Saturday, August 2, 2014

Understanding the Seminary Scandal: Britain’s Crime of Complicity With the Savile Sex Abuse Scandal

 Updated below August 1 to include Yeramiel Lopins response
The recent scandal of sexual abuse/seduction by the head of 4 seminaries has produced two different responses in the two beis dins involved. The Chicago Beis Din (CBD) that initially investigated the claims declared the seminaries too dangerous at the present time for girls to attend. 1rst letter of CBD and IBD  On the other hand the Israeli Beis Din (IBD) that is involved stated categorically - even before they actually conducted an investigation - that the schools were safe because Meisels had been removed from the seminaries.   2nd letter of IBD July 25

What is their point of disagreement? In both case we have very intelligent and learned men who care about the welfare of others. In order to understand this better I suggest you first read the following article that appeared in the New York Times about the sickening child abuse scandal in England and then continue reading here.
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The fundamental issues seems to be 1) is it better overall if we focus on saving the seminaries and their staffs from being destroyed by this scandal and accept that the scandal was entirely caused by one person who has since been removed or 2) do we focus on maximally protecting the girls even if it means destroying the seminaries and consider why this happened and what is the best way to ensure it doesn't happen in the future.

The IBD seems to accept 1) - that the saving of the seminaries is their priority. They thus view that the problem was caused entirely by Meisels' deviancy. By getting rid of Meisels there is no danger to the girls. However since the scandal has severely damaged the schools and the reputation of the girls who attended them. Therefore they have prohibited talking about the scandal and telling everyone to trust them to take care of any and all issues dealing with the schools. Thus they insist the problem has been properly taken care of and the seminaries should continue as in the past. This is clear from the two letters they have issued so far.

In contrast the CBD seems to accept 2). They were shocked by the testimony of degeneracy they heard. They are primarily concerned about the girls - the ones who have been molested/seduced and the girls who are planning on going there.  They don't understand how even the slightest risk can be taken with the girls and therefore they have stated that the seminaries can not be considered safe places until it is guaranteed that this won't be able to happen again. They have heard that some of the staff was aware or at least had good reason to suspect what Meisels was doing wrong - and yet did nothing to stop it. (See letter of July 30, 2014).  What protocols are in place now that will prevent even passive complicity? It is clear from the British and other sex abuse scandals that people tolerate horrible crimes - in order to protect their parnossa, careers or the reputation of their institutions or simply to avoid embarrassment. The CBD is well aware of this and knows that getting rid of Meisels is only the first step - not the final step to protect the girls. Until all safeguards are in place - girls should not leave the safety of their families and pay $25,000 for an unprotected year in Israel.

update August 1 -  There is a significant problem of transparency in the conduct of both the CBD and IBD. I would suggest the following information be made public in order to regain the trust of parents and the Orthodox World.

1) It needs to be acknowledged publicy by both the IBD and CBD that they disagree  regarding not only fact findings but that they have different goals which need to be stated. 2) CBD needs to provide more specific evidence concerning the extent and type of teacher collaboration or silence 3) What safeguards does the CBD require before they remove their caution and financial blockade 4) A clear statement that they have not authorized IBD to replace them 5) A clear statement of the role of Rav Feldman i.e., whose side is he on 6) Approximate number of victim - i.e., how serious was the problem. and did it involve only seduction? 7) Are criminal charges and/or civil lawsuits  envisioned 8) It needs to be stated clearly that Meisels is guilty as charged by both IBD and CBD. It realy  is not clear that the IBD agrees that he is guilty as charged 9) Is Meisels required to pay for therapy and admit guilt? 10) Why did the CBD apparently renege on their promise to withdraw their caution if this sale went through? 11) What program is in place to ensure it doesn't happen at any seminary? 12) Serious discussion needs to be done regarding the value of spending a year in Israel away from family and spending $25,000 to accomplish it 13) Serious discussion needs to be done regarding the problem of having males run a female school or even teaching there.

Update: August 1 - Response of Yerachmiel Lopin from FrumFollies See also Update on the Meisels Seminaries


1. Sources close to Chicago say they are adamant that they never authorized IBD to take over the case. But were hoping those rabbonim as individuals would assist in pressuring Meisels out and securing an honest sale to another. Moreover, I defy anyone to get R. Feldman or the IBD to produce a piece of paper showing otherwise. these are all professional and experienced dayanim who know enough to put such things in writing.

2. The IBD has never stated that the seminaries are under new ownership. Thus Chicago has every reason not to believe enough has changed to make the seminaries safe, especially since other staff knew about the abuse and rebuffed students who complained about it. This i also say on my own authority talking to talmidot from those sems.

3. Without proof of staff changes, you will forever have defensive staff who will want to claim Meisels left because of pressure, not because of his disgusting and abusive conduct. Others will not be committed to change things because advocating a tikkun means admitting a previous problem. The IBD has bolstered that mentality because they are claiming the seminaries were, are and will be wonderful, kosher places. With such a psak, naturally the attitude will be, "if it aint broke, don't fix it."

4. The most bizarre thing about IBD psak #2 is that they never heard both sides. They only talked to the administrators and select staff, not to any of the victims. Moreover, R. Feldman is listed as the representative of the other side. However, not one of the victims who went to the Chicago Beis Din ever authorized R. Feldman to act on their behalf with IBD. I say this on the basis of contact with some of the victims. They are all in touch with each other and are astounded that Rav Feldman claims they authorized him. It is true that R. Zev Cohen of the CBD shared the investigation to a whole group of senior rabbonim at a closed-door session at an annual meeting of rabbonim involved in Torah Umesorah. Rav Feldman offered to help because his 25 years living in EY made him familiar local rabbonim. Next thing they know he helped stage a seeming transfer to an IBD of the entire case.

5. Now, let us imagine that R. Feldman actually had authorization from victims. So what did he say in the sessions of IBD? NOTHING. The IBD does not even claim they interviewed him re the stories of the victims. Nor will Rav  Feldman claim he spoke during the inquiry stage of the IBD. What ever happened to the idea that Beis Din listens to two sides.

6. The IBD psak is worthless on procedural grounds. They never conducted the kind of inquiry that justifies their conclusion.

7. They say nothing about Meisels innocence or guilt. Given how they addressed the conduct of other staff, they could practically have also given Meisels a mehadrin teudah. Yet they said nothing, neither that he is guilty or innocent.

8. The IBD psak has left the way open for Meisels to eventually return claiming he is a victim of a bilbul + Chicago kanois and again sexually exploit students.

9. Those defending IBD should obtain proof from R. Feldman that he has written proof of delegation by the victims or CBD and proof that he opened his mouth at IBD and actually represented the reports of the victims of abuse that spoke to CBD.

אלו דברים שאין להם שיעור חמרות לה"ר ורכילות ותירוצים בעד מוסדותיהם
ופרנסתם נגד הנזוקין. אלו דברים שאוכלים פירותיהם בעוה"ז ועונשם קימת
לעוה"ב



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NY Times    The Westminster inquiry will investigate not just the rape and assault of children at group homes going back decades but also accusations that child abuse by politicians and other public figures was deliberately covered up or even facilitated by members of the elite. The same Parliament has, it seems, spent 30 years failing to catch the pedophiles in its own house. Before the inquiry was even announced, it emerged that 114 files concerning allegations of abuse against children involving senior political figures had mysteriously disappeared. 

The tradition of the British establishment’s looking after its own is only now understood to its full and chilling extent.

In Britain in 2014, it is no longer a shock to see the face of a once beloved celebrity or well-known politician on the news in connection with pedophilia. During the past two years, the press has been peppered with reports of allegations and prosecutions of all manner of public figures, from politicians and pop stars to television hosts and senior staff members at exclusive private schools. 

The saga began in 2012 when it was revealed that Jimmy Savile, a former children’s television host and charity campaigner who died in 2011, had raped and sexually assaulted hundreds of children. This was a seismic event: A BBC staple, Mr. Savile was an entertainer with the household currency and cultural centrality of Johnny Carson or Oprah Winfrey.

Worse, it became clear that a large number of people in show business knew about this abuse and did nothing because of Mr. Savile’s power and prestige. The entertainer, who was a friend of Margaret Thatcher, used his status to gain access to vulnerable young people in schools and even hospitals.[...]

37 comments :

  1. The IBD seems to accept 1) - that the saving of the seminaries is their priority.

    In contrast the CBD seems to accept 2)....They are primarily concerned about the girls

    With all due respect, it may be that the IBD is also primarily concerned about the girls.
    1) The ones who were unfortunately and sadly molested/seduced

    as well as
    2) The ones who were planning on going there - as well as seminary students all over.
    * As far category 1 is concerned, all that can be done, must be done to help them. And somehow help them heal (whatever healing is possible).
    * For category 2 - these girls need a safe seminary. It will not be in their best interest to attend Brooklyn collage or any other collage in lieu of seminary - especially on a moments notice. (Just look at the numbers of campus rape and all other sexually disgusting stuff going on in colleges.) They feel that these seminaries did manage to help so many girls - that with added oversight, as well as removal of the deviant, they will do their job. Additionally, all other staff will be petrified of having ending up like Miesels.


    Destroying seminaries - where kids do not drop Shabbos or kashrus - will embolden those seeking to keep "Judaisms center base alive". That 52% of their high school graduates drop Shabbos and kashrus within two years of graduation, is secondary to them. Their primary goal is to fight the "horrible" Chareidim and the Chareidims educational success.

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  2. @Honesty - are you suggesting that it is better for a girl to face the possiblity of being molested by a shomer shabbos rabbi than to take the chance of campus rape?!

    If the main concern is the girls than there is no reason that protocols are put in place that prevent rabbis with having yichud with them or taking them on late night car rides. That ensure that staff members who suspect misbehavior not only report it but make sure it is investigated. Clearly the Chicago Beis Din was both a frum environement and a safe environement that is guaranteed by protocols made by experts.

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  3. are you suggesting that it is better for a girl to face the possiblity of being molested by a shomer shabbos rabbi than to take the chance of campus rape?!


    Certainly not! However, when risk cannot be avoided, the lesser risk to the student has to be chosen. Especially if its aligned with the potential growth factor.


    What are the chances of a repeat offense in the same seminary - a seminary that is holding on for its existence? Is there any other area of concern other the risk of a repeat offense?


    Is part of the reasoning of the CBD that a staff member who was negligent in stopping or reporting the suspicious behavior unfit to be an educator of Judaism? This I completely understand. If this is the case, what's the IBD's answer to this?

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  4. Has it occurred to anyone that measles would only hire those who seemed likely not to stop his abuses also anyone who tried over the years would no longer be working there so obviously the only staff he had are not able to protect the girls

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  5. This is very nice boich torah, but I don't think it has anything to do with Chicago's behavior. Suppose you're right -- why would that stop Chicago from cooperating with the Israeli BD at which they themselves signed shtar berurin? Why wouldn't they provide the evidence they have, as has been requested many times?

    I think something else is going on here. Chicago has been making very extreme allegations from the beginning. I don't believe they have evidence to support those allegations, and they know that if that comes out in beis din, they become a laughingstock and worse. So they continue to stonewall, hoping this will all go away.

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  6. Has it occurred to anyone that measles would only hire those who seemed likely not to stop his abuses

    Do you feel that a young and lustful Meisels was siting and contemplating what his best way to fill his lust would be.... Bingo - open up a seminary! Somehow mange to do a great job for many years. In fact open four seminaries??

    That's not what happened. When he began, he was a sincere person - who didn't safeguard himself. He did not begin teaching in order to abuse girls.

    He opened up seminaries in sincerity. His power (which came with his success) got to his head. Then, several years later, the lustfest began...

    also anyone who tried over the years would no longer be working there



    That's a good point. The question is why they didn't stop him once they were fired.

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  7. Are you saying that 1) Meisels asked the Israeli Beis Din to summon the CBD to din Torah?
    2) The CBD agreed to go to them and they themselves signed shtar berurin?
    3) The CBD is now reneging on their word, and refusing to cooperate?
    These are wild allegations. Do you have any proof to this?

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  8. I agree. There hasn't been any proof released whatsoever. Only the imaginations of some McCarthy like bloggers who would take any anonymous comment allegation as a fact.

    I have heard that the someone very involved with the CBD tried to shake him down and the seminaries signed over to him and his cronies control. This person was very involved in pushing the case with the CBD. This obviously throws a cloud over this entire case.

    Another thing to take into account is who the accuser is. Yes its politically incorrect and everybody starts getting all teary eyed not to attack the victim.... But the obvious fact is that it matters what the history of the accuser is. Has she done this in the past to other people etc.....

    Another suspicious thing; just yesterday a letter is published regarding the staff. Why did they wait? Did they not have this information from "all their testimony" ? This reeks of strongarm tactics...

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  9. The Israeli BD answers that there was no negligence or looking aside. I myself heard one of their dayanim say it on a teleconference. The Chicago people have yet to provide evidence otherwise. Despite all entreaties, they refuse to cooperate with the very beis din that they themselves chose to investigate this matter, and in which they themselves signed shtar berurin. And they offer no explanation for their refusal. Very strange behavior.

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  10. 1. Sources close to Chicago say they are adamant that they never authorized IBD to take over the case. But were hoping those rabbonim as individuals would assist in pressuring Meisels out and securing an honest sale to another. Moreover, I defy anyone to get R. Feldman or the IBD to produce a piece of paper showing otherwise. these are all professional and experienced dayanim who know enough to put such things in writing.

    2. The IBD has never stated that the seminaries are under new ownership. Thus Chicago has every reason not to believe enough has changed to make the seminaries safe, especially since other staff knew about the abuse and rebuffed students who complained about it. This i also say on my own authority talking to talmidot from those sems.

    3. Without proof of staff changes, you will forever have defensive staff who will want to claim Meisels left because of pressure, not because of his disgusting and abusive conduct. Others will not be committed to change things because advocating a tikkun means admitting a previous problem. The IBD has bolstered that mentality because they are claiming the seminaries were, are and will be wonderful, kosher places. With such a psak, naturally the attitude will be, "if it aint broke, don't fix it."

    4. The most bizarre thing about IBD psak #2 is that they never heard both sides. They only talked to the administrators and select staff, not to any of the victims. Moreover, R. Feldman is listed as the representative of the other side. However, not one of the victims who went to the Chicago Beis Din ever authorized R. Feldman to act on their behalf with IBD. I say this on the basis of contact with some of the victims. They are all in touch with each other and are astounded that Feldman claims they authorized him. It is true that R. Zev Cohen of the CBD shared the investigation to a whole group of senior rabbonim at a closed-door session at an annual meeting of rabbonim involved in Torah Umesorah. Rav Feldman offered to help because his 25 years living in EY made him familiar local rabbonim. Next thing they know he helped stage a seeming transfer to an IBD of the entire case.

    5. Now, let us imagine that Feldman actually had authorization from victims. So what did he say in the sessions of IBD? NOTHING. The IBD does not even claim they interviewed him re the stories of the victims. Nor will Feldman claim he spoke during the inquiry stage of the IBD. What ever happened to the idea that Beis Din listens to two sides.

    6. The IBD psak is worthless on procedural grounds. They never conducted the kind of inquiry that justifies their conclusion.

    7. They say nothing about Meisels innocence or guilt. Given how they addressed the conduct of other staff, they could practically have also given Meisels a mehadrin teudah. Yet they said nothing, neither that he is guilty or innocent.

    8. The IBD psak has left the way open for Meisels to eventually return claiming he is a victim of a bilbul + Chicago kanois and again sexually exploit students.

    9. Those defending IBD should obtain proof from Feldman that he has written proof of delegation by the victims or CBD and proof that he opened his mouth at IBD and actually represented the reports of the victims of abuse that spoke to CBD.

    אלו דברים שאין להם שיעור חמרות לה"ר ורכילות ותירוצים בעד מוסדותיהם
    ופרנסתם נגד הנזוקין. אלו דברים שאוכלים פירותיהם בעוה"ז ועונשם קימת
    לעוה"ב

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  11. The Chicago BD brought it to the Israeli BD. I heard with my own ears R' Malinowitz say that the CBD signed the shtar berurin. Lopin, who is a mouthpiece for one of the people heavily involved against Meisels, pretends otherwise, but if R' Malinowitz says that the members of the CBD signed the shtar berurin, I believe him. And he does say it. Call him and you'll see.


    The CBD has been refusing to cooperate against all entreaties of the Israeli Beis Din. This is a fact. They offered them to include them in all procedures. They begged them for the material they claim to have. There was a conference call two days ago between the batei din. Chicago rejects their request for cooperation.


    These are all facts. In fact, there is a recording of a conference call between the parents of Binas and R' Malinowitz and R' Gartner in which they lay out all these facts. Chicago is completely out of line, and so was their letter. Once they gave it over to the Israeli BD and signed shtar berurin, they had no business putting out letters.And if their present recalcitrance is based on anything real, there's no reason for them to withhold it from the beis din. But withhold it they continue to do. I don't believe it exists. They went way overboard with their wild claims, and now are stuck up the tall tree they climbed.



    (This business about them saying nothing regarding Meisels' guilt is a red herring. They say nothing about b/c it's no longer relevant to the future of the schools. He has sold them. As soon as he did, the opponents of the schools took a new tack, arguing that it was a sham sale. That is utter nonsense. As is the ridiculous claim that they leave room for him to return. Too silly for words.)

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  12. Oh, and one more thing. I also heard R' Malinowitz say that the sale was carried out in front of beis din. It's a real sale.

    But no reason to rely on my testimony. R' Malinowitz is BH alive and well, as is R' Gartner. Both are reachable. Call them and they'll confirm everything I've written.

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  13. while the actions of the israeli bet din are seemingly deplorable, the chicago bet din made it very clear the bnei braq bet din is responsible for this matter, and that the chicago accepts them. now, we see chicago is rejecting bnei braq, after having accepted them.

    a typical behavior of the av bet din of chicago; changing batei din, after a decision has been made.

    try doing that in his bet din., NEVER allowed. why here?

    (granted, its purity of jewish women is involved, but chicago has no right to do this.)

    i presume enrollment figures will reflect the truth. wait till september / october (after sukkot). will a report on enrollment be forthcoming / posted here? right now, they are just posturing for keeping enrollment. is tuition being reduced (i understand they charge a high premium tuition, considering them worth more, till now)?

    are teachers bailing out now?

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  14. A Formula to Avoid This in the Future

    1. Teach Halachos of Yichud (HoY) to staff and students at seminaries.

    2. Test staff and students regularly on HoY.

    3. Any staff or student found violating HoY will receive a warning. by the seminary administration The second violation for staff will be one week unpaid leave; for a student, one week of total supervision: student will have an escort wherever they go. The third violation for staff or student will be expulsion with no appeal.

    4. A staff member or a student that feels they are being unfairly targeted, that is, that they are being setup for expulsion by someone who is manipulating them into positions where they are forced to violate Yichud, will receive permission to wear a sports camera which essentially records all their movements and those of people nearby. Since all allegations against someone for violation of Yichud must be specified with the date and time of the violation, the targeted staff or student will be able to defend themselves with video that is date and time stamped and thus exonerates them.

    5. All schools that send their graduates to seminaries must insist the above guidelines be in a place at a seminary before the schools will accredit the seminary. Furthermore, a third party auditor should periodically visit all accredited seminaries, ensuring that training and testing of staff and students is taking place, and the auditor should test staff and students selected at random. Any school failing an audit would have to return all money to parents for that year, and also pay for the cost of students transferring to another seminary mid-year.

    6. To any who might say these measures are overly harsh, restrictive, burdensome, and just downright silly and ridiculous, I would answer that to do otherwise than implement these guidelines, or something similar, is to invite sexual immorality into the Camp of the Jewish Nation.

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  15. Thank you for the update. Finally somebody not giving the CBD a free ride to destroy people!

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  16. @Kishkeyum - your comments indicate that you have inside information regarding the Israeli Beis Din and support them against the Chicago Beis Din.

    Would you please write a guest post to explain the viewpoint of the Chicago Beis Din?

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  17. I wish I could. Their behavior is completely inexplicable to me. In any case, they are not acting as a "beis din" in this matter. No one signed shtar berurin with them. The only beis din with jurisdiction here, by consent of all the parties, including the Chicago people, is R' Shafran's beis din.

    BTW, my info is not so very "inside." R' Malinowitz and R' Gartner were explicit about these points in a teleconference they had with Binas parents. I listened to the recording. As I wrote, anyone can call them and I'm sure they will verify what I have written.

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  18. Rabbi Eidensohn,

    Please excuse my chutzpah. Would you be able to contact Rabbi Malinowitz and find out if kishkeyum is correct about the CBD signing a binding arbitration agreement with the IBD, what the agreement was about and if the CBD is in violation of the agreement? Thank you. (I would contact Rabbi Malinowitz myself if I felt I would be able to get answers from him, and that repetition of his answers would be credible).

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  19. These are great suggestions. There is one hole, though. When a male owns the seminary, who will reprimand him? Who will make sure he stays in check?


    May I make a suggestion - which is not practical. There should be a rabbinical board set up to oversee seminaries. Schools will only advise students to attend seminaries that are in good standing with this rabbinical board. The board will make continuous unannounced inspections. They will question staff etc. If they feel that staff are too intimidated to speak etc., the school is not anymore in good standing. Etc (This is similar to what you suggested about a third party auditor.)


    The reason it's not practical is that the Harry M. types of people would criticize any board. Certain sems would want "their type" of rabbis etc. So unless you create three different rabbinical boards/accreditation panels, there will be those who won't participate and will seek to complain. And if you create three different panels, then you will have fans of one panel casting accusations on the other panels. This would be another case where "reclaiming the center base" through attacking others would take precedence over helping Jewish girls. In fact, they would be happy hurting them if they feel it can further their silly goal a teen bit.

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  20. One comment about enrollment. If they don't partner with Turo because the CBD is standing in the way, their enrollment will probably be very low. A lot of students need the FAFSA grants to pay for tuition. Also, the students and their parents want them to attend a program where they will receive college credits from.

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  21. OK, thank you for correcting me. Can you get the IBD to write such a letter? Until then, how am I supposed to know? Can you also post contact information for Rabbi Malinowitz and Rabbi Gartner?

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  22. how can you trust someone like lopin in these matters and post his findings he is a anti charedi blogger even in this post he is calling R Ahron Felfman one of the gedolim in america by just his last name and if you would go on his website frumfollies his included in his newest post is an agenda to slander and or bash r feldman

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  23. @Can't believe - it was not meant as a deliberate slight because he described him with the title Rav or R. in the beginning of his comments. So unless you want to insist that two people wrote the comments - your comment is not valid. I added a title where it was missing so we can focus on the issues.

    There is a significant problem of understanding Rav Feldman's position. As far as I know - he was not appointed by the victims to represent them. If the Chicago Beis Din asked him to serve as an intermediary to the Israeli Beis din- then obviously he is simply a messenger.

    Ulitimately the question is whether the Chicago Beis Din officially withdrew or promised to withdraw in favor of the Israeli Beis Din. If so what role was envisioned for Rav Feldman?.

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  24. if one would go through all of lopins posts on his website frum follies you come out with a picture of someone who has no chasivus hatorah or emunas chachamim and even if R feldmans position is hard to understand who is he to knock him call him up and ask him im sure he'll explain it to him the same goes true with his whole attitude towards the IBD the total lack of respect for the dayanim there would passul anything such a person says about the matter

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  25. after going through all of lopins posts on his website I don't know if this that he called R feldman on your website by just his last name was a deliberate slight but he is a man who has no chshivus hatorah or emunas chachomim going through his blog you come across remarks against R feldman, also someone who has the least bit respect for rabonim would not refer to the IBD as he does. That being said i would agree with the post cant believe that it is a disgrace to have his post on your website just look at the difference in how you deal with the disagreement between the CBD and the IBD and how he deals with the disagreement, its disgusting to read his blog, being so in my eyes he has lost all trustworthiness to say anything in these matters.

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  26. kiskeyum, you write " It is a fact that CBD brought Meisels to R' Shafran's beis din and all parties, including CBD, signed shtar beirurin there."



    Really, a "fact!" If this is true, let the IBD of R. Shafran show us the shtarei berurin. However, even they do not say that. They claim R. Feldman is the representative. If so, let R. Feldman show us the representation designation (with victim's names redacted). However, I know for a FACT, based on discussions with a victim's lawyer (not Gottesman) that he raised the issue by email with Feldman complaining his clientele never made any such authorization. Feldman's email reply: "Thank you." Rabbonim on the CBD raised the same issue with R. Feldman. His reply: dead silence. In this case shtikah kihodoah. Neither CBD nor the individual victims have authorized Feldman to represent them. Thus the IBD never had jurisdiction since there was no tzad aleph.



    Reasonable battei din can come to different conclusions. But who ever heard of an honest beis din adjudicating a case without the authorization of the plaintiff. The best proof that this was a stacked proceeding is the psak which only refers to hearing testimony from seminary administrators and some staff. BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, NOTHING WAS HEARD FROM THE OTHER SIDE. This one sided proceeding is a travesty of justice.

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  27. It won't / can't work. Maybe a year or two, then they'll slack off, "inspectors" will quit, adniisstroitors will say its a waste of money (or why should i allow a bunch of people to look over my shoulder, follow me / my students around, etc., enrollment is up, they bother my teachers)

    And students won't like it cause they can't hang out on king george motzei shabbat (or wherever they hang out nowadays. I'm dating myself.)

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  28. Post your email address; I'll email you their phone numbers.

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  29. As I said, I heard R' Malinowitz say that CBD signed shtar beirurin with them. I beileve him. If you choose not to believe him b/c of something told to you by someone else, that's your business. I'll take R' Malinowitz's direct statement over your report of something told to you by someone.

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  30. WOW.


    What a bunch of buffoons these guys on the Beis Din -the ChicagoBeis Din - are! How do purported professionals like Rabbi Schwartz (BDA) and Rabbi Feurst (BIttul Kiddushin) commit such a blunder and write in their very first letter about this case "a distinguished Israeli Beis Din ... has assumed responsibility for this matter."?


    How could they just hand over the case to an incompetent and "outrageous" Beis Din? How could they have brought in an unreasonable and dishonest Beis Din? And to add insult to injury, they referred to them as "distinguished"?!!! Outrageous!


    Of course, if we don't consider the words of an anonymous blogger dealing with his own issues, we can certainly respect both the Israeli Beis Din and the Chicago Beis DIn. We will search out the real truth and not rely on a guy who claims to be so much more knowledgeable, honest, understanding and concerned for good than these people who've dedicated their lives to it, without ever seeking honor. No, they would never brag about how many people read what they wrote. Certainly not when 2 mill is just a a fraction of that amount of people looking back daily, clicking on posts.... One guy can produce several hundred hits in a week.


    You're claimed knowledge is very suspect.

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  31. please go on to Lopins website frum follies and look at his newest post and tell me if you still think he has any respect for R Feldman and if you should still be posting his thoughts on the matter

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  32. Or if you're uncomfortable posting the email address, give Rabbi Eidensohn perrmission to pass it on to me. Both our email addresses are probably visible to him, as blog administrator.

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  33. Interesting Beis Din when you have the head of BDA and someone who was annulled a marriage together with Epstein, Wolmark.. and RAbbi Belsky. An annulment that received a big backlash. Claims are out that BDA does hand out occasional questionable annulments....

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  34. As the new post with Rabbi Malinowitz' email has been posted, I don't need it anymore. I clearly see that the IBD has been acting forthright, while the CBD's behavior is incomprehensible at best.

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  35. Oh please, how about something as simple as cctv in all areas of school and no meetings outside of school btw staff and teachers. Yichud laws should always be in effect nonetheless...

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  36. Well said! I think he really knows that, just chooses to go on this none sense, twisting facts, throwing salt on wounds etc.

    Anyone who took the time to read the IBD would be appalled at all the negative comments thrown at the IBD. Bringing ZERO honor to the CBD, as some blatantly affirm.

    What mostly seems odd is the expectation that the IBD is asked to support a psak without receiving any first hand proof to back it up from the CBD. Sure they can take the CBD word for it, but their very letter clearly indicates they have not 'assume' responsability on this 'matter' - the IBD has. So it is elementary the IBD needs to hear ALL first hand.

    Sadly, IBD writes CBD is denying this from them, and describes what is evidently a lack of cooperation from CBD / Chicago Rabbis.

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