R' Tropper - Kiruv vs Geirus/ RaP's analysis

Guest Post by Recipients and Publicity: See previous posting on Rabbi Tropper

Kiruv process versus Geirus process: Source of Rabbi Tropper's dissonance.

Plony Almony 18 [makes some excellent and valid points that deserve more attention because they point to a huge dichotomy that lies beneath two huge and inter-related subjects: KIRUV and GEIRUS.

Kiruv and Geirus are as different as chalk and cheese. Making a yid become frum is not the same thing as being megayer a goy. Many (even kiruv rabbis) make a huge error in logic and metzius ("reality" and "fact") by thinking that there is a similarity between kiruv and geirus and they assume the same methods and tools of kiruv should and can be used for geirus. Only up to a point.

But what to do when confronted with interfaith couples where the Jewish one needs kiruv and the non-Jew needs conversion? This is not an easy quandary for all concerned but at rock bottom, regardless of what the interfaith couples are told or imagine, the gentile is NOT a "tinok shenishba" and has NO neshama while the Jew has a 100% holy neshama, which the converting gentile presumably desires. While male Jew can count for a minyan as would the greatest gadol on Earth, as would a 100% Halachically Jewish mother (even if she was anti-religious) give birth to a 100% Jew, on the other hand a goy MUST be excluded from a minyan. These are facts life and Jewish Law.

I have touched on some pertinent deeper issues in the posts that Dr. Eidensohn/da'as torah had kindly posted at http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/07/kiruv-end-of-kiruv-as-we-know-it.html

That:

"...the real wars are among the Orthodox themselves, manifested more than anywhere else in each faction's attititude to geirus/conversion and its sister-ship kiruv/outreach, because as we see in today's world of the 21st century, there is turmoil in both how to mekarev (to do outreach) and how to megayer (to do conversions) and they are inter-related in many ways and on may levels, most of all in the real world of real lives as we see from all the problems and issues facing Orthodox outreach rabbis and outreach workers..."

And at http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/07/kiruv-ii-paradigm-change-for-outreach.html

"...Rabbi Tropper is a venturer because with his EJF program to welcome in by doing outreach the non-Jewish spouses of interfaith couples under "strict" Beth Din auspices (actually fueling the flames of the process, as it were) he is doing a classical juggling act, that on the one hand he is trying to preempt and ward off attacks from the Haredi world he admires and respects and needs but at the the same time he is caving in to the interfaith flood at the gate and in this he is no different to ALL other Kiruv workers out there today trying to cope with the flood tide of interfaith students (meaning students from mixed marriages or intermarrieds themseleves, or those with non-Halachic conversions), and instead of calling a spade a spade and seeing the writing on the wall, that THE AGE OF KIRUV AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER and maybe even walking away from it, he tries to to finesse it (Dr. Tom Kaplan has lots of money and what else is there to do for a living if not helping millionares find solutions to their intermarried problems?), and that is why he was slapped by the BADATS who then sent out letters of warning to all those Recipients and asking for Publicity that Rabbi Tropper's agenda and methods were not part of the solution but were more part of the problem...."

While the two fields of KIRUV and GEIRUS over-lap and are inter-connected in our times, yet they are two separate and often contradicatory entities. What scholars call DISSONANT:

While KIRUV is all about "drawing closer" (literally "lekarev" or "to be mekarev") in contradistinction, GEIRUS is about "qualifying for Jewish citizenship" (lagur = to become a "dweller/sojourner/to live among" = "to become a 'national' of the Jewish people according to its laws, as defined by the Torah and the Halachah.)

GEIRUS requires a modicum or even a lot of RICHUK (pushing away/rejection), the opposite of "kiruv" and potential converts MUST first be STRONGLY encouraged NOT to become geirim. As an historical example, Rav Yitzchok Hutner used to like to tell over the famous story from Rav A.Y. Kook about "der ger fun Paris" about a Parisian gentile who sought to become a ger but whom Rav Kook succeeeded in convincing to become Ben Noach instead and who when he ever came to meet Rav Kook on a Shabbat would come with a lit cigar to prove that he had not converted and had preferred to remain a goy. Rav Kook and Rav Hutner took great pride in the fact that a gentile was persuaded NOT to convert! Too bad not too many modern rabbis think and act like this in the world's egalitarian melting pot poly-glot culture.

That is why dispassionate legalistic cool sceptical suspicious and scholarly dayanim on a reliable Bais Din are the ideal choice for deciding matters of conversion, and certainly NOT charismatic rabbis with magnetic hypnotic charming personalities and winning ways who have toiled all their lives in Kiruv.

The dayanim on a Bais Din convened to hear and decide upon cases on conversion do not (or should not) care about hurting a prospective convert's "feelings" by rejecting the application/s to convert. This modus operandi is very UNLIKE kiruv workers who are trained to recruit, lure, beguile, make happy with lots of smiles and free hospitality and "courting", and (for lack of a better word) "missionize" leshem shomayim (hopefully!) secular and non-Orthodox Jews to become frum.

Kiruv workers have a whole range of methods relating to "how to win friends and influence people" ranging from soft-sell to hard-sell, from those who practice a gentle moderate gradualist approach to those who believe in conjuring up ex-nihilo "overnight wonders" that are obligated in immediate compliance to a rebbe/rav/yeshiva.

Rabbi Tropper is from those kiruv workers (his main stock in trade) who works using the hard-sell method and he is very good at what he does in kiruv and is famous for his heady, strong-willed, blusterry speeches meant to bowl over his listeners, and yes he can be very intimidating and insulting to his listeners who may not share his moods. (Guess what: This is actually good kiruv believe it or not, because it is prone to induce a mind-shift as a form of "shock therapy" in his listeners opening them up to new Torah ideas they had never heard before), although he can also take it slow and gentle when he works with very diverse audiences who he knows will not go for his shock tactics. And yes, he generally holds that those who become his disci[les must adhere to quick adherence to his utterances and rules.

Rabbi Tropper's kiruv methods as such are not an issue in this dialogue, nor do I think that his role in getting Rabbi Slifkin's books off the frum radar screen has anything to do with the current set of "Kiruv vs Geirus" issues that are riling Rabbi Tropper and confusing those who come face to face with him today because right now the man is a walking dichotomy. A sort of split personality, not fully conscious of the depth of his inner turmoil and extent of the self-contradiction he is spilling wherever he goes nowadays, as his kiruv side battles and tries to reconcile itself with the issues of geirus he has now immersed himself in for better or worse, and he is in over his head this time. While Rabbi tropper is agadol in the kiruv world, he is a zero in the world of dayanim and batei din. And yes, he is a big talmid chochme, but most rosh yeshivas (which he also claims to be of Kol Yaakov Yeshiva) are not involved in shimush lema'aseh and they are not dayanim. You do not go to a rosh yeshiva if you want to get divorced or are looking for a geirus. Rosh yeshivas are generally never poskim except for what goes on inside their yeshivas, and unlike a kiruv worker who can and MUST walk all over the range looking for people to mekarev, a dayan on the other hand, MUST contain himself and restrict himself to a very narrow venue, the Bais Din and its confines where he sits in judgment of cases and of others.

In short, how to reconcile Kiruv ("drawing people close") and Richuk ("distancing" people)? How to reconcile the need to be a sweet Kiruv Worker (who must always be winning JEWISH friends and influencing people to eventually become/morph into being Haredi/Yeshivish) and on the other hand with a conflicting task, the enforcing the rules and dictates of Batei Din in regard to conversions that requires, per force, the distancing and pushing away of people, certianly gentiles and if need be even the Jews attached to those gentiles.

Quite a Faustian predicament that Rabbi Tropper does not seem to have resolved for himself. While the Reform and Conservatives "have sold their soul to the devil" and are accepting gentiles to easily into the Jewish people ch"sh r"l and many in the Modern Orthodox and Religious Zionist movements are teetering on the edge of a slippery slope and look like they have thrown in the towel as they water down the halacha and make appearing before a Bais Din a mere formailty and an exercise in rubber-stamping by the Bais Din that has no standards, there are those poskim, dayanim and batei din alive TODAY like in the BADATZ/Rabbi Shternbuch/Rabbi Sherman/Rav Eliashiv/Rav Nochum Eisenstein & Beit Din Le'Inyanei Giur who INSIST on strict/er Halachic standards and are willing to oppose and fight against the tide of de facto and de jure assimilationism and intermarriage and not join it in any way shape size or form (while seemingly Rabbi Tropper THINKS and alleges he is speaking for them, but his actions at EJF over the years say otherwise).

So what Rabbi Tropper did or not do at the time that led to Rabbi Slifkin's books being banned in the frum world are essentially immaterial. For sometimes to catch a ganef one must act like a ganef, and ultimately the Torah world is better off without giving legitimacy to the pseudo-scientific makeover of midrashim, agadettes and Chazals by neophytes.

Indeed Rebbetzin Bruria Hutner David, principal of BJJ and the holder of a doctorate from Colombia University, see the full thesis at http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~spotter/david-chajes.pdf "THE DUAL ROLE OF RABBI ZVI HIRSCH CHAJES: TRADITIONALIST AND MASKIL." (Columbia University, Ph.D., 1971) shredded no less than the Maharitz Chiyas in her lengthy PhD thesis debunking as "Haskala" his non-traditional and anti-chazal views and interpretetions of agadattes. So if she could do that, what Rabbi Tropper did to Slifkin (minus a PhD) is peanuts, although his mthods were very devious and deceitful, but often that is how people are made frum, with all sorts of "tricks" -- sad to say but very true, and one hopes that the "victims" stay frum or all else all hell can break loose...

So Rabbi Tropper's past involvements with Slifkin and Gidon Busch and the Age of the Earth questions are really not so much the REAL issues as are his PRESENT state of conflict and lack of clarity about whether he wishes to be perceived as the biggest kiruv worker of the times or as the biggest enforcer of Halacha of Geirus in modern times and unfortunately HE CANNOT BE BOTH simultaneously and he cannot have it both ways. He cannot have his cake and eat it this time! And he and Dr. Tom Kaplan are having a hard time realizing this reality! Especially Dr. Kaplan who as a tycoon businessman is not used to seeing his EJF "business plan" go awry and shouted down from the left and right of the Orthodox and Haredi world. It is too much of an ego-deflator and both Rabbi Tropper and Dr. Kaplan take their egos VERY seriously.

Anyhow, there is not "one single way" to do kiruv and Rabbi Tropper has had many successes in this regard that he does not need to apologize to anyone for his kiruv work and successes, and with success there will come some failures which he is allowed to have as well. But his role as the Inquistor in chief of dayanim and batei din in the field of geirus brings out his darker side and now he is being told where to get off, and he even shows himself the door, knowing that it's bed time and curtains for bonzo the self-proclaimed EJF ubber geirus dayan who is lema'aleh mikol hadayanim since we already have one rashkebehag in the form of Rav Eliashiv shlit'a who does not need Rabbi Tropper and Dr. Tom Kaplan and their acorn-aspiring EJF a la Obama style politicking and steam-rollering and saying different things to different audiences and hoping noone either notices or dares to speak up.

The real issue is the dichotomy in Rabbi Tropper's inner psyche that he has not and cannot bridge: How to be a famous and successful kiruv worker and at the same time be an enforcer of strict bais din standards for geirus functioning as some sort of ubber dayan deciding which batei din and dayanim are strict enough, when he himself as a 100% kiruv worker does not in essence think and function in those terms. For heaven's sakes, he is married to a baalas teshuva, and he belongs in the Baal teshuva movement and must learn to leave issues of geirus to the batei din and dayanim to muddle through and sort out and not be so condescending and paternalistic towards them. "Let go, and let G-d"!
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Plony Almony 18: I think the comment about Gideon Busch Z’L is more appropriate to be on your post regarding various keiruv approaches but I can understand why the commenter chose to put it here.

RaP: This tragic chapter should not be dragged into the discussions here because no one knows the true facts of the true state of Busch's mind and personality. Seems he was not an emotionally healthy person and every kiruv organization, indeed every college and high school has its share of horror stories and suicides, and Busch basically frazzled the cops to fire on him. NY cops are sometimes over-cautious and ready to fire and do not take chances and they cannot be blamed so quickly for what happened and neither should Rabbi Tropper be dragged into this tragic matter. It's like asking that Busch's relatives, pediatrician and pyschiatrist also be liable for not taking good enough care of him.

Plony Almony 18: She probably wanted to call attention to Tropper all-or-nothing approach to keiruv, an approach which requires total transformation, cutting off any non-orthodox connections (which includes family), shunning secular studies and arguing that you cannot be a talmid chochom and having a college degree in the some time...

RaP: So again, no need to drag the Busch saga into this. Rabbi Tropper is not unique in this regard because there are many rabbis and some institutions all over the world who do what he does. Rabbi Tropper's success stories in kiruv are far, far greater than the few failures and EVERY kiruv rabbi has many, many people who he did not make frum and went off... It is an occupational hazard.

Plony Almony 18: An approach which in cases of married couples when the couple is not on the same page, the more observant spouse is encouraged to divorce the less observant spouse instead of finding some middle ground and waiting for him or her to catch up.

RaP: This is a very touchy area and again there is no consensus and each case has to be evaluated and judged on its merits. Not just among BTs but among the frum and in the world at large every day rabbis and therapsist bring couples apart and also split them up. That is the reality. And it's no different in kiruv situations which usually involve a whole range of issues that have nothing to do with religion. This is a very complex area of life that requires great expertise and can be easily abused even by the greatest professionals, so don't blame Rabbi Tropper for another occupational hzard of being a susccessful kiruv rabbi who is forced into couples counseling.

Plony Almony 18: Many keiruv organizations (which the noted exception of Chabad) do not realize that for some people adopting stringent lifestyle, dropping out of college, adopting penguin dress would not be beneficial. Making them swallow more than they can chew would end up with disastrous results.

RaP: Why do you exempt Chabad? That shows you do not know what is happening. Chabad is a huge enterprise. The policies and methods they use in Crown Heights are not the same as in Beverly Hills. Chabad in Kefar Chabad and in Tzefas is more extreme in all areas is anything you will see in many other places. So yes, while over-all Chabad is more patient, once they feel they have won over someone they do exactly what people like Rabbi Tropper does, don't fool yourself and do not create false impressions. There is no "one way' to make people frum nor is there "one way" for how BTs should be frum. There never has been nor will there ever be. It is as varied as the human condition. And as the saying goes there will always be a need and a market for: "Different strokes for different folks"!