Orchos Chaim (Hilchos Kesuba) And a Talmid chachom needs an adorned woman (Shabbos 25b). The reason he needs her is so that he won’t desire another woman because he has greater lust than other men as our Sages (Sukkah 52a) said whoever is greater than others has greater lust than they because the yetzer harah threatens to overwhelm him everyday. It would seem from this that it is prohibited for a talmid chachom to allow his wife to be unattractive ever – even if she is in mourning. This is so he isn’t repelled by her because he might become overwhelmed with lust for another woman, While this is a problem all men have but since a talmid chachom has greater lust it is particularly said about him.
Ohr HaChaim (Bereishis 29:18) And Yakov loved Rachel Not because of her beauty but because they were a predestined couple or alternatively as our Sages (Shabbos 25b) say that a talmid chachom should have a beautiful wife to protect against lust. So even though Yakov was a very spiritual man who defeated his lust nevertheless the Torah teaches a person to have common sense
So the prohibition of using the Torah as a shovel... Conveniently gets thrown out of the window.
ReplyDeleteSure, a $1000000 check will also help defeat the yetser hara.
Why do talmidei chachamim have greater lust? Perhaps they are not talmidei chachamim.
סבא תנא ליה כל הגדול מחבירו יצרו גדול הימנו
ReplyDeleteNo classical commentary on this gemara.
Also, nameless elder, is it authoritative?
Bar Ilan found 242 comments
ReplyDeletetime to ditch Sefaria
ReplyDeleteThe Yetzer Hara is a clever angel, and it’s more significant to him to cause a Gadol to sin, rather than merely causing an ordinary person to sin, since there’s a bigger “payoff”. Hence the Yezter Hara exerts greater effort on the Gadol.
ReplyDeleteIf a person claims that they don’t feel the Yetzer Hara too much, either they’re lying; or it’s because they’re so enmeshed in sin, that they don’t even realize what a stranglehold the Yetzer Hara has on them; or it’s a sign that the Yetzer has little interest in making him sin, since they’re such an insignificant person.
The Gadol? There are many talmidei hachamim, but very few Gedolim.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that you view regular people as apes who can mimic Talmidei hachamim.
However, there are some valid points , or at least implications to what you say.
How do you know how the yetzer hara works?
One of the the problems is that Talmidei chachamim , on the one hand add 1000 restrictions in every walk of life for the Am, and on the other hand they find all kinds of self-serving exit clauses for themselves, to indulge in what is forbidden. becasue they are special, and above the ape-haaretz monkeys who can talk and imitate humans, but are no better than animals.
I was paraphrasing the relevant words of the Talmud
ReplyDeleteSukka 52a:
כל הגדול מחברו יצרו גדול הימנו
In this context, "Gadol" is relative to every other person, who is of less stature than them.
I'd think this would be a practical idea. An attractive wife begets attractive daughters who are able to attract bright talmidei chachamim as sons-in-law,
ReplyDeleteI am still not convinced by this adage כל הגדול מחברו יצרו גדול הימנו
ReplyDeleteI have never seen a rational explanation over many years of discussing it.
כל הגדול מחברו יצרו גדול הימנו
ReplyDeleteHere is a psychological explanation -
the statement is an observation, without givnig reasons.
Perhaps it is a matter of self-selection :
Peopel with narcissistic tendencies may have a greater need for power, aggrandizement, and control over others - hence they are more likley to become leaders, Rabbis, doctors etc. So there may be a higher percentage of such people in certain fields - narcissism is no bar to academic intelligence. Some were completely out of bounds, eg Yashka, Bar Kochba, Shabbetai zvi, Berland etc. But many others may remain within the fold, whether part of an honest struggle or a cynical plot.
In context, the Talmud was referring to a person being tempted in sexual matters, and considers it axiomatic that the greater a person is, the greater the Yetzer Hara will try to tempt them to sin.
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2020/12/greater-person-greater-his-lust.html
ReplyDeleteTried to comment before, but it's not showing up. This seems to contradict the prior source you cited from Bava Basra. There seem to be 2 strains within chazal: A naive view of the talmud chacham, and a realistic view of the talmud chacham. If it was true that the Talmud chacham "doesn't look at women," as in bava basra, that would include his wife, so how would her being attractive impact his desire for her?
ReplyDeleteAnd regarding other women, if he doesn't look at them, how would his wife looking unattractive cause him to be overwhelmed with lust for another woman - a woman he isn't even looking at?
As for "greater lust" than others, I'm not sure I see the logic there. Can anyone explain this? Why would a "greater person" have a more threatening yetzer hara?