I have not understood the obsession that many have with the actions of Rabbi Tendler senior. For centuries there has been a machlokes whether a Jew is permitted on certain parts of Har Habayis. There are towering rabbanim on both sides of the coin, those pro and those con. The scenery of the area is beautiful. The Arabs harbor a fear that perhaps a Jew will pray there and carefully guard that this does not occur. Look how chashuv tefillah is!!!
I have not understood the obsession that many have with the actions of Rabbi Tendler senior. For centuries there has been a machlokes whether a Jew is permitted on certain parts of Har Habayis. There are towering rabbanim on both sides of the coin, those pro and those con. ================ Who are the towering rabbonim on both sides?
Why is Rabbi Tovia Singer the one asking Rabbi Tendler all the questions in this video clip? What does this have to do with his "Jews for Judaism" anti-missionary work?
Surely you jest. Even I, ignorant as I am, have seen how R. Moshe refers to his son-in-law and relies on his testemony over and over in the Iggerot Moshe.
Surely you jest. Even I, ignorant as I am, have seen how R. Moshe refers to his son-in-law and relies on his testemony over and over in the Iggerot Moshe. ================ I found he is mentioned 21 times in the Igros Moshe - He is referred to harav hagaon. He is referred to as my beloved All of this I assumed was known to the questioner and I assumed he was concerned with more personal issues. I have never heard any comment about 1) their personal relationship 2) Rav Moshe's view of his son-in-laws hashkofos 3)Whether Rav Moshe viewed that his son-in-law accurately represented Rav Moshe's views.
Furthermore it was inherent in Rav Moshe that even if chas veshalom they had a negative relationship - he would never do anything to let anybody know about it.
But while I am writing let me add somethings I heard from and about Rav Tendler.
I once asked Rav Moshe Tendler "Since you are Rav Moshe's major source of knowing scientific metzius - how can he write in the Igros Moshe that natural childbirth is a sham and that the pain is still present?"
He replied,"It is not true that I am the major source of my father-in-laws knowledge about science. Furthermore I wasn't aware that my father-in-law wrote about the subject. But I agree that it is deception."
I once asked Rav Moshe Tendler's son-in-law Rav Shabbtai Rappaport who was the enditor or the Igros Moshe and was very close with Rav Moshe about the statement Rav Dovid told me that he never heard his father refer to Daas Torah to justify his rulings. Rav Rappaport said that there was one exception that he was aware. He said that Rav Tendler had once been interested in opening a medical school in Israel. Rav Moshe did not like the idea but could not marshall logical arguments that convincied his son-in-law. Rav Moshe won the dispute by noting, "Today I am considered Daas Torah and with that authority I say not to build the school." The school wasn't built
DT wrote:how can he write in the Igros Moshe that natural childbirth is a sham and that the pain is still present?
================================
What are you asking? Are you saying that in natural childbirth the pain is NOT present? If that's the claim, then it most definitely IS a sham. The claims of *honest* advocates of natural childbirth are that it is healthier for mother and child; recovery tends to be quicker; despite the pain the overall experience is more positive; and there are techniques for handling the pain. While the issue of positive vs negative experience is too subjective to really judge, the others are definitely true in the vast majority of cases.
What are you asking? Are you saying that in natural childbirth the pain is NOT present? If that's the claim, then it most definitely IS a sham. The claims of *honest* advocates of natural childbirth are that it is healthier for mother and child; recovery tends to be quicker; despite the pain the overall experience is more positive; and there are techniques for handling the pain. While the issue of positive vs negative experience is too subjective to really judge, the others are definitely true in the vast majority of cases.
============= DT responded:
Pain can be defined by it's subjective experience or by its physiological components. By either definition using relaxation techniques reduces both components.
This is like the dismissive assertion that something is only a placebo. Placebos in fact can improve or cure almost every illness on a physiological level. That is why a decent study requires that the experimental treatment must bring greater improvement than the placebo control. There is no question that pain is greater when the person is anxious. Eliminating that anxiety truly reduces pain.
I have not understood the obsession that many have with the actions of Rabbi Tendler senior. For centuries there has been a machlokes whether a Jew is permitted on certain parts of Har Habayis. There are towering rabbanim on both sides of the coin, those pro and those con.
ReplyDeleteThe scenery of the area is beautiful. The Arabs harbor a fear that perhaps a Jew will pray there and carefully guard that this does not occur. Look how chashuv tefillah is!!!
tzipschum said...
ReplyDeleteI have not understood the obsession that many have with the actions of Rabbi Tendler senior. For centuries there has been a machlokes whether a Jew is permitted on certain parts of Har Habayis. There are towering rabbanim on both sides of the coin, those pro and those con.
================
Who are the towering rabbonim on both sides?
What did Reb Moshe hold of Rabbi Tendler (his son-in-law)?
ReplyDeleteJoseph said...
ReplyDeleteWhat did Reb Moshe hold of Rabbi Tendler (his son-in-law)?
====================
I have no idea
Why is Rabbi Tovia Singer the one asking Rabbi Tendler all the questions in this video clip? What does this have to do with his "Jews for Judaism" anti-missionary work?
ReplyDelete"I have no idea"
ReplyDeleteSurely you jest. Even I, ignorant as I am, have seen how R. Moshe refers to his son-in-law and relies on his testemony over and over in the Iggerot Moshe.
Dov said...
ReplyDelete"I have no idea"
Surely you jest. Even I, ignorant as I am, have seen how R. Moshe refers to his son-in-law and relies on his testemony over and over in the Iggerot Moshe.
================
I found he is mentioned 21 times in the Igros Moshe - He is referred to harav hagaon. He is referred to as my beloved
All of this I assumed was known to the questioner and I assumed he was concerned with more personal issues.
I have never heard any comment about 1) their personal relationship 2) Rav Moshe's view of his son-in-laws hashkofos 3)Whether Rav Moshe viewed that his son-in-law accurately represented Rav Moshe's views.
Furthermore it was inherent in Rav Moshe that even if chas veshalom they had a negative relationship - he would never do anything to let anybody know about it.
But while I am writing let me add somethings I heard from and about Rav Tendler.
I once asked Rav Moshe Tendler "Since you are Rav Moshe's major source of knowing scientific metzius - how can he write in the Igros Moshe that natural childbirth is a sham and that the pain is still present?"
He replied,"It is not true that I am the major source of my father-in-laws knowledge about science. Furthermore I wasn't aware that my father-in-law wrote about the subject. But I agree that it is deception."
I once asked Rav Moshe Tendler's son-in-law Rav Shabbtai Rappaport who was the enditor or the Igros Moshe and was very close with Rav Moshe about the statement Rav Dovid told me that he never heard his father refer to Daas Torah to justify his rulings. Rav Rappaport said that there was one exception that he was aware. He said that Rav Tendler had once been interested in opening a medical school in Israel. Rav Moshe did not like the idea but could not marshall logical arguments that convincied his son-in-law. Rav Moshe won the dispute by noting, "Today I am considered Daas Torah and with that authority I say not to build the school." The school wasn't built
DT wrote:how can he write in the Igros Moshe that natural childbirth is a sham and that the pain is still present?
ReplyDelete================================
What are you asking? Are you saying that in natural childbirth the pain is NOT present? If that's the claim, then it most definitely IS a sham. The claims of *honest* advocates of natural childbirth are that it is healthier for mother and child; recovery tends to be quicker; despite the pain the overall experience is more positive; and there are techniques for handling the pain. While the issue of positive vs negative experience is too subjective to really judge, the others are definitely true in the vast majority of cases.
observer 2 said...
ReplyDelete===============================
What are you asking? Are you saying that in natural childbirth the pain is NOT present? If that's the claim, then it most definitely IS a sham. The claims of *honest* advocates of natural childbirth are that it is healthier for mother and child; recovery tends to be quicker; despite the pain the overall experience is more positive; and there are techniques for handling the pain. While the issue of positive vs negative experience is too subjective to really judge, the others are definitely true in the vast majority of cases.
=============
DT responded:
Pain can be defined by it's subjective experience or by its physiological components. By either definition using relaxation techniques reduces both components.
This is like the dismissive assertion that something is only a placebo. Placebos in fact can improve or cure almost every illness on a physiological level. That is why a decent study requires that the experimental treatment must bring greater improvement than the placebo control. There is no question that pain is greater when the person is anxious. Eliminating that anxiety truly reduces pain.