Berachos 63a-b)
R. Safra said: R. Abbahu used to relate that when Hananiah the son of R. Joshua's brother went down to the Diaspora,38 he began to intercalate the years and fix new moons outside Palestine. So they [the Beth din] sent after him two scholars, R. Jose b. Kippar and the grandson of R. Zechariah b. Kebutal. When he saw them, he said to them: Why have you come? — They replied: We have come to learn Torah [from you]. He thereupon proclaimed: These men are among the most eminent of the generation. They and their ancestors have ministered in the Sanctuary (as we have learnt: Zechariah b. Kebutal said: Several times I read to him39 out of the book of Daniel). Soon they began to declare clean what he declared unclean and to permit what he forbade. Thereupon he proclaimed: These men are worthless, they are good for nothing. They said to him: You have already built and you cannot overthrow, you have made a fence and you cannot break it down.40 He said to them: Why do you declare clean when I declare unclean, why do you permit when I forbid? — They replied: Because you intercalate years and fix new moons outside of Palestine. He said to them: Did not Akiba son of Joseph intercalate years and fix new moons outside of Palestine?41 — They replied: Don't cite R. Akiba, who left not his equal in the Land of Israel. He said to them: I also left not my equal in the Land of Israel. They said to him: The kids which you left behind have become goats with horns, and they have sent us to you, bidding us, ‘Go and tell him in our name. If he listens, well and good; if not, he will be excommunicated. R. Safra said: R. Abbahu used to relate that when Hananiah the son of R. Joshua's brother went down to the Diaspora,38 he began to intercalate the years and fix new moons outside Palestine. So they [the Beth din] sent after him two scholars, R. Jose b. Kippar and the grandson of R. Zechariah b. Kebutal. When he saw them, he said to them: Why have you come? — They replied: We have come to learn Torah [from you]. He thereupon proclaimed: These men are among the most eminent of the generation. They and their ancestors have ministered in the Sanctuary (as we have learnt: Zechariah b. Kebutal said: Several times I read to him39 out of the book of Daniel). Soon they began to declare clean what he declared unclean and to permit what he forbade. Thereupon he proclaimed: These men are worthless, they are good for nothing. They said to him: You have already built and you cannot overthrow, you have made a fence and you cannot break it down.40 He said to them: Why do you declare clean when I declare unclean, why do you permit when I forbid? — They replied: Because you intercalate years and fix new moons outside of Palestine. He said to them: Did not Akiba son of Joseph intercalate years and fix new moons outside of Palestine?41 — They replied: Don't cite R. Akiba, who left not his equal in the Land of Israel. He said to them: I also left not my equal in the Land of Israel. They said to him: The kids which you left behind have become goats with horns, and they have sent us to you, bidding us, ‘Go and tell him in our name. If he listens, well and good; if not, he will be excommunicated.
Berachos (63b)Tell also our brethren in the Diaspora [not to listen to him]. If they listen to you, well and good; if not, let them go up to the mountain, let Ahia1 build an altar and let Hananiah play the harp,2 and let them all become renegades and say that they have no portion in the God of Israel’. Straightway all the people broke out into weeping and cried, Heaven forbid, we have a portion in the God of Israel. Why all this to-do? — Because it says, For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.3 We can understand that if he declared clean they should declare unclean, because this would be more stringent. But how was it possible that they should declare clean what he declared unclean, seeing that it has been taught: If a Sage has declared unclean, his colleague is not permitted to declare clean? — They thought proper to act thus so that the people should not be drawn after him.
That's why I reject 99% of rabbis.
ReplyDeleteThere are two issues here
ReplyDelete1) Politics - Chareidi leadership is reactionary. If the nasssty seculars say something is good, then they automatically proclaim it to be bad. And if there's no way they can do that, they claim they said it was good first and the seculars are just copying them.
2) Ivory tower - halacha cannot be paskened in a vacuum. A legal decision has to take into account the effects it'll have on the questioner or even greater society. But now we are told the greatest poskim are the ones who sit alone in the ivory tower and give a true, pure psak uncontaminated by such petty considerations.
There is only one Torah. Someone who doesn't follow it is thus following something else.
ReplyDeleteSo: a Gadol or anyone else who doesn't follow Halacha despite being told they are violating Halacha is in some sense involved in Avodah Zarah.
Which one percent do you accept?
ReplyDeleteYou left out the sugya's juicy continuation.
ReplyDeleteCould rephrase - I'm skeptical about 99% of what rabbis tell us nowadays.
ReplyDeletedon't rephrase your first version is obviously true
ReplyDeletethanks
ReplyDeletejust added it
both true
ReplyDeleteSo which one percent do you accept?
ReplyDeleteFor example, no rav has the right to impoverish people. However, this is what they do.
ReplyDeleteAny rav who opposes people getting secular jobs, training, is thief. And sheds blood.
The 1% that isn't corrupt, confused, experimenting, pushing their own agenda, or making it up as they go along.
ReplyDeleteLet me give you a moshul -
ReplyDeletethere is a man who is standing at 2 gates - in front of each gate there is a strong man who controls the gate.
All we know is that one gate goes to a good place, and the other goes to a very bad place. We also know that one of the men always lies, whilst the other always tells the truth. But we do not know which is which.
The solution is to be found online as this the parable of the liar and the truth teller.
In reality, I doubt if everyone tells the truth 100% of the time, or lies 100% of the time. But if if you ask the right questions, and test people, eventually you will know whether someone is pulling your leg. Many liars will tell strategic truths to make themselves believable.