My Hebrew is not so good. But I think this letter leaves out a key point, which actually changes nothing, but should be said anyway. Except I am not at liberty to say it.
It's based on something Rabbi Greenblatt told me which I followed up with and was able to more or less verify.
Mumph...I'm trying to make a point without giving away privileged info. Sorry for the tantalizing comment. My hands are tied.
According to the letter, R' Greenblatt admitted, that he married the couple, relying on "rav echad" who wrote to him, saying that the husband has a mental illness, and that there are letters from expert doctors, attesting to this fact. Based on this, he married them, despite her not having received a Get from her first husband. More than that, he doesn't know anything about the man and woman, nor any details about them.
Today, do we now this alleged assertion by RG to be true?
Joe is a good man, who has been giving "chizuk" to Aaron. Please don't get him into trouble, by getting him to say something that he's not allowed to reveal.
BTW, we're waiting to hear news about AF suing the people who signed off on the fake diagnosis.
Joe basically explained, that the reason for not revealing it, is that it's privileged information. I note, that in American law, revealing privileged information, can get a person into very hot legal water.
As was previously noted, any psychologist involved in this debacle, should probably be quaking in their trousers, from a potential lawsuit.
Daf Hayomi Chullin 115b: “And whence does Rabbi infer that it is also forbidden to derive any benefit from it [meat cooked in milk]? He infers it from the following argument: It is written here “You shall not eat anything that has died a natural death נבלה; give it to the stranger in your community to eat, or you may sell it to a foreigner. For you are a people consecrated to the Lord your God. You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” (Deuteronomy 14:21) [Heb. עם קדוש. This verse concludes with the prohibition: Thou shalt not seethe a kid etc]. And it is written there: “No Israelite woman shall be a cult prostitute קדשה nor shall any Israelite man be a cult prostitute קדש. You shall not bring the fee of a whore or the pay of a dog כלב [i.e., a male prostitute} into the house of the Lord your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both are abhorrent to the Lord your God.” (Deuteronomy 23:18-19) [Heb. קדש. The analogy is drawn by reason of the similar expression used in both passages, קדוש, and קדש]. Just as there the prohibition refers to the pleasure derived therefrom [viz., the act of coition.], so here to the pleasure derived therefrom [Hence flesh cooked in milk is forbidden for all purposes.]. דברים פרק כג פסוק יח לֹא תִהְיֶה קְדֵשָׁה מִבְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלֹא יִהְיֶה קָדֵשׁ מִבְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל דברים פרק יד פסוק כא לֹא תֹאכְלוּ כָל נְבֵלָה לַגֵּר אֲשֶׁר בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ תִּתְּנֶנָּה וַאֲכָלָהּ אוֹ מָכֹר לְנָכְרִי כִּי עַם קָדוֹשׁ אַתָּה לַיקֹוָק אֱלֹהֶיךָ לֹא תְבַשֵּׁל גְּדִי בַּחֲלֵב אִמּו God detests whoring and debauchery.
I also have inside info which totally justifies R' Greenblatt's pesak, but due to confidentiality reasons I cannot tell you what it is or who I heard it from. But trust me.
You are in very good company! You are following in the path of the top jokester Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, whose attitude is to to adjure people to just trust him.
So, confidentially now, no telling anyone else -- ok? -- I will let you in on my secret. And it's really no secret. It was laying out in open view on this blog for those who could discern it.
Elsewhere on here, and I don"t feel like digging it up now and will link to it later perhaps, there is a ruling from Rabbi Greenblatt that doctors today have some special knowledge that doctors in the past did not have. Rabbi Greenblatt wrote that this is what allows Rabbis today to nullify marriages, while in the past they could not.
Thus, someone identified himself as a doctor to Rabii Greenblatt and Rabbi Greenblatt spoke with him and according to what Rabbi Greenblastt told me the Chasom Sofer ruled you can trust a doctor, so this became the basis of the Heter. I called the man who identified as a doctor. When I confronted him about his conversation with Rabbi Greenblatt, he responded, "No comment." I guess he only shares information with the likes of Rabbis Shalom Kamenetsky and Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, and those like Rabbi Greenblatt who are introduced to him through the Kamenetskys.
Now if fools like you embrace that approach, all the power to you.
So your big secret is that you, a random guy with no involvement in the issue, called a doctor and asked him about a diagnosis that he made and he refused to share any info with you? My secret is much better than that, and I don't even have one.
I’m reading Yehoshua’s comments. No doctor ever made a serious psychological analysis of Aaron. The PhD psychology letter is a total fake, much like 266-3/25/2019 in NYS Ct of Appeals and 18-7160 set for conference 4/14/2019 in SCOTUS. No judge made an Order of Separation in 1995 in Susan Aranoff v. Gerald Aranoff. The Rigler 1995 order of Separation is a total fake. Surely, fake PhD psychology letters and fake court orders must be thrown to the garbage/dogs, yes? Pesachim 118a: R. Shesheth also said on the authority of R. Eleazar b. Azariah: Whoever relates slander, and whoever accepts slander, and whoever gives false testimony against his neighbor, deserve to be cast to dogs, for it is said, You shall be holy people to Me: you must not eat flesh torn by beasts in the field; you shall cast it to the dogs.” (Exodus 22:30) which is followed by “You must not carry תשא false rumors; you shall not join hands with the guilty רשע to act as a malicious witness” (Exodus 23:1)”
He didn't mention letters to me, but, yes, based on all that you quoted, it is true in my estimation.
And it is all a fraud. Formalism cannot be a substitute for wisdom. Halacha is not a recipe book, and treating it like one is a recipe for disaster.
It reminds me of the so-called liberal branches of Judaism that say being a Jew means being nice, and in the name of niceness they perpetrate the greatest cruelties, depriving Jews of the spiritual sustenance they need in this world and the next. Being kind to the cruel leads to cruelty to the kind. So we need to destroy the reputations of those cruel leaders whose actions lead to bringing Mamzerim into the world.
Just because someone has the title "Doctor" does make him the kind of "Healer" that the Halacha requires in a case such as the one under discussion.
I should add that it is not completely true he knew nothing about Aharon Friedman when he annulled Aharon's marriage. Rabbi Greenblatt told me that Rabbonim had told him, Rabbi Greenblatt, that Aharon would immediately give a Get when Tamar Epstein, Aharon's non-wife according to the annulment, remarried, or more precisely, she married for the first time according to the annulment.
Rabbi Greenblatt expressed what I took to be remorse when he realized that wasn't going to happen.
Just out of Derech Eretz to the parties involved. No need to drag pristine reputations further through the mud. I parsed my words and hinted at things in more recent posts.
C'mon, Joe. Please don't be silly by pretending you have "priviliged information" based on some phone calls you made to Rabbi Greenblatt and a few other rabbis. If it were priviliged they wouldn't have told it to you.
Is this about the Greenblatt Fake Heter?
ReplyDeleteMy Hebrew is not so good. But I think this letter leaves out a key point, which actually changes nothing, but should be said anyway. Except I am not at liberty to say it.
ReplyDeleteIt's based on something Rabbi Greenblatt told me which I followed up with and was able to more or less verify.
Mumph...I'm trying to make a point without giving away privileged info. Sorry for the tantalizing comment. My hands are tied.
why are you not able to say?
ReplyDeleteAccording to the letter, R' Greenblatt admitted, that he married the couple, relying on "rav echad" who wrote to him, saying that the husband has a mental illness, and that there are letters from expert doctors, attesting to this fact. Based on this, he married them, despite her not having received a Get from her first husband. More than that, he doesn't know anything about the man and woman, nor any details about them.
ReplyDeleteToday, do we now this alleged assertion by RG to be true?
Joe is a good man, who has been giving "chizuk" to Aaron.
ReplyDeletePlease don't get him into trouble, by getting him to say something that he's not allowed to reveal.
BTW, we're waiting to hear news about AF suing the people who signed off on the fake diagnosis.
well, i asked why he is not allowed to reveal it- so has he taken 2 oaths, 1) to not reveal it, and 2) to not give the reason why?
ReplyDeleteJoe basically explained, that the reason for not revealing it, is that it's privileged information.
ReplyDeleteI note, that in American law, revealing privileged information, can get a person into very hot legal water.
As was previously noted, any psychologist involved in this debacle, should probably be quaking in their trousers, from a potential lawsuit.
Daf Hayomi Chullin 115b:
ReplyDelete“And whence does Rabbi infer that it is also forbidden to derive any benefit from it [meat cooked in milk]? He infers it from the following argument: It is written here “You shall not eat anything that has died a natural death נבלה; give it to the stranger in your community to eat, or you may sell it to a foreigner. For you are a people consecrated to the Lord your God. You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” (Deuteronomy 14:21) [Heb. עם קדוש. This verse concludes with the prohibition: Thou shalt not seethe a kid etc]. And it is written there: “No Israelite woman shall be a cult prostitute קדשה nor shall any Israelite man be a cult prostitute קדש. You shall not bring the fee of a whore or the pay of a dog כלב [i.e., a male prostitute} into the house of the Lord your God in fulfillment of any vow, for both are abhorrent to the Lord your God.” (Deuteronomy 23:18-19) [Heb. קדש. The analogy is drawn by reason of the similar expression used in both passages, קדוש, and קדש]. Just as there the prohibition refers to the pleasure derived therefrom [viz., the act of coition.], so here to the pleasure derived therefrom [Hence flesh cooked in milk is forbidden for all purposes.].
דברים פרק כג פסוק יח
לֹא תִהְיֶה קְדֵשָׁה מִבְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלֹא יִהְיֶה קָדֵשׁ מִבְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל
דברים פרק יד פסוק כא
לֹא תֹאכְלוּ כָל נְבֵלָה לַגֵּר אֲשֶׁר בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ תִּתְּנֶנָּה וַאֲכָלָהּ אוֹ מָכֹר לְנָכְרִי כִּי עַם קָדוֹשׁ אַתָּה לַיקֹוָק אֱלֹהֶיךָ לֹא תְבַשֵּׁל גְּדִי בַּחֲלֵב אִמּו
God detests whoring and debauchery.
I also have inside info which totally justifies R' Greenblatt's pesak, but due to confidentiality reasons I cannot tell you what it is or who I heard it from. But trust me.
ReplyDeleteI certainly do trust you. Why shouldn't I?
ReplyDeleteYou are in very good company! You are following in the path of the top jokester Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, whose attitude is to to adjure people to just trust him.
So, confidentially now, no telling anyone else -- ok? -- I will let you in on my secret. And it's really no secret. It was laying out in open view on this blog for those who could discern it.
Elsewhere on here, and I don"t feel like digging it up now and will link to it later perhaps, there is a ruling from Rabbi Greenblatt that doctors today have some special knowledge that doctors in the past did not have. Rabbi Greenblatt wrote that this is what allows Rabbis today to nullify marriages, while in the past they could not.
Thus, someone identified himself as a doctor to Rabii Greenblatt and Rabbi Greenblatt spoke with him and according to what Rabbi Greenblastt told me the Chasom Sofer ruled you can trust a doctor, so this became the basis of the Heter. I called the man who identified as a doctor. When I confronted him about his conversation with Rabbi Greenblatt, he responded, "No comment." I guess he only shares information with the likes of Rabbis Shalom Kamenetsky and Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, and those like Rabbi Greenblatt who are introduced to him through the Kamenetskys.
Now if fools like you embrace that approach, all the power to you.
Now, what's your secret?
So your big secret is that you, a random guy with no involvement in the issue, called a doctor and asked him about a diagnosis that he made and he refused to share any info with you?
ReplyDeleteMy secret is much better than that, and I don't even have one.
Shucks, ya fooled me!
ReplyDeleteI’m reading Yehoshua’s comments. No doctor ever made a serious psychological analysis of Aaron. The PhD psychology letter is a total fake, much like 266-3/25/2019 in NYS Ct of Appeals and 18-7160 set for conference 4/14/2019 in SCOTUS. No judge made an Order of Separation in 1995 in Susan Aranoff v. Gerald Aranoff. The Rigler 1995 order of Separation is a total fake. Surely, fake PhD psychology letters and fake court orders must be thrown to the garbage/dogs, yes?
ReplyDeletePesachim 118a:
R. Shesheth also said on the authority of R. Eleazar b. Azariah: Whoever relates slander, and whoever accepts slander, and whoever gives false testimony against his neighbor, deserve to be cast to dogs, for it is said, You shall be holy people to Me: you must not eat flesh torn by beasts in the field; you shall cast it to the dogs.” (Exodus 22:30) which is followed by “You must not carry תשא false rumors; you shall not join hands with the guilty רשע to act as a malicious witness” (Exodus 23:1)”
He didn't mention letters to me, but, yes, based on all that you quoted, it is true in my estimation.
ReplyDeleteAnd it is all a fraud. Formalism cannot be a substitute for wisdom. Halacha is not a recipe book, and treating it like one is a recipe for disaster.
It reminds me of the so-called liberal branches of Judaism that say being a Jew means being nice, and in the name of niceness they perpetrate the greatest cruelties, depriving Jews of the spiritual sustenance they need in this world and the next. Being kind to the cruel leads to cruelty to the kind. So we need to destroy the reputations of those cruel leaders whose actions lead to bringing Mamzerim into the world.
Just because someone has the title "Doctor" does make him the kind of "Healer" that the Halacha requires in a case such as the one under discussion.
I should add that it is not completely true he knew nothing about Aharon Friedman when he annulled Aharon's marriage. Rabbi Greenblatt told me that Rabbonim had told him, Rabbi Greenblatt, that Aharon would immediately give a Get when Tamar Epstein, Aharon's non-wife according to the annulment, remarried, or more precisely, she married for the first time according to the annulment.
Rabbi Greenblatt expressed what I took to be remorse when he realized that wasn't going to happen.
Confer more my more recent comments.
ReplyDeleteJust out of Derech Eretz to the parties involved. No need to drag pristine reputations further through the mud. I parsed my words and hinted at things in more recent posts.
ReplyDeleteNo lawsuit is in the plans. It would just get too messy and lead nowhere. Which mess I'm trying not to get sucked into.
ReplyDeleteSaid quaking, if it's happening, is because of me. I'm weighing all the options, and working with others on how to undue the damage he did.
ReplyDeleteI though that there were some high power litigation lawyers, that were going to take this case on a contingency basis.
ReplyDeleteC'mon, Joe. Please don't be silly by pretending you have "priviliged information" based on some phone calls you made to Rabbi Greenblatt and a few other rabbis. If it were priviliged they wouldn't have told it to you.
ReplyDelete