Monday, May 4, 2009

R' Tropper - Smear Campaign (from the archives)

Thursday, December 13, 2007

R' Tropper wrote:

Hi, Dr. Eidensohn in his Book Titled 'Daas Torah' writes in the introduction that he gathered Different opinions Re: various Topics. He continues to write that Rav Eliyashuv , shlita Told him only To quote accepted opinions. He writes that he could not decide which ones are and which ones aren't so he brings all. Well.... in his Chapter on conversion [sic] He brings the opinion of the Abarbanel ....A Giant ....but not an Accepted Halachic opinion, That It is sufficient for a non Jew to Believe in the Thirteen Principals 'Even though he doesn't know anything from the entire Torah. It is sufficient to achieve spiritual Perfection Etc... Therfore when a NON JEW decides to CONVERT and Wants to learn torah to obtain the World to come,It is ONLY neccesary to to teach him these 13 Principals [sic] Etc..'.(See Pg 70 of above book) Maybe those Rabbi's in Florida accept the Ababarnel's Position as an accepted opinion Like Rabbi Eidenson does? Is that possible? I think Dr Eidensohn is a very Accomplished person and I'm sure He can help. I actually enjoy reading his book.

I responded to R' Tropper's slander with the following:

Unfortunately Rabbi "X" [R' Tropper] severely misunderstands the Abarbanel and the Rambam - whose status as a mainstream authority doesn't need my support. Furthermore I do not have a chapter on conversion in Daas Torah. The chapter which cited the Abarbanel was dealing with Principles of Faith [for a Jew] - below are the three entries included under the subheading of "Converts to Judaism must accept principles". The Rambam asserts in his commentary to Sanhedrin that if one accepts the 13 principles he will have the World to Come. The Abarbanel wrote a defense of the Rambam's 13 principles in a sefer Rosh Amana. The Abarbanel is not saying that one does not have to accept the 613 mitzvos - chas veshalom - as Rabbi "X" asserts. He is saying that since a Jew only needs acceptance of these principles to get Olam HaBah it is important that converts also be taught these principles. Therefore as converts with the acceptance of these principles he will get Olam HaBah - even if he is not a talmid chochom. Similarly a Jew who is ignorant of Torah - but accepts these principles will get Olam HaBah.
This is the relevant section copied from page 70 of "Daas Torah"

Chapter - Principles of Faith.

Converts to Judaism must accept principles

Rambam(Hilchos Issurei Bi’ah 14:2): When a person comes to convert to Judaism, he is notified about foundation principles such as the unity of G‑d and the prohibition of idol worship. This is described in detail. He is also notified of some of the minor mitzvos and some of the major mitzvos but without going into detail…

Shulchan Aruch(Yoreh Deah 268:2): When a person comes to convert to Judaism, he is asked why he wants to convert. … If after being told the despised status of Jews in the world he still wants to convert, he is immediately accepted. He is then taught the foundation principles of Judaism which is G‑d’s absolute unity and the prohibition of idol worship. This is presented in detail. He is also taught some of the lighter commandments and some of the more severe ones. He is also taught the punishment for transgressing these commandments…

Abarbanel (Rosh Amana #6): You will see that the principles and doctrines which are mentioned by the Rambam are not just principles of faith or religion. The Rambam intended that they be the principles of Judaism. Meaning that those who accept and believe in them are considered as part of the Jewish people and consequently will get the World to Come as promised in the Mishna (Sanhedrin 10:1). It is as if he is saying that these principles are the precondition for Jews to obtain the World to Come. In fact the Rambam (Commentary to Sanhedrin 10:1): When a person believes fully and genuinely in all these 13 principles of faith, he is considered part of the Jewish people and it is obligatory to love him, to have mercy on him and to relate to according to all the mitzvos that G‑d has commanded concerning interpersonal relationships of love and brotherhood. In addition, even if he is a sinner because of lust and lack of self‑control—he will be punished according to his sins—nevertheless he still has the World to Come. … ” Thus the Rambam is not saying that lack of belief in any one of these principles undermines the Torah. Rather his focus was on the issue of obtaining the World to Come and who is considered to be a Jew. Thus if a person believes these 13 principles he will be viewed as a Jew and obtain the World to Come. Even though he doesn’t know anything from the entire Torah, it is sufficient to achieve spiritual perfection with the belief in these principles. Therefore, when a non‑Jew decides to convert and wants to learn Torah to obtain the World to Come, it is only necessary to teach him these 13 principles and that is enough to achieve the desired reward. Without them he will not be considered a Jew and will not get the World to Come…


  1. What's going On with R' Tropper's usage Of Capital letters at the beginning of Random words In His sentences? It's very Strange, I have never Seen anything like It Before.

  2. Recipients and PublicityMay 4, 2009 at 10:55 PM

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  3. the Monsey TzadikMay 6, 2009 at 5:48 AM

    Jersey girl on this blog while reflecting on the sad state of our community highlighted two plagues inflicted on our community child molesters and Leib Tropper.

    She could not be more correct. It said that Talmidei chochim marbim shalom baolam. It is hard to think on someone who created more machlokes, destroyed families and brought misery on our community than Tropper.

    I was told by my uncle that child molestation in the Jewish community is not a new thing they had the same problem in the old country but they dealt with it differently. After first offense they went to the offender and demanded that he will stop, Second offence they beat him up. 3rd offence they whacked him and dumped the body outside the ghetto and blamed it on the kozaks or whatever. That way the family name is not tainted and his children can find a shidduch (it does sound, I have to admit like the Sopranos).

    Today child molesters in the community are given kavod, respect, one convicted molester was a baal tefila for yamin noraim

    In the old country someone like Tropper would be relegated to something like shoev mayim so he would not be able to interact with people and to cause harm, but now he is flying all over the world and have rabbonim eating from his hand.

    Oy, meh hayah lanu!


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