https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/plot-against-hasidic-education-new-york-times
All of which should lead us to what ought to be the crux of this and any other conversation about education—which is what, precisely, is its ultimate goal. Education is a means to an end; what, then, do we want our well-educated children to be?
In France, there is obligatory school education on shabbes /Saturday. This applies to Jewish schoolkids. Hence shmad. Hence, hareidi rabbonim who opposed aliyah of French jews support shmad.
ReplyDeleteWe want well-rounded citizens who are conversant in the history and culture of the country they live in and are motivated to participate in its development and prosperity. Chareidim are uninterested in all those things so they don't bother with them.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Jewish educational institutions in France are REQUIRED to hold classes on Saturdays and Jewish holidays.
ReplyDeleteIt only applies to non-Jewish state schools, and I understand that many Jewish students don't write when they're there.
Any parent concerned about shmad, would theoretically find alternative private Jewish educational institutions for his children to attend.
Is there a Torah obligation to be "conversant in the history and culture of the country they live in"?
ReplyDeleteIs there a Torah obligation to be motivated to participate in the development and prosperity of their host country(as opposed to developing their own means to personal prosperity)?
IR "It only applies to non-Jewish state schools, and I understand that many Jewish students don't write when they're there. Any parent concerned about shmad, would theoretically find alternative private Jewish educational institutions for his children to attend."
ReplyDeleteSo the majority of Jews would presumably go to state schools. Jewish schools usually cost more, and also do not have the capacity for the entire Jewish population, which is the biggest in europe.
Hence shmad. Hence chareidi rabbis again need to say another al chet...
Well yes, actually there is. We pray for the wellbeing of the country we live in. We are expected to be good citizens that follow its laws. In order to best do that one has to know about the language and culture we are interacting with.
ReplyDeleteHere's more common sense - the better the country does, the safer it is for the Jews.
Being "conversant in the history and culture of the country they live in", has NOTHING to do with praying for the wellbeing of the country we live in, or following its laws.
ReplyDeleteYou can adequately pray for the success of the country, and be fluent in its laws, without needing to know anything about the country's history and culture.
As a Torah Jew, your primary obligation is to learn Torah, keep the Mitzvos, and prepare for Olam Haba.
Being "conversant in the history and culture of the country they live in", or participating in the development and prosperity of your host country, as an ideal, does not seem to fall under the rubric of any the primary obligations of a Jew.
Moreover, the pursuit of these faux ideals, serve as a distraction from a Jew's ultimate mission in this world.
As a person becomes steeped in the culture of the non-Jewish host country, he more and more identifies himself with that country's and culture, and less and less identifies with being a Torah Jew, whose primacy in life is following the Torah's commandments and ideals.
If you live in someone's house, you need to know where he keeps stuff in the fridge, what his pet peeves are and how much of the monthly bills he expected you to pay for. Further, for the good of the community it's proper to understand where you live so you can anticipate trends that may have a negative effect on the community and work to counter them. Hiding in a ghetto and ignoring what's going on around you never achieves that.
ReplyDeleteThis is where we diverge. You believe that you're living in the same house as the non-Jew, while I believe that we're merely living in the same neighborhood.
ReplyDeleteAs a polite neighbor, I don't need to know where he keeps his stuff in his fridge, nor do I need to know what he puts in his fridge. That is because I don't share a fridge with him. I'm independent. I live by myself, and I have my own fridge.
We can politely live our separate lives, with mutual respect. I don't need to adopt his culture, and beyond some utilitarian pieces of information, I don't need to waste my life trying to understand his culture, and what makes it tick.
All I need to know is what taxes I need to pay, and how to properly interact with my neighbors. That doesn't require twelve years of inculcating our children on American history, culture, and values.
Orthodox Jews are happy and proud to live in an insular society, true to Torah values, and are grateful to the US Government for providing us with the liberty to do so.
We studiously ignore the violent crime, promiscuity, and drug use of our "cultured" neighbors, and reject their invitations to become like them. We don't live in ghettos. We live in an upscale Torah world, protected by gated walls, that we carefully erect for our protection.
BRAVO! HEAR, HEAR!
ReplyDelete🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆