.
ReplyDeleteHint it is obvious that a there is greater likelihood of sexual harassment in a nonfrum environment.To claim that it is equal is nonsense
ReplyDeleteOrthodox are a minority in Israel. Are abuse cases proportionally lower or higher in secular schools than in yeshivas?
ReplyDeleteWhy would that be obvious? Most secular people are NOT sexual predators, just as most frum people aren't. It's quite an unfair accusation, in fact.
ReplyDeleteWhere are your statistics to uphold this "obvious" conclusion that you draw?
And now we are changing the goalposts to "sexual harassment" from abuse by predators? How do you define sexual harassment?