Fliers are regularly distributed in Brooklyn where Aharon Friedman's family lives. Don't know of any halachic justification for publicly humiliating family
One of the involved parties requested that I take off the poster
in the context of my blog where I am clearly not trying to embarrass Aharon Friedman but show the abuse he is enduring - I don't see there is a problem. If he does I have no problem of removing it
You previously posted that you had a long conversation with GetOra's chief thug Howard (sorry jeremy) Stern. Why bother?
Let him write an article disputing the facts and producing written proof for his assertions.
The only good thing coming out of all of this is that finally the thuggery, rishus and biryon behavior of GetOra and its chief corrupt authority Schlachter is finally being scrutinized and exposed.
If getOra were trully interested in impartial behavior it would have long ago have also protested women in arko'oys, women involved in mesirah and collected money to help defend men whose wives were bankrupting them in arko'oys.
What GetOra stands for and should change its name to is the DOPM - the dysfunctional organization for the proliferation of mamzeirim.
It was very interesting to hear what ORA had to say. h e kept repeating - what are you making all this information public for? I kept repeating - while get proceedings should not be public - when you start publicly making derogatory statements about one side the other side has the right and should be able to defend itself. He further objected to me acting as a beis din - making judgments of what they were doing since whatever they did was with the approval of major rabbis. I tried explaining that in the issue of gittin since it has a global impact - one locality can't introduce an innovation which is considered as posul by the majority. In short I tried explaining that his rabbis had the burden of proof that what they were doing was in accord with halacha and that the majority of poskim agreed with them He also objected to what he claims is sheker - so I agreed to post a link to his version of the story. And to clarify that I hadn't written the post about beis din and that he was only following orders
The Aruch HaShulchan (EH 134:24) says that physically coercing a relative other than the husband's father doesn't invalidate a get except regarding a father (the father is a machlokes but the AHS says to be machmir) http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14243&st=&pgnum=517&hilite=
Don't understand how you are reading this nor do I see the relevance for the present case where physical force is not the issue but humiliation.
He says that the case is someone is being beaten and the husband is told that if gives the divorce the beatings will stop - that is not called coercion except in the case of father and son - while others disagree and that it is best to take the strict opinion
ערוך השולחן אבן העזר הלכות גיטין סימן קלד סעיף כד
אם האונס לא היה על המגרש אלא על אחרים כגון שהכו לאדם אחר וע"י שגירש את אשתו ניצל האחר מההכאות אין זה אונס דאונס מקרי כשהאונס הוא על גופו ולא כשהוא על אחר דהרי הוא עושה מרצונו אף שנכמרו רחמיו מפני יסורי האחר מ"מ הגט הוא מרצונו [שם בשם תשב"ץ] זולת באב על הבן או בן על האב דמקרי אונס מזה לזה כמו גוף אחד [ב"י] ויש חולקין גם בזה [תשב"ץ] ולענ"ד יש להחמיר בזה:
Humiliating is LESS than physical coercion. Physical coercion is allowed for people other than the husband and his father (regarding the father there's a machlokes and the AHS says to be machmir re the FATHER).
Not that I'm suggesting it but you can literally beat up Aharon Friedman's uncle and anyone else if that will get him to give the get and it will not passul the get. Certainly you can humiliate them publicly.
guest 1- WHY WOULD YOU BEAT UP AHRONS UNCLE? what in heavens has he done wrong- Aharon is a mature man who makes decisions for himself, what does his uncle have to do with this? and why can u certainly humiliate publically? How would you like ppl standing out side your house and chanting and rallying? hu? As far as I know Ahrons uncle is not the one who is suppose to give a get so why do they stand outside his house saying, "give tamar a get"
and i assure you that Tamar will get a get as soon as she gets off her high horse and realizes that the world isnt coming to her- the child has a mom and a dad and as long as she prevents Ahron from having a relationship with their daughter she will not get a get! In my opinion she is selfish and running her own life, her daughters life and Ahrons life (not that she cares about that) she knows fine and well that it is with in HER power to "unchain" herself!
As you so rightly stated, it was Epstein and GetOra who made this into not just a public campaign but a witchhunt.
Whose orders was he following? On another occasion Shclachter claimed to be following his supporters orders. This excuse is the lowest common denominator of all criminals!
Which major Rabbis did they have? Schlachter? Willig? Schwartz? Broyde?
The same MO biryonim that perjhaps Rav Shach would have wasted his valuable time putting in cheirem or perhaps not, he would have had better things to do with his time.
This last yom tov we were called to host a single parent with children for a seudah, before saying YES we asked was a get issued. There is no need to be part of this anger, war and financial/children fight....hope that wasnt humiliating.
I would like to add, that prevention is the best medicine. People who know before hand that one side has a problem must say it. My daughter is now BH divorced, but it all could have been prevented if when I phoned for info the people were honest. I know as a fact that people knew and hid his problems so he could get married. Now that I know ,if someone calls up, I tell it the way it is. Where does it Come from to hold back vital info?
Stan, is it also the case that your foul mouthed characterisations of major Poskim is derived from R' Shach? You seem to use him as your pivot. Do you think you achieve ANYTHING WHATSOEVER with the foul language that you use? I can assure you that all you achieve, is a little blood rush of anger from those who are offended by your characterisations. Stanley, do yourself a favour and adopt a more dignified tone.
Your allowed to publicize the Achzarius and Rishus of friedman so that he is embarrassed and rejected until he does the right thing. In such cases we don't take into account the families Busha.
Avf - even if you are right regarding friedman (although if you have been paying attention recently the notion that he is required al pi halacha to give a get has been disproven) - how could you possibly state that "we don't take into account the families busha" by protesting outside their homes? Have you lost your mind? People like you and Jeremy Stern will go to any means to accomplish their goals - be oiver on many lavim.
Go attend your rallies - embarrass whom ever you want - but your time will come for judgememt and G-d is going to heat up a special place in Hell for you.
so why publish all this HERE???
ReplyDeletein the context of my blog where I am clearly not trying to embarrass Aharon Friedman but show the abuse he is enduring - I don't see there is a problem. If he does I have no problem of removing it
DeleteYou previously posted that you had a long conversation with GetOra's chief thug Howard (sorry jeremy) Stern. Why bother?
ReplyDeleteLet him write an article disputing the facts and producing written proof for his assertions.
The only good thing coming out of all of this is that finally the thuggery, rishus and biryon behavior of GetOra and its chief corrupt authority Schlachter is finally being scrutinized and exposed.
If getOra were trully interested in impartial behavior it would have long ago have also protested women in arko'oys, women involved in mesirah and collected money to help defend men whose wives were bankrupting them in arko'oys.
What GetOra stands for and should change its name to is the DOPM - the dysfunctional organization for the proliferation of mamzeirim.
It was very interesting to hear what ORA had to say. h e kept repeating - what are you making all this information public for? I kept repeating - while get proceedings should not be public - when you start publicly making derogatory statements about one side the other side has the right and should be able to defend itself. He further objected to me acting as a beis din - making judgments of what they were doing since whatever they did was with the approval of major rabbis. I tried explaining that in the issue of gittin since it has a global impact - one locality can't introduce an innovation which is considered as posul by the majority. In short I tried explaining that his rabbis had the burden of proof that what they were doing was in accord with halacha and that the majority of poskim agreed with them
ReplyDeleteHe also objected to what he claims is sheker - so I agreed to post a link to his version of the story. And to clarify that I hadn't written the post about beis din and that he was only following orders
The Aruch HaShulchan (EH 134:24) says that physically coercing a relative other than the husband's father doesn't invalidate a get except regarding a father (the father is a machlokes but the AHS says to be machmir)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14243&st=&pgnum=517&hilite=
Don't understand how you are reading this nor do I see the relevance for the present case where physical force is not the issue but humiliation.
DeleteHe says that the case is someone is being beaten and the husband is told that if gives the divorce the beatings will stop - that is not called coercion except in the case of father and son - while others disagree and that it is best to take the strict opinion
ערוך השולחן אבן העזר הלכות גיטין סימן קלד סעיף כד
אם האונס לא היה על המגרש אלא על אחרים כגון שהכו לאדם אחר וע"י שגירש את אשתו ניצל האחר מההכאות אין זה אונס דאונס מקרי כשהאונס הוא על גופו ולא כשהוא על אחר דהרי הוא עושה מרצונו אף שנכמרו רחמיו מפני יסורי האחר מ"מ הגט הוא מרצונו [שם בשם תשב"ץ] זולת באב על הבן או בן על האב דמקרי אונס מזה לזה כמו גוף אחד [ב"י] ויש חולקין גם בזה [תשב"ץ] ולענ"ד יש להחמיר בזה:
Humiliating is LESS than physical coercion. Physical coercion is allowed for people other than the husband and his father (regarding the father there's a machlokes and the AHS says to be machmir re the FATHER).
DeleteNot that I'm suggesting it but you can literally beat up Aharon Friedman's uncle and anyone else if that will get him to give the get and it will not passul the get. Certainly you can humiliate them publicly.
See the video of Rav Schachter I just posted
Deleteguest 1- WHY WOULD YOU BEAT UP AHRONS UNCLE?
Deletewhat in heavens has he done wrong- Aharon is a mature man who makes decisions for himself, what does his uncle have to do with this? and why can u certainly humiliate publically? How would you like ppl standing out side your house and chanting and rallying? hu? As far as I know Ahrons uncle is not the one who is suppose to give a get so why do they stand outside his house saying, "give tamar a get"
and i assure you that Tamar will get a get as soon as she gets off her high horse and realizes that the world isnt coming to her- the child has a mom and a dad and as long as she prevents Ahron from having a relationship with their daughter she will not get a get! In my opinion she is selfish and running her own life, her daughters life and Ahrons life (not that she cares about that)
she knows fine and well that it is with in HER power to "unchain" herself!
As you so rightly stated, it was Epstein and GetOra who made this into not just a public campaign but a witchhunt.
ReplyDeleteWhose orders was he following? On another occasion Shclachter claimed to be following his supporters orders. This excuse is the lowest common denominator of all criminals!
Which major Rabbis did they have? Schlachter? Willig? Schwartz? Broyde?
The same MO biryonim that perjhaps Rav Shach would have wasted his valuable time putting in cheirem or perhaps not, he would have had better things to do with his time.
This last yom tov we were called to host a single parent with children for a seudah, before saying YES we asked was a get issued. There is no need to be part of this anger, war and financial/children fight....hope that wasnt humiliating.
ReplyDeleteBTW the family came and they did give a get.
I would like to add, that prevention is the best medicine. People who know before hand that one side has a problem must say it. My daughter is now BH divorced, but it all could have been prevented if when I phoned for info the people were honest. I know as a fact that people knew and hid his problems so he could get married. Now that I know ,if someone calls up, I tell it the way it is. Where does it Come from to hold back vital info?
ReplyDeleteStan, is it also the case that your foul mouthed characterisations of major Poskim is derived from R' Shach? You seem to use him as your pivot. Do you think you achieve ANYTHING WHATSOEVER with the foul language that you use? I can assure you that all you achieve, is a little blood rush of anger from those who are offended by your characterisations. Stanley, do yourself a favour and adopt a more dignified tone.
ReplyDeleteYour allowed to publicize the Achzarius and Rishus of friedman so that he is embarrassed and rejected until he does the right thing. In such cases we don't take into account the families Busha.
ReplyDeleteAvf - even if you are right regarding friedman (although if you have been paying attention recently the notion that he is required al pi halacha to give a get has been disproven) - how could you possibly state that "we don't take into account the families busha" by protesting outside their homes? Have you lost your mind? People like you and Jeremy Stern will go to any means to accomplish their goals - be oiver on many lavim.
ReplyDeleteGo attend your rallies - embarrass whom ever you want - but your time will come for judgememt and G-d is going to heat up a special place in Hell for you.