Guest Post: Bartley Kulp's response to LazerA's Kollel IV-Response to criticisms.
I would just like to respond to LazarA's post. There are some points which I am in agreement with him but I would strongly diverge on other issues. We are both in agreement that the communities in Israel and the US have their own unique sets of circumstances and that they cannot be compared 100 percent. We both agree that the Israeli kollel paradigm is presently much more difficult to sustain than the American one. Fine, let us examine the American one.
First of all I would like to question the validity of LazarA's assertion that men who stay in kollel for five years generally do not have a large economic disadvantage to men who don't. LazarA has to be living in some parallel universe. Most hareidim who are married for five years have at least two children with a third that will be on the way in one to two or three years. Only now this couple is going to take major steps to climb the economic ladder. Am I supposed to believe that in general they are not going have a significant social-economic disadvantage compared with someone who has made an investment during that same time period towards economically bettering themselves, starting on that path before they have had children?
In the modern serviced based global economic model that exists in North America today, even non religious Jews and goyim a like are having a hard time even with their time invested education and work experience qualifications (not to mention businesses). These people do not even have the extra expenses that are shouldered by frum yidden like kashrus, tuition and in many cases having to live in more expensive neighborhoods because that is where the kehilla is. This is not to mention that secular people time there pregnancies and limit the amount of children that they have for economic reasons at their personal discretion and convenience.
Frum Jews do not have that convenient luxury. Now LazarA wants to purport that leaving kollel with a wife, two kids(the couple will probably have their third within a couple of years or so b'ezrat Hashem) and in many cases today not even having rudimentary grammar, writing, math, office computer skills or a blue collar vocation, merely involves a simple transition period of playing catch up?
Now I am not suggesting in any way that economics alone is strictly a reason on why not to learn in kollel. On the contrary, if a couple is ready to make sacrifices for Torah then they should be praised. This in of itself is a big Kiddush Hashem. Their family will be spiritually off in the long run by setting the course of its values early on in the marriage by putting Torah first above all else. So why am I rambling about economics and arguing with LazerA's assertion that learning in kollel does not generally have its significant economic ramifications? Because I do not believe in white wash and gilding the lily. It is that kind of talk that lead people to make decisions based on misguided assumptions that they will only come to learn as false when it is too late. Unless a couple have well off parents who are enthusiastic about supporting them or that the husband has some sort of Yissaschar/Zevulin arrangement, the idea of preparing for potentially hard times is in order.
Now while I am on the issue of being mussar nefesh for Torah, I would like to discuss another issue that has not yet been addressed in this discussion. While it is obviously praiseworthy to be mussar nefesh for Torah, in my opinion it is not so when it comes to be mussar other peoples nefesh for the same pursuit. What am I talking about? I am talking about the parents who in many cases who are not young and are not wealthy (this is not to mention the fact that they are might still be raising other children at home). What about the increasing number of parents who are being beleaguered by excessive financial demands in the name of marrying off their children. Granted that there is a great merit in being able to marry one's daughter to a talmud chacham. Also having one's offspring learn in kollel. For some this is a giant financial Siamese white elephant. Granted that there are a lot of parents who consider this a personal avodah. However there are a lot of parents who socially get forced into it for the benefit of their kids and the situation is analogous to being dragged by a pick up truck on a bumpy road. This has also (as it has in Israel) greatly contributed to what is called the shidduch crises. Families only marrying their sons to daughters who's families can provide an apartment and vice versa. That is already a subject well written about so I will not tarry on about it here. This seems to be the rapidly expanding trend across the American frum landscape.
This is where I agree with LazerA's comment on social engineering and personal choices. However my issue with the current model that is being increasingly presented in American Chareidi society is that much of those choices are already being maid for individuals by the society that they belong to. The truth is that the American community is following the same path as the Israeli one which has a hashgafa that I personally disagree with. Not the part about learning in kollel. The part of being more than somewhat obliged to. Also the increasingly total disregard for secular education for boys. When I say secular education I do not mean the humanities and what is called well roundedness. I mean basic skills that can later be built upon in order that these children will be able to work as something besides cashiers or moshgichim. Again we are taking away the variables for people to make personal choices.
My understanding of what rabbis like the Chazon Ish were trying to accomplish was giving young men the opportunity to extend their Torah learning and spiritual growth into their marriages. The key word being "opportunity". What has happened 50 years since then in Israel and is rapidly being deployed as the standard in the US is one of social obligation that has no regard for personal circumstance or preference.
Granted that a lot of challenges that we are socially facing today do not have a singular cause and the issues are not so simplistic. However it is obvious to anybody who has eyes that can see that we took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and we cannot continue to head in this direction. There are major changes to be made and I mean major. May it be Hashem's will that this year we should be enlightened towards a proper path.
I would just like to respond to LazarA's post. There are some points which I am in agreement with him but I would strongly diverge on other issues. We are both in agreement that the communities in Israel and the US have their own unique sets of circumstances and that they cannot be compared 100 percent. We both agree that the Israeli kollel paradigm is presently much more difficult to sustain than the American one. Fine, let us examine the American one.
First of all I would like to question the validity of LazarA's assertion that men who stay in kollel for five years generally do not have a large economic disadvantage to men who don't. LazarA has to be living in some parallel universe. Most hareidim who are married for five years have at least two children with a third that will be on the way in one to two or three years. Only now this couple is going to take major steps to climb the economic ladder. Am I supposed to believe that in general they are not going have a significant social-economic disadvantage compared with someone who has made an investment during that same time period towards economically bettering themselves, starting on that path before they have had children?
In the modern serviced based global economic model that exists in North America today, even non religious Jews and goyim a like are having a hard time even with their time invested education and work experience qualifications (not to mention businesses). These people do not even have the extra expenses that are shouldered by frum yidden like kashrus, tuition and in many cases having to live in more expensive neighborhoods because that is where the kehilla is. This is not to mention that secular people time there pregnancies and limit the amount of children that they have for economic reasons at their personal discretion and convenience.
Frum Jews do not have that convenient luxury. Now LazarA wants to purport that leaving kollel with a wife, two kids(the couple will probably have their third within a couple of years or so b'ezrat Hashem) and in many cases today not even having rudimentary grammar, writing, math, office computer skills or a blue collar vocation, merely involves a simple transition period of playing catch up?
Now I am not suggesting in any way that economics alone is strictly a reason on why not to learn in kollel. On the contrary, if a couple is ready to make sacrifices for Torah then they should be praised. This in of itself is a big Kiddush Hashem. Their family will be spiritually off in the long run by setting the course of its values early on in the marriage by putting Torah first above all else. So why am I rambling about economics and arguing with LazerA's assertion that learning in kollel does not generally have its significant economic ramifications? Because I do not believe in white wash and gilding the lily. It is that kind of talk that lead people to make decisions based on misguided assumptions that they will only come to learn as false when it is too late. Unless a couple have well off parents who are enthusiastic about supporting them or that the husband has some sort of Yissaschar/Zevulin arrangement, the idea of preparing for potentially hard times is in order.
Now while I am on the issue of being mussar nefesh for Torah, I would like to discuss another issue that has not yet been addressed in this discussion. While it is obviously praiseworthy to be mussar nefesh for Torah, in my opinion it is not so when it comes to be mussar other peoples nefesh for the same pursuit. What am I talking about? I am talking about the parents who in many cases who are not young and are not wealthy (this is not to mention the fact that they are might still be raising other children at home). What about the increasing number of parents who are being beleaguered by excessive financial demands in the name of marrying off their children. Granted that there is a great merit in being able to marry one's daughter to a talmud chacham. Also having one's offspring learn in kollel. For some this is a giant financial Siamese white elephant. Granted that there are a lot of parents who consider this a personal avodah. However there are a lot of parents who socially get forced into it for the benefit of their kids and the situation is analogous to being dragged by a pick up truck on a bumpy road. This has also (as it has in Israel) greatly contributed to what is called the shidduch crises. Families only marrying their sons to daughters who's families can provide an apartment and vice versa. That is already a subject well written about so I will not tarry on about it here. This seems to be the rapidly expanding trend across the American frum landscape.
This is where I agree with LazerA's comment on social engineering and personal choices. However my issue with the current model that is being increasingly presented in American Chareidi society is that much of those choices are already being maid for individuals by the society that they belong to. The truth is that the American community is following the same path as the Israeli one which has a hashgafa that I personally disagree with. Not the part about learning in kollel. The part of being more than somewhat obliged to. Also the increasingly total disregard for secular education for boys. When I say secular education I do not mean the humanities and what is called well roundedness. I mean basic skills that can later be built upon in order that these children will be able to work as something besides cashiers or moshgichim. Again we are taking away the variables for people to make personal choices.
My understanding of what rabbis like the Chazon Ish were trying to accomplish was giving young men the opportunity to extend their Torah learning and spiritual growth into their marriages. The key word being "opportunity". What has happened 50 years since then in Israel and is rapidly being deployed as the standard in the US is one of social obligation that has no regard for personal circumstance or preference.
Granted that a lot of challenges that we are socially facing today do not have a singular cause and the issues are not so simplistic. However it is obvious to anybody who has eyes that can see that we took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and we cannot continue to head in this direction. There are major changes to be made and I mean major. May it be Hashem's will that this year we should be enlightened towards a proper path.
And than there is the problem that Franz Werfel describes in his novel "Der veruntreute Himmel".
ReplyDeleteWhile the parents, parents-in-law, or wives do all they can to have this young men learn Torah, who says they want? Who says they really do learn? It's forced upon them, so they sit there and do nothing and no one notices.
And in the end they come up with very strange interpretations of halakha, like my ex-kollelnik.
I appreciate Bartley's response. He raises a number of valid points, some of which concern me as well.
ReplyDeleteBartley questions my assertion that being in kollel does not creat an economic disadvantage. Actually, I made no such assertion. In fact, I acknowledged that this is a legitimate concern, but I questioned whether it is really as severe as Bartley appears to assume. From what he has written above, Bartley's concern is not based on actual facts gleaned from observing the circumstances of former kolleleit, but from the assumption that in our modern economy it is simply impossible that these former kolleleit are not severely disadvantaged.
While I understand his reasoning, my personal observations of the frum world that I live in do not support it. I simply do not see that former kolleleit are at such a great disadvantage compared to non-kolleleit. There could be many reasons why this is so, ranging from outright hashgacha pratis to the posibility that in our modern society college education is overvalued.
I would also question Bartley's statement that many former kolleleit do not have "even ... rudimentary grammer [sic], writing, math, office computer skills or a blue collar vocation." While there certainly are such fellows, I don't believe they are anywhere near as common as Bartley appears to believe.
Regarding Bartley's second concern - the social pressure placed on parents to provide support beyond their means for their children, usually their sons-in-law, in kollel - I have to say that, broadly speaking, I agree with Bartley's concern. I am aware of many very frum fathers (many former kolleleit themselves) who are deeply worried about this as well.
In my opinion, frankly, this problem (as well as the so-called shidduch crisis) is rooted in a very unhealthy form of social competition. There are many fine frum yeshiva bochurim of marriageable age who are not looking for support and don't expect it. However, many of these bochurim are from "ordinary" families or may have some superficial "flaw" (e.g. parents are baalei teshuva or divorced) and are thus discounted from the shidduch "market" as being shidduchim of the "last resort". Meanwhile, the most highly sought shidduchim are the sons of prominent families, who, regardless of their actual success in learning, demand large financial committments for a shidduch to be considered.
So, what happens when a frum girl enters the shidduch "market"? The parents, who, of course, want the "best" for their daughter, proceed to rule out many very fine shidduchim because of various secondary factors (usually involving social prestige) and then proceed to compete with every other girl for the small "elite" group that demands money.
Of course, even if the money were available, this "elite" group is too small to provide matches for every girl, so these families wait (this is called "refusing to settle") until she is old enough that getting a shidduch at all is a challenge.
On the other end are the "disadvantaged" bochurim, some of whom have to wait a while before they get married as well, or they marry girls who are a bit older or from similarly "disadvantaged" backgrounds.
This is why you hear much more about the wonderful and perfect girls who can't get shidduchim than you do about boys. The boys who don't get maried almost always have some obvious "reason", the girls frequently don't. (There is a similar pressure on the parents of young men, but the problem is not as prevalent.)
In my opinion, the bulk of the shidduch "crisis" is a product of our own foolishness. If parents would be rational actors in the shidduch "market", rather than using their daughters as means of social advancement, the crisis would largely evaporate as would the "pressure" to support their sons-in-law in kollel.
I almost forgot to point out while speaking about personal choices and shoshi reminded me, some people are not cut out or are not interested in sitting and learning full time and they are socially compelled to do so.
ReplyDeleteshoshi said...
ReplyDeleteWhile the parents, parents-in-law, or wives do all they can to have this young men learn Torah, who says they want? Who says they really do learn? It's forced upon them, so they sit there and do nothing and no one notices.
That there are some kolleleit who don't really want to be there, I don't doubt. That they stay in kollel for more than a few years, I do. Sitting and doing nothing is not a vacation, it is a grinding and depressing occupation and few men would submit to it for very long. Secondly, it is simply not true that "no one notices" - their peers certainly notice and, generally, the rosh kollel and kollel administrators are usually aware as well.
To LazerA, thanks for your reply. Like I said, the American paradigm is different to the Israeli one.
ReplyDeleteI never meant to imply that college was a guarantee for a secure future. The truth is that in many cases (depending on the field that one wants to go into) merely having a bachelor degree is not enough any more. A masters degree is worth what a bachlors was thirty years ago. That and perhaps an entrepreneurial spirit. However I was not just writing about university.
For example I noticed in Lakewood that a major occupation among part-time and former kollelnick's is real estate and mortgage brokering(although they are probably taking a great kick in the but with what is presently going on). This is the type of field that it takes at least a good two years to start making commissions and renumeration that one can live on. So either one is single and living with their parents during the lean years or they have family with deep pockets who are willing to support them while they are growing their second skin and clientel.
Most vocational business schools that will not admit students that cannot pass their entrance exams. Some of these tests involve answering algebraic formulas. For this one's handy calculator will not help. Then keep in mind that not everybody is cut out to work with their hands so that leaves out blue collar vocations. Then we are left with the perpetually unskilled.
Now you mentioned that you know a lot of people who were able to trabsfer their credits from their kollel's and or yeshivot to law school. While it is true that somebody who has spent years learning seder nezikim in debth will definitely have a huge advantage over a student with no law background. This advantage will very quickly be mitigated if he does not have any sort of writing or grammer skills. Even assuming that he can get somebody else to write a cover letter on his behalf to the admissions board, he is not going to get very far.
Now there are many mitigating factors that will determine a students grammar and math skills. Today if somebody graduated from high school through Ner Yisrael he will probably have better basic fundamentals on these subjects. Also over the years there have been many cross overs of students who formerly learned in more modern day schools and then transferred to chareidi yeshivot.However there is a growing trend and this is what I talking about, for a lot of chedarim and yeshiva high schools to minimize secular learning to the point that a lot of chareidi education in North America is starting to imitate the Israeli system when it comes to learning secular subjects. Again the point that I am made and I am making now is that this is a rapidly growing trend.
The one category that I will concede to you is that many people who are not cut out for kollel are not necessarily cut out for a lot of things (for whatever reasons). Also they might not be focused.Which as you yourself mentioned that you did not come into yourself in learning until you were in your twenties. The same is true with secular people. It is known that older people generally make better students in most settings. Now if somebody is single this is a non issue. However if one is married with a child the issue becomes more complicated. Like I mentioned above though, his previous secular education will hold him in good stead as something to build on.
As a mother who has married off 5 children already B"H, and is busy will shidduchim, the reality is that many bais yakov girls are interested in short-term learners who have future goals and plan to go to school/start business/work within 2-3 yrs of marriage. They are usually the younger sisters in the house who have experienced what a kollel life is thru an older sibling and what something else. That is the American reality of today!!!!
ReplyDelete"Of every 1000....100 proceed to mikra, 10 to mishna, 1 to horaah" hasn't really changed. Is there really anything gained by [socially] forcing the other 99% to rehash the same few sugyos x more times....?
ReplyDeleteIt's certainly not any benefit for the klal, nor, arguably, even for the individual.
shloime said...
ReplyDelete"Of every 1000....100 proceed to mikra, 10 to mishna, 1 to horaah" hasn't really changed. Is there really anything gained by [socially] forcing the other 99% to rehash the same few sugyos x more times....?
It's certainly not any benefit for the klal, nor, arguably, even for the individual.
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Rav Dessler emphatically disagrees with you. In fact he says that gedolim require a social system that has only one way to obtain status and that is to be a godol. If we allow consider other paths equally valid we destroy the motivation to be a godol. Therefore we must be prepared to sacrifice many people - even to the point of driving them away from yiddishkeit - in order to perpetuate a system where greatness in Torah is the sole value. Michtav M'Eliyahu (3:355-358) This view was that of the Chazon Ish and is still the dominant approach in the litviche world.
But if modesty is such an important value, why does every mother think that her son will be the godol?
ReplyDeleteI mean I love a society where "being a godol be torah" is the sole value. But in the end, when you strive for it leaving behind all other considerations (e.g. that you promised in the ketuvah that you will pay for the livelihood of yourself, your wife and your children), it becomes almost as absurd as, lehavdil, strife for money, big cars, being a sports champion.
Shoshi has got a great point. This is what is called unintended side effects of such a system. Sometimes the strive for excellence in torah can be akin to getting a P.H.D. title. Actually some rabbonim have gotten P.H.D's in talmudic study but that is another story.
ReplyDeleteAlso the first time that I read Rav Dessler where he proposed the present day model of the Rosh Yeshiva/Kollels livelyhood being tied to his personal fundraising and administartion efforts. In otherwards he thrives or hangs with his institution. The first thought that came to my mind is that while it is efficient to employ capitalism into the proliferation of Torah institutions, it came to me that this is also a great way of creating fiefdoms on a whole scale level not seen previously. Does anybody care to address this issue?
While it is obviously praiseworthy to be mussar nefesh for Torah, in my opinion it is not so when it comes to be mussar other peoples nefesh for the same pursuit.
ReplyDeleteAnybody planning on responding to this point?
--Sitting and doing nothing is not a vacation, it is a grinding and depressing occupation and few men would submit to it for very long. Secondly, it is simply not true that "no one notices" - their peers certainly notice and, generally, the rosh kollel and kollel administrators are usually aware as well.
With all due respect this is untrue - and yes I see it first hand.
How many guys coast in yeshiva during their single days for years? Why do you think it is any different after marriage?
Unless you are part of a smaller Kollel it is all to easy to "get by".
G said...
ReplyDeleteWhile it is obviously praiseworthy to be mussar nefesh for Torah, in my opinion it is not so when it comes to be mussar other peoples nefesh for the same pursuit.
Anybody planning on responding to this point?
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Already responded to it in response to shloime. Read through Rav Dessler.
There is a significant principle of sacrificing oneself for the sake of the Jewish people or community. If there is interest I will put the translation of Rav Dessler in a separate post.
Please do, thank you.
ReplyDeleteAs for the view of Rav Dessler - don't take this the wrong way but does one opinion legitimize all the possible pitfalls from the currently endorsed way of life?
Does no one disagree? Are there no contrary positions?
Even if, and to get more to the point...what if said system does not produce what it was set up to and yet still maintains the negative aspects? How long is a community obligated to allow it to run?
This is all assuming of course that currently we haev created a system that sets creating the next gadol as its aim and of putting Torah above all else...statements that at present seem far from being foregone conclusions.
G said...
ReplyDelete"Sitting and doing nothing is not a vacation, it is a grinding and depressing occupation and few men would submit to it for very long...."
With all due respect this is untrue - and yes I see it first hand.
How many guys coast in yeshiva during their single days for years? Why do you think it is any different after marriage?
Unless you are part of a smaller Kollel it is all to easy to "get by".
Firstly, while bochurim do, sometimes, "coast" through yeshiva without ever properly settling down, in most such cases, if they aren't married by the time they are in their late twenties or early thirties, they begin to leave yeshiva to some degree or another (teaching, working part-time, or something similar).
Secondly, there are many significant differences between a single man and a married man. For one thing, it is much more accepted for a married man to leave kollel than for a bochur to do so. The married guy has the "excuse" of parnassa for his family. If a bochur leaves, it is seen as an admission that he was not succesful in yeshiva.
Also, bochurim tend to see their lives as "on hold" as they look for shidduchim. So, if they aren't satisfied in yeshiva, they see that as a temporary situation. A kollel fellow who is unhappy will see this as a potentially permanent situation and will therefore become increasingly dissatisfied and unhappy.
As for others noticing, the roshei yeshiva and mashgichim in most yeshivos are usually aware when a student is "coasting". The question is what should be done about it. In any event, a yeshiva is far more likely to tolerate a bochur who is "coasting" than a kollel yungerman, especially if they are providing the kollel yungerman a paycheck.
I have more to say on this and also in response to some of the other comments but I don't have time now.
Firstly, while bochurim do, sometimes, "coast" through yeshiva without ever properly settling down, in most such cases, if they aren't married by the time they are in their late twenties or early thirties, they begin to leave yeshiva to some degree or another (teaching, working part-time, or something similar).
ReplyDeleteOkay, and...
What of the ones who were in mid-coast and DID get married and then continue on said coasting into their late twenties and early thirties?
Secondly, there are many significant differences between a single man and a married man.
Too true, would that more understood this.
For one thing, it is much more accepted for a married man to leave kollel than for a bochur to do so. The married guy has the "excuse" of parnassa for his family. If a bochur leaves, it is seen as an admission that he was not succesful in yeshiva.
More accepted, yes. But that is simply a matter of degrees from within a frowned upon action that is begrudgingly taken.
--I'm not even going to get into the "not succesful" part here, but suffice to say that is a large part of the problem.
Also, bochurim tend to see their lives as "on hold" as they look for shidduchim. So, if they aren't satisfied in yeshiva, they see that as a temporary situation. A kollel fellow who is unhappy will see this as a potentially permanent situation and will therefore become increasingly dissatisfied and unhappy.
Again, I wish this were true but reality simply does not bare it out.
As for others noticing, the roshei yeshiva and mashgichim in most yeshivos are usually aware when a student is "coasting".
See above
In any event, a yeshiva is far more likely to tolerate a bochur who is "coasting" than a kollel yungerman, especially if they are providing the kollel yungerman a paycheck.
I disagree. Firstly, more often than not the yeshiav stipend is not all that much and is not of significant impact to the yeshiva - his main support is coming from other sources most probably.
Second, how would it look if a yeshiva began requesting young men to leave Kollel? Doesn't look good for them, for him, for the institution in general. So long as he is one of many (true this would be very diff in a smaller Kollel) it all just goes merrily along. After all, better he spend whatever time he does learning and remaining in the yeshiva environs than ::gasp:: venturing out (not to mention that doing so would legitimize said venturing).
Keeping him around helps perpetuate the system as a whole.
I have more to say on this and also in response to some of the other comments but I don't have time now.
Looking forward.
I know how my stance comes across so I will just state here that it is the entire engineered social system along with its repercussions that strikes me as off. Not the idea of learning full time.
Excellent points were made here regarding the kollel system. Often ignored in the issue of "mussar nefesh" are the children. In order to perpetuate this system infants are often left at the homes of caregivers. On my block in Midwood, Brooklyn a woman with 9 children of her own takes in a number of infants. They are brought in to her home in strollers and car seats, there to remain for their visit unless they create a fuss. They are the ultimate victims of this vanity.
ReplyDeleteMidwood said...
ReplyDeleteExcellent points were made here regarding the kollel system. Often ignored in the issue of "mussar nefesh" are the children. In order to perpetuate this system infants are often left at the homes of caregivers.
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The majority of families in America have husband and wife working and this is not new. The stereotypic American family with daddy working and mommy staying home is more of the exception than the rule. Given that reality what constructive suggestions do you have?
Given that reality what constructive suggestions do you have?
ReplyDelete=====================
iiuc the point was not the both working but the standard of substitute childcare required by the general financial status of the community.
GCT
joel rich
I commented on this thread in my blog:
ReplyDeleteClick Here
If link doesn't work, copy/paste:
http://achaslmaala.blogspot.com/2008/10/g-ds-pyramid-scheme.html
Gmar Chasima Tova
Yechezkel
The majority of families in America have husband and wife working and this is not new. The stereotypic American family with daddy working and mommy staying home is more of the exception than the rule. Given that reality what constructive suggestions do you have?
ReplyDeleteSorry, but it is entirely a moral question, not a day care question.
Case 1; the family decides for themselves what is appropriate to their situation, and lives with the consequences.
Case 2; Wife works, husband goes to kollel, infant is in his car seat all day; the community calls this a "kiddush hashem." Wonderful, he is "learning."
What about the infant's "learning?"
Midwood said...
ReplyDeleteSorry, but it is entirely a moral question, not a day care question.
Case 2; Wife works, husband goes to kollel, infant is in his car seat all day; the community calls this a "kiddush hashem." Wonderful, he is "learning."
What about the infant's "learning?"
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strawman argument.
There are options in child care. It is up to the parents to make sure that care is more than what you described.
Futhermore it is not clear that if he wan't in kollel that the children would be better cared for.
Perhaps a bigger question is when the child care is given by non-Jews or multiple babysitters during the day. But again - given the present economic conditions I am not convinced that the child would necessarily get better care if the father was not in kollel.