Arutz 7 Student arrested for assaulting yeshiva dean, leading to all out clash between rival factions vying to control flagship Lithuanian yeshiva.
A violent clash occurred on Monday morning at the flagship Lithuanian-haredi Ponevezh Yeshiva in Bnei Brak, the largely haredi suburb of Tel Aviv, after the yeshiva's dean Rabbi Shmuel Markovich was assaulted by a member of an opposing faction who was later arrested.
The attack was reported by yeshiva students who witnessed it on Sunday night, and on Monday morning the student suspected of hitting the rabbi was arrested. He denied the charges, claiming that instead he was attacked by followers of Rabbi Markovich.
Following the incident, several other students were wounded as violence flared up between the two opposing factions, with witnesses saying that tear gas was even used in the confrontation. [...]
פוניבז' בוערת: עשרות התפרעו, ראש ישיבה הוכה
הגר"ש מרקוביץ, ראש ישיבת פוניבז' מפלג 'המחבלים', הותקף • תלמידיו פרצו לפנימיית 'נווה שלום' של הפלג היריב
אלימות חסרת תקדים בישיבת פוניבז'. תלמידי הישיבה מפלג ה'מחבלים', פרצו לפנימיית ה'שונאים', לאחר שראש הישיבה, הגר"ש מרקוביץ הוכה.
אתמול ביקש הגר"ש מרקוביץ' מתלמידיו, פלג 'המחבלים' בישיבת פוניבז', לשוב ללימודיהם, אך למרות זאת הערב שוב פרצו מהומות במהלך תפילת ערבית.
כאשר בחורי 'המחבלים' ו'השונאים' נאבקו ביניהם מי יתפוס את עמוד התפילה. במקום החלה התפרעות והותז גז מדמיע.
בהמשך לכך, לפי טענת התלמידים, בעת שראש ישיבת פלג ה'מחבלים' הגר”ש מרקוביץ שוחח בלימוד עם עשרות מתלמידיו ברחבת הישיבה, ניגש אליו אחיינו הרב יוסי כהנמן, בנו של נשיא ישיבת פלג ה'שונאים' הגר”א כהנמן, ותקף אותו, במקום פרצה קטטה רבתי.
So when it comes to the army and working they're too busy learning Torah? Seems they have great skills for Tzahal to use.
ReplyDeletelearning Torah? That is no longer a convincing marketing ploy.
ReplyDeleteWhat for some shegatzim is "a marketing ploy" is for bnei Torah a serious endeavor, the misbehavior of of some wild youths notwithstanding.
ReplyDeleteI saw the brawl at the end of the Superbowl and said--What a bunch of animals. Then I saw the brawl at Ponovezh Yeshiva and I didn't know what to say. . .
ReplyDeleteDisgusting. Are all Orthodox Jews like this?
ReplyDeleteIt is important to note that Ponevezh is not the 'Mother of yeshivas' and violence of some sort has been accepted is that place for some time.
ReplyDeleteSadly non-Israelis are not full aware of the situation.
Ironically the base of 'Hanhaga' of the none Chasidim demonstrate best the lack of Hanhaga
@Dick Johnson - is that a rhetorical question or a request of information. The obvious answer is no - why does that have to be explained to you?
ReplyDeleteNo, why did you suggest that?
ReplyDeleteNo, they're not. But all internet trolls are like you, creep.
ReplyDeleteand I didn't know what to say
ReplyDeleteWell, that makes a change for you.
one of the "guys" said this morning that the fighting doesn't happen that often. most of the time people learn.
ReplyDeleteFor bnei Torah, yes.
ReplyDeletewhen a few years back, a pipe bomb was left on the doorstep of one R'Y, it was hushed up.
ReplyDeleteWhen a nutcase attacked the Gadol HaDor, he was a lone looney.
Now this mass gang warfare can not be explained away so easily. Even Beit Shammai are criticised in the Talmud for their violence, so this type of behaviour cannot be justified or papered over.
Is kishkeyum the plural form of kishke? Or does it just mean that kishke is yummy?
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that I have not wasted my time following this conflict, but I would say that, if anything, this behavior says more about the present lack of leadership than it does about anything else.
ReplyDeleteANY Yeshiva Bochur who cannot control his violent impulses and resorts to acts of physical violence must IMMEDIATELY be expelled from the yeshiva he attends and made to enlist in the Israeli army where he will be able to sublimate his negative behavior patterns and learn how to use his violent impulses in order to fight Arabs and DEFEND Israel from its violent enemies.
ReplyDeleteViolence between people who are supposed to be "Talmidei Chachomim" is totally inexcusable and such a person is in all probability regarded as a Rasha Gamur in Halacha. The ONLY time violence is allowed, or even required, is in self-defense or to protect one's home, community or country from attack by enemies. But there is no excuse of one Jew lifting up his hand to strike another Jew in the confines of a holy Bais Medrash yet in the heart of Bnai Brak in a yeshiva that was built with pure Mesirus Nefesh by the late Ponovezher Rov ZT"L who struggled to build the place at a time when Europe's Jews were going through the Holocaust and that was the bastion of Rav Shach ZT"L. What a Bizayon HaTorah and Chillul HaShem Berabim!! When Moshe Rabeinu saw an Egyptian hitting one of the Bnai Yisrael he KILLED that person immediately on account that the perpetrator was regarded as a pure Rodef who was caught in the act of hitting a Jew.
Time to send the fighting bums to the army that will know what to do with them and they will learn how to "behave" and know what the purpose of fighting is for! It is not to fight phyically with fellow-Bochurim that's for sure!
I think there was a typo in your post. You wrote "fight Arabs" when I am sure you meant "fight terrorists" or "fight enemies of Israel."
ReplyDeleteattacking a rival rosh yeshiva for example, - totally disgusting.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Ponovezh allegedly a mussar yeshiva?
למאי נפקא מינא
ReplyDeleteTo you, Eddie, all things chareidi are disgusting. Attacking, not attacking, learning, not learning -- if chareidim do it, you're against it.
ReplyDeleteI am working on your psychological profile. Clarification of this matter would make a big difference.
ReplyDeleteKishekiyum, so are you saying you feel this wasn't disgusting??! If Eddie says its day are you going to attack him also? To me it seems that if someone attacks all things chareidi he clearly has an agenda, and if someone defends all things chareidi - even the clearly indefensible - he similarly has an agenda. So maybe tone down your 3rd grade witticisms and name calling, and try discussing the issues.
ReplyDeleteOf course I think it's disgusting. But I'm someone who actually loves and cares about bnei Torah, so for me to criticize this is meaningful. Eddie's criticism, on the other hand, comes from his hatred of chareidim, and so I reject it with both hands. If you don't like my tone toward him, tough. It's not as though you're overly polite yourself.
ReplyDeleteNot really. Lehavdil, I hate Hezbollah and Isis equally. When they attack and murder each other I see Hashem's hand in it. If I hated all things Hareidi, perhaps I would say the same about when some yeshiva punks beat up a rosh yeshiva.
ReplyDelete" If Eddie says its day are you going to attack him also?"
ReplyDeleteThe answer is yes. And in this case, it is not Kishekiyum who is to blame, but it is a Chareidi or even rabbinic reactionary method. When an enemy is identified, ie someone who disagrees with their ideology, then everything they say is wrong.
That is why all secular knowledge is eschewed, or at least as much as possible. For example, since Gedolim say that universities are bad, then everything they teach in these places is also bad. This was not the position of true gedolim like the Rambam, who said accept the truth from any sources.
If I hated all things Hareidi, perhaps I would say the same about when some yeshiva punks beat up a rosh yeshiva.
ReplyDeleteYou might, except it serves you better to use the incident to deride the chareidi system as a whole.
I'm currently discussing it with my psychotherapist. I'll be in touch when I have it all worked out.
ReplyDelete"But I'm someone who actually loves and cares about bnei Torah"
ReplyDeleteThat is a funny and fallacious statement.
You seem to imply that:
a) anyone in the Yeshiva/hareidi orbit is a ben torah
b) ben Torah can do no wrong
c) any criticism of a) is hatred of Hareidim or Bnei Torah.
What you should love and care about is the Torah, not a particular ideological group. If someone in yeshiva x, y or z does something wrong , it is wrong. you are giving x and y immunity , because the the criticism is coming from z. In other words, if you were a dayan, you would be a corrupt one.
Can you imagine a BD who will always find in favour of a disputant from their own eda? ie if the dispute is between a member of one community vs another, they find in favour of their own. this is precisely your "hareidi" mentality. it actually goes agasint the Torah, which says you should not recognise faces in judgement.
there are many overwhelmingly good things in the Chareidi world - perhaps i should spend more time praising these. Shakdanut, Gemach, mesirus nefesh to name a few.
Do you expect them to ever have the discipline a soldier needs?
ReplyDeleteIf they can't get along, let them split into two institutions.
ReplyDeletefair enough.
ReplyDeleteDon't know, I was walking down the streets of Jerusalem the other day and saw trash cans burning left and right....So....
ReplyDeleteOh, good to know, thanks.
ReplyDeleteRhetorical of course. But from reading your website and the many topics that come up, along with walking the streets of Jerusalem with burning trash cans, one would get the wrong impression.
ReplyDeleteBurning trash? Wow. Sounds like the LA riots or the Ferguson riots. Burning trash may even be worse than Ferguson and LA combined.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome, creep.
ReplyDelete